---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/19/08: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:11 AM - Re: Un-gusts (David Lucas) 2. 06:32 AM - Re: Un-gusts (Russ Kinne) 3. 06:32 AM - Re: William Sullivans Accident (robert bean) 4. 06:53 AM - Re: Un-gusts (Jim Kmet) 5. 07:03 AM - Bill Sullivan's Accident (edharvey1@juno.com) 6. 07:08 AM - Re: Un-gusts (Jack B. Hart) 7. 07:36 AM - Re: William Sullivans Accident (JetPilot) 8. 07:46 AM - Re: Bill Sullivan's Accident (JetPilot) 9. 07:53 AM - Re: Un-gusts (Larry Cottrell) 10. 08:19 AM - Re: Bill Sullivan's Accident (Carlos) 11. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Bill Sullivan's Accident (Russ Kinne) 12. 08:43 AM - Re: William Sullivans Accident (LEE CREECH) 13. 08:59 AM - Re: William Sullivans Accident (Ralph B) 14. 09:16 AM - Re: Crow Hopping -- was WSullivan's accident (Ralph B) 15. 09:37 AM - Re: Crow Hopping (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 16. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: William Sullivans Accident (robert bean) 17. 10:54 AM - Re: Bill Sullivan's Accident (JetPilot) 18. 11:57 AM - Learning to fly the proper way!! (Dudley) 19. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: One less hurdle (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 20. 01:28 PM - Re: Learning to fly the proper way!! (planecrazzzy) 21. 01:30 PM - Re: William Sullivans Accident (grantr) 22. 02:48 PM - Doing it the proper way!! (Dudley) 23. 03:25 PM - Re: Doing it the proper way!! (planecrazzzy) 24. 04:09 PM - Information on Mark III and Kolbra (William and/or Justina Fyfe) 25. 04:49 PM - Re: William Sullivans Accident (Jack B. Hart) 26. 05:04 PM - Randolph County Airport Fly-in Newspaper Article (Jack B. Hart) 27. 05:11 PM - Re: Un-gusts (gary aman) 28. 05:21 PM - Re: Un-gusts (gary aman) 29. 05:25 PM - Re: Randolph County Airport Fly-in Newspaper Article (beauford T) 30. 05:31 PM - Re: One less hurdle (cristalclear13) 31. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: William Sullivans Accident (gary aman) 32. 09:04 PM - Re: Un-gusts (possums) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Un-gusts From: "David Lucas" Reminds me of a story of a young WWI pilot who crashed his Bi-Plane on Take-Off. The ensuing 'Inquiry' found him guilty of poor technique and both grounded and demoted him. His appeal's to his superiors established a review committee that quashed the initial finding and instead attributed the accident to attempting a take off in meteorological conditions when there was no 'lift' in the air. His demotion was canceled and he was restored to flying status forthwith. The review committee also took the opportunity of congratulating the pilot on the occasion of his engagement to the commanders daughter. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more !) David. :-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188570#188570 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:27 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts Wind shear is quite different! But can also cause an unexpected drop in airspeed do not archive On Jun 18, 2008, at 10:02 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: > I think the term is "wind shear". > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dana Hague > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts > > At 08:55 PM 6/18/2008, David Key wrote: > >> ...Un-Gusts LOL!! I'm still cracking up.... > > OK, fine. "The airplane was flying just above stall speed when a > brief lull in the otherwise steady wind put him below stall > speed..." Simpler to call it, as sailors do, a "non puff" (as > opposed to a puff). I called it an un gust because fliers don't > use the term "puff" much. Doesn't matter what you call it, the > phenomenon is real. > > -Dana > > > -- > When you get it right > mighty beasts float up into the sky > When you get it wrong > people die > > -Roger Bacon (c1384) > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:28 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: William Sullivans Accident -So THAT'S what the hole under the nose of the hawk is for. The generous FAA inspector who breezed my inspection countered with a requirement that, instead of using my own strip, I had to haul it to one 15 miles away for the 40 hour fly-off. ( Less houses to fall on). Driving that 15 miles on a flyable morning was a stomach churning experience. By the time I got there the butterflies were attacking my guts bigtime. BB do not archive On 18, Jun 2008, at 10:25 PM, possums wrote: > I remember wearing the brakes out on my CGS Hawk, taxing it up and > down > the runway (back in 1983) before I ever flew it. I did solo in a > Cessna 150 after 4 hours and > spent about 2 hours in a two-seat QuickSilver so I had some > training. I can only see out of one eye, > but I discovered that wasn't nearley the problem I though it would be. > My fricking "Dealer" lived about 40 miles north of me and never > could find the time to come look at the plane to see if it > was built according to the plans. If you guys think "Kolb" plans > have some deficiencies, > you should have seen mine and if you think Kolbs are hard to > build...I was not even sure > if the wings were upside down or not. > Anyway - he told me that if I would fly it up to his place, he > would take a good look at it > and make sure everything was OK. Back then, the Ultralight > factories were going full bore, and the > market was awash with new designs. And "knockoffs of new designs, > and knockoffs of the knockoffs. > Somebody would bring a new one up every two or three weeks, put it > together & try to fly it > the next day. There were plans with bicycle wheels for landing gear > & worse - neat. > So mine (being the state-of -the-art) looked pretty good. Back > then, (state of the art) meant > double surfaced wings, ailerons (not spoilers) and mine even had > flaps!! > All that being said, I had everyone at the airport help me go over > the plane before it's first flight. > I don't care who you are - that is always scary. They would find > things like missing bolts, missing > nuts, missing cotter pins ...etc. Things that would make the > aircraft difficult or interesting to handle under any > circumstances. > > If William would have been flying with us back then he would have > fit right in. Just kidding. > You just started 20 years too late William. > > BTW: I did get there, manage to land and get back. Cheated death > again. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:20 AM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts In 26 years of reading all sorts of magazines, catalogs, training material s, Practical Test Standards, Advisory Circulars, & Accident reports, I`m la ughing at this term, un-gust, cuz I`ve never heard of it before.To me, un-g ust is the equivalent of "Suck". Jim "delete button" Kmet Cookeville, TN MK-3C Kolbra Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Kinne To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts Wind shear is quite different! But can also cause an unexpected drop in airspeed do not archive On Jun 18, 2008, at 10:02 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: I think the term is "wind shear". Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Dana Hague To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts At 08:55 PM 6/18/2008, David Key wrote: ...Un-Gusts LOL!! I'm still cracking up.... OK, fine. "The airplane was flying just above stall speed when a bri ef lull in the otherwise steady wind put him below stall speed..." Simpler to call it, as sailors do, a "non puff" (as opposed to a puff). I called it an un gust because fliers don't use the term "puff" much. Doesn't matte r what you call it, the phenomenon is real. -Dana -- When you get it right mighty beasts float up into the sky When you get it wrong people die -Roger Bacon (c1384) href="http://www.matronics..com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics..com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Bill Sullivan's Accident From: edharvey1@juno.com There may be an additional casualty in Bill's accident: town officials have advised us that they are reviewing the advisability of renewing our lease in view of our unsafe and irresponsible flying practices. We are finding it difficult to defend against charges that are essentially true. So it may be that the countless hours of effort over the past 5 years to convert this remote, decommissioned landfill into a viable, active ultralight airstrip may all be forfeited. We should know for sure in a few weeks. Ed Harvey Firefly038/447/IVO Silver Wings Ultralight Club Palmer. MA. ____________________________________________________________ Enter for Your Chance to WIN* The TotalBeauty.com Summer Spa Sweepstakes! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7UfiLLTF1pBXrFC11loMrl7488ZqBHAz81BvS7fBk3em7dr/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:46 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts Kolbers, Here is the FAA's definition of wind shear: http://www.alphatrainer.com/handouts/new%20learning/FAA-H-8083-25/pg_10-9.pdf Glider pilots are very familiar with wind shear. Google did not reveal a FAA definition of "un-gust" or "ungust" Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivans Accident From: "JetPilot" It is true about the gusts of wind, it is possible to be flying along and suddenly lose 10 MPH of airspeed due to a gust from behind, or suddenly loosing a gust that is coming from the front. If you are flying a slow approach within 10 MPH of stall speed, you will suddenly find yourself stalled very close to the ground. Downdraft's do not occur close to the ground unless there is some extraordinary circumstance like high wind next to a hanger, or a bad thunderstorm in the area... 10 MPH gusts are very common, even on a nice day. It is a good idea to keep approach speeds very high, especially in ultralight aircraft like the Kolbs. In a new type of airplane far different than he has ever flown before, without an airspeed indicator, William did not have much of a chance. Don't give up on Kolbs's William, they are pretty easy to fly with a little bit of instruction in this type of plane and an airspeed indicator !!! Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188589#188589 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Bill Sullivan's Accident From: "JetPilot" edharvey1(at)juno.com wrote: > > town > officials have advised us that they are reviewing the advisability of > renewing our lease in view of our unsafe and irresponsible flying > practices. We are finding it difficult to defend against charges that are > essentially true. > Ed Harvey > With that attitude you deserve to be closed down. Does one accident mean that you all are engaging in "unsafe and irresponsible flying practices" ? So next time some new driver crashes his car in down, you would say that people are driving recklessly and that streets should be blocked off to traffic ? So tell me when does one accident by a new pilot make this " Essentially True " as you have stated ? Ed, grow some balls and stand up for yourself. With statements like your just made here, is it any wonder they want to close you down ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188590#188590 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:18 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts > > Google did not reveal a FAA definition of "un-gust" or "ungust" > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > do not archive It is fairly obvious why you fellas are having trouble finding anything on "Un-Gust". You are looking in the wrong part of the regs. You should look under "D" for Dis-gust. That is what happens when you are flying into a headwind that suddenly abandons you and leaves you hanging rather than flying. Larry C Firestar II 409 hours ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:30 AM PST US From: "Carlos" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bill Sullivan's Accident Hi Ed, I suspect that until the accident, your airstrip was "Under the Radar" of those helpful folks who see every open space as a spot that needs a house on it. Now that it has been discovered it will be only a matter of time before some developer convinces the city fathers that here is a city revenue making opportunity by allowing the property to to sprout houses... and that it would eliminate any liabilities of a aircraft operation. So who do you think will win this argument? Sorry to hear about your situation, Carlos G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:57 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Bill Sullivan's Accident > > There may be an additional casualty in Bill's accident: town > officials have advised us that they are reviewing the advisability of > renewing our lease in view of our unsafe and irresponsible flying > practices. We are finding it difficult to defend against charges that are > essentially true. > So it may be that the countless hours of effort over the past 5 > years to convert this remote, decommissioned landfill into a viable, > active ultralight airstrip may all be forfeited. We should know for sure > in a few weeks. > > Ed Harvey > Firefly038/447/IVO > Silver Wings Ultralight Club > Palmer. MA. > > ____________________________________________________________ > Enter for Your Chance to WIN* > The TotalBeauty.com Summer Spa Sweepstakes! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7UfiLLTF1pBXrFC11loMrl7488ZqBHAz81BvS7fBk3em7dr/ > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:32 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Bill Sullivan's Accident This is NO time to dump on Ed Harvey, Bill Sullivan, and their flying friends. The group is just trying to stay alive! -- and the 'town officials' may not know anything about flying. In that case, they often decide "It's easier to say no" and close it down . Worth trying to educate them a little but it's gotta be positive manner, emphasizing that pilots fly safely but are at the mercy of weather conditions -- even big airliners There's no comparison with driving. We kill a thousand people a week on the roads but no one says 'Stop driving". I wonder if EAA, AOPA, USUA or some other group can help? This isn't the first time this has happened, and they may have some good advice. do not archive On Jun 19, 2008, at 10:44 AM, JetPilot wrote: > > > edharvey1(at)juno.com wrote: >> >> town >> officials have advised us that they are reviewing the advisability of >> renewing our lease in view of our unsafe and irresponsible flying >> practices. We are finding it difficult to defend against charges >> that are >> essentially true. >> Ed Harvey >> > > > With that attitude you deserve to be closed down. Does one > accident mean that you all are engaging in "unsafe and > irresponsible flying practices" ? So next time some new driver > crashes his car in down, you would say that people are driving > recklessly and that streets should be blocked off to traffic ? > So tell me when does one accident by a new pilot make this " > Essentially True " as you have stated ? > > Ed, grow some balls and stand up for yourself. With statements > like your just made here, is it any wonder they want to close you > down ? > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188590#188590 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:13 AM PST US From: LEE CREECH Subject: RE: Kolb-List: William Sullivans Accident Good point Dana makes about slow airplanes -- I think the implication is th at the oft-cited "1.3 times stall speed" rule of thumb for approach speed m ay not be enough, since that point-three margin is not very many MPH when y ou stall at 35! Regarding the "low inertia of such a light plane", though -- I would have t hought that's an asset rather than a liability in that situation, since it allows the plane to accelerate more quickly to regain the airspeed that's l ost when an "un-gust" or decreasing headwind is encountered. Wrong? Regards to all, Lee Firestar II ague@comcast.netSubject: Re: Kolb-List: William Sullivans AccidentBill,Firs t, I'm glad you're OK (more or less). Bad as it was, it could have been a lot worse!Unless you're in rotor behind obstacles, you won't find downdraft s at 15'. What you _will_ find is gusts or "un gusts", which can quickly r educe your airspeed from something above stall to below stall... and you dr op. This may have been what happened. I the aircraft you previously flew, the higher stall speed means such an effect is a smaller percentage of the stall speed, so it's less likely to be a problem. However, if you're appr oaching at 35 mph in an airplane that stalls at 30, and you get a 10 mph un -gust... well, you get the picture. Add to this the inoperative ASI, the t endency of the plane to pitch up when you reduce power and the low inertia of such a light plane, and it's even worse. That's why in an ultralight yo u don't just "fly the plane to the ground", but (to the perspective of a pi lot with GA experience) you literally DIVE the plane at the runway.Anyway, I hope you recover soon, and get to work rebuilding or shopping for another or whatever makes sense, so we can fly together.-Dana _________________________________________________________________ The i=92m Talkathon starts 6/24/08.- For now, give amongst yourselves. http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivans Accident From: "Ralph B" After flying a Firestar for 21 years, a smooth landing can be accomplished every time by actually diving the plane toward the runway. I use a 60 mph approach speed at about 3500 RPM. This sounds hot and it is, but remember that a Firestar is light with a lot of drag that dissipates quickly. Cut the power just before touchdown (novices should keep the power on until the aircraft is on the ground and rolling). There is a technique to it and it takes practice. After flying the Kolbra (591 lbs) for a few hours, I don't need to dive the plane down as it has a lot more weight and inertia. The Firestar needs that airspeed to punch through wind gusts and lifting thermals. Bill Sullivan was the victim of a lack of airspeed. Without experience and no ASI he was setup for failure. The Kolbs are one the safest aircraft to fly, but it takes some good training and practice to make a good landing. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 21 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 0 years flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188604#188604 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crow Hopping -- was WSullivan's accident From: "Ralph B" We all have opinions on crow-hopping when learning to fly. I agree with Lucien as it's a setup for a crash. The problem is that a Kolb will hop into the air too quickly and catch the pilot by surprise. When this happens, the pilot cuts the throttle, stalls the plane, and down she goes very hard. This is classic and I have heard many a Kolb pilot hurt or crash their planes this way. Once I test flew an Ultrastar for a guy. After I was done with it, I told him that if he got into the air, to give it throttle and go for it. He took off and chopped the throttle (just what I told him not to do). I witnessed an accident that day. He wasn't hurt, but the Ultrastar was. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 21 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 0 years flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188607#188607 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:20 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Crow Hopping Ben Its almost always good to to hear from you. On this subject again I disagree. I have been flying my VW powered MKIIIC for ten+ years and apparently not as skilled a pilot as you. Last year when I got my newest reduction drive I wanted to test it without actually committing aviation so I decided to crow hop. I had tied the plane down and did a full power run up but. My strip is only 1400 ft so gentle power changes would not get me airborne AND stopped by the end of the strip. I was shocked. I would full power run up to flying speed then pull power back with the intent of flying a few feet off the ground. Wow. I pride myself on balancing power down pitch down power up pitch up in the air but a few feet off the ground the skill level needs to be very very high. I only did this a few times before I decided that this was much more dangerous than just flying this preproduction redrive. I noticed that you practiced crow hops in a Two place Phantom. For those that aren't familiar with it I will note that it is tractor configuration. I have never flown one but I suspect that it is much more docile in the crow hop maneuver. I agree that if a crow hop is done power changes should be made VERY minor. Also on a 5,000 to 10000 foot grass strip where a new pilot will not feel rushed. Remember your are recommending this to a new pilot. Gentle on the controls will come with time. Again I recommend that crow hops should never be done is a Kolb. A Kolb is a very good airplane but like all airplanes there are some things that you shouldn't do and this is one of them. I do agree that learning balanced usage of the controls is a very good thing but not close to the ground where you have no room for error. Its somewhat like learning to drive a car on ice. My dad took me to a big open parking lot where there was plenty of room for error. Crow hopping is like learning ice driving on a crowded city street. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ransom" Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Crow Hopping -- was WSullivan's accident > > Although it's as old as Seafoam discussions, I dare post my own opinion > again on "crow hopping". It's probably 10 years, so what the heck, here > it is. I am a proponent of them, in ultralights, if done after dual > training in a like aircraft. > > Crow hopping has two key pieces: Foremost is getting there in baby steps. > Second, keep a mindset of very minor throttle changes, whether they be > increase or decrease in rpm, and similarly, stay with minimal stick pitch > changes. And I'm talking dual here!! > > I had 4.5 hours of transition training in a 2-place phantom many years > ago. Most of that was crow hops, which started out as taxi, then fast > taxi, etc. By hour 3 I would go down the runway just at flying speed, > jockeying all 4 control inputs as needed. Important too, no wind until I > was pretty good at it. I did a lot of flight with wheels 0 to 2ft AGL. No > sudden moves, no surprises. Guess what, I got darn good at controlling > the plane in that configuration, even adding in wind. When it came time > to test fly my never before flown Firestar, I was confident of being able > to handle transition issues near the ground. > I'm posting just for the record that there are at least some (or at least > one ;) ) who maintain that learning crow hopping properly is a good > thing. Flying at altitude -- that's a lot simpler, and should be > optional. > > -Ben/ KXP > > ps: All the best to you William -- get well soon. > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:28 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivans Accident My MkIII is just as fat and heavy with the resultant inertia. Carrying power all the way in is enticing because it is easier. I do it myself but actually, cutting power out on long final or even the end of downwind is really good practice. It makes you more aware of wind and rate of descent. BB still windy, car painting. On 19, Jun 2008, at 11:56 AM, Ralph B wrote: > > After flying a Firestar for 21 years, a smooth landing can be > accomplished every time by actually diving the plane toward the > runway. I use a 60 mph approach speed at about 3500 RPM. This > sounds hot and it is, but remember that a Firestar is light with a > lot of drag that dissipates quickly. Cut the power just before > touchdown (novices should keep the power on until the aircraft is > on the ground and rolling). There is a technique to it and it takes > practice. After flying the Kolbra (591 lbs) for a few hours, I > don't need to dive the plane down as it has a lot more weight and > inertia. The Firestar needs that airspeed to punch through wind > gusts and lifting thermals. Bill Sullivan was the victim of a lack > of airspeed. Without experience and no ASI he was setup for > failure. The Kolbs are one the safest aircraft to fly, but it takes > some good training and practice to make a good landing. > > Ralph > > -------- > Ralph B > Original Firestar 447 > N91493 E-AB > 21 years flying it > Kolbra 912UL > N20386 > 0 years flying it > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188604#188604 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:19 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Bill Sullivan's Accident From: "JetPilot" I am not jumping on Bill Sullivan or any of their friends, I am jumping on ONE GUY - Ed Harvey, and it is well deserved. Making a statement like Ed Harvey did: " We are finding it difficult to defend against charges that are essentially true. " Is nothing short of asking to have your field closed down. The fact that a a new guy got into an accident is nothing new, it happens all the time in any sport... To go around saying that the accusations of " Unsafe and irresponsible flying practices are essentially true " is nothing short short of asking for the land to be taken away... So Russ, this is exactly the time to be jumping all over Ed, before starts making statements like this in more public places. My post is directed at ONE GUY not the rest of the group as you so incorrectly stated. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188632#188632 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:23 AM PST US From: Dudley Subject: Kolb-List: Learning to fly the proper way!! - - Gentlemen (and ladies, too), - --- Seeing as how I have NOT flown a Kolb yet, I must say I haven't g ot a clue as to what the best way to learn to fly a Kolb is!!- I have tra ined for about 15 hours in a 2-seat Quicksilver.- We did NOT do any "crow hops", though. - --- I think IF it were me that needed to learn to fly a Kolb (and I d o), I would be most willing to take the advice a Certified Flight Instructo r (or at least a competent pilot that flies the plane I'm wanting to learn in).- Many of you that hand out advice assume all kinds of experience lev els from the guys that read your posts.- Maybe "some" of the pilots could crow hop...and do just fine!!- And maybe this advice to others is a deat h sentence. - --- As I said previously, I have spent way too much time and money bu ilding my Kolb MkIII to take a chance at successfully flying my plane.- I will increase my chances at success by getting flight instruction.--Ho w some of you leave this advice out baffles me.- - --- It would seem to me the only thing you should advise an untrained pilot is to seek out his local flight instructor....period!! - --- Having made the huge mistake of thinking I could learn on my own has taught me I don't know near as much as I thought I knew.- For me, I w ill seek the advice a Flight Instructor-to teach me-how to fly a Kolb. - Thank you!! - Mike Welch Kolb MkIII, -that I only want to build once. - PS.- Notice I didn't condemn crow hops.- My position is; AFTER-an ins tructor has seen MY skill level, and HE thinks it's okay, -then I would t ry them (if ever).- Not before!! - Do Not Archive - - -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:33 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle Cristal It's great to hear about getting your pilots license. It's a lot of work. Today we hear of to many that are continuing to fly illegally without a license. And a few that try to fly with almost no training and hurt them selves. Keep us informed of your progress. I wonder about your instructor wanting you to practice ADF and VORs. It surprises me that these instruments are still in airplanes. Are you getting GPS training or glass cockpits? I suppose you still had to learn to decode weather briefings for your written. Check out Pilot-Mycast for your cell phone. There is everything you can get from a weather briefer direct, graphic and decoded. Also are you able to get flight training in something closer to a Kolb. Are you going to fly off some of your hours in your Kolb? Be real careful letting a GA instructor fly your plane or instruct in it. Pilots used to the big heavies don't do well in a Kolb. The CFI instructor for Old Kolb told me his most difficult students were long time GA pilots and instructors. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "cristalclear13" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:07 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle > > > Thank you all! I'm glad I have this group (and the handful of Waycross > "airport bums" friends who encouraged me to start this path and have > helped so much along the way) to share my steps of progress. Most of my > friends and family are NOT pilots so they don't understand the challenges > of each hurdle. With each accomplishment they ask, "So do you have your > license yet?" > > I have some time off this week and am trying to fit in as much as I can. > I completed my first solo cross country today. I flew to Vidalia from > Waycross (57NM one way) in the Cessna 150. My instructor wanted me to > practice using VOR and ADF along the way. I don't have those in my Kolb > and besides I am still trying to make sure my Kolb is running right. I'll > start a separate thread to talk about that. > > You guys are great encouragement! Thanks! (and Pat, I think that is the > first time I've ever been told I look better than an old codger...I'm > going to take that as a compliment [Laughing]) > > do not archive > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Mark II Twinstar > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188420#188420 > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly the proper way!! From: "planecrazzzy" If you go the "legal" route.... Your "Primary Inspector" from the FAA , will give you all the hoops you need to fly your plane.... You'll need a Private or sport... You'll need Airworthiness He'll have gone over your Weight and Balance... And he'll tell you he wants it in the FRONT 51% of the CG RANGE ( Better recovery ) You'll need a Tailwheel endorsment ( Around 10 hrs ) Then , Last but not least , you'll need 5 hrs in a "LIKE" aircraft ( varys ) I SWEAR .... If you do all of this , You will have NO PROBLEM flying your plane.... ( Just give it extra Left Rudder on take-off ) .. .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. .. Note: My First Flight....I got off the ground about 10'.... "Felt" the plane....it was fine, Started adding more power and climbed out.... Flew above the airstrip...approched Stall.... entered a Left Pattern...Landed... Took aprox 15 min....Non eventful .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188663#188663 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00343_828.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00341_175.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00338_112.jpg ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:26 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivans Accident From: "grantr" My Mark III weights 425# empty. All of our landings are done at idle from the base leg to touchdown. I only add power if I am coming up short or wind interferes. My indicated stall is 46mph my normal approach is 65mph or about 1.4X stall. In rough air with plenty or rotor at the end of the runway I have pushed 70 and 75mph on the approach to cut through the crap. It seems to work fine. All of my training has involved making approaches and landings at idle. The Mk III actually floats down the runway a fair distance before touching the tail wheel 1stwith the 65mph approach. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188664#188664 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:06 PM PST US From: Dudley Subject: Kolb-List: Doing it the proper way!! > You'll need a Private or sport... - - Got it!! - > You'll need Airworthiness - Working on it...got the paperwork! - > He'll have gone over your Weight and Balance... And he'll tell you he wan ts it in the FRONT 51% of the CG RANGE ( Better recovery ) - Yup!! -> You'll need a Tailwheel endorsement ( Around 10 hrs ) - Okay. - > Then , Last but not least , you'll need 5 hrs in a "LIKE" aircraft ( vari es ) - Can we log this simultaneous in the "Tailwheel endorsement plane"? - > I SWEAR .... If you do all of this , You will have NO PROBLEM > flying your plane.... ( Just give it extra Left Rudder on take-off ) As it should be!!!!- Good advice.- I shall follow it.-- Mike Welch > Gotta Fly... > Mike & "Jaz" in MN =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:36 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Doing it the proper way!! From: "planecrazzzy" More than likely... When you get a GA Tailwheel endorsement.... The closest thing would probably be a J-3 That's NOT a "LIKE" aircraft... The plane "I" got mine done in was a two seat "T-Bird" Close enough.... it was a pusher... I got my endorsement in a PA-12.....it was fun.. One day "it" was down..., We went up in the J-3. it was fun , but I was up there for business... I was a little cramped and I had to "Perform" Short take-off or landings...and other maneuvers "I" was too cramped in the J-3....it was a waste of time for me....(6' 1") One other note... At the FAA place , you should also get the book (free) AC NO: 90-89A....This is the Test Flight Handbook... It explains what your first 40 hrs of flying should be covering.... >From Airport selection.... to everything else... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188679#188679 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2nd_flight_cambridge_airport_3000agl_128.jpg ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:49 PM PST US From: "William and/or Justina Fyfe" Subject: Kolb-List: Information on Mark III and Kolbra ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:46 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: William Sullivans Accident Subject: Kolb-List: Randolph County Airport Fly-in Newspaper Article Kolbers, I was interviewed for the local newpaper during the fly-in. The article came out today. I asked for an email copy of it and I put it up at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly141.html I thought you may enjoy it. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:21 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts Possum, We could start a new thread here ( and leave William alone for a while) .I'll start it with; :you call that a postage stamp?I've seen aircraft carriers smaller than that! ----- Original Message ---- From: possums Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:55:53 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts I have to land on this postage stamp every time I fly (at least 1,400 landings here - so far). Only one way out and in. (Always land up hill) and we got trees at the north end anyway. I learned a long time ago that if I have a 10 mph headwind while landing, I add 10 mph to the landing speed because it's going to "ungust" or quit when I get below the trees. BUT I hate the south/tail winds the most. You still have to add speed to the landing so you don't have loose controls (that adds 10 mph for the wind & 10 mph for what you added - VGs are nice) . We are not allowed a "bounce" with downwind landings. These Kolbs are like a horse, you've got to have enough wind going over the surfaces to make it do what you want it to do. If you want that left wing up, you better have wind going over it to make it do what you want it to do. Called "Horsing it in". http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=263159682459782825&hl=en ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:11 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts Lar, I'll buy your first book.Wish you were my neighbor Do not archivre. ----- Original Message ---- From: Larry Cottrell Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:50:40 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts > > Google did not reveal a FAA definition of "un-gust" or "ungust" > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > do not archive It is fairly obvious why you fellas are having trouble finding anything on "Un-Gust". You are looking in the wrong part of the regs. You should look under "D" for Dis-gust. That is what happens when you are flying into a headwind that suddenly abandons you and leaves you hanging rather than flying. Larry C Firestar II 409 hours ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:03 PM PST US From: "beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Randolph County Airport Fly-in Newspaper Article Brother Hart: Best thing I've read on the internet in a coon's-age... The part she wrote about "spinning around" was right on... I can identify with it... Good on 'ya... keep 'er flying... Beauford FF 076 - N173BW Brandon, FL Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack B. Hart" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Randolph County Airport Fly-in Newspaper Article Kolbers, I was interviewed for the local newpaper during the fly-in. The article came out today. I asked for an email copy of it and I put it up at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly141.html I thought you may enjoy it. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:47 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle From: "cristalclear13" Thanks Rick, I received my Kolb training from Jim Kmet, an experienced Kolb pilot and an excellent CFI. Since he signed me off, I AM flying off some of my required solo hours in my Kolb. I find learning about and becoming very familiar with every available resource, even if it is "old-fashioned", is well worth it. It's good to have a back-up. (You never know when some crazy country will decide to blow up our GPS satellites, right? - wouldn't that cripple a lot of people...not just pilots.) I can use and operate my husband's GPS. It is a small one and doesn't have many features but it would tell me what direction I'm flying and where I've been. I will learn more advanced GPS when I can afford to buy one. My current instructor is training me in a 1977 Cessna 150. I began learning to fly with just the intention of going up and seeing the view, which my Kolb serves that purpose, but I'm not ruling out the possibility of one day renting a Cessna and taking a little trip or taking up a few friends and family. My Mark II will only take a 200 lb passenger (I have many family and friends larger than that) and even then the passenger seat is very small and cramped such that even a 160 lb passenger might be uncomfortable. After I had some Kolb training, but before I got my sign off some older pilots hanging around the airport urged me to fast taxi or do crow hops, but luckily one of my mentors there said, "That is too dangerous" and proceeded to explain why. The others would have had me believe that fast taxiing or crow hopping (without further training) would be a good thing. I suppose those are the same type of people who would throw me in a pool saying, "Sink or swim". Isn't that what they used to do in the "old days"? Hindsight is much easier than foresight and it's easy for people to say, "You shouldn't have done that...that was too dangerous." It might even be the same people who told you to do it! Sometimes an action can seem very logical and practical at the time and unless you have someone around who has been there...done that or perhaps even heard about the dangers of doing something, you may very well do something dangerous and sometimes you may make it through ok, and sometimes not. I just pray that I'll always have someone around who's "been there, done that" and that I'll have the ears to listen. Thanks, Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > Cristal > > It's great to hear about getting your pilots license. It's a lot of work. > Today we hear of to many that are continuing to fly illegally without a > license. And a few that try to fly with almost no training and hurt them > selves. Keep us informed of your progress. > > I wonder about your instructor wanting you to practice ADF and VORs. It > surprises me that these instruments are still in airplanes. Are you getting > GPS training or glass cockpits? I suppose you still had to learn to decode > weather briefings for your written. Check out Pilot-Mycast for your cell > phone. There is everything you can get from a weather briefer direct, > graphic and decoded. > > Also are you able to get flight training in something closer to a Kolb. Are > you going to fly off some of your hours in your Kolb? Be real careful > letting a GA instructor fly your plane or instruct in it. Pilots used to the > big heavies don't do well in a Kolb. The CFI instructor for Old Kolb told me > his most difficult students were long time GA pilots and instructors. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > > > --- -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188700#188700 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:40 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivans Accident Grant, My MK-3 weighs 623 empty and stalls below 30 (with vg's) and just me 170# in it.I'd almost bet you have some error in your indicated airspeed.65 is my economy cruise speed! ----- Original Message ---- From: grantr Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:28:10 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: William Sullivans Accident My Mark III weights 425# empty. All of our landings are done at idle from the base leg to touchdown. I only add power if I am coming up short or wind interferes. My indicated stall is 46mph my normal approach is 65mph or about 1.4X stall. In rough air with plenty or rotor at the end of the runway I have pushed 70 and 75mph on the approach to cut through the crap. It seems to work fine. All of my training has involved making approaches and landings at idle. The Mk III actually floats down the runway a fair distance before touching the tail wheel 1stwith the 65mph approach. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188664#188664 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:26 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Un-gusts At 08:08 PM 6/19/2008, you wrote: >Possum, > We could start a new thread here ( and leave William alone for a > while) .I'll start it with; :you call that a postage stamp?I've > seen aircraft carriers smaller than that! Aaaah .......the luxury. Having a carrier to land on, no more down wind landings. 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