---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/05/08: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:28 AM - Re: Dead Stick and other Videos (N111KX (Kip)) 2. 04:34 AM - Re: q (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 3. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos (robert bean) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: q (Rex Rodebush) 5. 07:51 AM - Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie (lucien) 6. 08:05 AM - Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie (JetPilot) 7. 08:27 AM - Streamlined Gear Legs (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 8. 09:01 AM - Re: q (David Lucas) 9. 09:06 AM - Re: Streamlined Gear Legs (Larry Cottrell) 10. 09:20 AM - Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie (lucien) 11. 09:29 AM - Re: Streamlined Gear Legs (Mike Welch) 12. 12:48 PM - Firestar Project (william sullivan) 13. 01:49 PM - Mark III spins and rudder authority? (grantr) 14. 02:20 PM - Re: Firestar Project (Larry Cottrell) 15. 03:00 PM - Re: Dead Stick and other Videos (N111KX (Kip)) 16. 03:54 PM - Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (John Williamson) 17. 05:02 PM - Re: q (chris davis) 18. 05:44 PM - Re: qqqqqq Stall Warning (Steven Green) 19. 05:50 PM - Re: q (Russ Kinne) 20. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest (John Hauck) 21. 06:10 PM - qqqqqq (John Hauck) 22. 06:14 PM - Re: q (John Hauck) 23. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos (possums) 24. 08:12 PM - Re: Homer Kolb Fly-in (DAquaNut@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:20 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos From: "N111KX (Kip)" In the third video I used a piece of wood to bolt the camera on via the tripod mount hole and then taped the rig to the boom as far back as possible... Possums wrote: > At 10:36 PM 5/4/2008, you wrote: > > > > > > > Added another. Duct tape makes for a nice camera mount... [Wink] > > > > -------- > > Kip > > > > > > Where ? -------- Kip Firestar II (born September 2000) Atlanta, GA N111KX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181194#181194 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:56 AM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q I don't think you will be able to get a stall horn that will be loud enough to hear but you can try "good luck" I never needed one though do not archive Ellery in Maine In a message dated 5/4/2008 8:49:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, d-m-hague@comcast.net writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague At 07:59 PM 5/4/2008, Russ Kinne wrote: >However I THINK I will need some sort of approach-to-stall warning >when I start flying a Kolb. >Opinions? Learned to fly in 150's that had stall horns, never had one in my T-Craft, or the Quick I flew for awhile, or my US... and never missed it. If you practice stalls, know your plane, and know that an imminent stall feels like, you won't need a horn. -Dana -- Why are there Interstate highways in Hawaii? **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:35 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos my turn.... where indeed? BB (maybe the duct tape failed) do not archive On 5, May 2008, at 7:25 AM, N111KX (Kip) wrote: > > > In the third video I used a piece of wood to bolt the camera on via > the tripod mount hole and then taped the rig to the boom as far > back as possible... > > > Possums wrote: >> At 10:36 PM 5/4/2008, you wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Added another. Duct tape makes for a nice camera mount... [Wink] >>> >>> -------- >>> Kip >>> >>> >> >> Where ? > > > -------- > Kip > Firestar II (born September 2000) > Atlanta, GA > N111KX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181194#181194 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:24 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: q From: "Rex Rodebush" I noticed that when I fly a J-3 cub with the doors open I have a built in stall warning. The lower section of the door folds down. When you are just beginning a stall the air flow will lift the door up. This happens just a second or two before I can feel the stall. I wonder if a ribbon tied on your strut might do the same thing? Nice and cheap! Rex Rodebush Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181234#181234 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie From: "lucien" Arty Trost wrote: > Lucien - > > I'd like to share this info (alkie less harmful than > the lead in 100LL) with my club. Can you either > summarize the reasoning from the Titan list, or tell > me how to access the thread on that list? > > Thanks - > > Arty Trost > Maxair Drifter > Sandy, Oregon > > Hi Arty, Actually, the thread continued on a while (though we devolved into a discussion of ethanol production and kind of went off on a tangent) and there still seem to be divergent opinions. I got a PM that outlined some carburettor damage that was apparently traced to ethanol, something I'd consider very dangerous and that I hadn't given a lot of thought to. So I don't think I can offer anythiing conclusive. But with a little more research having been done, I'm swinging my opinion back the other way, where I think I'd be better off with 100LL and just accept a possibly reduced TBO and/or damage to the slipper clutch over time. Those are preferable to me than rust on the innards and the sound of silence due to carburettor rubber part damage. Or I could just go back to flying a 2-stroke, which can run on 100LL without problems (in my experience). I'm going to have to make a decision quick, tho, as they're already spiking the gas in my area (but not marking the pumps as such)...... It's probably going to just be 100LL, which is the only non-alcohol containing gas in my area..... LS -------- LS FS II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181235#181235 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie From: "JetPilot" I am think Auto Gas containing Alcohol is much better for the 912-s than 100 LL. I have a fuel sump, and always check for water no matter what kind of fuel I am using, so water is not an issue. Possible carburetor damage, almost everyone is being forced to buy ethanol now and reports will be coming in and I will know what to look for in the carbs long before there is a problem. Carburetors are easy to inspect and fix :) Lead in my 912-s due to using 100 LL does many bad things, none of which are easy to fix. Being forced to run non synthetic oil will cause my 912-s to wear out much sooner than it should. This makes for a very easy choice for me, I will keep using Auto gas. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181238#181238 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Streamlined Gear Legs From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" Larry - Congrats on getting your bird back together and flying so quickly! The streamlining on your gear legs appears to be the same plastic slip-on streamlining used for our Kolb wing struts. How did you secure it to you gear legs? (Is it even secured at all?) I ask, because I have some extra streamlining that I want to install on my OWN gear legs. Hopin' to pick up a knot or two in cruise if I do this. Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, in Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:43 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: q From: "David Lucas" Russ, Have you thought or heard about about an 'Angle of Attack' or 'Lift Reserve Indicator' ? If you want to go further with this then perhaps a 'google' search and a little research on the subject might be in order. I watched a demo at Sun'n Fun last month and it was impressive.The major advantage of this device is it indicates your current angle of attack regardless of airspeed or g loading etc, whereas the Indicated Air Speed at stall is only valid for a given set of circumstances. Change the circumstances and the IAS value will change with it. There seem to be some fairly simple and cheap DIY versions available right through to sophisticated models with audio warning and/or blinking lights as you approach the critical angle. Those come with a higher price tag of course. Might be worth looking at anyway. Fly safe ! David. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181248#181248 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:45 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Streamlined Gear Legs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:24 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Streamlined Gear Legs Hi, Actually they are aluminum. I had some extra sheet aluminum 30 thousands thick that I bent to fit the legs. They are secured with a strip of Velcro at the back where they come together. I probably didn't need it as they are pretty snug without. I think that if they are able to move freely on the leg the wind would align them correctly. The blanks are 10 inches wide and bent on a homemade brake. So when I was painting I also shot them with paint as well, using vinegar as a etching agent. Time will tell. Larry C ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:43 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie From: "lucien" JetPilot wrote: > I am think Auto Gas containing Alcohol is much better for the 912-s than 100 LL. I have a fuel sump, and always check for water no matter what kind of fuel I am using, so water is not an issue. > > Possible carburetor damage, almost everyone is being forced to buy ethanol now and reports will be coming in and I will know what to look for in the carbs long before there is a problem. Carburetors are easy to inspect and fix :) Lead in my 912-s due to using 100 LL does many bad things, none of which are easy to fix. Being forced to run non synthetic oil will cause my 912-s to wear out much sooner than it should. This makes for a very easy choice for me, I will keep using Auto gas. > > Mike It's the water that _hasn't_ happened to have seperated out of the ethanol when I check the drain that really concerns me. It can then precipitate out later whilst in the engine unbeknownst to me and do absolutely nightmarish things.... BTDT and ain't goin there again! ;) As for the oil, the motor will go out to TBO fine with a semi-synthetic, I don't see that as a concern. But so far with the info I've gotten both ways that it looks like 100LL barely eases out ahead of the spiked mogas in terms of reliability and longevity. There'll be a hike in the maintenance needed, but that's a lot better than rusted out bearings, etc...... That's the way I'm going to go, looks like (until an unleaded avgas appears if it ever appears ;))... LS -------- LS FS II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181255#181255 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:36 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Streamlined Gear Legs Dennis, How's the airplane repairs coming along? I understand you're going to MV, but I thought I read somewqhere Dave is picking you up in his C-175. Regarding the attachment of the steamline shaped fairing, if I were to attach mine, I would most likely use that insulation foam called "Great Stuff". $5 at Home Depot. Just a little shot at each end of the opening, around the gear leg, and after a few hours it is STUCK!! If you aren't very familiar with the product, I'd recommend a couple of practice projects, to find out how much is expands. (which is quite a bit) You would only want a shot of it in front and behind the gear leg. Not too much, tho! (You would want to duct tape the fairing in position, so that the foam doesn't alter the fairing, during the expanding stage). Once it is firm, carve and shape the excess that bulged out the fairing. You could even fill, sand and paint the ends. One thing to note is that once you spray the stuff, LEAVE IT ALONE! If you screw with it, it sort of collapses, and doesn't "re-expand." It weighs virtually nothing, is easy to shape if excess bulges out, and is cheap. And holds on better than King Kong's grip! BTW, if you are really serious about streamlining your MkIII, the best place to start is where the windscreen intersects below the leading edge of the wing. That is where Barnaby Wainfan began his design changes, and came up with the "Xtra". Consider making your own fiberglass fairing to smooth the airflow over the wing gap. Just my thoughts....... Mike Welch "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" wrote: Larry - Congrats on getting your bird back together and flying so quickly! The streamlining on your gear legs appears to be the same plastic slip-on streamlining used for our Kolb wing struts. How did you secure it to you gear legs? (Is it even secured at all?) I ask, because I have some extra streamlining that I want to install on my OWN gear legs. Hopin' to pick up a knot or two in cruise if I do this. Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, in Cedar Crest, NM --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:57 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar Project We went to the airfield yesterday and switched out the bent LG legs. One of the bent ones is clearly marked 6061. Definately home made. Nice machine work, wrong material. We installed what appears to be the original legs, marked "R" and "L". Because they were only slightly bent, I put them in bent side up, until I do something permanently. I checked the sockets, and there is a piece of tubing in there to bush it down from 1 1/8" to 1". On one side the tube goes in 8 1/2", the other side is 9". I get my Kolb List info late due to a computer problem, so I didn't check to see if they were aluminum or steel. TNK doesn't have 1" ones, so I will have to see about converting. I think Larry's FS had the same lower axle fitting, so I may as well change that, too. I hope the tube are just tight in there, and not welded or something. A friend of mine has some reamers, and I will check with him. There is still a slight negative dihedral on the right wing, and I don't like the front adapter. That will be re-done shortly. I ran slow taxi tests up and down the field to check the old gear. I never went fast enough to lift the tail, but did the same U-turns, S-turns, and right and left turns to check the gear (and my back) on the bumps on the grass strip. I probably made another 8 laps, and it handles nicely- except for no brakes. John H.- thanks for the history. I wonder why they were 1" originally, when there was room for the 1 1/8"? Strange. Bill Sullivan FS/KX/447 Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:57 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III spins and rudder authority? From: "grantr" How does the Mark III Classic do in a spin? The reason I ask is we did a slight cross controlled stall and with just a tad of rudder input she dropped the wing fairly quick. I think it surprised my instructor. It spooked me. Stalls with out rudder in put are very docile and straight. Is the Mark III safe to spin or not? We are not planning to spin it but it would be nice to do a more abrupt cross controlled stall for practice. I dont have a BRS on the plane. Also the plane requires very little to no rudder input to fly coordinated turns. It will not slip very well either. The Mark IIIs rudder authority is nothing like the challenger II where the rudder seems to be a whole lot more sensitive and effective in slips and is needed for coordinated turns. Of course the MK III has a long tail and larger tail feathers. Grant Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181317#181317 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:25 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar Project ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:46 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar Project I checked the sockets, and there is a piece of tubing in there to bush it down from 1 1/8" to 1". On one side the tube goes in 8 1/2", the other side is 9". I get my Kolb List info late due to a computer problem, so I didn't check to see if they were aluminum or steel. TNK doesn't have 1" ones, so I will have to see about converting. I think Larry's FS had the same lower axle fitting, so I may as well change that, too. I hope the tube are just tight in there, and not welded or something. A friend of mine has some reamers, and I will check with him. Hi, Since my confusion the other day with which Larry people are addressing, I will try to be a bit more careful. As I understand there is Larry C (me) and Larry T. Anyway to the point, My Firestar is a 94 model and it had the sleeves in the gear legs. I of course bent them, got a new pair that were 1 1/8. The sleeves come right out, or at least mine did. If you have to, make a hook with a stiff piece of welding rod and hook them at the top and pull them out. I believe that the reasoning behind the light gear legs was to supply a shear pin type of protection to the cage in case of a hard landing. While in many ways there might be some merit to this thinking, After two landings where in one, the gear leg sheared off due to a soccer ball size rock hiding in the weeds at a forced landing site. The remaining leg stabbed into the ground flipping me up on my back, and the most recent one where inattention and stupidity combined to cause a stall too close to the ground to completely recover from, broke an axle fitting, resulting in a landing distance of 10 feet, due to the gear leg digging into the ground all the way up to the bottom of the cage. If the legs pointed backwards then the shear effect would be just fine and work well. As it is, I think it contributes to damage to the cage and have now gone to as fool proof and strong a version of gear legs and wheels as is possible. I believe that if I had the same legs on then as I do now, there would have been less damage and repairs required. for what its worth Larry C do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:36 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos From: "N111KX (Kip)" Just forward of the horizontal stab. The tape held. The camera did not fall off... [quote="slyck(at)frontiernet.net"]my turn.... where indeed? BB (maybe the duct tape failed) do not archive On 5, May 2008, at 7:25 AM, N111KX (Kip) wrote: [quote] In the third video I used a piece of wood to bolt the camera on via the tripod mount hole and then taped the rig to the boom as far back as possible... do not archive -------- Kip Firestar II (born September 2000) Atlanta, GA N111KX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181333#181333 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest From: "John Williamson" The Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest submission deadline is just a week away. All photos submitted before 2400 hours, 12 May 2008 will be considered. Results of the Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest will be announced on the Monument Valley Airport flightline Friday, 16 May 2008 at 1700 hours. -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1595 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181339#181339 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:28 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q Russ, I havn't got anywhere near the time in spam cans that I imagine you h ave but I did spend at least 500 hrs inthe right seat of a 172 and about th e same in- a Heleo Courier I have flown a Firestar 490 hrs and did a lot of low level tight turns at just above stall speed and my 2 cents is DONT W ORRY ABOUT IT- you will be able to fly slower and lower than you ever fle w before and at that " you will still be well above stall speed "! just my 2cents Chris=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Russ Kinne =0ATo: Kolb List =0ASent: Sunday, May 4, 2008 7:59:56 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: q=0A=0A--> Kolb-List message poste d by: Russ Kinne =0A=0AList=0ANew subject, and no rush a bout getting answers. I spect many are- =0Areadying for MV trips.=0ABut d oes anyone have a stall-warning horn or light? I've done a lot- =0Aof low -altitude, low speed flying (mostly swordfish spotting and- =0Awhale rese arch) and have relied fairly heavily on having a stall- =0Awarning alarm. A t least I think I have; after hundreds of hours it's- =0Aall automatic by now. Have been accused of wearing out the stall- =0Awarning horn; but that 's not (quite) true.=0AHowever I THINK I will need some sort of approach-to -stall warning- =0Awhen I start flying a Kolb.=0AOpinions?=0ARuss Kinne -=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Drall ==========0A=0A=0A _________________________________ ___________________________________________________=0ABe a better friend, n ewshound, and =0Aknow-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobil e.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:12 PM PST US From: "Steven Green" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: qqqqqq Stall Warning My Mark III gives an audible warning from the prop before a power on stall, even at low power settings. Steven BTW Why is the subject line always "q". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Kinne" Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:59 PM Subject: Kolb-List: q > > List > New subject, and no rush about getting answers. I spect many are readying > for MV trips. > But does anyone have a stall-warning horn or light? I've done a lot of > low-altitude, low speed flying (mostly swordfish spotting and whale > research) and have relied fairly heavily on having a stall- warning alarm. > At least I think I have; after hundreds of hours it's all automatic by > now. Have been accused of wearing out the stall- warning horn; but that's > not (quite) true. > However I THINK I will need some sort of approach-to-stall warning when I > start flying a Kolb. > Opinions? > Russ Kinne > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:24 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q Chris, list, all Thanx for the input in re stall warnings. I may not have made myself clear. In whale research I'm usually 300-500AGL and putting all my attention out the window, shooting pix. It does help to have an audible warning. I love the way a J3's door acts as as an AOA indicator, and I imagine I'll be able to feel a Kolb well before it quits flying. But I did want to ask. Russ Kinne do not archive On May 5, 2008, at 7:59 PM, chris davis wrote: > Russ, I havn't got anywhere near the time in spam cans that I > imagine you have but I did spend at least 500 hrs inthe right seat > of a 172 and about the same in a Heleo Courier I have flown a > Firestar 490 hrs and did a lot of low level tight turns at just > above stall speed and my 2 cents is DONT WORRY ABOUT IT you will > be able to fly slower and lower than you ever flew before and at > that " you will still be well above stall speed "! just my 2cents > Chris > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:44 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2008 Photo Contest > Results of the ?oMonument Valley 2008 Photo Contest? will be announced on the Monument Valley Airport flightline Friday, 16 May 2008 at 1700 hours. > > -------- > John Williamson John W: Great! I should be out of my sleeping bag by 1700. john h mkIII - No one will believe me, but my airplane is ready to be loaded and fuel topped off to leave for MV in one week tomorrow. This has to be a first and some kind of a record for me. Usually, I don't have the airplane ready to go until the day before. Just got back from my buddy Ronnie Collins, where I gunked the 912ULS and washed Miss P'fer for the first time since last Sep. Hope I can make it to MV without a stall warning horn. ;-) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:26 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: qqqqqq > Steven > > BTW Why is the subject line always "q". Steven G: I don't know about Tennessee or Connecticut, but down here in the Heart of Dixie "q" means one is a little light in the loafers. ;-) john h mkIII - Too deaf to hear a stall warning horn. Almost too blind to see one. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:15 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: q Russ K: At that altitude you could stall a Kolb and recover several times, unless you were sound asleep. Like I have said previously, I depend on the ASI to keep me above stall speed, especially when I am near the ground or water. If you are that engrossed in photography, suggest you get a pilot to fly you. One that depends entirely on his instincts to keep from stalling will one day pay the price. john h mkIII I'm usually 300-500AGL Russ Kinne ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:27 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick and other Videos At 09:31 AM 5/5/2008, you wrote: > >my turn.... where indeed? >BB >(maybe the duct tape failed) >do not archive I found it http://youtube.com/watch?v=vvIZ0_dw1m4 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:38 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer Kolb Fly-in Terry, Could you post the Date for Homers Fly-in? I was thinking it was on Fathers Day but cant remember. I was not planning on going at first but now I am considering it. Ed Diebel **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. 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