---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/13/08: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:22 AM - Ultrastar drive belt (Dana Hague) 2. 10:43 AM - Re: Ultrastar drive belt (robert bean) 3. 11:40 AM - Re: Ultrastar drive belt (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 4. 01:22 PM - Re: Ultrastar drive belt (herb) 5. 01:37 PM - Re: Ultrastar drive belt (Dana Hague) 6. 01:42 PM - Re: Ultrastar drive belt (Dana Hague) 7. 02:17 PM - Re: Ultrastar drive belt (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 8. 03:24 PM - Re: Firestar project (GeoR38@aol.com) 9. 04:22 PM - Firestar Project (william sullivan) 10. 05:13 PM - Re: Firestar Project (Dana Hague) 11. 05:50 PM - Re: Check out http://www.avweb.com/newspics/sun-n-fun-2008_galle (Don G) 12. 06:03 PM - Congrats FloatFly GrandChampion!!! (Don G) 13. 06:03 PM - Firestar Project (william sullivan) 14. 06:23 PM - Re: Firestar Project (Dana Hague) 15. 07:39 PM - Re: Congrats FloatFly GrandChampion!!! (beauford T) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:28 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt The drive belts on my Cuyuna powered Ultrastar are a pair of 280J10 poly-v belts. These are no problem to obtain, of course, but using a pair of belts like that isn't always the greatest idea unless they're exactly matched, preferably from the same production lot. It occurs to me that a single 280J20 belt (same belt, twice as wide) might be a better choice... it's harder to find but it IS available. The original US manual refers to two belts, though... I wonder why? Could it be just availability? Or some other reason? There's no real difference; the belts are manufactured very wide and slit to the required width. A 220J20 belt is $23, while 220J10's are $19 each... though I have an open account with McMaster, who stocks the 10's but not the 20's... -Dana -- +REAL+ programmers use EDLIN to create Windows apps ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:13 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt In industrial usage (back when I worked for a living) I found that cog or notch style belts were more efficient and outlasted plain Vs. Would something like this be available for your application? BB On 13, Apr 2008, at 1:16 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > > The drive belts on my Cuyuna powered Ultrastar are a pair of 280J10 > poly-v belts. These are no problem to obtain, of course, but using > a pair of belts like that isn't always the greatest idea unless > they're exactly matched, preferably from the same production lot. > It occurs to me that a single 280J20 belt (same belt, twice as > wide) might be a better choice... it's harder to find but it IS > available. The original US manual refers to two belts, though... > I wonder why? Could it be just availability? Or some other > reason? There's no real difference; the belts are manufactured > very wide and slit to the required width. > > A 220J20 belt is $23, while 220J10's are $19 each... though I have > an open account with McMaster, who stocks the 10's but not the 20's... > > -Dana > -- > +REAL+ programmers use EDLIN to create Windows apps > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:20 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt I talked to Homer Kolb last summer about my VW belt drive. He told me he had a tool that measured belts. He had to pair up the belts from a shipment of belts to make sure that the belts were the same size. When I changed from cog belts to the serpentine belts I currently use there was some loss of power but the serpentine belts don't transmit the nasty harmonics the way cog belts do. Well worth the trade off. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt > > In industrial usage (back when I worked for a living) I found that cog or > notch style belts > were more efficient and outlasted plain Vs. Would something like this be > available for your > application? > BB > On 13, Apr 2008, at 1:16 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > >> >> The drive belts on my Cuyuna powered Ultrastar are a pair of 280J10 >> poly-v belts. These are no problem to obtain, of course, but using a >> pair of belts like that isn't always the greatest idea unless they're >> exactly matched, preferably from the same production lot. It occurs to >> me that a single 280J20 belt (same belt, twice as wide) might be a >> better choice... it's harder to find but it IS available. The original >> US manual refers to two belts, though... I wonder why? Could it be >> just availability? Or some other reason? There's no real difference; >> the belts are manufactured very wide and slit to the required width. >> >> A 220J20 belt is $23, while 220J10's are $19 each... though I have an >> open account with McMaster, who stocks the 10's but not the 20's... >> >> -Dana >> -- >> +REAL+ programmers use EDLIN to create Windows apps >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:14 PM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt Rick At the flyin...did you say that your plane would fly on one belt? Have you replaced the belts and how much do they cost? Herb At 01:37 PM 4/13/2008, you wrote: > > >I talked to Homer Kolb last summer about my VW belt drive. He told >me he had a tool that measured belts. He had to pair up the belts >from a shipment of belts to make sure that the belts were the same size. > >When I changed from cog belts to the serpentine belts I currently >use there was some loss of power but the serpentine belts don't >transmit the nasty harmonics the way cog belts do. Well worth the trade off. > >Rick Neilsen >Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > >----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" >To: >Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:40 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt > > >> >>In industrial usage (back when I worked for a living) I found >>that cog or notch style belts >>were more efficient and outlasted plain Vs. Would something like >>this be available for your >>application? >>BB >>On 13, Apr 2008, at 1:16 PM, Dana Hague wrote: >> >>> >>>The drive belts on my Cuyuna powered Ultrastar are a pair of >>>280J10 poly-v belts. These are no problem to obtain, of course, >>>but using a pair of belts like that isn't always the greatest >>>idea unless they're exactly matched, preferably from the same >>>production lot. It occurs to me that a single 280J20 belt (same >>>belt, twice as wide) might be a better choice... it's harder to >>>find but it IS available. The original US manual refers to two >>>belts, though... I wonder why? Could it be just >>>availability? Or some other reason? There's no real difference; >>>the belts are manufactured very wide and slit to the required width. >>> >>>A 220J20 belt is $23, while 220J10's are $19 each... though I >>>have an open account with McMaster, who stocks the 10's but not the 20's... >>> >>>-Dana >>>-- >>> +REAL+ programmers use EDLIN to create Windows apps >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:06 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt At 01:40 PM 4/13/2008, robert bean wrote: >In industrial usage (back when I worked for a living) I found that >cog or notch style belts >were more efficient and outlasted plain Vs. Would something like this >be available for your >application? Mine's the poly-v, sometimes called a serpentine belt (though "serpentine" correctly refers to how a long belt is routed on a car, not the belt type itself). Any other type of belt would require different pulleys. -Dana -- Lie ? Me ? Never! No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:22 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt At 02:37 PM 4/13/2008, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: >I talked to Homer Kolb last summer about my VW belt drive. He told me he >had a tool that measured belts. He had to pair up the belts from a >shipment of belts to make sure that the belts were the same size. > >When I changed from cog belts to the serpentine belts I currently use >there was some loss of power but the serpentine belts don't transmit the >nasty harmonics the way cog belts do. Well worth the trade off. If by cog belts you mean timing belts (synchronous belts), then yes you can get vibrations. Same thing with a gear drive, which is why a gear drive often has some kind of slip clutch or harmonic dampener. A friction belt (either a classic V-belt or a poly-v flat belt) lets it slip a bit, dampening out the power pulses. Of course too much slip and the belt wears prematurely. One other advantage of the poly-v belt is that unlike a timing belt, it rarely fails suddenly... ribs start to disappear and it's quite obvious during preflight, but it will still transmit power. When a timing belt goes, a bunch of teeth come off and you better have a landing spot handy. -Dana -- Lie ? Me ? Never! No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:21 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt Herb Yes. That's what they say. I have never tried just one belt and don't plan on it. They sent me used belts so that I would be able to fly to Oshkosh last summer with out having to play with run in adjustments. I have put only 47 hours on them since then. I don't have a clue of the cost. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "herb" Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt > > Rick > > At the flyin...did you say that your plane would fly on one belt? Have > you replaced the belts and how much do they cost? Herb > > > At 01:37 PM 4/13/2008, you wrote: >> >> >>I talked to Homer Kolb last summer about my VW belt drive. He told me he >>had a tool that measured belts. He had to pair up the belts from a >>shipment of belts to make sure that the belts were the same size. >> >>When I changed from cog belts to the serpentine belts I currently use >>there was some loss of power but the serpentine belts don't transmit the >>nasty harmonics the way cog belts do. Well worth the trade off. >> >>Rick Neilsen >>Redrive VW powered MKIIIC >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:40 PM >>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar drive belt >> >> >>> >>>In industrial usage (back when I worked for a living) I found that cog >>>or notch style belts >>>were more efficient and outlasted plain Vs. Would something like this be >>>available for your >>>application? >>>BB >>>On 13, Apr 2008, at 1:16 PM, Dana Hague wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>The drive belts on my Cuyuna powered Ultrastar are a pair of 280J10 >>>>poly-v belts. These are no problem to obtain, of course, but using a >>>>pair of belts like that isn't always the greatest idea unless they're >>>>exactly matched, preferably from the same production lot. It occurs to >>>>me that a single 280J20 belt (same belt, twice as wide) might be a >>>>better choice... it's harder to find but it IS available. The original >>>>US manual refers to two belts, though... I wonder why? Could it be >>>>just availability? Or some other reason? There's no real difference; >>>>the belts are manufactured very wide and slit to the required width. >>>> >>>>A 220J20 belt is $23, while 220J10's are $19 each... though I have an >>>>open account with McMaster, who stocks the 10's but not the 20's... >>>> >>>>-Dana >>>>-- >>>> +REAL+ programmers use EDLIN to create Windows apps >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:21 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar project In a message dated 4/12/2008 11:23:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, williamtsullivan@att.net writes: I found a Firefly length of 19' 6" on Jack Hart's website. My Firestar is 19' even. Anybody have the length on a Firestar l or Kx? Comments? Bill Sullivan FS/KX/447 Windsor Locks, Ct. The Firestar length on my 1985 copywrite KX and KXP overview drawings is: Overall length from nosecone tip to back of rudder: 20' 3" Wingspan is 27' 8" George Randolph Firestar KX driver, 447 Rotax, points The Villages, Fl **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:19 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar Project Curiouser and curiouser. Thanks, George. I would love to know this history on mine. The closer I look, the stranger it gets. I have the Ducati ignition, and I do have a serial number on the engine. It does look original, but who knows. Once I get it to the airport maybe somebody will know more. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX?/447 Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:06 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar Project At 07:19 PM 4/13/2008, william sullivan wrote: >Curiouser and curiouser. Thanks, George. I would love to know this history >on mine. The closer I look, the stranger it gets... Nothing you can track back through the previous owner(s)? -Dana do not archive -- A seminar on Time Travel will be held two weeks ago. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:19 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Check out http://www.avweb.com/newspics/sun-n-fun-2008_galle From: "Don G" Hey....its Steves FloatFly!!!!!! -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176632#176632 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:06 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Congrats FloatFly GrandChampion!!! From: "Don G" Hey..I just checked out the Sun-n-Fun Newsletter at the website..And I wanna Congratulate our own brother Steve B, and Brian M for their Grandchampion Win on the FloatFly!...way to go men! -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176634#176634 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:06 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar Project Dana- I asked about the source, but the guy I bought it from had shared ownership with somebody else. When I asked him, he said the other guy might know and I didn't follow through. I think I'll e-mail him. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX/447 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:34 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar Project At 08:59 PM 4/13/2008, william sullivan wrote: > Dana- I asked about the source, but the guy I bought it from had shared > ownership with somebody else. When I asked him, he said the other guy > might know and I didn't follow through. I think I'll e-mail him. Hope you have better luck than I had. Actually I know three owners back for my plane, but the first guy I know (who bought it sometime in the early 90's) doesn't remember the original owner's name, only that he "was an old guy" and probably dead now. Of course mine is mostly stock so there aren't many questions. Of the three owners I know, only one ever flew it (and he only flew it a couple of times), though some of their friends flew it occasionally. -Dana do not archive -- Nowadays only a lawyer can tell legal from illegal, and the lawyers don't know the difference between right and wrong. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:29 PM PST US From: "beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Congrats FloatFly GrandChampion!!! AMEN, Don...! That airplane is a work of art...! We looked at it and marveled over every inch of it...finished like a Rolex watch... Two master craftsmen doing their thing... All Kolbers can indeed be proud of what Steve and Brian accomplished... Tonight the bacon is where it belongs...! Beauford FF076 Brandon, FL do not archive Hey..I just checked out the Sun-n-Fun Newsletter at the website..And I wanna Congratulate our own brother Steve B, and Brian M for their Grandchampion Win on the FloatFly!...way to go men! -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176634#176634 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.