---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/23/08: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:18 AM - Re: Sadler Vampire (icrashrc) 2. 06:02 AM - Re: Dead Stick Video (Ralph B) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (George Alexander) 4. 07:24 AM - Re: Dead Stick Video (grantr) 5. 07:30 AM - Shipping a BRS??? (grantr) 6. 07:40 AM - Introduction, and dual time in NC or CO? (Luke) 7. 08:47 AM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (N27SB@aol.com) 8. 09:09 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (John Williamson) 9. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 10. 09:35 AM - Wing design and other stuff (Mike Welch) 11. 09:36 AM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (Mike Welch) 12. 10:31 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (John Williamson) 13. 10:35 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (John Williamson) 14. 10:38 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (John Williamson) 15. 11:04 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (WillUribe@aol.com) 16. 11:11 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (WillUribe@aol.com) 17. 11:19 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (John Williamson) 18. 11:57 AM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (N27SB@aol.com) 19. 12:24 PM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (N27SB@aol.com) 20. 12:27 PM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (N27SB@aol.com) 21. 12:34 PM - Serial Number (Jack B. Hart) 22. 12:40 PM - Re: expert in everything (cristalclear13) 23. 12:49 PM - Re: Serial Number (N27SB@aol.com) 24. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (Russ Kinne) 25. 02:26 PM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (WillUribe@aol.com) 26. 02:37 PM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (chris davis) 27. 04:14 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 28. 04:22 PM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (Mike Welch) 29. 04:32 PM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (WillUribe@aol.com) 30. 05:16 PM - Sun N Fun 2008 (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 31. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (Ed Chmielewski) 32. 06:19 PM - Re: Serial Number (Jack B. Hart) 33. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (Dana Hague) 34. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (Dana Hague) 35. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Serial Number (TK) 36. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (Larry Cottrell) 37. 07:27 PM - Re: Sun N Fun 2008 (Flycrazy8@aol.com) 38. 07:35 PM - Re: Sun N Fun 2008 (N27SB@aol.com) 39. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (TK) 40. 08:00 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (boyd) 41. 08:13 PM - Re: Shipping a BRS??? (Flycrazy8@aol.com) 42. 08:28 PM - Re: Dead Stick Video (N111KX (Kip)) 43. 09:12 PM - Re: Wing design and other stuff (JetPilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sadler Vampire From: "icrashrc" I think the Vampire had a Rotomax 2 rotor Wankel in it. 110 or 120 horsepower @ WOT. It was certainly not an airframe i would have taken to an airport, let alone S-n-F. -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178622#178622 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:08 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick Video From: "Ralph B" Excellent Kip! do not archive Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 21 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 0 years flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178634#178634 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:11 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest From: "George Alexander" NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > I have a video of that very thing. > > > > Do Not Archive > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > > --- On Google Video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1486764191680773505 Rick was moving so fast, it's a little difficult to pick him out. DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- George Alexander FS II R503 http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178636#178636 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:58 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick Video From: "grantr" That gyro is for sale. I saw him fly it last year at a flyin . It was very impressive. http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16662 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178653#178653 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? From: "grantr" I see a few BRSs that I am interested in however no one will ship them and they are too far away from me to get. How can a used BRS be shipped? If I order a new one I am sure it will shipped to me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178654#178654 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Introduction, and dual time in NC or CO? From: "Luke" Howdy all! long time lurker/newbie around here. Just wanted to give you all a little background on myself. When I was in junior/senior high school I was actively involved in my local Civil Air Patrol and was able to earn my solo license in a Cessna 172P. Tried to continue on for my private pilots license but the cost of training on a 17 year old's budget just didn't cut it! I joined the Army when I was 19 and have been deployed to Iraq, and am currently finishing up a 15 month deployment in Afghanistan. I'll be getting out of the Army this summer, and will hopefully be starting gunsmithing school in the spring of 2009. Flying has been a long time interest of mine and I would love to get back into it! I've extensively researched all types of ultralights, LSA, etc. and I've pretty much come to the decision that if I do start flying again it's going to be in a Kolb. I currently can not afford to buy one, so that brings me to my question. I'm looking to see if there is anyone located in/near North Carolina, or Colorado, that could give me a little test flight or some dual time? It's been about 6 years since I did any flying so I'd really enjoy to get my feet wet again and actually see a Kolb up close and personal - I've been drooling over pictures for a long time :) I really enjoy reading all the information you all have to offer on this forum. Thanks! -------- "The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178655#178655 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:33 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Grant, the parachute assembly can be shipped any way you like, but the rocket motor has to be shipped by a facility that is permitted to ship explosives. You might consider buying a BRS at a good price and have them ship just the chute. Then buy a new rocket assy. from BRS. That would make sense especially if the rocket is out of date. steve In a message dated 4/23/2008 10:30:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "grantr" I see a few BRSs that I am interested in however no one will ship them and they are too far away from me to get. How can a used BRS be shipped? If I order a new one I am sure it will shipped to me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178654#178654 **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:56 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest From: "John Williamson" We say that our event is "Unplanned and Unorganized" but have never said is is without some kind of excitement. It is scarier to watch the video than it was to watch it in person. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1486764191680773505 Back to the Contest: -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1595 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178668#178668 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj7_img_0786_107.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj1_100_0378_142.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj6_100_3395_182.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj8_img_0799_346.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:52 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest John W It depends on your point of view.... Do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Williamson" Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:07 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest > > > We say that our event is "Unplanned and Unorganized" but have never said > is is without some kind of excitement. > > It is scarier to watch the video than it was to watch it in person. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:11 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Wing design and other stuff Kolb guys, Hey, did I mention I am making MY OWN fiberglass wing tips? I liked the progress report John H had shared with us, on the MkIII Xtra's flight data. It appears that by adding droop tips, the Xtra's stall speed dropped by about 4 mph. To 26 mph!!! Plus, he felt like he had better control authority of the ailerons at slower airspeeds. First of all, it was NOT my preference to make them. I checked with Donnie at TNK, and he said their's may not be be ready to sell for 6+ weeks (maybe more, who knows?). I can't wait. I need them now. I am ready to begin covering my wings, and prefer not to wait. Some background and reasons why they are a good idea: If you take a look at the outer three feet of most MkIII wings (without tips), it seems fairly obvious why this would be an area of concern. Several airflow issues come to mind. I'll explain... First, and most obvious, air will travel the path of least resistance. Duh. Right? So, as air is traveling rearward during flight under the wing, rather than continue inline with all the other compressed air, the air near the tip will prefer to "spill" off. The idea seems kind of intuitive, IMO. If you think about it, as you force a canted airfoil into the wind, air is being compressed as it piles up against the lower surface. Plus, the further rearward you go, the more the compression, due to a combination of accumulated air, from the front....increasing all the way to the back (see lower drawing). In other words, in the front, you have "front" air. In the middle, you have "front and middle" air. At the rear, you have "front, middle, and rear air"....all trying to get past the airfoil (see drawing below to see what I'm getting at). Clearly, some of the air near the outer edge will prefer to "jump ship", and divert out to the undisturbed air beyond the wing. Secondly, the top of the wing has that "rounded off" shape. It, too, appears that as air is trying to go over the top of the wing's outer two feet, there is some preference for the air to "fall" off the bump, away from the wing. By it's design, there is a perpendicular (a sideways) vector component to passing air. It also seems intuitive that if you watched the air (smoke) pass over the outer portion of the wing, some will spill off the top toward the direction away from the wing. And then there's the 1" leading edge tube. This is a fairly large tube to be ramming through the air. It has a large curve that connects the leading edge to the wing's outer side edge. By it's shape, this leading edge "curve" is pushing air away from the wing. How much? Don't know. But, it darn sure is "some". Keep in mind all this diminished airflow is going on near the outer tip. This the place where you DON'T want it to happen!!! You would prefer to keep ALL the air that goes under the wing to remain under the wing, until it passes beyond the aileron. My ailerons are just under 6 feet long. My outer wing panel is just OVER 3 feet wide!! This tells me that over half of my aileron is less efficient than it could be. At the place you want the most air, for aileron control, you are losing some. Undoubedly, this is why some fliers claim their ailerons are "sloppy" at slower airspeeds. Of course, slower air will give less control, but it doesn't help to be giving up some control authority to "losing air". For those of you high on your math skills, you do recall that air's effect (and drag) is determined by it's airspeed. Specifically, by it's square of the velocity. In other words, a wing travelling at 40 mph will have a certain performance level (and, or drag). That same wing will have 1/4th of it's performance at 20!! Or, said another way, as you double the airspeed, you quadruple it's effect, or...as you cut in half your airspeed, you reduce your control to only 25%. This is huge!!! When you couple this concept with the fact you are "giving up" some of your air, due to the wing's design, well, that is not good!! By the way, this math formula applies to MANY MANY other aspect of life, including impacts. An airplane that crashes at 50 mph will have 4 times that impact an airplane at 25 mph has!! If you don't think that is a big deal, try crashing at 25 mph in a plane. I did. As bad as I hurt, there is NO way I would have lived if the impact was 4 times as great. Back to the droop wing tips. By designing a wing tip that is able to keep all this air under the wing, and not produce any negative drag concerns, you can improve the aileron's slow airspeed performance. In essence, all you are doing is placing an aerodynamic "dam" at the wing tip's outer edge. Of course, only a wind-tunnel will show you how effective your particular design is, but for the most part, a basic droop tip should be a huge improvement. Considering the results posted by John H. regarding the new Kolb company's Xtra, I would say that was "huge". Stall speed reduced from 30 mph to 26 mph. That's well over 10% slower stall speed, and that means safety. For any questions, pictures, etc, contact me directly. I am almost finished making the "plugs". (These are my sculpted shapes, once they are finished I will make molds from them). I ordered all the fiberglassing products that I don't have on hand yesterday. Things like wax, gel coat, etc.) BTW, all this wing tip modification required taking off the existing "stock" shape wing tip, and building a special end rib. I now have 13' 7" of straight airfoil, per side, and then the droop tips begin. How did I handle the fact that the 6" tube spar ended at out 30" short?? I built a chromoly truss. Not very heavy and gawd-aweful strong!!! It looks a lot like the tube reinforcements we slid into the spars and boom tubes. Phenominally strong!!! (Plus, of course, all the usual aluminum tubes for triangulation.......) I know this modification isn't for everyone, but I, for one, like the performance, the looks, and the added styling droop tips add. Besides, they purdy! I have kept a fairly detailed photo log of the process. I'm not finished, yet, so if anyone wants any additional information, I will wait until I'm finished before send out stuff, drawings, photos, etc. BTW, I talked to a guy yesterday that makes all the products you'd ever need for fiberglassing work. He has a auction site site on eBay ,just for showing his countless "how to" videos. You want to see tons and tons of demonstration videos on fiberglassing products, check out eBay item #280178620496. Awesome site!!!! Plus, there is a link to photobucket you should look for. This is another place where he has over a hundred displays of his products in action. Worth checking out, if you're interested in your own fiberglassing projects. Next......my custom dash panel that mounts at the lower line along the windscreen, then my overhead panel like Scott built. I already had one of these in aluminum for the Classic, but it doesn't fit, anymore. Next one will be fiberglass like Scotts. Gotta get to work on those droop tips. They ainta gettin' done without me. Mike Welch MkIII CX PS. My droop tip molds are SUPPOSED to be reuseable. We'll see. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:50 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Steve, I doubt very seriously if BRS would sell Grant just the rocket motor portion of their system. They might, but I doubt it. If they did, I would probably buy just the motor. I have the chute, already, but I didn't get it from them, and it isn't a BRS chute brand. Mike Welch ________________________________ From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Grant, the parachute assembly can be shipped any way you like, but the rocket motor has to be shipped by a facility that is permitted to ship explosives. You might consider buying a BRS at a good price and have them ship just the chute. Then buy a new rocket assy. from BRS. That would make sense especially if the rocket is out of date. steve In a message dated 4/23/2008 10:30:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes: I see a few BRSs that I am interested in however no one will ship them and they are too far away from me to get. How can a used BRS be shipped? If I order a new one I am sure it will shipped to me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178654#178654 ________________________________ Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. _________________________________________________________________ Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:45 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest From: "John Williamson" Some airplane photos: -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1595 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178688#178688 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_0398_161.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/101_0022_947.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0760_514.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0782_148.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0800_621.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0801_201.jpg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:23 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest From: "John Williamson" Some more Scenery photos: -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1595 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178691#178691 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_3399_435.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0756_125.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest From: "John Williamson" Some Kolber photos: -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1595 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178692#178692 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_3381_118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvsunmorn_007_855.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:43 AM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest Pictures take by Dave Rains of my FireStar flying over MV **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:06 AM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest Pictures I took flying over MV in my FireStar **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest From: "John Williamson" Hey Will: "Pictures take by Dave Rains of my FireStar flying over MV " They look like they are great photos, but can you repost them at least 600 pixels wide or larger. -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1595 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178704#178704 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:20 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Hi Mike, That is what they did for Flycrazy8 (Stephen Baxley) when he purchased an older BRS from me. The BRS had a recent repack but the rocket was out of date. We test fired the old rocket at TNK Homecoming 2005. On the Older rocket packs the fuel cannot be removed and replaced so they will sell a new motor and canister. I would call them and give them the model and S/N. Steve FF#007/Floats FF#040/Floats 2008 Sun n Fun UL Grand Champion In a message dated 4/23/2008 12:37:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com writes: Steve, I doubt very seriously if BRS would sell Grant just the rocket motor portion of their system. They might, but I doubt it. If they did, I would probably buy just the motor. I have the chute, already, but I didn't get it from them, and it isn't a BRS chute brand. Mike Welch **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:25 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Sorry Mike, just read the end of your post, they probably would not sell one for another brand chute. A BRS is one component I would not get cheap over. In a message dated 4/23/2008 2:58:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N27SB@aol.com writes: If they did, I would probably buy just the motor. I have the chute, already, but I didn't get it from them, and it isn't a BRS chute brand. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:13 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Sorry Mike I just re read your post, they may not sell you one. A BRS is one component I would not get cheap on. "When building your aircraft your best work will barely be good enough" Burt Rutan Steve FF#007/Floats FF#040/Floats 2008 Sun n Fun UL Grand Champion In a message dated 4/23/2008 2:58:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, N27SB@aol.com writes: If they did, I would probably buy just the motor. I have the chute, already, but I didn't get it from them, and it isn't a BRS chute brand. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:55 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: Serial Number From: N27SB@aol.com ............... Steve FF#007/Floats FF#040/Floats 2008 Sun n Fun UL Grand Champion ..................... Steve, Am I missing something? I would have thought there were more than 40 FireFlys flying. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:04 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: expert in everything From: "cristalclear13" Ray, Hopefully your backpack chute instructions are better than the one in this video (check out about 3 1/2 minutes into the video) and you'll see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv55-m1KHAo [Laughing] -------- Cristal Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178724#178724 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:18 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Serial Number Hi Jack, (gotta be careful where you when you say that) It is #40 from TNK. You have to add up all of Old Kolbs then add about 30 on top of this one. steve In a message dated 4/23/2008 3:35:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jbhart@onlyinternet.net writes: Steve, Am I missing something? I would have thought there were more than 40 FireFlys flying. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:05 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest I always flight=planned with a highway map -- they put the roads thru the lowest pass they can find. Don't recall any problems in 6 trips thru the Rockies -- but went to 13K over Crater Lake once; great experience! On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:02 PM, Steven Green wrote: > Robert, > > There was some mild turbulence and at the moment I snapped the > picture I was descending but that was just for a moment. I had no > trouble getting across. > > Steven > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Laird > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest > > Yeow! Sandia Peak is 10,678 feet, and the Crest is at 9,702 > feet... You were at 7,640 and losing altitude? How'd you drill > through the rock? :-) > > -- Robert > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:22 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest Here are Dave's pictures one more time in a larger format. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:59 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Mike am I to believe that if I buy a BRS chute for 3-4-5 thousand dollars from BRS and keep it till the rocket has reached its" good til date" , That BRS wont sell me a replacement rocket?If that is true then I guess one would have to pay the shipping for explosives . Chris ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Welch Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:34:34 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Steve, I doubt very seriously if BRS would sell Grant just the rocket motor portion of their system. They might, but I doubt it. If they did, I would probably buy just the motor. I have the chute, already, but I didn't get it from them, and it isn't a BRS chute brand. Mike Welch ________________________________ From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Grant, the parachute assembly can be shipped any way you like, but the rocket motor has to be shipped by a facility that is permitted to ship explosives. You might consider buying a BRS at a good price and have them ship just the chute. Then buy a new rocket assy. from BRS. That would make sense especially if the rocket is out of date. steve In a message dated 4/23/2008 10:30:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes: I see a few BRSs that I am interested in however no one will ship them and they are too far away from me to get. How can a used BRS be shipped? If I order a new one I am sure it will shipped to me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178654#178654 ________________________________ Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. _________________________________________________________________ Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:07 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest Will & Dave All I can say is WOW. Thanks Do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: WillUribe@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 5:23 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest Here are Dave's pictures one more time in a larger format. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:07 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Chris, No, I didn't say BRS wouldn't sell to it's customers parts of an upgrade system. Of course they would. I said I doubt they would sell you JUST the rocket motor. If you had purchased an earlier model from them, and it needed newer parts, sure, they'd sell you new stuff. It's been my experience that many vendors won't go to the trouble of inventing a great system, only to sell parts of it to "anybody". Most of the time, it's either the whole kit, or nothing. In some situations, some businesses may sell you parts of an upgraded system, provided you have their earlier version. Just my thoughts, that's all. Mike Welch ________________________________ Mike am I to believe that if I buy a BRS chute for 3-4-5 thousand dollars from BRS and keep it till the rocket has reached its" good til date" , That BRS wont sell me a replacement rocket?If that is true then I guess one would have to pay the shipping for explosives . Chris Steve, I doubt very seriously if BRS would sell Grant just the rocket motor portion of their system. They might, but I doubt it. If they did, I would probably buy just the motor. I have the chute, already, but I didn't get it from them, and it isn't a BRS chute brand. Mike Welch ________________________________ From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? Grant, the parachute assembly can be shipped any way you like, but the rocket motor has to be shipped by a facility that is permitted to ship explosives. You might consider buying a BRS at a good price and have them ship just the chute. Then buy a new rocket assy. from BRS. That would make sense especially if the rocket is out of date. steve In a message dated 4/23/2008 10:30:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes: I see a few BRSs that I am interested in however no one will ship them and they are too far away from me to get. How can a used ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and _________________________________________________________________ Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:42 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:45 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Sun N Fun 2008 The plane in the Photo is the New Kolb's new MKIII Extra with John H flying. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:22 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest Wrong again, Larry. Just got tired of asking nicely and getting rude responses. (Don't look now, but your lack of compassion is showing.) Maybe you'd like to call Verizon yourself and find out why we can't get dial-up in this area. That'd at least be more constructive than slinging barbs at those of us who kindly - repeatedly - ask for 'links' to be posted to the pics. Heavens, wouldn't want anyone to go out of their way and learn a technique that's been out there for 20 years. Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cottrell" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest > > After all the pictures that have been posted, I find myself waiting for > the usual complaining of overloading every ones dial up. Perhaps they all > quit in disgust at each and everyone's disregard for their plight? ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:35 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Serial Number From: N27SB@aol.com Hi Jack, (gotta be careful where you when you say that) It is #40 from TNK. You have to add up all of Old Kolbs then add about 30 on top of this one. ..................... Steve, Ok, that makes sense. Thanks Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:43 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest At 07:25 PM 4/23/2008, WillUribe@aol.com wrote: Wow! A giant airspeed indicator painted on the desert floor! :) Is that the "Rock House" I keep hearing about? -Dana -- If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians! ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:44 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest At 07:25 PM 4/23/2008, WillUribe@aol.com wrote: Wow! A giant airspeed indicator painted on the desert floor! :) Is that the "Rock House" I keep hearing about? -Dana -- If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians! ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:08 PM PST US From: TK Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Serial Number Jack B. Hart wrote: > > From: N27SB@aol.com > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:46:47 EDT > > Hi Jack, (gotta be careful where you when you say that) It is #40 from > TNK. You have to add up all of Old Kolbs then add about 30 on top of this > one. > ..................... > > Steve, > > Ok, that makes sense. Thanks > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > do not archive > Hey guys, As the builder and owner of FireFly # 95 back in 1998 from the original Kolb factory, where have all of the other FireFly's gone?!!!! 40 more from TNK makes a whole lot more out there or is my math faulty? What happened to all of the other FireFly's? Terry - FireFly #95 815 hr.'s ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:54 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Chmielewski" Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest > > > Wrong again, Larry. Just got tired of asking nicely and getting rude > responses. (Don't look now, but your lack of compassion is showing.) Hi, Actually you are incorrect about the lack of compassion. That is exactly what prompted the email in the first place. When I saw all the photos that was being sent to the list, I was amazed that no one had complained. Perhaps I worded it incorrectly. I of course gave up and went to Satellite, but I still remember waiting and waiting for a picture to finally manifest its self. I guess that I thought that some levity might be in order. Guess not. Larry C ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:07 PM PST US From: Flycrazy8@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sun N Fun 2008 Good picture of John and New Kolb Extra...... Got anymore pic to share of Sun-Fun.....Wasn't able to go this year. Stephen Kolb Firefly Alabama **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:02 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sun N Fun 2008 Stephen, just talking about you today. hit me off list steve In a message dated 4/23/2008 10:27:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Flycrazy8@aol.com writes: Good picture of John and New Kolb Extra...... Got anymore pic to share of Sun-Fun.....Wasn't able to go this year. Stephen Kolb Firefly Alabama ____________________________________ Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at _AOL Autos_ (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) . (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:03 PM PST US From: TK Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest John Williamson wrote: > > We say that our event is "Unplanned and Unorganized" but have never said is is without some kind of excitement. > > It is scarier to watch the video than it was to watch it in person. > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1486764191680773505 > > Back to the Contest: > > -------- > John Williamson > Arlington, TX > > Kolbra, 912ULS, 1595 hours > http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178668#178668 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj7_img_0786_107.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj1_100_0378_142.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj6_100_3395_182.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wj8_img_0799_346.jpg > John, Thanks for posting you pictures as jpg attachments rather than as part of the main message to the Kolb list. I enjoyed looking at them!!! We user's of the mail dial-up services appreciate not having our web mail locked up by these posting's. Unlike some of our other arrogant and inconsiderate members of this list, you must have a better understanding of the limitations some of us have in our service connections. Thank you !!!!!! Terry - FireFly #95 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:54 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest John I think Rick has a point!!!!!!!!!! Boyd >>>>>>>>> John W It depends on your point of view.... Do not archive Rick Neilsen ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:38 PM PST US From: Flycrazy8@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Shipping a BRS??? I did call BRS up and they did sell me a new rocket for the used BRS unit that I bought from Steve N27SB ... At a very nominal price ( if it had to save my life)..... They did ship it to me with the fuel separate from the actual rocket ( some assembly required) ...... Stephen Firefly Alabama **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick Video From: "N111KX (Kip)" Thanks for the comments. I am supposed to fly with the gyro guy tomorrow, hopefully to make another video. He has not even told me that it's for sale [Shocked] Kip -------- Kip Firestar II (born September 2000) Atlanta, GA N111KX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178863#178863 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:34 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Wing design and other stuff From: "JetPilot" Mike, I think you are right on about the Wingtips, and you are definitely right on about increasing safety any time you can lower the approach and stall speeds in your Kolb. Are you adding any length to your wings ? What will your total wingspan be ? I am also going to add the wingtips to my Kolb, but I don't have the time or the skill to make fiberglass ones, so I will have to wait for Kolb to start selling them. At the same time I am putting on the new wingtips, I will also add 2 feet of spar to each wingtip to make the wings as long as the new Kolb MK III, that also seems to have helped a good bit. What happened in your accident at 25 mph ? Did you live [Wink] If you could post the details it might help someone avoid the same thing one day. I look forward to seeing the pictures of what you are doing, and especially the truss structure you were talking about for the tips. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178867#178867 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.