---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/22/08: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:34 AM - Re: Re: One less hurdle (pj.ladd) 2. 02:49 AM - Re: You have received photos from Adobe Photoshop Album Starter Edition 3.0 (pj.ladd) 3. 03:16 AM - fuel prices (pj.ladd) 4. 04:09 AM - Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (Thom Riddle) 5. 04:18 AM - Re: reviews (robert bean) 6. 05:50 AM - Re: reviews () 7. 06:19 AM - Re: reviews () 8. 06:25 AM - Re: fuel prices () 9. 06:40 AM - Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (cristalclear13) 10. 07:26 AM - Re: William Sullivan accident (william sullivan) 11. 07:29 AM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (planecrazzzy) 12. 07:53 AM - Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (Jack B. Hart) 13. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (VICTOR PETERS) 14. 08:51 AM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (Jim Kmet) 15. 09:08 AM - HKS Twinstar (Lee/Cannon) 16. 09:22 AM - Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (knowvne@aol.com) 17. 09:31 AM - Re: HKS Twinstar (planecrazzzy) 18. 09:34 AM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 19. 11:25 AM - Re: fuel prices (pj.ladd) 20. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: William Sullivan accident (pj.ladd) 21. 11:43 AM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (pj.ladd) 22. 11:54 AM - Re: fuel prices (John Hauck) 23. 01:01 PM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (cristalclear13) 24. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (Jack B. Hart) 25. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (John Hauck) 26. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (knowvne@aol.com) 27. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (John Hauck) 28. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (Eugene Zimmerman) 29. 02:43 PM - Re: HKS Twinstar (robcannon) 30. 02:46 PM - Re: Bill's Accident (JetPilot) 31. 02:56 PM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (JetPilot) 32. 04:22 PM - Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (Kolbdriver) 33. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (knowvne@aol.com) 34. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (John Hauck) 35. 06:12 PM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (cristalclear13) 36. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (knowvne@aol.com) 37. 06:59 PM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (Tony Oldman) 38. 07:03 PM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (planecrazzzy) 39. 07:13 PM - Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (Russ Kinne) 40. 10:41 PM - Re: fuel prices (WillUribe@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:03 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle the ship-captain license still requires you to know the light code for minesweepers! >> Stick with it Russ. Our little turbanned friends might decide that laying mines is simpler than flying airplanes into tall buildings. Anything disappeared mysteriously in the Bermuda Triangle recently? Cheers Pat :-) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:57 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: You have received photos from Adobe Photoshop Album Starter Edition 3.0 What altitude were you when you took this photo from your Kolb?>> Good one John. I can`t claim to have taken this one. If I had my attitude was likely to have been `Extremely anxious` As you probably guessed this was a picture from a national daily newspaper. Looking for crop circles at this time of the year is a local pastime. Usually about a dozen appear although generally not so complicated as this one Farmers tend to charge sightseers to walk around their fields but in an ultralight it is all free. For some reason the area west of my field, for about 20 miles is a favourite place for these things to appear. It used to be also an area where UFO`s were reported. One night a few years ago, at dusk Wendy and I had been viewing crop circles from the Challenger. I knew that there was some sort of multinational gathering of UFO spotters who were supposed to be keeping a vigil all night from the local hills . It had got pretty dark and I reckoned that I would be invisible to the UFO watchers even if they heard me. We flew past the UFO gang just above their height, about 800ft agl and about a mile distance. As we came abeam Wendy fired off her camera flash. Then we headed for home. Sure enough the local paper had "Light in the sky mystifies UFO watchers` that weekend. Cheers Pat :-) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:43 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: fuel prices Hi, someone on the list queried avgas prices over here. This from todaysissue of FLYER. Varying prices from =A31.34 + VAT to =A31.51 + VAT. That doesnt look too bad until you realise that is PER LITRE. I am not surewhat the VAT rate is. Generally it is 17.5% but there is a Fuel Tax and I do not know if if that is included in th main body of the price or not. Since the 1980`s the Fuel Tax for aircraft has been at 50% that of motor fuel but that protection is due to be removed. Courtesy of the European Union. Current price for motor fuel is !.34 per litre for diesel and =A31.28 for normal unleaded. I have started a collection of very strong rubber bands.... Cheers Pat :-( ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff From: "Thom Riddle" The last GA airplane I flew regularly, until 2004, had a VOR and an ADF. The VOR worked most of the time and the ADF worked only when I could find an NDB still in service, which was not all that often. The slow death of VOR and NDB is a certainty because as the ground facilities become disabled or fail, the FAA is no longer fixing them except those for which there is no reasonable alternative, yet. On May 19, 1967, I found myself a bit "mis-placed" on a night flight from Atlanta to Opa-Locka, FL. I was talking to Opa-Locka Tower but in the MIA traffic pattern, about 7 miles south of Opa-Locka. I'd never flown into either one before even during day time. It did not take long for the controller to figure out what had happened and I was vectored north with no further problems. If GPS had been invented back then that slight "misplacement" would not have occurred. If transponders had been required back then, it would not have occurred. As soon as the Cessna 162 SkyCatchers become available, a friend who owns/operates a local flight school wants me to do their SP instruction. The 162 will have all glass Garmin G300 multifunction and primary flight displays sort of like a junior version of the G1000. He now operates three 172s, all with Garmin Glass. I've flown one of them once. It is a lot of new stuff to learn but once I get a handle on it, there will be no going back, at least not in modern GA. Just wait until the new ADS-B stuff becomes a requirement! And yet, for pure joy of flying, simple is much better. Nothing like a Kolb for that.... but I do like the EIS, compact reliable and accurate! -------- Thom Riddle N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this. - Bertrand Russell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189019#189019 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:14 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: reviews I agree Vic. I don't go along with the advice some give about stalls during the initial flight. First get the feel of the aircraft during normal flight with shallow easy turns. Check how out of rig it is. The last thing I would want to do is an unintentional spin in the plane I had next to zero experience in. Stalls are highly over rated as a familiarity exercise. Go for that first one in ground effect. BB On 21, Jun 2008, at 10:32 PM, wrote: > > As I remember, there are 4 levels of learning. Rote, Insight, > Perception and finally Reflex. I am an old, old flight instructor > who learned in a tail dragger. One can learn with an instructor or > one can learn without an instructor. A rusty old pilot in a new > plane maybe just as prone to accident as a novice. I taxied my > Kolb Mark III Classic for about 3 or more hours before I even > lifted the tail at high speed. After all, over 1000 hours of labor > and $18,000 dollars of investment, gets ones attention. How would > one know how much taxi time is required before trying to crow hop? > It is somewhere between Perception and Reflex. The more that one > does not want to wreck his airplane, the more he will want to > achieve accurate and quick reflexs. One other thing: If one gets > confident enough to leave the airport, DO NOT just go up and fly > around. Make a plan to fly somewhere and do it. Such as: 5 - 10 > pattern flights in a row without touching wheels to the ground. In > othe > r! > words, get comfortable with the approach before trying a landing. > Have an eventless flight. Vic > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:28 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: reviews One other thing: If one gets confident enough to leave the airport, DO NOT just go up and fly around. Make a plan to fly somewhere and do it. Such as: 5 - 10 pattern flights in a row without touching wheels to the ground. In othe > r! > words, get comfortable with the approach before trying a landing. > Have an eventless flight. Vic Hi Vic: Good advice. One does not have to land the first approach, as long as the engine is running. Keep shooting approaches until it feels right or better. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:45 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: reviews I don't go along with the advice some give about stalls > during the initial flight. > BB Bob B: Homer Kolb, back during the dark ages of the early 1980's, always gave this instruction in the "How to fly your Kolb" section of the builders manual, "Climb to at least 1,000 feet above the ground, check the stall speed." I still agree with Homer's instructions from so long ago. How else will I know what the stall speed is if I do not check it? In a Kolb, it is a no brainer. From straight and level flight there is little or no chance of spinning a Kolb during a stall. Once the stall is out of the way, then I am equipped to add my margin and work on getting the Kolb back on the ground. I always check the stall speed on any new Kolb I fly, and when flying passengers of differing weight, I check stall with those passengers, especially the big'uns. There are a lot of differences in ASI's. No matter how accurate or inaccurate, it will always stall at the same indicated airspeed, unless the instrument is inop or one is getting into accelerated stalls. However, in a first flight in a Kolb, one would be hard pressed to get into an accelerated stall solo. I used to fail, most of the time, demonstrating the MKIII in an accelerated stall. Unless I was really loaded up, the old MKIII would not get into an accelerated stall. When it did, it was an immediate recovery to relax the stick pressure momentarily. At Sun and Fun and Oskosh demonstrations are conducted less than 500 feet AGL. This is plenty altitude for an experienced Kolb pilot to demonstrate the aircraft. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:37 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel prices ---- "pj.ladd" wrote: > Hi, > someone on the list queried avgas prices over here. This from todaysissue of FLYER. Good Morning Patrick: Pounds, liters, and VAT, do not mean a thing to 95% of your audience, especially me. ;-) Could you translate your fuel prices into gallons and dollars? or do you have the same problem I have? During my recent flight out West, I found av gas prices were not much more than auto fuel prices, and diesel prices were more than av gas prices. Putting a crimp in my flying, as well as my driving style. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar From: "cristalclear13" Any words of advice for adding a passenger to your Kolb Twinstar for the first time (and what to expect)? I was told to gradually add weight (50lbs at a time or so), but how to do that safely is another question. -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189050#189050 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:40 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: re: William Sullivan accident Another trip to the hospital. I can only get to the computer now and then. I had minor bruises, minor cuts (no stitches), a broken neck (one crack), broken back (lumbar area- 2 or more cracks), and a broken pelvis (3 or 4 cracks). Pelvis is not attached to spine- cracked and can't take ANY weight. I am going to spend the next 12-16 weeks on the living room floor. The only danger is to my neck, as the cracked vertabrae can pinch or rupture an artery. My butt hurts. At least I wasn't seriously injured, but I do have to wear a cervical collar all the time, and a body brace when I am up in the wheel chair. I still haven't read the mail- can't stay up long enough. Later Bill Sullivan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar From: "planecrazzzy" I think Bob Bean strapped in some Sandbags... Can somebody in your area "donate" a few Kids in different sizes.... . .. .. I 'm sure you would also want to treat it like a "First Flight" What I mean is , you need to Go up.....approach stall before you land, So you know the "NEW" approach speed..... Don't use your old numbers for your "heavier" plane... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN PS Even if you tried it with just 2 sandbags at first....That's about 60 lbs you'd be closer to knowing how it handles with the load... Then grab a fat kid.... -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189055#189055 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:11 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff >On my second Solo XC I land at a little dirt strip so to find out where I >was...BUT I wouldn't havelanded had they painted the name in the Dirt ... Mark, I was taught to circle a town water tower. At that time most had the town name painted on them. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:48 AM PST US From: "VICTOR PETERS" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff All Why not just get a backup GPS Vic N740VP ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:40 AM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar Cristal, I have done this 2 times.Start with Bags of something, sand, grain, something clean too. I`d start with about 75 or100 lbs, 50 will be hardly noticeable.Take off after MAKING SURE that the strapped in weight CANNOT move.The last thing you want is the weight to shift duiring movement & lock up a flight control.Then go up as all have suggested & do the stalls to see what airspeed they occurred at, & write them down.Gradually build up to the weight you`re comfortable hauling.Say maybe 125, then 150, & so on. Know how it will handle before you take Live passengers!. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "cristalclear13" Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:38 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar > > > Any words of advice for adding a passenger to your Kolb Twinstar for the > first time (and what to expect)? I was told to gradually add weight > (50lbs at a time or so), but how to do that safely is another question. > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Mark II Twinstar > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189050#189050 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:49 AM PST US From: "Lee/Cannon" Subject: Kolb-List: HKS Twinstar Hello Kolb group - my name is Rob Cannon. I am rebuilding a Twinstar mark 2 , including installing the HKS engine on it. My plane has flaperons, which I dont believe are original, and am cosidering removing. I am looking for build plans for the twinstar, or a photo of the original aileron bell crank bit that attaches to the root tube. If anyone has any comments on flaperons on a Kolb, I'd love to hear them. If anyone has I any questions about the HKS install, I'd be happy to answer them. cheers, Rob Cannon Salt Spring Island BC Canada ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff From: knowvne@aol.com Jack Good Tip, but dont the locals get upset using those things for Race Pylons 8 -) Back home in CA were I got lost we use to joke about flying low enough to re ad =C2- Free way signs hahaha Today I use a compass =C2-most flights and the GPS as my confirmation... =C2- BTW =C2-I have family in Winchester and Nabb IN.. Know any Vaughns or Johnsons =C2-down there? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jack B. Hart Sent: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:52 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff >On my second Solo XC I land at a little dirt strip so to find out where I >was...BUT I wouldn't have=C2-landed had they painted the name in the Dirt ... Mark, I was taught to circle a town water tower. At that time most had the town name painted on them. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:13 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS Twinstar From: "planecrazzzy" I'm just curious.... Why do you want to change it to regular ailerons... Have you flown it with the Flaperons ? I wish I had flaps...or something to drop me in quicker... ...I was talking to Ralph , He just bought a Kolbra... I thought it had flaps....Nope...it has Flaperons He said they work good... .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN , comin in hot, and gliding too much in ground effect. .. .. .. PS I'm still located at a short strip...Very short & Bumpy ( ask Ralph - he won't land there ) .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189071#189071 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/the_nut_that_fell_from_the_tree_108.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/northern_lights_airpark_i_117.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/northern_lights_airpark_436.jpg ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:46 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar Cristal Good advise. One more thing to take into consideration is that sand or what ever you strap down (if you put it in the seat) will not give you the forward CG loading that a person would give you. It's surprising how heavy legs are. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kmet" Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar > > Cristal, I have done this 2 times.Start with Bags of something, sand, > grain, something clean too. I`d start with about 75 or100 lbs, 50 will be > hardly noticeable.Take off after MAKING SURE that the strapped in weight > CANNOT move.The last thing you want is the weight to shift duiring > movement & lock up a flight control.Then go up as all have suggested & do > the stalls to see what airspeed they occurred at, & write them > down.Gradually build up to the weight you`re comfortable hauling.Say maybe > 125, then 150, & so on. Know how it will handle before you take Live > passengers!. Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cristalclear13" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:38 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar > > >> >> >> Any words of advice for adding a passenger to your Kolb Twinstar for the >> first time (and what to expect)? I was told to gradually add weight >> (50lbs at a time or so), but how to do that safely is another question. >> >> -------- >> Cristal Waters >> Mark II Twinstar >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189050#189050 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:18 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel prices John, Math was never my strong subject but this is the way it works, I think 1 is worth $1.97 3.78litres to US Gall. Price here about 1.20 per litre (and over) Say $2.364 per litre. $2.364 multiplied by 3.78 =$8.93 Roughly 9 bucks a gallon to you. Hope that is right. By the way. VAT ( the French call it TVA, but then they would) stands for Value Added Tax. Each country in Europe fixes their own rate and usually some exemptions. Here food is VAT rated Zero. but the idea is that all countries should become the same eventually. On the other hand there are no State or local taxes.. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:16 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: re: William Sullivan accident Another trip to the hospital.>> Hard luck Bill, I think everyone had gathered from the first reports that you had got away with it scot free. Very sorry to learn that is not so. Nothing anyone can do except to wish you well. Keep up with the list and let us know how you are progressing. Cheers and best wishes Pat ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:32 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar how to do that safely is another question.>> No problem Cristal, get a large plastic tank.tie it firmly in the passenger seat. Use the seatbelts plus as many bungee`s as you need to fix it IMMOVABLY. You do not want it falling onto the stick when you put your nose down on the approach Put some water in the tank in gradually increasing amounts. You can fill it in situ with a hose which will save you having to lug a heavy tank around. 10 gallons is a heavy load to lift and manouvre into place and you will need more than that A plastic tank is also clean and will not mess up the upholstery. Sand is dirty and awkward. Don`t use it. Good luck Pat. .. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:13 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel prices > Roughly 9 bucks a gallon to you. > > Pat Thanks, Patrick: Good explanation. Makes a lot more sense to me now. That is a lot more than I paid for 87 oct this morning, $3.76 a gal. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:58 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar From: "cristalclear13" My passenger seat is very small...smaller than the Mark III. If I use a container filled with water it would have to be a very tall, skinny container (10lbs of water is only 80 lbs) and I can't picture being able to keep 150 lbs of bags of sand in that tiny seat without it shifting somewhere where I wouldn't want it to go even if I strap it in good. If I put the sand in a container, again it would have to be a very tall, skinny container and I don't know how much weight that would add (anyone know how much weight is in a cubic foot of sand?). Someone else suggested to me to gradually add weights (like the kind you have on the end of a dumbbell) in a bag and strap that down, but someone else thought it would be dangerous...that it couldn't be secured properly. Is there more danger in trying to add weight like this (and as mentioned the possibility of it shifting) or simply adding a real person (not a fat kid :), but a fellow experienced pilot)? Are there any other differences to be aware of besides a longer takeoff (we have a 6000ft runway here which should be way more than enough since I barely use any of it when I'm by myself) and a faster approach on landing (adding the 10-15mph to the new stall speed)? assuming still air -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189102#189102 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:51 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar At 12:59 PM 6/22/08 -0700, you wrote: > Cristal, You can purchase sand in 25 pound plastic bags. Does not cost very much and it is easy to load/unload and fairly clean and easy to secure in the seat. If you are worried about it shifting, purchase some light ratchet strap type mechanisms that are used to hold odd shaped loads in pickups etc. They are very inexpensive and can be used for all sorts of things. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:10 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar > My passenger seat is very small...smaller than the Mark III. > > -------- > Cristal Waters Cristal: Been a long time since I flew my first passenger in a MKIII. I don't recall hauling sand or water prior to putting a RLP (real live person) in the passenger seat. I think it is absolutely normal for a new pilot to want to fly a passenger as soon as they get their credentials to do so. We want to share the love of our experiences in the air and show folks we can really fly an airplane, all by ourselves. I was that way. As a much older, more experienced Kolb pilot, who has hauled many, many passengers, over the years, I think I have a little different attitude now about getting an innocent passenger up in my little Kolb as quickly as possible after getting licensed. I think if I had to do it over again, I would build some good flight time, gain a lot of experience, and prepare myself to make that first passenger carrying flight and all those that follow as safe as possible, insuring I get myself and my passenger home safely. When you are ready to take up your first passenger, you should have more than enough runway, 6,000 feet, to be able to feel out your airplane which will change quite a bit after putting a passenger in the other seat. In the MKIII there is a need for much more nose up trim than when flying solo. In addition, the aircraft will not respond as quickly and the increased stall speed will be the primary differences in flying solo and dual. I have never flown a MKII, so can not help you in that respect. Personally, I would not want anything in the passenger seat, unless it was a passenger, especially not water and sand. The last thing I would ever want to do is injure or kill a passenger (or myself). john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff From: knowvne@aol.com Hi Vic Here is some interesting Reading on Why ... Lost reception isn't always a power issue.... http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Sept06/solar.flares.gps.TO.html =C2- IMO =C2- Knowing how to deadrecon with a compass and clock=C2- is the way all XC flights should be conducted...=C2- The GPS should be viewed=C2-as a confirmation=C2-device to preflight planning .... =C2- =C2- All Why not just get a backup GPS Vic N740VP ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:25 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff knowvne@aol.com: Was wondering how much flight experience you base your opinion on? Do you do a lot of cross country flying? BTW would be nice if we knew who we were talking with, what you are flying or building, and where you live. Not much fun talking to an email address we know nothing about. In addition to pilotage and dead reckoning, I am assuming you also use a se ctional to navigate. Take care, john h mkIII titus, al ----- Original Message ----- From: knowvne@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff IMO Knowing how to deadrecon with a compass and clock is the way all XC flights should be conducted... The GPS should be viewed as a confirmation device to preflight planning .... ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:49 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar On Jun 22, 2008, at 3:59 PM, cristalclear13 wrote: > Are there any other differences to be aware of besides a longer > takeoff (we have a 6000ft runway here which should be way more than > enough since I barely use any of it when I'm by myself) and a faster > approach on landing (adding the 10-15mph to the new stall speed)? > assuming still air Cristal, I believe John Hauck has given you the best advise yet. Your comment above shows a good grasp of the requirements for hauling extra weight. But please be aware that the Mark II was found to have marginal elevator authority for two normal sized adults compared with the Mark III which was give significantly larger tail feathers. With two aboard in a Mark II it is very important for you to discover "at altitude" your minimum safe speed that still provides adequate nose up elevator authority. I consider the Mark II a 1.75 place airplane, not a 2 place airplane. My opinion only. With proper awareness it can be done safely, but please be careful. Gene ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:50 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS Twinstar From: "robcannon" I am considering removing the flaperon system for two reasons. After installing the hks, custom fuel tanks, electric fuel pumps, etc. the twinstar has gained a few pounds. I am using 750 lbs. as the gross and it is up to 460 empty. hmmmmmmmmmm. As the present flaperon system is poorly built, and I am looking for ways to shed weight. Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189134#189134 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Bill's Accident From: "JetPilot" Thats good to hear Ed, from the last post it sounded like you guys were ready to pack up and leave. Its nothing short of unjust and hypocritical that the county would want to close an ultralight strip at the first accident, if that was the standard every recreational activity in the US would have to be closed down. There have been accidents in the past where I fly, and there will be more, Accidents happen, in any sport... I hope William has a speedy recovery and gets in the air. It really suck to go through that he has and never get to fly ! Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189136#189136 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar From: "JetPilot" The biggest change I feel in my MK III with a passenger is the elevator authority. I heaviest passenger I have taken up is 210 pounds, and thats my limit. With the 912-S, the plane has more than enough power to fly a heavier load, but I feel that I would not have enough up elevator authority with a heavier passenger. John H's advice about having a very long runway is good, if you want to fly someone, have them drive to an airport with a long runway and fly them from there until you see how your plane will perform. Also keep your speed up on approach, which is good technique weather alone or with someone. Also if you have a smaller engine, be ready for and do a much shallower climb, you will be surprised how much the extra weight slows down your climb. You will see your climb angle more like a heavy loaded Cessna rather than the normal steep climb of an ultralight. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189141#189141 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:28 PM PST US From: "Kolbdriver" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff I have NEVER been Lost! I've been powerful confused for 30 to 45 min at a time, but ain't ever been lost! (to those of you with no since of humor that was a joke!) I do remember on my short cross country into a small town airport Eagle Lake Texas. I went to the FBO to have someone sign my logbook, they guy behind the counter said, "Welcome to Katy!" I admit I did have to think for a sec before I realized he was pulling my leg. Fun times.. Mike Mark III Oak Grove MO. _____ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russ Kinne Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff This thread is getting interesting -- OK now, how many of you will admit to landing at one airport, thinking you were at another? (Despite having compass, clock & some other stuff too) Anyone gonna fess up? do not archive On Jun 21, 2008, at 2:14 PM, knowvne@aol.com wrote: Rick I'm so glad you mention the Compass and Clock... Personally I view the GPS as secondary confirmation to what my compass check points and Clock is telling me.. The GPS is also Great for helping you figure fuel requirements 8-) Distance and speed is right in your face..... BUT here again you should already have numbers before leaving the ground... If the GPS fails for what ever reason and your 50 miles out the last thing you want is a Panic attack at 3k...... Course in a Kolb you do have more LZ options than the GA experience gives ya.... 8-) But landing in someone back yard to ask WHERE AM I just isnt cool hahahaha Mark -----Original Message----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen Sent: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:57 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Lucien Hey join in. When I got my private ticket all there was for electronic navigation was VORs and ADFs. Later I joined a flying club with three planes that all had dual VORs with DME and a ADF. Believe me I used them and I was good at it. At the time it was super. But the GPS offers so much more for less. At best a VOR will give you a radial off a point and maybe a distance if it has DME but Exactly where are you? The further you are from a VOR the worse it gets. A GPS gives you a graphic and says you are right here. I'm not saying just teach GPS also teach compass and clock (real navigation) for when the power goes out. When I was working in the computer field I had to drag slide rules and type writers out of peoples hands all the time. Some people are never comfortable with anything new. You wouldn't believe the battles to get some people to use E-Mail. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "lucien" Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One less hurdle > > > NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: >> Jim >> >> It is so great that we have such talent in our group. Thanks for >> responding. >> >> The point I was trying to make is that there is so much to learn that to >> teach VORs and ADFs is really a waste. This equipment is expensive and >> inaccurate. No one in there right mind would even spend the money to >> repair >> one >> if it quit working when they could purchase a GPS for less money and get >> so >> much more. Its not just navigation accuracy its also the wealth of >> information at your fingertips. It would seem that pilot training should >> teach for the current and future not some antiquated equipment that >> should >> be phased out. >> > > > Don't mean to barge in on this thread but I don't really understand the > animosity towards VOR's that seems to have cropped up recently. It's > actually not "inaccurate", true it does take some skill to learn to use it > at first, but after that you really appreciate its simplicity and > reliability. > > The debate about GPS is contentious and has been going on for quite a > while now. The key point being whether to start using it as the _sole_ > means of navigation (rather than as just one means among several). > > That appears to be part of what's behind the effort to eliminate things > like VOR's. Just teach how to use a GPS and then no need to learn all this > other "outdated" technology. > > I may be kinda old-school, but I think that's a ridiculous (and dangerous) > idea for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here (unless we want a > GPS vs other navigation methods thread). > > In small planes like ours, of course, GPS tends to be a lot more > practical, for size and cost reasons usually. But truth is, if I could fit > a decent King VOR in my titan I'd do it in a heartbeat (the one in my A22 > barely works). > > Or heck, any of you guys throwing away your old VOR's, give it to me. I'll > _make_ the sucker fit..... > > As for the ILS, I don't recall too many ILS's that require an ADF. Many > require DME, but I've seen some you can shoot with just a VOR and a > LOC/GS. > > LS > > -------- > LS > FS II > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188900#188900 > > > > > > > > > > =========== et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =========== p://forums.matronics.com =========== blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== _____ Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff From: knowvne@aol.com Hi John Iv' e been flying since 1979 .. Soloed in a Acrobat C-150....=C2- The =C2-Compass VOR, =C2-ADF, and YES the Sectional=C2-was the only wa y to fly.... At least until 88 when I took up HangGliding 8-) 120 GA hours - Longest XC 500 miles 2000 hours Plus in=C2-HangGliders - =C2-longest XC 81 miles....=C2-Lot s of trees up here 8-( 5 hours in sail planes - Just around the patch and some thermal and ridge so aring... 10 hours in Trikes - maybe 2 hours of XC all dead reckoning =C2-( my new l ove ) Also Two Static Line Parachute jumps... =C2- 3000 ft straight down... That was enough hahaha 8-) I suppose the faster you fly the more helpful the GPS can be to helping you stay Well ahead of what your flying.... =C2-But it seems to me THATS all the mo re reason to know how to use the compass and dead reckon if the thing Fails... At 250 kts imagine how little time would need to pass for you to be WAY off course.... Today the way I fly I like to enjoy the Roses=C2-as I pass over them.... =C2-In=C2-HGs I rarely reached 60 kts =C2-usually teens to 30s ( airsp eed).. In Trikes its about the same for Kolbs=C2-50 to 60 is about average... The GPS is a great tool for quickly figureing fuel requirements once your in the air... It can tell you pretty quickly how close you are to your preflight=C2-=C2 -estimate .. No more do we have to pass a couple predetermined checkpoints and watch the clock to know how close we are... Mark -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 5:17 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff knowvne@aol.com: =C2- Was wondering how much flight experience you base your opinion on? =C2- Do you do a lot of cross country flying? =C2- BTW would be nice if we knew who we were talking with, what you are flying or building, and where you live.=C2- Not much fu n talking to an email address we know nothing about. =C2- In addition to pilotage and dead reckoning, I am assuming you also use a sectional to navigate. =C2- Take care, =C2- john h mkIII titus, al ----- Original Message ----- From: knowvne@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff =C2- IMO =C2- Knowing how to deadrecon with a compass and clock=C2- is the way all XC flights should be conducted...=C2- The GPS should be viewed=C2-as a confirmation=C2-device to preflight planning .... =C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:51 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Mark: That's very interesting. Unless I missed it, you didn't tell us where you were from, what you are bu ilding or flying, and who you are. You can quickly figure fuel with an E6B, along with a lot of other valuable info. Do you use an E6B? I also learned to fly cross country by pilotage and dead reckoning. Flew t hat way through most of my Army career, and until 1993, when I got my first GPS. I have a few more cross country hours than you do over the last 40 y ears and use my GPS for my primary nav instrument. It is a very important instrument, very reliable, improving my flight safety many times over my ba ck up of pilotage and dead reckoning. Once in a while I will hit a dead sp ot where no GPS signal can be obtained. Usually lasts for 20 or 30 miles. That has only happened 3 or 4 times in the last 2,500+ hours of flying. I have flown with GPS all over CONUS, Canada, and Alaska. Would not leave h ome without it. Recommend you get a GPS, use it and discover the many tasks it can perform for you. You will be amazed. Right off the top of my head, I think knowing what your ground speed is at all times is a function that is impossible to obtain constantly using pilot age and dead reckoning. Another is sunset at your destination, how long it will take to get there and how much fuel it will take. Nearest airports h ave saved my buns many times on cross country flights. John W and I used t hat feature many times during our last cross country flight out West. We e ncountered several thunderstorms, and many days of high winds, and periods of reduced visibility. Finding fuel and a safe landing area was quick and at our finger tips at all times. Take care, john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ----- Original Message ----- From: knowvne@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Hi John Iv' e been flying since 1979 .. Soloed in a Acrobat C-150.... The Compass VOR, ADF, and YES the Sectional was the only way to fly.... At least until 88 when I took up HangGliding 8-) 120 GA hours - Longest XC 500 miles 2000 hours Plus in HangGliders - longest XC 81 miles.... Lots of trees u p here 8-( 5 hours in sail planes - Just around the patch and some thermal and ridge soaring... 10 hours in Trikes - maybe 2 hours of XC all dead reckoning ( my new lov e ) Also Two Static Line Parachute jumps... 3000 ft straight down... That was enough hahaha 8-) I suppose the faster you fly the more helpful the GPS can be to helping y ou stay Well ahead of what your flying.... But it seems to me THATS all the more reason to know how to use the compass and dead reckon if the thing Fails... At 2 50 kts imagine how little time would need to pass for you to be WAY off course.. .. Today the way I fly I like to enjoy the Roses as I pass over them.... In HGs I rarely reached 60 kts usually teens to 30s ( airspeed).. In Trikes its about the same for Kolbs 50 to 60 is about average... The GPS is a great tool for quickly figureing fuel requirements once your in the air... It can tell you pretty quickly how close you are to your preflight estim ate .. No more do we have to pass a couple predetermined checkpoints and watch t he clock to know how close we are... Mark -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 5:17 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff knowvne@aol.com: Was wondering how much flight experience you base your opinion on? Do you do a lot of cross country flying? BTW would be nice if we knew who we were talking with, what you are flyin g or building, and where you live. Not much fun talking to an email addres s we know nothing about. In addition to pilotage and dead reckoning, I am assuming you also use a sectional to navigate. Take care, john h mkIII titus, al ----- Original Message ----- From: knowvne@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff IMO Knowing how to deadrecon with a compass and clock is the way all XC flights should be conducted... The GPS should be viewed as a confirmation device to preflight planning .... or?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar From: "cristalclear13" Thanks for everyone's advice and input. I believe that even if I get my license next month I'll wait until much cooler weather before even thinking about adding another person (and in south Georgia sometimes it's very late in the year before it really cools down). That will also give me more time to fly it on my own. Perhaps I'll stick to renting the Cessna (for a while) if someone wants to go up with me. -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189181#189181 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff From: knowvne@aol.com Hi John Sorry about that..=C2- I'm up =C2-here in New England... Not building much of anything these days .. Maybe a Few RCs now and then... Rather spend my limited free=C2-time flyin g instead of building... Although I would love to build a Carbon Dragon Sail Plane like a buddy of mi ne has.. It has a Sink Rate of 98 ft per =C2-min.. That give you the potential of s oaring all day 8-) =C2- Finding 100 fpm lift is very common on a good soaring day.... =C2-Great GA S Mileage 8-) I do own and use a GPS =C2-a garmin 76CS and a Etrex Legend. I =C2-didn' t mean to imply=C2- I don't use them.. I just don't rely on it for my primary=C2-NAV tool..... If it fails so what I was using the compass and dead reckoning anyway.... =C2-I fly the compass and look out front=C2- picking=C2-way points to head for... =C2-When I get there I'll look at t he GPS to confirm how close=C2- I=C2-am to its course line... =C2-It quickly confirms how well I'm doing ..=C2- GPS is my back up tool to confirm what I already know.. =C2-Like I said re al time GS is what=C2- I like most=C2-about them.. =C2-Makes figuring=C2-fuel needs quick and simple.. BTW=C2- was in AK last Aug.. Would have loved to got some air time over some of thos e Glaciers we hike on.... =C2-8-) Mark Mark: =C2- That's very interesting. =C2- Unless I missed it, you didn't tell us where you were from, what you are bui lding or flying, and who you are.=C2- You can quickly figure fuel with an E6B, along with a lot of other valuable info.=C2- Do you use an E6B? Yea I own the Circular Slide Rule.. No battery powered version there either. . 8-) =C2- I also learned to fly cross country by pilotage and dead reckoning.=C2- Flew that way through most of my Army career, and unti l 1993, when I got my first GPS.=C2-=C2- I have a few more cross country hours than you do over the last 40 years and use my GPS for my primary nav instrument. It is a very important instrument, very reliable, improving my flight safety many times over my back up of pilotage and dead reckoning. =C2- Once in a while I will hit a dead spot where no GPS signal can be obtained.=C2- Usually lasts for 20 or 30 miles.=C2- That has only happen ed 3 or 4 times in the last 2,500+ hours of flying. =C2-=C2- I have flown with GPS all over CONUS, Canada, and Alaska.=C2- Would not leave home without it. =C2- Recommend you get a GPS, use it and discover the many tasks it can perform for you.=C2- You will be amazed. =C2- Right off the top of my head, I think knowing what your ground speed is at all times is a function that is impossible to obtain constantly using pilotage and dead reckoning.=C2- Another is sunset at you r destination, how long it will take to get there and how much fuel it will take.=C2- Nearest airports have saved my buns many times on cross country flights.=C2- John W and I used that feature many times during our last cro ss country flight out West.=C2- We encountered several thunderstorms, and man y days of high winds, and periods of reduced visibility.=C2- Finding fuel an d a safe landing area was quick and at our finger tips at all times. =C2- Take care, =C2- john h mkIII Titus, Alabama =C2- =C2- =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: knowvne@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Hi John Iv' e been flying since 1979 .. Soloed in a Acrobat C-150....=C2- The =C2-Compass VOR, =C2-ADF, and YES the Sectional=C2-was the only way to fly.... At least until 88 when I took up HangGliding 8-) 120 GA hours - Longest XC 500 miles 2000 hours Plus in=C2-HangGliders - =C2-longest XC 81 miles....=C2-Lots of trees up here 8-( 5 hours in sail planes - Just around the patch and some thermal and ridge soaring... 10 hours in Trikes - maybe 2 hours of XC all dead reckoning =C2-( my new love ) Also Two Static Line Parachute jumps... =C2- 3000 ft straight down... That was enough hahaha 8-) I suppose the faster you fly the more helpful the GPS can be to helping you stay Well ahead of what your flying.... =C2-But it seems to me THATS all the more reason to know how to use the compass and dead reckon if the thing Fails... At 250 kts imagine how little time would need to pass for you to be WAY off course..... Today the way I fly I like to enjoy the Roses=C2-as I pass over them.... =C2-In=C2-HGs I rarely reached 60 kts =C2-usually teens to 30s ( airspeed).. In Trikes its about the same for Kolbs=C2-50 to 60 is about average... The GPS is a great tool for quickly figureing fuel requirements once your in the air... It can tell you pretty quickly how close you are to your preflight=C2-=C2-estimate .. No more do we have to pass a couple predetermined checkpoints and watch the clock to know how close we are... Mark -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 5:17 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff knowvne@aol.com: =C2- Was wondering how much flight experience you base your opinion on? =C2- Do you do a lot of cross country flying? =C2- BTW would be nice if we knew who we were talking with, what you are flying or building, and where you live.=C2- Not much fun talking to an email address we know nothing about. =C2- In addition to pilotage and dead reckoning, I am assuming you also use a sectional to navigate. =C2- Take care, =C2- john h mkIII titus, al ----- Original Message ----- From: knowvne@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff =C2- IMO =C2- Knowing how to deadrecon with a compass and clock=C2- is the way all XC flights should be conducted...=C2- The GPS should be viewed=C2-as a confirmation=C2-device to preflight planning .... =C2- =C2- =C2- or?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:38 PM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar Would it not be a lot simpler to just do a checkflight with your instructor . That way you get the fell of the plane with a whole lot of experiance sitting beside you. When I first flew the MK111 ,I did so with a instructor and all he got me to do was some basic steep turns ,figger 8s, stalls, power on ,power off and about 3 take offs / landings then away I went. I completed about 5 hours solo before the first passanger flight.I had about 150hrs ultralight time before that and it was all tail dragger stuff. I have not flown a Twinstar and do not want to put you wrong but I would be looking to put some experiance in the passanger seat for that first flight if I had any concerns at all Tony MK111 400 hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kmet" Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar > > Cristal, I have done this 2 times.Start with Bags of something, sand, > grain, something clean too. I`d start with about 75 or100 lbs, 50 will be > hardly noticeable.Take off after MAKING SURE that the strapped in weight > CANNOT move.The last thing you want is the weight to shift duiring > movement & lock up a flight control.Then go up as all have suggested & do > the stalls to see what airspeed they occurred at, & write them > down.Gradually build up to the weight you`re comfortable hauling.Say maybe > 125, then 150, & so on. Know how it will handle before you take Live > passengers!. Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cristalclear13" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:38 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar > > >> >> >> Any words of advice for adding a passenger to your Kolb Twinstar for the >> first time (and what to expect)? I was told to gradually add weight >> (50lbs at a time or so), but how to do that safely is another question. >> >> -------- >> Cristal Waters >> Mark II Twinstar >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189050#189050 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar From: "planecrazzzy" Yeah...., Then you'll have PLENTY of time to line up a FAT KID... .. .. .. He he he .. .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN , FSII /N381PM .. .. .. cristalclear13 wrote: > Perhaps I'll stick to renting the Cessna (for a while) if someone wants to go up with me. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189198#189198 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:40 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Nothing wrong with reading highway and other signs! -- I even carry binoculars do not archive On Jun 22, 2008, at 12:19 PM, knowvne@aol.com wrote: > Jack > Good Tip, but dont the locals get upset using those things for Race > Pylons 8-) > > Back home in CA were I got lost we use to joke about flying low > enough to read > Free way signs hahaha > Today I use a compass most flights and the GPS as my confirmation... > > > BTW I have family in Winchester and Nabb IN.. > > Know any Vaughns or Johnsons down there? > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack B. Hart > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:52 am > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff > > > > > >On my second Solo XC I land at a little dirt strip so to find out > where I > >was...BUT I wouldn't have landed had they painted the name in the > Dirt ... > > Mark, > > I was taught to circle a town water tower. At that time most had > the town > name painted on them. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:16 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel prices Greetings, Fuel prices across the river are $2.50 a gallon for gas and $2.25 for diesel. The fuel comes from the same refinery on this side but the differe nce is all the taxes, additives and extra refinements mandated by our government t hat causes us to pay more. But I will not go across the river to buy gas because there have been over 500 drug related murders this year and I sure don't want to get caught in t he cross fire. Who said smoking marijuana was a victim-less crime? _http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_9630091_ (http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_9630091) Regards, Will Uribe FireStar II El Paso, TX --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pj.ladd" John, Math was never my strong subject but this is the way it works, I think =A31 is worth $1.97 3.78litres to US Gall. Price here about =A31.20 per litre (and over) Say $2.364 per litre. $2.364 multiplied by 3.78 =$8.93 Roughly 9 bucks a gallon to you. Do not archive **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 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