---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/18/08: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:50 AM - Re: trim (pj.ladd) 2. 11:05 AM - Re: Deer and Turtles On the Runway (pj.ladd) 3. 11:13 AM - Re: Droop wingtips project (photos included, caution dial-up guys) (Ron Hoyt) 4. 12:17 PM - Re: Deer and Turtles On the Runway (pj.ladd) 5. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie (Dana Hague) 6. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (Dana Hague) 7. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (knowvne@aol.com) 8. 03:52 PM - Re: Deer and Turtles On the Runway (Russ Kinne) 9. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie (Russ Kinne) 10. 05:37 PM - Progress on my VW install (Rick Lewis) 11. 06:20 PM - VW photos test (william sullivan) 12. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie (Dana Hague) 13. 09:09 PM - Re: Progress on my VW install (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 14. 09:34 PM - Re: Firestar Project- gas tank (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 15. 11:53 PM - Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (jim) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:33 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trim BTW is a power spanner powered by mains current?Wrenches are always bigger than spanners?>> Hi Russ, this is getting out of hand. We always use `spanner`, either `open ended` or a closed `ring spanner`. Next step up would be a ratchet spanner with interchangeable size sockets. to fit various sized nuts. Next up the powered variety.Usually used at a professional level. Kiwk Fit (do you have those?) or assembly line workers or those doing a repetitive job, changind car/lorry wheels for instance. Usually compressed air driven although I believe a battery operated tool is an option. Never seen one. When sizes begin to go up we would probably use `wrench`. Particularly a Stillson Wrench which is adjustable for really heavy work. Removing lorry wheel nuts without power for instance. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:02 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deer and Turtles On the Runway say something about a turtle whistle ?>> Is this thread a gag? We don`t have turtles over here but a whistle would be the last thing I would think of for something that looks like a tortoise.. `Dashing about on the runway` I thought these things moved a foot every three hundred years. I have always associated turtles with the swimming variety. just a swimming tortoise. My solution would be a sledge hammer hanging beneath the plane and then you could fly along the runway a few feet up and knock the turtles out of the way like a croquet ball. I have the feeling that my education is going to be extended in the near future Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:32 AM PST US From: Ron Hoyt Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Droop wingtips project (photos included, caution dial-up guys) Very nice work I agree -Lots of effort Ron Dudley wrote: > > Kolb guys, and ladies. > > For those that have been paying attention, I present to > you my home-made droop tips. > I quickly state that making your own is NOT worth it!!! > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:50 PM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deer and Turtles On the Runway Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um....>> I like that. Never heard it before Pat ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:49 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie At 09:02 PM 5/16/2008, JetPilot wrote: >The term 100 LOW LEAD is outright dishonest and misleading. 100LL Avgas >has many times more lead in it than the old leaded car gas used to have. It's not dishonest or misleading at all. 100LL has about twice the lead that car gas used to have, but it wasn't intended to be compared with car gas; 100LL has less than half the lead of the 100/130 avgas it replaced. Interestingly, I just came across this: "Avgas 82 UL This is a relatively new grade aimed at the low compression ratio engines which don't need the high octane of Avgas 100 and could be designed to run on unleaded fuel. Avgas 82UL is dyed purple and specified in ASTM D 6227." (from ) Wonder if/when we'll see it? -Dana -- The difference between a hero and a fool is the outcome. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:05 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? At 12:08 AM 5/18/2008, Dudley wrote: > Running it dry once in awhile can't hurt it. It is just a little > brushless motor. If you ran out of gas in your car, would you fear that > you are at risk?? Of course not!! It depends on the pump, maybe. My Fiero has an in-tank pump, and running it dry WILL fry the pump (the plastic components will MELT). Maybe not the first time, but for sure the second or third time, Fiero owners know to avoid letting the tank get less than 1/4 full (and it's a royal PITA to replace, ask me how I know!). The pump design relies on fuel to cool it during normal operation. >And, the fact is, I have NEVER EVER seen a car fire, that was caused by >the fuel pump... True, fire or explosion inside a properly closed gas tank is almost impossible; the concentration of fuel vapor inside the tank means there isn't enough oxygen available for ignition. Still, if I was installing a fuel pump for inflight transfer, I'd use a Mikuni pulse pump outside the tank... simple, reliable, self priming, and safe -Dana -- The difference between a hero and a fool is the outcome. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? From: knowvne@aol.com Hi Mike... Honestly I'm not =C2-that worried about a fire caused by the pump.. I'm more concerned=C2-with the pump failing due to repeated ware=C2- from running=C2-it dry on previous flights...=C2- Either =C2-pump will do the job for me..... I just wanted this to be=C2 - a KISS operation... Wanted something simple I can toss in the=C2- back seat=C2-and attache to a fuel line when I need a little more range.. Thanks again.. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dudley Sent: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:08 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? > Guys=C2- > agree they are safe for their intended use but ARE! =C2-they > safe for my intended use ? > I'm my case the safe factor extends to reliability... > =C2-In a car you just pull off to the side of the road.. > Given that It will be tough to tell when =C2-the Pump is > running dry, =C2-Ware on the pump is a concern... Mark, You are free to do as you please, of course, but I wouldn't give an in-tan k pump's safety a second thought. The pump is DESIGNED to go into a container of gasoline (or diesel). Running it dry once in awhile can't hurt it. It is just a little brushless motor. If you ran out of gas in your car, would you fear that you are at ri sk?? Of course not!! The advantage of installing the in-tank pump is that it is securely fasten ed in place, by your mounting flange. It won't move, shift, unadjust, of anyth ing else that would cause it to not work when desired. If you've got gas in the tank, when you flip the switch, it will transfer fu el. It will work EVERY time. It will not blow up, nor will it be harmed to run dry once in awhile. (I wouldn't run it dry ALL the time. It wasn't meant, nor designed to always run dry 100% of the time). But, don't you think the Automobile manufacturers KNEW people would run out of gas occasionally!! And, the fact is, I have NEVER EVER seen a car fire, that was caused by the fuel pump. Overheated engines. Yes! Electrical fires. Yes! Debri trapped under the car, touching the exhaust. Yes! Lots of car fires. But, NONE due to having a properly installed, properly functioning in-tank pump. As I also stated; because I have a GEO engine, and it comes from the facto ry with fuel injection, I need a high pressure fuel pump. The GEO Company inst alls in-tank pumps in it's cars. That's why I have installed an in-tank pump in my fuel tank. I have had the engine running a long time ago. Works like a cha mp. No problems. Best wishes in your decision, Mark, but I, personally, wouldn't sweat it o ver an in-tank pump. I mean, after all, can a half of a BILLION cars be that unsafe?? This is just MY opinion. I am not arguing with ANYONE!!! If you have a differing view, that's okay. I speak of my experience and opinion. Take it for what it's worth, maybe not much. Dudley MkIIICX ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:36 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deer and Turtles On the Runway Pat In today's WAY over-reactionary US society there's probably a 'protect the turtles from sledgehammers' society. Maybe even Jane Fonda is head of it. But better check our local regs before mounting a turtle-basher. I still recall bouncing over a bunch of woodchuck-holes in Banff Canada's dirt runway. Or was it lake Louise? I forget, but the critters themselves dived out of sight in plenty of time. Turtles can't do that! But at least they taste good. Sea-turtles taste a lot better. You don't have turtles? Can't believe I never knew that; my education is vastly incomplete. What quirk of evolutionary development spared the British isles from turtles? Or did St. Patrick do some prelim training on turtles before he tackled the snakes of Ireland? Praps we can someday sit together & further both our educations over a pop or two, and even learn each other's language. Would be fun. Puzzled and Uneducated in The Colonies, but fair winds anyway, Russ do not archive On May 18, 2008, at 2:02 PM, pj.ladd wrote: > say something about a turtle whistle ?>> > > Is this thread a gag? We don`t have turtles over here but a > whistle would be the last thing I would think of for something that > looks like a tortoise.. > `Dashing about on the runway` I thought these things moved a foot > every three hundred years. > > I have always associated turtles with the swimming variety. just a > swimming tortoise. > > My solution would be a sledge hammer hanging beneath the plane and > then you could fly along the runway a few feet up and knock the > turtles out of the way like a croquet ball. > > I have the feeling that my education is going to be extended in the > near future > Cheers > > Pat > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:50 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie List, am I nuts? (questionable) -- but years ago wasn't Avgas 130 colored purple? I have no first-hand experience but am curious do not archive On May 18, 2008, at 6:22 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > > At 09:02 PM 5/16/2008, JetPilot wrote: > >> The term 100 LOW LEAD is outright dishonest and misleading. >> 100LL Avgas has many times more lead in it than the old leaded car >> gas used to have. > > It's not dishonest or misleading at all. 100LL has about twice the > lead that car gas used to have, but it wasn't intended to be > compared with car gas; 100LL has less than half the lead of the > 100/130 avgas it replaced. > > Interestingly, I just came across this: > > "Avgas 82 UL > > This is a relatively new grade aimed at the low compression ratio > engines which don't need the high octane of Avgas 100 and could be > designed to run on unleaded fuel. > > Avgas 82UL is dyed purple and specified in ASTM D 6227." > > (from aviationfuels/detail/avgasgradesspecs_10081006.html> ) > > Wonder if/when we'll see it? > > -Dana > -- > The difference between a hero and a fool is the outcome. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:57 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Progress on my VW install From: "Rick Lewis" This is an a test message to see if I've figured out how to post pictures. If the pics come through everyone can see the progress I'm making of my VW engine install in properation to make the cowling. Rick Lewis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183743#183743 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_kolb_cowling_020_180.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_kolb_cowling_003_772.jpg ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:09 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: VW photos test Rick- The pictures look good. Keep them coming. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX/447 Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:33 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 100LL long term vs. alkie At 06:54 PM 5/18/2008, Russ Kinne wrote: >List, am I nuts? (questionable) -- but years ago wasn't Avgas 130 >colored purple? I have no first-hand experience but am curious >do not archive I think it was 115/145 avgas that was purple, but yeah... the slang was "grape juice". -Dana -- Televangelists: The Pro Wrestlers of religion. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:06 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Progress on my VW install Rick, Your pics came through fine. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ Do Not Archive In a message dated 5/18/2008 8:38:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cktman@hughes.net writes: This is an a test message to see if I've figured out how to post pictures **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:41 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar Project- gas tank Bill Sullivan, I have removed the tank from my FireStar a couple of times for cleaning. I did this by cutting a hole, approximately 12" X 12", in the fabric behind the seat (the bulkhead). Then I made a light duty framework of aluminum angle and attached it in place as best I could without drilling any holes into the airframe tubing, just sort of clamped it in place. The bottom edge lies on the cross tube and the two top corners touch against the tubes that are coming up to the square cross tube.tubing at the top . Then glued the fabric onto the framework leaving a nice square hole. This opening is above the cross tube on the bulkhead and on the left side as you look from the tail forward. Can't put it on the other side because of the angled piece of airframe tubing. In order to get the tank through the hole you have to remove the long vertical aileron control rod because it is in the way. The tank can be rotated into a horizontal position and brought out through the hole. Then I made up a flat piece of sheet alum. to use as a cover for the hole, held on with velcro. Since it's located behind the seat, it's not so noticeable. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ In a message dated 5/14/2008 7:34:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, williamtsullivan@att.net writes: I was trying to cut the capacity down to 5 gallons without a major fabric job **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:51 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? From: "jim" re: Note: The pumps above do not feature an anti-siphoning valve and fuel will flow through them in event of pump failure. This is not a warning; it is a good thing. On a gravity feed carbureted engine an electric boost pump is not necessary. However, they are often installed as an emergency backup. If the boost and engine-driven fuel pumps are installed in series, you don't want the electric pump to block fuel flow if it fails. If it fails, you want it to allow fuel to get to the engine-driven pump. If installed in parallel, you would have to include a one-way check valve in the installation. -------- Jim N. 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