Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:20 AM - Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (David Lucas)
2. 01:41 AM - Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (David Lucas)
3. 01:55 AM - Re: trim (Tony Oldman)
4. 04:36 AM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (knowvne@aol.com)
5. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: Droop wingtips project (chris davis)
6. 09:43 AM - Re: Monument Valley or bust!! (WillUribe@aol.com)
7. 10:44 AM - Re: Monument Valley or bust!! (Clayton, James)
8. 11:35 AM - Re: Monument Valley or bust!! (Bob Dalton)
9. 03:57 PM - Aircraft are not toys (possums)
10. 05:43 PM - Re: Aircraft are not toys (HShack@aol.com)
11. 07:56 PM - Re: Aircraft are not toys (robert bean)
12. 08:48 PM - Re: Monument Valley or bust!! (Mike Welch)
13. 09:05 PM - Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (JetPilot)
14. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (Dudley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? |
Just looked at the Aircraft Spruce site. There was one warning down the bottom
of the page;
> Note: The pumps above do not feature an anti-siphoning valve and fuel will flow
through them in event of pump failure.
Worth keeping in mind.
David.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183517#183517
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| Subject: | Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? |
> I do not like " In Tank " fuel pumps for this application, you are just looking
for problems mounting it in the tank with wires etc. Sounds like an inflight
emergency or fire waiting to happen.
Think it's more of a 'psychological' barrier than a 'technical' issue Mike.
I assume from your 'JetPilot' handle that you would know that most, if not all
of the 'heavy iron' use low pressure fuel pumps that are embedded into the tank
or collector tank of the fuel system. More than that, they even plan on using
the fuel passing through them both as a lubricant of the moving parts of the
pump and to cool it (the punp) as well, and also to heat the fuel which may be
cold soaked.
But of course these system are tested extensively before even getting anywhere
near an aircraft. Still, the experience of the Auto industry backs up the logic
of the application.
Still, I have certain reservations about it as you do, but then again, is it safe
to get out of bed this morning ?
David.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183518#183518
Message 3
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In this part of the world the v is correct. I have confirmed that with she
that knows best.Isnt it great that we all speek the same language..
Sometimes with other words z and s seem to get a bit confused as well.
Tony
MK111C
503
Downunder
----- Original Message -----
From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim
>
> A very handy devise>>
>
> Hi Tony,
> pursuing the semantics. Is that a typo or regular spelling. We would say
> `device`, although we may `devise` a way of doing something..
> Incidentally I notice that many on the list use `breakes` to slow their
> plane down while we would use `brakes`. Same problem?
>
> Pat
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? |
Guys=C2-
agree they are safe for their intended use but ARE! =C2-they safe for my i
ntended use ?
I'm my case the safe factor extends to reliability... =C2-In a car you jus
t pull off to the side of the road..
Given that It will be tough to tell when =C2-the Pump is running dry, =C2
-Ware on the pump is a concern...
Running Dry=C2-i would suspect will affects future reliability..
Given they weren't designed for my intended use "are they SAFE" IMO seem to
be a fair question ..
BUT i guess that's why I we fly EXPERIMENTALS=C2-HUH! 8-) hahahaha
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:38 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas?
>
> I do not like " In Tank " fuel pumps for this application, you are just
looking for problems mounting it in the tank with wires etc. Sounds like an
inflight emergency or fire waiting to happen.
>
> I use the Facet pump Jim was talking about, it transfers 6 gallons in abou
t 10
minutes, works very well, and is fool proof, and much easier to install than
some " In tank " pump.
>
> Mike
Mike,
You opine about something you are obviously NOT familiar with. There are
literally MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of in-tank fuel pumps. In fact
, it
is virtually impossible to purchase a new vehicle in the United States witho
ut
an in-tank fuel pump. 99.999% of vehicles with fuel injection come with in-
tank
fuel pumps. And you just about can't buy a car without fuel injection, and
ALL
fuel injection cars use in-tank fuel pumps!! Why?? Because they are UNSAFE
??
NO!! Because they ARE SAFE!!!
FYI, your "wires, etc." make it sound like the boogie man is going to some
how
get you. In-tank type pumps use what's known as "BRUSHLESS" motors. That m
eans
there aren't any "sparks" or "wires, etc." to create a problem.
Brushless motors use electrical current to make the rotor rotate. Not brush
es
and electrical sparking! They don't have any way on earth to create a fire
hazard. Otherwise, why would EVERY automobile manufacturer on Earth be usin
g
them??? The "wires" hook up outside the tank. There's no more likeliness o
f a
problem with these wires than with any other wiring in your plane.
Lastly, since Mark suggested he was planning to use this fuel transfer
"in-flight", he would want his fuel pick-up to be solidly mounted, at the bo
ttom
of the tank, with NO chance of shifting due to turbulence. By just insertin
g a
tube down inside a container does not insure it is going to be sucking up fu
el
correctly at the bottom of the tank. By mounting an in-tank pump PROPERLY,
the
suction point of the pump is solidly fixed in one spot, at the bottom of the
tank, surrounded by a filtering screen.
Done correctly, especially during inflight situations where you can't "jig
gle"
the suction tube, an in-tank pump can well be one of, if not THE most depend
able
pumps available! In fact, this is EXACTLY my fuel delivery arrangement for
my
GEO 1.0L fuel injected engine.
The danger is not knowing anything about the information you espouse. If
you
own a vehicle, it has an in-tank fuel pump.
Mike "Dudley" Welch
MkIII CX
_________________________________________________________________
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efresh_family_safety_052008
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Droop wingtips project |
Dudley,Nice job on the wingtips! you mentioned having trouble with the Pain
t . I have owned fiberglass fishing vessels 42 to 46 feet for 30 years and
have learned by way of bad experiences that the way to go with fiberglass i
s either GelCoat or 2 part epoxy paint Hope this helps in the future but my
praise for your win tips- is reiterated. Chris =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Origina
l Message ----=0AFrom: Dudley <airspeedx3@yahoo.com>=0ATo: kolb-list@matron
ics.com=0ASent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:02:22 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re
peedx3@yahoo.com>=0A=0AThanks for the kind words, Rick.- They were a lot
of work, but they do look beautiful, now that I'm done.- On to some more
wing stuff, finally.=0A=0ABTW, those strobe light/nav lights I mounted on t
he droop tips are for Beech Light Twins.- They are surplus Beech parts I
got off eBay.- They are something like $500 each, new.- I paid $75 each
.- The quality is exceptional!!!- I bought two sets.- One for the Kol
b.- One for my GlaStar that I'll get back to building one day (when the M
kII is flying).=0A=0AMike "Dudley"=0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A> MIKE:=0A>
=0A>- - - They may have been a pain for you to finish but they=0A> su
re do look good.- It seems like everything I do in=0A> fiberglass I later
modify or re-do.- I'm presantly=0A> building an engine cowling, for my V
W engine, and hope I=0A> only have to do it a couple of times before I get
it right.=0A>- I am also waiting on the wing tips but not in need of them
=0A> now.- I won't bug the Kolb guy's about them until=0A> there needed.
=0A> =0A>- - - - - - - - - - - - Rick Lewis- -
=0A>- - :D=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183354#183354=0A> =0A> =0A>
==================0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley or bust!! |
Greetings,
Dave got busted up awfully bad so we didn't make it to Monument Valley this
year. Dave was riding to the parade grounds at Ft. Bliss, he was to perform a
dog and pony show for the kids but his Colt was spooked and bucked him off.
The horse is used for patrolling the desert so it could have been seeing all
those soldiers that spooked him, we don't know. Dave suffered 3 broken ribs,
broken shoulder blade and a collapsed lung. He has been in a lot of pain but
until yesterday has been receiving 3 kinds of pain killers. He is recovering
in the Army hospital and hopes to go home on Monday if the tube in his lung
stops draining and can be removed.
Like Dennis said "There'll probably be a few sad Navajo kids, when they find
out that "Airplane Dave" won't be coming this year."
Every year Dave flys the local kids around the monuments, they sit along the
airport fence waiting for Dave to arrive. The kids tell Dave about folklore
that has been passed on from generations to generations. The stories take
place in remote areas on top of the monuments. The kids are the first ones in
generations to see the legendry places first hand and via an airplane no less.
Regards,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II
do not archive
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| Subject: | Monument Valley or bust!! |
Hi Will,
Very sorry to hear about Dave's mishap! Please let him know the Clayton
boys wish him a speedy recovery. See you both next year.
-Jim and John Clayton
________________________________
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
WillUribe@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley or bust!!
Greetings,
Dave got busted up awfully bad so we didn't make it to Monument Valley
this year. Dave was riding to the parade grounds at Ft. Bliss, he was to
perform a dog and pony show for the kids but his Colt was spooked and
bucked him off. The horse is used for patrolling the desert so it could
have been seeing all those soldiers that spooked him, we don't know.
Dave suffered 3 broken ribs, broken shoulder blade and a collapsed lung.
He has been in a lot of pain but until yesterday has been receiving 3
kinds of pain killers. He is recovering in the Army hospital and hopes
to go home on Monday if the tube in his lung stops draining and can be
removed.
Like Dennis said "There'll probably be a few sad Navajo kids, when they
find out that "Airplane Dave" won't be coming this year."
Every year Dave flys the local kids around the monuments, they sit along
the airport fence waiting for Dave to arrive. The kids tell Dave about
folklore that has been passed on from generations to generations. The
stories take place in remote areas on top of the monuments. The kids are
the first ones in generations to see the legendry places first hand and
via an airplane no less.
Regards,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II
do not archive
________________________________
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites
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<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Monument Valley or bust!! |
Will,
Sorry to hear about Dave, be sure to let him know we wish for a speedy
recovery. I'm sure one of the other Kolbers will do there best to try to
fill Dave's shoes.
Take care,
Bob Dalton
wiserguy@comcast.net
Kolbless
0 hours
_____
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WillUribe@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley or bust!!
Greetings,
Dave got busted up awfully bad so we didn't make it to Monument Valley this
year. Dave was riding to the parade grounds at Ft. Bliss, he was to perform
a dog and pony show for the kids but his Colt was spooked and bucked him
off. The horse is used for patrolling the desert so it could have been
seeing all those soldiers that spooked him, we don't know. Dave suffered 3
broken ribs, broken shoulder blade and a collapsed lung. He has been in a
lot of pain but until yesterday has been receiving 3 kinds of pain killers.
He is recovering in the Army hospital and hopes to go home on Monday if the
tube in his lung stops draining and can be removed.
Like Dennis said "There'll probably be a few sad Navajo kids, when they find
out that "Airplane Dave" won't be coming this year."
Every year Dave flys the local kids around the monuments, they sit along the
airport fence waiting for Dave to arrive. The kids tell Dave about folklore
that has been passed on from generations to generations. The stories take
place in remote areas on top of the monuments. The kids are the first ones
in generations to see the legendry places first hand and via an airplane no
less.
Regards,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II
do not archive
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new
<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> twists on
family favorites at AOL Food.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Aircraft are not toys |
Aircraft are not toys! They can be dangerous and should be treated as such.
While it looks fun, and it is, you need to act responsibly while
operating an aircraft of any type.
"Saftey First" - that's what comes to mind.
So I was thinking - how hard could it be to put a paintball gun on an
utralight?? The fun we could have with that!
Not so hard, I decided, after I dusted off my old sniper semi-auto rifle
downstairs.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5232234046747826901&hl=en
Film at 11:00
Not really - it think the film would be frowned on by the powers that be.
Even my wife ask "How could you do that to a buzzard?"
Actually it's easy - you just have to lead them a little more than
a goose.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft are not toys |
Yeah, I put one on my FS II about 5 years ago, just about like you did.
Worked fair out to maybe 20 yards, but the ball slowed down real fast after that
[even with the pressure cranked up all the way].
Be careful on your strafing runs..............
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 5/17/2008 6:58:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
possums@bellsouth.net writes:
So I was thinking - how hard could it be to put a paintball gun on an
utralight?? The fun we could have with that!
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft are not toys |
always thinking, eh?
I had one of those India taxi squeeze bulb horns on my old plane.
Hmmmm, whar'd I put that thing?
Better yet a compressed air truck horn.
BB
do not archive
On 17, May 2008, at 6:52 PM, possums wrote:
>
> Aircraft are not toys! They can be dangerous and should be treated
> as such.
> While it looks fun, and it is, you need to act responsibly while
> operating an aircraft of any type.
> "Saftey First" - that's what comes to mind.
>
> So I was thinking - how hard could it be to put a paintball gun on an
> utralight?? The fun we could have with that!
> Not so hard, I decided, after I dusted off my old sniper semi-auto
> rifle
> downstairs.
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5232234046747826901&hl=en
>
> Film at 11:00
> Not really - it think the film would be frowned on by the powers
> that be.
> Even my wife ask "How could you do that to a buzzard?"
> Actually it's easy - you just have to lead them a little more than
> a goose.
> <ScopeBracketMounted.jpg><BarrelSlideIn.jpg><AttachGun.jpg><SafetyWire
> .jpg><SafetyFirst.jpg>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Monument Valley or bust!! |
Greetings,
Dave got busted up awfully bad so we didn't make it to Monument Valley this year.
Dave was riding to the parade grounds at Ft. Bliss, he was to perform a dog
and pony show for the kids but his Colt was spooked and bucked him off. The
horse is used for patrolling the desert so it could have been seeing all those
soldiers that spooked him, we don't know. Dave suffered 3 broken ribs, broken
shoulder blade and a collapsed lung. He has been in a lot of pain but until yesterday
has been receiving 3 kinds of pain killers. He is recovering in the Army
hospital and hopes to go home on Monday if the tube in his lung stops draining
and can be removed.
Like Dennis said "There'll probably be a few sad Navajo kids, when they find out
that "Airplane Dave" won't be coming this year."
Will Uribe
Will,
We ( Mike Welch, Lannie, and Myron) just got back from M.V. a few minutes ago(we
drove). I was going to fly my Cessna 172, but our group grew to 4 guys, and
I can't carry that much weight.
On our way there this morning we were going to pick up a fellow pilot (older guy).
We stopped at his house in Kanab, UT, and as he was approaching the car,
he "folded" his artificial knee. Poor guy!! Standing there with his coffee,
his camera, lunch in one hand, and his cane in the other hand, and he was hurt
so bad he almost cried in pain!! He had to turn around, and slowly return limping
back into the house. Sad!!
Weather was just about perfect!! Very mild crosswind once in awhile, but mostly
just calm clear blue skies, and a gentle breeze (2-3 mph)
I was VERY much hoping to meet you and Dave, and was certainly counting on you
guys being there. I can't express how sad it makes me to hear how badly Dave
is hurt. My simpathies to him for his pain, and to both of you for not being
able to make it to M.V.
It wasn't just the Navajo kids that missed seeing you guys!!
Best regards,
Mike "Dudley" Welch
MkIIICX
Do not archive
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? |
Kolb Flyers,
I am very well aware that there are millions of in tank transfer pumps in use in
all sorts of things, including the airplanes I fly and the cars I drive. The
important fact in these vehicles is that the tanks are designed from the start
to have such a pump installed, and have very secrue mounting built in, and
the pumps and wiring are well engineered and tested for each type of tank.
If you get a plastic 5 gallon tank, and then stick a cheap ebay pump into it, fly
it in an ultralight with constant vibration and turbulence, everything changes,
you now have a fire or other problems waiting to happen.
The Facet pump I recommend is a much safer, and more reliable option used in hundreds
and hundreds of experimental / ultralight aircraft with all sorts of different
tanks. Now given the surely fatal results of an in flight fire, why would
anyone want to be the test case for an in tank pump when such a better, safe,
and well tested option is readily available ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183618#183618
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? |
> Guys
> agree they are safe for their intended use but ARE! they
> safe for my intended use ?
> I'm my case the safe factor extends to reliability...
> In a car you just pull off to the side of the road..
> Given that It will be tough to tell when the Pump is
> running dry, Ware on the pump is a concern...
Mark,
You are free to do as you please, of course, but I wouldn't give an in-tank pump's
safety a second thought.
The pump is DESIGNED to go into a container of gasoline (or diesel).
Running it dry once in awhile can't hurt it. It is just a little brushless motor.
If you ran out of gas in your car, would you fear that you are at risk??
Of course not!!
The advantage of installing the in-tank pump is that it is securely fastened
in place, by your mounting flange. It won't move, shift, unadjust, of anything
else that would cause it to not work when desired.
If you've got gas in the tank, when you flip the switch, it will transfer fuel.
It will work EVERY time. It will not blow up, nor will it be harmed to run
dry once in awhile. (I wouldn't run it dry ALL the time. It wasn't meant, nor
designed to always run dry 100% of the time). But, don't you think the Automobile
manufacturers KNEW people would run out of gas occasionally!!
And, the fact is, I have NEVER EVER seen a car fire, that was caused by the fuel
pump. Overheated engines. Yes! Electrical fires. Yes! Debri trapped under
the car, touching the exhaust. Yes! Lots of car fires. But, NONE due to having
a properly installed, properly functioning in-tank pump.
As I also stated; because I have a GEO engine, and it comes from the factory
with fuel injection, I need a high pressure fuel pump. The GEO Company installs
in-tank pumps in it's cars. That's why I have installed an in-tank pump in
my fuel tank. I have had the engine running a long time ago. Works like a champ.
No problems.
Best wishes in your decision, Mark, but I, personally, wouldn't sweat it over
an in-tank pump. I mean, after all, can a half of a BILLION cars be that unsafe??
This is just MY opinion. I am not arguing with ANYONE!!! If you have a differing
view, that's okay. I speak of my experience and opinion. Take it for what
it's worth, maybe not much.
Dudley
MkIIICX
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