---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/22/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:11 AM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (Dana Hague) 2. 05:07 AM - 4 stroke in a kolb (Mark) 3. 05:48 AM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (pj.ladd) 4. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: ciikie salute! (Robert Laird) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (pj.ladd) 6. 07:05 AM - Re: Just another idea...Vtwin firestar? (Don G) 7. 08:40 AM - Re: Anybody heard from Beauford lately? (John Hauck) 8. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Anybody heard from Beauford lately? (beauford T) 9. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (knowvne@aol.com) 10. 06:34 PM - Re: 4 stroke in a kolb (Dana Hague) 11. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? (Dana Hague) 12. 06:40 PM - Re: 4 stroke in a kolb (jerb) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:10 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? At 01:23 AM 5/22/2008, possums wrote: >Only if the restriction is more than ..... 1 gallon a minute. We are only >feeding a tank here. Restriction isn't measured in flow rate; restriction produces a pressure drop at a given flow rate. At 1 gpm, the pressure drop through a 5/16" hole is the same as the head pressure of 4" (0.104psi). Thus if you have an empty tank teed into a fuel line and the tee is 4" below the liquid level in the tank, it'll start sucking air from the empty tank. At 4 gph (more reasonable), it'd take a .082 hole to get that pressure drop. Now I hope you don't have a .082 fuel passage, but all the restriction is cumulative, so if you have a long hose, a filter, some elbows and valves... I'll keep the aux tank feeding into the top of my main tank, thanks. -Dana -- Income tax: capital punishment. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:05 AM PST US From: "Mark" Subject: Kolb-List: 4 stroke in a kolb I have been working on a Generac conversion for my Ultrastar for several months now. I had to rebuild the cage and am working on a motor mount to use a direct drive version that hand props to start. There is one currently flying in a thunder gull in Illinois with 30+ hours now. The engine will weigh the same as the Cuyuna that was removed with 5 more Hp. I would have more progress,but I am taking care of a sick parent(who wants to see my lawnmower engine plane fly). Mark in Florida. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:16 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? You can ....if the tee is below the (bottom) of the tanks.>> My tanks feed fuel from the top. The air breather is also teed to both tanks and tapped into the handles. Now what? Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:58 AM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: ciikie salute! Agreed! But if I had all that going for me, I'd be grinning like a fool! I was just (jokingly) pointing out that he wasn't smiling in the ciikie (cookie) photo. (Man! I hate explaining a joke!) -- Robert On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:43 PM, possums wrote: > > At 02:40 PM 5/21/2008, you wrote: >> >> >> What I want to know is, why was John so happy? ;-) > > I'm assuming your talking about John H. > > He's single, he's retired, he get's paid every month (for serving our > country - not > enough, in my opinion) his kids, if he has any, must be grown by now, he has > a "girlfriend" > when he wants one, he plays with his airplane when the weather is good (or > not) > he plays with his tractors, he plays with his fifth wheeler, he plays > ............ what's to know? > If he gets bored he tries to kill himself by flying to Alaska and back > again. > Wish I could do what he does, but I'm too much of a pu-sy. > Or maybe I'm not old enough yet - this, like golf, seems to be an > old mans game. Good,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I've got something to look forward to! > > -- Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um.... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:50 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? Is yours a Gravity feed?>> Hi, No. Tanks are a couple of feet below the engine. Pick up is from the top of the tanks and the balancing air inlets are grommet push fit into the handles. Fuel is drawn equally from both tanks. If I add a third tank, feeding fuel into the same pick up line and adding a tee to the same air line there would be no more chance of sucking air than already exists. They will all empty together (roughly). I assume that I should have to install the tank at the same level as the existing ones? If I can do this it saves all the problems of transfer of fuel. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:47 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Just another idea...Vtwin firestar? From: "Don G" Rick, Yes you are right, induced vibration from a propeller will make any engine seem to vibrate more than with the prop off...BUT...what I am talking about here is engine vibration, generally measured in the X, Y, and Z axis on the engine only. These are much higher frequency vibes and can be very detrimental to an airframe. You simply cannot determine the vibration level of the engine with a prop...or anything attached to the pto. This has been a concern of anyone using a industrial V-twin with a redrive on it...the engine vibration. The progress of the development of any package like this must be first examined with nothing on the PTO/crank....then as you move on to attaching props and things, you discover which propmakers really know how to balance a prop...or a pulley or a shaft or a whatever the driveline consists of, and then address that separately. Then you deal with the "driveline induced vibrations" I know Buckeye has a whole pile of props from different manufacturers, they have been testing, including 2, 3 and 4 blade designs, and he did express some remorse with a particular mfgs props, saying that the differences in 6 in a row of theirs were more than the differences in all the mfgs put together! Since this tidbit is second hand information, I wont be naming names. I also know there are some really hard to track vibes that come from a prop/redrive/piston engine combination, as anyone who has fooled around with different combinations has experienced. This has to do with piston power pulses/ number of blades/ moments of inertia and prop length and reduction ratios. Some call it torsion resonance and I have heard it described a number of ways. Basically alot of fellas just lump all these things together, and call it engine vibration, but when you are trying to reduce these inertias, you must address them all separately. To speak to you wish about wishing to see it with a prop on it...I have seen it in a with only a couple of different props...some of them were smooth as silk...and some of them were just terrible! I didnt get to see the 4 blade powerfin run on it, but their description was "so shockingly smooth we couldnt believe it." BTW, for you guys thinking about the technicals of this...the redrive ratio is 2.25 to 1 and they are swinging a 2 blade 74 inch prop, among others.. -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184353#184353 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Anybody heard from Beauford lately? From: "John Hauck" Stan: Nope, but got to visit with him last month at S&F. John W and I are still in Ontario, OR. The wind is still howling at 30 to 40+ mph. Looks like it will until tomorrow morning. We are in a comfortable FBO, sleeping in our tents at night. Temps into the very low 40's. The Kolbra and mkIII are chained down on the flight line. We have had a courtesy car since we arrived, food is good, and the FBO is very friendly. Got some old characters around here refurbishing war birds and others to keep us entertained. Roger H, Grants Pass, OR, trailered his Kolb to Larry C's yesterday. The winds at Larry's, a hundred miles south, are the same ast they are here. John W and I had an exciting day flying the back country airstrips from Mackay, ID, day before yesterday. Was easy to pump adrenalin on that flight. ;-) john h mkIII - Smiling in Ontario. -------- John Hauck MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184372#184372 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:14 AM PST US From: "beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Anybody heard from Beauford lately? I'm back... been in Louisville for several weeks with my Mother, who was hospitalized with pneumonia...she's out now and doing better, thanks. While there visited my old airport hangout where I worked as a line boy in the mid 50's... Bowman Field... the oldest continuously operated airport in the United States. They have a great photo museum set up in the lobby of the old original terminal building...tons of stuff relating to WWII glider training, aeromedical evac training, etc... Shots taken at Bowman of Lindy and the Spirit, of DC-2's, Fokkers, tri-motor Stinson A's, Curtiss Condors, Lockheed Vegas, 10's, 14's and 18's...Seversky P-37's, Bell P-39's...etc. It turns out that Sidney Park, WW I pursuit pilot and later president of Park Aerial Surveys, the outfit I flew for in the mid 60's, was one of the early pioneers and founders of the Bowman airfield. Pictures of him and his planes are all over the place there. If any of you Kolbers get to Louisville, I believe you would really enjoy seeing some of the neat early aviation lore in this display. Unfortunately, I have never seen a Kolb on that airport.... may fix that problem one day. It's good to be home... now I gotta finish the annual on the FireFly... beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Anybody heard from Beauford lately? Stan: Nope, but got to visit with him last month at S&F. -------- John Hauck MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? From: knowvne@aol.com You guys are starting to make me want to intall an inflight Refuling resepti cal too.. hahahahahaha Any =C2-FAT ULs out there sporting a Tail a BOOM =C2-hahahaha 8-) Guys Im transfering 5 Gallons via a Fauset =C2-to the Main tank...8-) =C2- KI SS ...=C2- Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dana Hague Sent: Thu, 22 May 2008 7:05 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? At 01:23 AM 5/22/2008, possums wrote: Only if the restriction is more than=C2- ..... 1 gallon a minute. We are only feeding a tank here. Restriction isn't measured in flow rate; restriction produces a pressure drop at a given flow rate. At 1 gpm, the pressure drop through a 5/16" hole is the same as the head pressure of 4" (0.104psi).=C2- Thus if you have an empty tank teed into a fuel line and the tee is 4" below the liquid level in the tank, it'll start sucking air from the empty tank.=C2- At 4 gph (more reasonable), it'd take a .082 hole to get that pressure drop.=C2- Now I hope you don't have a .082 fuel passage, but all the restriction is cumulative, so if you have a long hose, a filter, some elbows and valves... I'll keep the aux tank feeding into the top of my main tank, thanks. -Dana -- =C2-Income tax: capital punishment. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:01 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 4 stroke in a kolb At 08:06 AM 5/22/2008, Mark wrote: >I have been working on a Generac conversion for my Ultrastar for several >months now. I had to rebuild the cage and am working on a motor mount to >use a direct drive version that hand props to start. There is one >currently flying in a thunder gull in Illinois with 30+ hours now. The >engine will weigh the same as the Cuyuna that was removed with 5 more Hp.... Same weight as the Cuyuna? I though the Generac conversion was around 120 lbs, isn't it? The Cuyuna is 69 without the redrive. If it's really that light it could be a great engine for that class of aircraft. Any pictures? -Dana -- "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul."-- George Bernard Shaw ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:46 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas? At 02:42 PM 5/22/2008, knowvne@aol.com wrote: >You guys are starting to make me want to intall an inflight Refuling >reseptical too.. hahahahahaha > >Any FAT ULs out there sporting a Tail a BOOM hahahaha 8-) Hah! The UltraStar has 3.5 gallons stock; my 1.5 gallon aux tank only brings me up to the legal limit... -Dana do not archive -- "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul."-- George Bernard Shaw ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:08 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 4 stroke in a kolb Hi Mark, Interesting project. Question - did your Cuyuna have any type of reduction drive - belt, gear box, etc. Problem is to get the HP your have to turn RPM - turning a prop that fast normally reduces its efficiency. Like to hear more, good or bad as you progress. I hope this works for you. I used to have a FireFly, now I presently have a Hawk flying and Gull under slooow construction. Looking for more fuel efficient engine. jerb At 07:06 AM 5/22/2008, you wrote: >I have been working on a Generac conversion for my Ultrastar for >several months now. I had to rebuild the cage and am working on a >motor mount to use a direct drive version that hand props to start. >There is one currently flying in a thunder gull in Illinois with 30+ >hours now. The engine will weigh the same as the Cuyuna that was >removed with 5 more Hp. I would have more progress,but I am taking >care of a sick parent(who wants to see my lawnmower engine plane >fly). Mark in Florida. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.