---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/17/08: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:32 AM - Re: Gouldings Lodge ultralight policies (steve0) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (Eugene Zimmerman) 3. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (william sullivan) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (william sullivan) 5. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 6. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (Dudley) 7. 09:59 AM - Re: One less hurdle (chris davis) 8. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: One less hurdle (pj.ladd) 9. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (robert bean) 10. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (Dana Hague) 11. 04:58 PM - Re: William Sullivan accident (planecrazzzy) 12. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (Flycrazy8@aol.com) 13. 06:01 PM - Re: One less hurdle (Flycrazy8@aol.com) 14. 08:10 PM - Re: One less hurdle (cristalclear13) 15. 09:13 PM - Re: gas (JetPilot) 16. 11:40 PM - Re: Re: One less hurdle (Tony Oldman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gouldings Lodge ultralight policies From: "steve0" Oh, i see ! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188247#188247 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:12 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident On Jun 17, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote: >>> I am afraid that this incident is a common thread with our planes. The weakest point is the landing gear, <<< Nope, Not the landing gear. The weakest link is always the nut that holds the stick, even with experts like John Hauck and John Williamson whose personal titanium piloting strengths far surpass that of the average Kolb pilot. Ya can't be too careful. pea nut Gene, > > the landing gear folded up to the sing strut, the plane cartwheeled > then flipped over. The plane is totaled, > > I am afraid that this incident is a common thread with our planes. > The weakest point is the landing gear, and if left stock, is going > to cause you a hell of a lot of trouble and repairs. I have had > three incidents that has illustrated this problem, and while I will > not try to tell you that my own lack of training and downright old > fashioned stupidity has not played a significant role in these > incidents, I will tell you that a lot of the damage could have been > avoided by using the steel gear legs and larger tires. The problem > is made worse by the fact that the gear legs point forward, so if a > wheel breaks off, or a alum gear leg breaks it is going to stab into > the ground, or if it just collapses then the nose is going to dig in > and things are going to get ugly pretty fast. > > Larry C, Oregon > 406 hours Firestar II > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:13 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident Hi Mike, I am Bill's wife, Norma. Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in, it was picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear folded up to the strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's are still deciding what course of treatment for him. He will be having surgery for the hip fractures, but I don't know when yet. I will keep everyone posted. Thank you for your concern, Norma planecrazzzy wrote: There's been a Kolb Firestar posted "For Sale" on this list a week ago... You could be flying it with yer cast on.... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. PS Who just said not too long ago...Planes aren't Toys .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188177#188177 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:53 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident Hi Ellery, Bill's plane cannot be rebult as far as the eye can see. But that's ok, we can buy a new one for him that has brakes! ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote: Hi Norma great to hear from you that bill will make it to fly again I wish him a speedy recovery and the same for a plane rebuild Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 6/16/2008 4:43:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, williamtsullivan@att.net writes: Hi Ralph, I am Bill's wife, Norma. Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in it was picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear folded up to the sing strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's are still deciding what course of treatment for him. You are so right about the FAA, they really have no clue. Thank you for your concern, Norma Ralph B ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution --------------------------------- Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:54 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident Norma/All Sorry to hear about Bill's accident. This is a list service so everyone gets a copy of what is posted so it is not necessary to respond to everyone individually. I find this difficult at this time but this is a teaching moment. First fast taxiing is a bad thing to do in the learning process with a Kolb. A Kolb will taxi very well and seem to be well below flying speed but will often lift off when power is reduced. Its a high thrust line pusher thing. Never fast taxi without being prepared to fly. Some people have even shortened their takeoffs by momentarily reducing power to get off the ground. Landing approaches are best done well above stall speed. An approach to landing in a 152 is much different and will not serve a new pilot well as training for a Kolb. Again approaches initially should be made a good 15+ MPH over indicated airspeed. If the strip you are learning at doesn't lend its self to this hot of a approach don't land there. Kolbs will slow down very quickly so this really will not add much to your landing distance. If the winds are gusting add the gusting speed to your approach speed. If you are just learning to fly and the winds are blowing over 5 mph or gusting you should be flying or taxiing. Sorry about the preaching. There is much more in the archives on this subject. My $.02 worth Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident Hi Mike, I am Bill's wife, Norma. Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in, it was picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear folded up to the strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's are still deciding what course of treatment for him. He will be having surgery for the hip fractures, but I don't know when yet. I will keep everyone posted. Thank you for your concern, ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:43 AM PST US From: Dudley Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident >Hi Mike, >I am Bill's wife, Norma. >Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room >to put down safely, so he went around. >Thank you for your concern, Norma Norma, (I just reread who your post was responding to...the other Mike. The re are a lot of Mikes!!!!. I thought you may have been referring to me, but I will send this email anyway, even though your response may not have dire cted at me. Mike Welch) Here was my reply. I sure hope you or Bill aren't offended by anything I've said, or implied. I certainly wasn't implying Bill threw all caution to the wind, and said "H ell, let's just see what this thing'll do!!" That's why I said "crap happens". There are a number of circumstances that can occur while beginning to operate a light plane, that place an untrained pilot in jeopardy (like gusts of wind). This is the case, in my experience ..- I, too, was doing "fast taxi's", ....lifted off...started heading for the trees, panicked, stalled, and dove in.-- (The real sadness is: I ha ve it all on video.- That way, I can go back and watch what a dumb-ass I was, just in case I forget.) "IF" I had had proper training, which I later did receive, I wouldn't have busted up my plane, or me. I am merely suggesting to others that they shoul d get the message that ALL forms of flight, whether it is a DC-3, Cessna 17 2, or an ultralight, REQUIRE formal training prior to operation. Even though Crystal recently requested "Wish me luck", for her upcoming wri tten FAA exam, she didn't score 98% from being "lucky"!! The fact is, she w as prepared, through proper training. I am sure she would tell us she was a lso "trained" (by Instructor Jim) prior to when she recently soloed her MkI I. I, for one, have sworn off all forms of luck. Luck is for when you aren't p roperly prepared. I opt for training now. That's not to say that bad things won't still happen. They surely may. But I definitely decided I don't want to rely on luck. In my humble, and healed, opinion, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS are around for a reas on. They are a necessary ingredient to safe flight. For some inexplicable r eason, some of us don't recognize that. We somehow (used to be me, included ) think flight instruction is "optional" for light planes.- Must have had my head in a dark region!! Oh, sure, there have been those "LUCKY" few that learned to fly without pro per instruction, but they are the ones who live life on the edge. Most of t he time, fate usually catches up with them, too. After I've gone to all the trouble to build my MkIII, I will seek proper fl ight instruction. I will not sit in my plane and make airplane noises, unti l an instructor thinks I'm ok to do so.- I have found the alternative to be too expensive. Best wishes to all, The Mike that's building the MkIII Classic to Xtra conversion, who recently relocated to Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri.- What's up with this humidity ??!!! - Do Not Archive =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:10 AM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: One less hurdle Cristal , You dont know me but I have been following your adventure for a w hile , Congratulations! good job , They are great aircraft , fly safe Chris =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: cristalclear13 =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, June 16, 20 08 7:29:46 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: One less hurdle=0A=0A--> Kolb-List mess age posted by: "cristalclear13" =0A=0AI passed the private pilot written exam today with a 98%.- :D =0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ado n ot archive=0A=0A--------=0ACristal Waters=0AMark II Twinstar=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Read this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php ===============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:44 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle Congratulations! Gadzooks! You are a lot prettier than most of us old codgers. Cheers Pat :-) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:28 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident Mike, I have to disagree. I firmly believe in luck. How else could I survive...... the bowling season, Luck has its place in aviation, such as what obstacles lie below when the engine gets quiet. -a very recent experience for me. First thing goes through my mind is "not again!" Then looking for the best of possibilities. BB, now cruising a little higher. :) On 17, Jun 2008, at 11:41 AM, Dudley wrote: > >Hi Mike, > > >I am Bill's wife, Norma. > >Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not > have room >to put down safely, so he went around. > >Thank you for your concern, Norma > > Norma, (I just reread who your post was responding to...the other > Mike. There are a lot of Mikes!!!!. I thought you may have been > referring to me, but I will send this email anyway, even though > your response may not have directed at me. Mike Welch) > > Here was my reply. > I sure hope you or Bill aren't offended by anything I've said, or > implied. I certainly wasn't implying Bill threw all caution to the > wind, and said "Hell, let's just see what this thing'll do!!" > That's why I said "crap happens". There are a number of > circumstances that can occur while beginning to operate a light > plane, that place an untrained pilot in jeopardy (like gusts of > wind). This is the case, in my experience. I, too, was doing "fast > taxi's", ....lifted off...started heading for the trees, panicked, > stalled, and dove in. (The real sadness is: I have it all on > video. That way, I can go back and watch what a dumb-ass I was, > just in case I forget.) > > "IF" I had had proper training, which I later did receive, I > wouldn't have busted up my plane, or me. I am merely suggesting to > others that they should get the message that ALL forms of flight, > whether it is a DC-3, Cessna 172, or an ultralight, REQUIRE formal > training prior to operation. > > Even though Crystal recently requested "Wish me luck", for her > upcoming written FAA exam, she didn't score 98% from being > "lucky"!! The fact is, she was prepared, through proper training. I > am sure she would tell us she was also "trained" (by Instructor > Jim) prior to when she recently soloed her MkII. > > I, for one, have sworn off all forms of luck. Luck is for when you > aren't properly prepared. I opt for training now. > That's not to say that bad things won't still happen. They surely > may. But I definitely decided I don't want to rely on luck. > > In my humble, and healed, opinion, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS are around > for a reason. They are a necessary ingredient to safe flight. For > some inexplicable reason, some of us don't recognize that. We > somehow (used to be me, included) think flight instruction is > "optional" for light planes. Must have had my head in a dark region!! > Oh, sure, there have been those "LUCKY" few that learned to fly > without proper instruction, but they are the ones who live life on > the edge. Most of the time, fate usually catches up with them, too. > > After I've gone to all the trouble to build my MkIII, I will seek > proper flight instruction. I will not sit in my plane and make > airplane noises, until an instructor thinks I'm ok to do so. I > have found the alternative to be too expensive. > > Best wishes to all, > The Mike that's building the MkIII Classic to Xtra conversion, who > recently relocated to Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri. What's up with > this humidity??!!! > > > Do Not Archive > > > _- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > D============ > _- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > D============ > _- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > D============ > _- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > D============ > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:19 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident At 06:10 PM 6/17/2008, robert bean wrote: >Luck has its place in aviation, such as... ... such as my airplane trailer bearing failing within 1 mile of home, and being able to limp the rest of the way, after a 500 mile round trip! But we also make our own luck, by being prepared for the unexpected. -Dana -- My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:34 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident From: "planecrazzzy" If a person "DOES" find himself flying unexpectedly.... You should do the same thing your SUPPOSED to do for the FIRST FLIGHT.... Your supposed to go above the airstrip 2000 ft or so... and APPROACH a STALL..... I didn't say stall...... you can feel it approaching... Look at the AIRSPEED.... Times this by ??? 1 and a half or so.... ( 1.3 - the book ? ) A quick figure in yer head will work... Now you know TWO THINGS.... ONE..... Don't get close to that Stall Speed.... TWO....The airspeed you should be holding on approach.... .. .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188393#188393 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:32 PM PST US From: Flycrazy8@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivan accident Norma and Bill My kindest wishes for a very speedy recovery ... My first ultralight ( Kolb Ultrastar) was almost impossible to keep on the ground while I was learning to fly it ... Bent the landing gear twice ... Sorry your experience was more painful .... Stephen Baxley Kolb Firefly _www.southernflyersul.com_ (http://www.southernflyersul.com) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:09 PM PST US From: Flycrazy8@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: One less hurdle I passed the private pilot written exam today with a 98%. :D Holy Peggy Flagstaff Batman !!!.....It's a GurLLLLLLL Pilot !!! Congratulations Cristal !!..... Way to go !!....Glad to have you as a Kolber.. Stephen Baxley Kolb Firefly _www.southernflyers.com_ (http://www.southernflyers.com) Do Not Archive **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle From: "cristalclear13" Thank you all! I'm glad I have this group (and the handful of Waycross "airport bums" friends who encouraged me to start this path and have helped so much along the way) to share my steps of progress. Most of my friends and family are NOT pilots so they don't understand the challenges of each hurdle. With each accomplishment they ask, "So do you have your license yet?" I have some time off this week and am trying to fit in as much as I can. I completed my first solo cross country today. I flew to Vidalia from Waycross (57NM one way) in the Cessna 150. My instructor wanted me to practice using VOR and ADF along the way. I don't have those in my Kolb and besides I am still trying to make sure my Kolb is running right. I'll start a separate thread to talk about that. You guys are great encouragement! Thanks! (and Pat, I think that is the first time I've ever been told I look better than an old codger...I'm going to take that as a compliment [Laughing]) do not archive -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188420#188420 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:02 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: gas From: "JetPilot" The test for ethanol is easy, I use and olive jar, but any kind of clear small jar will work... Make a line that is around 10 % of the total volume or height of the jar, the level of the line is not critical, you are just putting a little water into the jar and you will need to see the level the water was at later on. Put water in the jar up to the level of the line you made on the jar, put the lid on and go to the gas station. Select your fuel, and pump some gas into your car first. ( This clears the other grade of gas out of the hose just in case someone ahead of you had bought a grade different from what you want to test. ). Then pump a bit of gas into your jar with water, again level does not matter, but it should be mostly gas and a little water. Put the lid on and shake the jar then let settle for about a minute. Check the level of the water, if the water is at the same level it was before you put in the gas, then the gas does not have ethonal. :) If the water level is lower than your line, or gone all together after mixing with the gas and shaking the jar, then it indicates that the gas has alcohol in it ( ethanol) [Evil or Very Mad] Alcohol mixes with water and enables the water to mix with the gas making your water level go down or disappear. This is an easy test to do before driving two counties to try to find ethanol free gas. If you guys find BP premium to be ethanol free in your area also let us know ! Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188428#188428 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:11 PM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle Congratulations Cristal, it is good to see some young blood enjoying the great sport of flying. The Kolb is a great platform for viewing the world from.Like you I have many friends who dont fly or understand the flying bug. Some of them do however enjoy a fly round from time to time. In time your friends too will come to understand that we are not all crazy and our little craft are indeed safe . I am sure you will become a great ambassadore for the sport. Keep it up ,you are doing just great. Stay safe up there. Regards Tony Kolb MK111 503 400hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "cristalclear13" Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle > > > Thank you all! I'm glad I have this group (and the handful of Waycross > "airport bums" friends who encouraged me to start this path and have > helped so much along the way) to share my steps of progress. Most of my > friends and family are NOT pilots so they don't understand the challenges > of each hurdle. With each accomplishment they ask, "So do you have your > license yet?" > > I have some time off this week and am trying to fit in as much as I can. > I completed my first solo cross country today. I flew to Vidalia from > Waycross (57NM one way) in the Cessna 150. My instructor wanted me to > practice using VOR and ADF along the way. I don't have those in my Kolb > and besides I am still trying to make sure my Kolb is running right. I'll > start a separate thread to talk about that. > > You guys are great encouragement! Thanks! (and Pat, I think that is the > first time I've ever been told I look better than an old codger...I'm > going to take that as a compliment [Laughing]) > > do not archive > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Mark II Twinstar > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188420#188420 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.