---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/04/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:50 AM - Gear Legs (Cat36Fly@aol.com) 2. 09:20 AM - Re: Gear Legs (Mike Welch) 3. 11:03 AM - Re: Gear Legs (Larry Cottrell) 4. 11:56 AM - Gear legs, and wing incidences (Mike Welch) 5. 12:01 PM - Re: Gear Legs (robert bean) 6. 12:23 PM - gear legs (robert bean) 7. 12:39 PM - Re: Gear Legs (Larry Cottrell) 8. 04:00 PM - Re: marvel oil (Ron) 9. 05:05 PM - q (Russ Kinne) 10. 05:25 PM - Re: q (possums) 11. 05:41 PM - Re: q (planecrazzzy) 12. 05:48 PM - Re: q (Dana Hague) 13. 05:52 PM - FireFly flight instructions??? (Don G) 14. 05:52 PM - Re: Gear Legs (thumb) 15. 05:58 PM - Re: q (John Hauck) 16. 06:35 PM - Re: q (robert bean) 17. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: q (possums) 18. 07:39 PM - Re: Dead Stick and other Videos (N111KX (Kip)) 19. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos (possums) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:02 AM PST US From: Cat36Fly@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Gear Legs General Question to all; Have A MkIII X with the aluminum gear legs. On occasion the plane wants to nose over, especially when loaded with a couple of fairly big guys (175 +200). I know there were some problems like this when the MKIIIx came out but I haven't heard about any lately. Is this do to the new steel gear legs that has moved the wheels forward. I am considering installing them but would like to get some feed back on the pro's and con's of the new legs. Thanks Larry Tasker **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:27 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear Legs Larry, I'm not sure what you've read recently (last three months), but the subject of steel gear legs has been discussed extensively. I decided to make my own steel gear legs, like a few others have done, and one of them (John Bickham) was kind enough to supply me with sizes, measurements, drawings, pictures, etc. I had enough useful information to be able to tackle the job of making my own, fairly easily. Brian, at TNK tech support, was VERY helpful in informing me of all the ramifications of the gear leg changes. He gave me some the background information, plus made some measurements for me (of the new yellow Xtra's wings, hor. stab., etc.) The result: I could not be happier! My MkIII now sits up almost 6" taller at the fuselage. The wheels sit about 3" to 4" further forward, and maybe 12" wider overall stance (not exactly sure about the stance, it's just a guess, because I didn't actually measure the old stance---I'm just going by what it looks like) In MY opinion, if you made the change to the steel legs, I believe you'd wonder why you had not done it a lot earlier. The wheels will sit a few inches further forward, a little wider stance, and best of all...taller. The New Kolb sells the steel legs, as I am sure you are already aware. The factory legs will significantly alleviate the ailments you mentioned, no doubt. But, if for some reason, you want the wheels to be even more forward than the factory's legs, then you could make your own, as I did. If you want the wheels to be even more than 3"-4", let me know. I can tell you how to fix it so that if you make your own, you can do that. Whether you go with the factory legs, or go to the trouble of making your own, I'm certain you will like the improvement!! But, realize there a couple of minor modifications you'll also need to include in your project. First of all, when adding the longer steel legs, your plane's wings will have too high of a "rake", in the taxi position. In other words, there's too much incidence in the wing's mounting angle. The high angle works for the shorter aluminum legs, but if you go to the taller steel legs, you'll need to drill new holes on the wing's mounting tabs, to take some of the incidence out of the angle. (For more details, contact me off-list). Secondly, by adjusting the main wing's incidence, this will cause the angle of the horizontal stabilizers to be off, too. For the aluminum legs, the front edge of the hor. stab's are mounted quite high at their front mounting spot on the boom tube. If you go to steel legs, that front mounting height has to be lowered a couple of inches, or so. The enclosed attachment is something I put together from some nice gents who were kind enough to make some measurements for me. Again, for more information, contact me off-list...I can help decipher it for you). I hope this information is a little helpful. I've also enclosed a picture of my steel legs installed. Although I do NOT have an Xtra, you get the idea of what I've built. You may note that I haven't adjusted the wing's incidence, yet. For those that care, I'm almost finished with my fiberglass droop tips. More on that later. Larry, like I said, if you decide you absolutely just have to build your own steel legs, rather than buy them, I have a compendium of information, to help make the process painless. Mike Welch Kolb MkIII CX Cat36Fly@aol.com wrote: General Question to all; Have A MkIII X with the aluminum gear legs. On occasion the plane wants to nose over, especially when loaded with a couple of fairly big guys (175 +200). I know there were some problems like this when the MKIIIx came out but I haven't heard about any lately. Is this do to the new steel gear legs that has moved the wheels forward. I am considering installing them but would like to get some feed back on the pro's and con's of the new legs. Thanks Larry Tasker --------------------------------- Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:01 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear Legs Larry, I'm not sure what you've read recently (last three months), but the subject of steel gear legs has been discussed extensively. I decided to make my own steel gear legs, like a few others have done, and one of them (John Bickham) was kind enough to supply me with sizes, measurements, drawings, pictures, etc. I had enough useful information to be able to tackle the job of making my own, fairly easily. Mike, I have been wanting the steel legs for some time. I had thought last year that I had a source for the steel legs, but it didn't pan out, and TNK hadn't offered theirs at the time. Terry Davis had a extra set that he kindly let me have at a very reasonable price. I do like them a lot. The weakest part of the old Kolb design was the legs. Due to the angle forward that they set, if something goes wrong then that leg stabs into the ground causing substantial problems. However I understand why it was designed that way, but I would prefer to take my chances with sturdier legs. I question that you would need to change the wing incidence However, when the plane is up on its gear the wing incidence is the same whether the legs are long or short. In the two flights that I have made with mine since my last completion, I can find no difference at all in any of the flight charactistics. Thanks for the offer Larry C ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:19 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Gear legs, and wing incidences Larry, Regarding the wing's incidence with steel legs, yes, you are probably correct, when changing the legs on the Firestar. I think what I may be confusing is my conversation with Brian, @ TNK tech support, when he explained to me that when they were doing the flight testing on the newly invented Xtra, that they found they had to lower the incidence on the flying surfaces (front and back) due to the wedge shaped nose, and its' tendency to "plow" into the air, causing a nosedown pressure. IIRC, tho, it seemed as though this also tied in with the steel leg mods, too. Whatever the other Larry decides to do regarding his new gear legs, he should run it past Brian, for sure. Thanks for the correction. Mike Welch --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:57 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear Legs Larry, my $.02 worth on Mike's behalf; The incidence change has more to do with airflow change than longer legs. Since he has reconfigured the nose ala Xtra there is more downthrust forward of the CG. I believe the factory Xtra also has the different incidence. I am going to give it a try on my modified MkIII too even though it doesn't have as wide a nose as the Xtra. The stock MkIII nose bowl, having a large radius front enables the air to easily flow to a lower pressure area- a very good design. My plane, although modestly powered, exhibits an uncomfortable and nearly indescribable sensation over 70 MPH. You can feel a sort of struggling oscillation going on that makes you want to slow back down. At 65 no problem. I attribute this to the pointy nose and very wide, transitioning to nearly flat, windshield creating a lot of downthrust (that doesn't occur with a stock nose and windshield) Just my opinion but when I do lower those leading edges I'll give a report on what happened. BB On 4, May 2008, at 1:59 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > > > Larry, > > I'm not sure what you've read recently (last three months), but > the subject of steel gear legs has been discussed extensively. I > decided to make my own steel gear legs, like a few others have > done, and one of them (John Bickham) was kind enough to supply me > with sizes, measurements, drawings, pictures, etc. I had enough > useful information to be able to tackle the job of making my own, > fairly easily. > > > Mike, > I have been wanting the steel legs for some time. I had thought > last year that I had a source for the steel legs, but it didn't pan > out, and TNK hadn't offered theirs at the time. Terry Davis had a > extra set that he kindly let me have at a very reasonable price. I > do like them a lot. The weakest part of the old Kolb design was the > legs. Due to the angle forward that they set, if something goes > wrong then that leg stabs into the ground causing substantial > problems. However I understand why it was designed that way, but I > would prefer to take my chances with sturdier legs. > > I question that you would need to change the wing incidence > However, when the plane is up on its gear the wing incidence is the > same whether the legs are long or short. In the two flights that I > have made with mine since my last completion, I can find no > difference at all in any of the flight charactistics. > Thanks for the offer > Larry C > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:47 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: gear legs for comparison: a locally based MkIII (with steel factory legs) DSCN1166.JPG my duck-billed creation: welded steel tube windshield posts more foot room on the rudder pedals. It all comes apart with 10-32 screws DSCN1158.JPG copy
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:35 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear Legs ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bean To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear Legs Larry, my $.02 worth on Mike's behalf; The incidence change has more to do with airflow change than longer legs. Since he has reconfigured the nose ala Xtra there is more downthrust forward of the CG. I believe the factory Xtra also has the different incidence. I am going to give it a try on my modified MkIII too even though it doesn't have as wide a nose as the Xtra. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Oops, I guess I didn't read far enough on Mikes email, I thought he was replying to me and my Firestar. Sorry, when I saw Larry in the address, I jumped to an incorrect conclusion. Larry C do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:30 PM PST US From: Ron Subject: Re: Kolb-List: marvel oil I would not worry about any wash down of oil by ethanol. Ethanol is a very poor solvent when it comes to Petroleum based oils. Gasoline is a much more effective solvent for washing the oil off. I have already tested that and found that its very hard to remove Petro oil with ethanol, almost on par with trying to remove the oil with water, but very easy to do with gasoline. I suspect that the only reason E-85 washed the oil off at all was because of the 15% gasoline in it. Ron (now in NC) Is there any Kolb active group in NC, today would have been a good day to visit. ============================ ---- tc1917 wrote: ============ was wondering, with the advent of the alky in our gas of late, could we ofset the cylinder 'wash-down' of oil from alcohol by adding marvel oil to our gas. I know it says not to put additives into our gas but it might help a little. what do all you experts think? Ted Cowan, Alabama Slingshot 912 UL -- kugelair.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:06 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Kolb-List: q List New subject, and no rush about getting answers. I spect many are readying for MV trips. But does anyone have a stall-warning horn or light? I've done a lot of low-altitude, low speed flying (mostly swordfish spotting and whale research) and have relied fairly heavily on having a stall- warning alarm. At least I think I have; after hundreds of hours it's all automatic by now. Have been accused of wearing out the stall- warning horn; but that's not (quite) true. However I THINK I will need some sort of approach-to-stall warning when I start flying a Kolb. Opinions? Russ Kinne do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:04 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q At 07:59 PM 5/4/2008, you wrote: > >List >New subject, and no rush about getting answers. I spect many are >readying for MV trips. >But does anyone have a stall-warning horn or light? I've done a lot >of low-altitude, low speed flying (mostly swordfish spotting and >whale research) and have relied fairly heavily on having a stall- >warning alarm. At least I think I have; after hundreds of hours it's >all automatic by now. Have been accused of wearing out the stall- >warning horn; but that's not (quite) true. >However I THINK I will need some sort of approach-to-stall warning >when I start flying a Kolb. >Opinions? >Russ Kinne >do not archive I don't know anyone that has one on a Kolb. I don't think you are going to need one, you can feel the stall coming and it (or mine) just mushes and tries to keep flying. Here's flying right on the edge of a stall - 25mph. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8643180947591432536&hl=en I you want a good clean break, you pretty much have to yank the nose up. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1724203084033037294&hl=en ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: q From: "planecrazzzy" Hey Possum, That was odd watching the stall where you pulled the stick back to make it stall more..... I noticed you never had to really push the stick forward to recover.... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181115#181115 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:32 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q At 07:59 PM 5/4/2008, Russ Kinne wrote: >However I THINK I will need some sort of approach-to-stall warning >when I start flying a Kolb. >Opinions? Learned to fly in 150's that had stall horns, never had one in my T-Craft, or the Quick I flew for awhile, or my US... and never missed it. If you practice stalls, know your plane, and know that an imminent stall feels like, you won't need a horn. -Dana -- Why are there Interstate highways in Hawaii? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:14 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly flight instructions??? From: "Don G" Gents, I was asked awhile back to write down flight instructions for the Firefly I built sometime back for the fella who bought it from its current owners. Upon reflection, and remembering how many questions I had in my own mind about flying a Kolb before I was helped out by a friendly Kolb owner, I thought I would post the doc here, simply for new prospective owners. Now I am sure some with more journalistic talent than I, and better pilots than I, might want to add their own comments...go ahead. I am not the first word or the last on this subject. This is simply for the archives. Kolb FireFly SN098 Flight instructions (R447 power) Starting: Set Wheel chocks Set Throttle to Idle Turn on electric fuel pump and wait for 10 seconds Turn on ign switch Pull primer/enrichener lever (over left side seat) Place left foot on tirePull recoil. Hold plane and manually caress throttle up until engine smoothes out. Close enrichener lever/circuit. When engine seems warmed up enough to lower throttlePull chocksjump in..Strap inand taxi. Turn off electric fuel pump. (personal pref) Take off: When aligned on runwaygently ease throttle up to max as ground speed increases. DO NOT increase throttle to fast, or due to high thrustlinecraft will nose over .. This will simply have to come by experience as airspeed indicator wont be working yet. You dont want to have too little groundspeed that the elevators are not effective enough to hold the nose up or the tail down. In the first stages of feeling this out, You will find that if enough speed is attained to raise the tail ,then lower it, (tail control I call it) you will have enough elevator to keep it down at full throttle. IF you cannot lower the tail after bringing it up, you are on the edgewait for groundspeed to pick up more or lower throttle if the nose is going overso if you can bring the tail up, and then lower ityou can be at full throttle. This all happen very quicklyand will become a fluid practice after a few tries. I would estimate from idle to full throttle will be 5 or 6 secondswheels off will be aprox 3 or 4 seconds later..maybe 5 if heavy My technique isSet flaperons to then increasing throttle and groundspeed evenly until I can raise the tailthen full throttle and lower tail back to ground or slightly above.let it fly off. Airspeed will be working by now, and after breaking ground hold airspeed to 55 -60 mph and climb.make sure rpms are at or above 6000if much below, say 5800abort takeoff and see why engine is not coming up to speed. (fuelProp etc..) I usually have flaperons back to neutral by pattern altitude. If angle of climb is to great for your tastethen let speed go to 65 or 70(grin) After good familiarity with aircraftclimbouts can be accomplished at 45 to 50 mph indicated easilybut, the angle of attack is so steep, you will be accused of showing off or flying recklessly if you do this at fly-ins or air shows Unless of courseeveryone there is a Kolb driver..then no one will think a moment about it! For methese speeds worked well (your mileage may vary) Climb out = 55/60 indicated Cruise = 70/75this greatly influence by weight but engine likes 56 to 5800 rpms. Max speed..85/90 mph at 6500 rpms .cautionwhen operating here, or anywhere above 6200 rpms..fuel goes thru engine at an alarming rate. My estimate is 10 /12 gph. Approach =60 Stall = 30 LANDING: As with any very light weight craft, 098 will loose airspeed very quickly when power is removed. For this reason, Until you get alot of experience in it, Landing should be flown with some power at all times, until the moment of touchdown. For your first few landings: Fly the pattern at 601/2 flaperons on base leg, (Notice pitch effect!!)!.maintain 60 on finaland even over the numbers,, then at 10 to 15 feet, slowly lower throttle and altitude, (throttle can be left at 3000 rpms and it will come down ) When wheel touchcut power. This would be best accomplished on a long runway, as to see how fast airspeed goes away at lower throttle setting. If you get in troublethe FireFly will Fly away very quickly and resume a climb with full power . It is very easy to reverse Vertical speed with power and attitudedont force a bad landing There is nothing in the air that will bend a Kolband she loves to flyso if the cross wind has you askewor for whatever reason you dont think it is gonna be a pretty landinghit the gas and fly awayjust remember when you apply throttle quicklythere will be a strong pitching moment of the nose down and the tail up..(that high thrustline)..so have a little backpressure on the stick as you push the throttle forwardand be ready for it. Also remember, these numbers and speeds quoted above are for Kolb FireFly #098 Other single seat Kolbs will no doubt have slightly different numbers. My last word of advice, if you are a pilot, and have basic piloting skillsthen DO NOT try and get the feel of the airplane by taxing it around with the tail up and all that jazzyou probably will never get to enjoy flying it if you do, just the joy of repairing it. All you need to know about an airplanes ground handling is which pedal makes it go which way, and how to hold the upwind wing down in a crosswind.. You get the Feel for an aircraft in the air. If , after you have taken off for the first timeyou are intimidated about landing itthen go back to altitude and play with itstall ittake steep turns. Fool around with slow flight and watch the airspeed and Vertical Speed and get the feel of the ailerons at low speedsand the flaperon settingscheck the feel of the stick///its different with flaperons deployed than withoutand has different effectiveness Then..pick a long runway and FLY the aircraft down to 10 ft or less of altitude at an airspeed you already know works, and slowly remove the power and let it come downas soon as the wheels touch.. cut the power and if you have timego and take off again and do this again. If you concentrate to hard on getting a flare the craft will likely end up ceaseing to fly to high and plop down the last few feet due to lack or inertia. This is how the gear get bent. A lot of typical GA pilots do this in a Kolb, they stop flying the plane and pull the stick back and just freeze, waiting for it to settle. Dont do this..Fly it all the way to touchdown. Remember, as I said, there is nothing in the Air that will Bend an aircraft, but just about everything on the ground will. So I have adopted this strategy for over 30 years of flying, when an airplane is movingkeep its time on the ground at an absolute minimum. This is when it is most vulnerable to damage. I dont claim to have never bent an aircraft..in fact I have bent severalI guess thats how I know this rule works the best. -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181119#181119 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:45 PM PST US From: "thumb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear Legs This is for Mike Welch,sorry guys I don't have his e-mail. Mike would you send me pictures on how you did your wheel pants off list. My e-mail is bill_joe@bellsouth.net Thanks Bill Futrell Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear Legs Larry, I'm not sure what you've read recently (last three months), but the subject of steel gear legs has been discussed extensively. I decided to make my own steel gear legs, like a few others have done, and one of them (John Bickham) was kind enough to supply me with sizes, measurements, drawings, pictures, etc. I had enough useful information to be able to tackle the job of making my own, fairly easily. Brian, at TNK tech support, was VERY helpful in informing me of all the ramifications of the gear leg changes. He gave me some the background information, plus made some measurements for me (of the new yellow Xtra's wings, hor. stab., etc.) The result: I could not be happier! My MkIII now sits up almost 6" taller at the fuselage. The wheels sit about 3" to 4" further forward, and maybe 12" wider overall stance (not exactly sure about the stance, it's just a guess, because I didn't actually measure the old stance---I'm just going by what it looks like) In MY opinion, if you made the change to the steel legs, I believe you'd wonder why you had not done it a lot earlier. The wheels will sit a few inches further forward, a little wider stance, and best of all...taller. The New Kolb sells the steel legs, as I am sure you are already aware. The factory legs will significantly alleviate the ailments you mentioned, no doubt. But, if for some reason, you want the wheels to be even more forward than the factory's legs, then you could make your own, as I did. If you want the wheels to be even more than 3"-4", let me know. I can tell you how to fix it so that if you make your own, you can do that. Whether you go with the factory legs, or go to the trouble of making your own, I'm certain you will like the improvement!! But, realize there a couple of minor modifications you'll also need to include in your project. First of all, when adding the longer steel legs, your plane's wings will have too high of a "rake", in the taxi position. In other words, there's too much incidence in the wing's mounting angle. The high angle works for the shorter aluminum legs, but if you go to the taller steel legs, you'll need to drill new holes on the wing's mounting tabs, to take some of the incidence out of the angle. (For more details, contact me off-list). Secondly, by adjusting the main wing's incidence, this will cause the angle of the horizontal stabilizers to be off, too. For the aluminum legs, the front edge of the hor. stab's are mounted quite high at their front mounting spot on the boom tube. If you go to steel legs, that front mounting height has to be lowered a couple of inches, or so. The enclosed attachment is something I put together from some nice gents who were kind enough to make some measurements for me. Again, for more information, contact me off-list...I can help decipher it for you). I hope this information is a little helpful. I've also enclosed a picture of my steel legs installed. Although I do NOT have an Xtra, you get the idea of what I've built. You may note that I haven't adjusted the wing's incidence, yet. For those that care, I'm almost finished with my fiberglass droop tips. More on that later. Larry, like I said, if you decide you absolutely just have to build your own steel legs, rather than buy them, I have a compendium of information, to help make the process painless. Mike Welch Kolb MkIII CX Cat36Fly@aol.com wrote: General Question to all; Have A MkIII X with the aluminum gear legs. On occasion the plane wants to nose over, especially when loaded with a couple of fairly big guys (175 +200). I know there were some problems like this when the MKIIIx came out but I haven't heard about any lately. Is this do to the new steel gear legs that has moved the wheels forward. I am considering installing them but would like to get some feed back on the pro's and con's of the new legs. Thanks Larry Tasker ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Be a better friend, newshound, and ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:07 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q > But does anyone have a stall-warning horn or light? > Russ Kinne Russ: That is what I use my ASI for. john r ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:01 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q It would have to be a pretty loud horn for me to hear it :) BB do not archive On 4, May 2008, at 8:55 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > But does anyone have a stall-warning horn or light? >> Russ Kinne > Russ: > > That is what I use my ASI for. > > john r > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:06 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: q At 08:38 PM 5/4/2008, you wrote: > >Hey Possum, > > That was odd watching the stall where you pulled the stick back > >to make it stall more..... I noticed you never had to really push the stick > >forward to recover.... I noticed that too, now that you mentioned it. But I don't really think about what I'm doing anymore, I've been in the same plan so long. The plan picks up enough speed on the break without me having to add any - I guess. The controls used to be sloppy at 30mph - before I added the VGs. But I know you don't need them if you don't want to add them. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos From: "N111KX (Kip)" Added another. Duct tape makes for a nice camera mount... [Wink] -------- Kip Firestar II (born September 2000) Atlanta, GA N111KX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181153#181153 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:10 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos At 10:36 PM 5/4/2008, you wrote: > >Added another. Duct tape makes for a nice camera mount... [Wink] > >-------- >Kip Where ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.