---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/24/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:35 AM - Re: Text of my posts fail to show? Why? (William and/or Justina Fyfe) 2. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (pj.ladd) 3. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (boyd) 4. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (pj.ladd) 5. 01:47 PM - Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (cristalclear13) 6. 01:57 PM - Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (John Hauck) 7. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff (knowvne@aol.com) 8. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar (John Hauck) 9. 02:35 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (knowvne@aol.com) 10. 03:03 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (John Hauck) 11. 04:11 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (Dana Hague) 12. 04:35 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (knowvne@aol.com) 13. 04:37 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (knowvne@aol.com) 14. 05:18 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (John Hauck) 15. 05:44 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (John Hauck) 16. 06:11 PM - Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! (Dana Hague) 17. 07:22 PM - Re: Text of my posts fail to show? Why? (William and/or Justina Fyfe) 18. 07:57 PM - Re: Text of my posts fail to show? Why? (William and/or Justina Fyfe) 19. 08:04 PM - Questions about the Mark III and Kolbra (William and/or Justina Fyfe) 20. 08:12 PM - Re: Questions about the Mark III and Kolbra (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 21. 08:31 PM - Re: Questions about the Mark III and Kolbra (ElleryWeld@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:58 AM PST US From: "William and/or Justina Fyfe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Text of my posts fail to show? Why? Thanks Matt. Let's see if this works? Bill Grants Pass, Oregon ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:07 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Hi Mark, really interesting How is the dragon launched, cable or just leap off a hill.? Things have obviously moved on since I flew gliders. I had a 19mtre span Jantar and only flirted with hang gliders for a short while. I have always envied the hang gliders ability to stick the whole thing on a car and travel to and from a gliding site. Home built gliders are very few and far between in the UK. I dont know anyone who has built one although there are some stirrings with a glider to operate withinn the ultralight spec at the moment. Looks as though the Dragon would be really fun. Provided you don`t want to go anywhere. It seems to me that Hangliders and paragliders are reinventing the wheel and doing everything that the the gliding movement went through in the 30`s. First the flight sticking to hills, then the venturing into thermals, then going from thermal to thermal to go cross country. The perfect answer to those who think that gliding has got too technical Somewhere there is a Dagling in which I have a =C2=A35 share. I never had the nerve to fly the thing. In my gliding club we launched it with a winch cable once. I think that with 1000ft launch the Dagling landed about 10 seconds after the cable end hit the ground. Cheers Pat .. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:42 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar The W/B says the pilot weight should be a minimum of 195#. I weight 150#. So I need at least 45# ballast to fly solo. So with the proper ballast the plane will be 120# lighter with out my instructor in it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you put say 10 or 15 lbs in the nose,,, would do as much or more than 45 lbs in the seat. Putting the weight in the nose will give it a much greater moment arm. And what should you expect..... take off will be only 2/3 as long and much quicker acceleration. Climb will be faster. The roll trim may be different. You will need less elevator trim... be prepared to be amazed. Boyd Young MKIIIC 912 225+ hours and counting. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:15 PM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar He paid around $120 for the flight but I am not going to fly him until I feel a bit happier at the prospect. >> Hi Cristal, I wrote the above only yesterday. Unfortunately yeterday evening was soo perfect that I took the bull by the horns, rang the guy who bought the flight and offered to fly him . Introduced the guy to the plane, did a walk round with him.Explained what I was doing and strapped him in. Fired up and taxied out. Now, the farmer has cut my field and there is hay lying everywhere, drying. The strip has been raked clear but not the taxyway. Taxied out very gingerly through the hay and went right to the end of the strip. Unusual as I usually use only a part of it. Told the passenger what was going to happen. Got him to move his hip away from the dual throttle. Move his feet away from the pedals, move his left arm so that I could operate the flaps Ran through my mental checklist Controls, ballast, straps, intsruments trim Flaps... At this point I decided that I should check to see if I had picked up a load of hay round the mains or the tailwheel. Mains clear, eased my straps to look out of the door to check the tailwheel. All OK. Tightened straps completed checklist with Canopy( left over from gliding days) it means check doors now, and Brakes, keep feet clear. Opened the throttle, tail up, speed building.... we should be in the air by now. Thinks...nil wind.....perhaps the passenger is heavier than expected...going like the clappers now....too late to stop...hedge coming up....drag the stick back and she reluctantly took off. She was flying OK but not climbing as expected. Speed was ok so I just kept going pretending to the passenger that all was normal. Arrived some time later at 1000 ft and throttled back and finally had time to think. You have got there by now. Right! . I had forgotten to set the takeoff Flap. Enough for one flight you might think. But.. Flew to our home village, passenger happily taking pics, circuited over the village and then flew on when I noticed that the oil temp was in the red and the oil pressure had dropped. Very calmly I announced that something wasn`t quite right and it would be prudent to fly back. Eased throttle and began to lose height and arrived at the strip about 10 minutes later.. Pressure was still low but the temp had eased a bit. Made a reasonable circuit apart from having to fight the passenger for the flap lever, it really is an abortion, and then I messed up the landing. Allowing for the extra weight I arrived over the hedge at about 70 instead of 60.In nil wind that was close to the ground speed. We whistled in. The touchdown itself was a greaser but we took up about three quarters of the strip wheras I am usually down in less than half. The passenger of course thought this was quite normal. Just to put the lid on everything. When I taxied in I found that the rear of the plane was covered in oil Yuck. Engine frame, prop, fuselage, tail feathers. It seems that when I changed the oil a couple of days ago I over filled it, I hadn`t done an oil change before. and the excess had blown out of the breather tube. Luckily while I was cleaning up a couple of mates landed in a Jabiru and kindly took my passenger off fora flight. Over a beer later I was happy to hear my passenger say that although the Jabiru was comfortable and quiet he preferred the Kolb beause of the visibility. If it can go wrong it will. All reminds me of a cartoon in a RAF iinstructional magazine during the war. A whole bomber crew arriving at the Pearly Gates saying "We forgot the checklist" Today luckily has been quite nice weather and I have spent the day cleaning oil from everything and arranging a bottle and a piece of hose for the blow tube to lead into. Looking forward to checking the oil temp and pressure on the next flight. cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:37 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar From: "cristalclear13" pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > I took the bull by the horns, rang the guy who bought the > flight and offered to fly him . > > Pat Pat, Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you and your passenger made it safely home. -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189625#189625 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:43 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! Patrick/Mark: Don't ya think you all are getting a bit far from Kolb related subject matt er? john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama ----- Original Message ----- From: pj.ladd To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Hi Mark, really interesting How is the dragon launched, cable or just leap off a hill.? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff From: knowvne@aol.com Hi Mark, really interesting=C2-=C2- How is the dragon launched, cable or just leap off=C2- a hill.? Hi Pat The Dragon Kit is designed with Bomb Bay Doors below the cockpit so you coul d foot launch it if you wanted to but Steve built his with a floor..Its so light that an Ultralite can tow it. .. =C2-He's also =C2-launched it a few times by a Car tow.. Things have obviously =C2-moved on=C2- since I flew gliders. I had a 19mtre span Jantar and only flirted with hang gliders for a short while. =C2- I have always envied the hang gliders ability to stick the whole thing on a car and travel to and from a gliding site. Pat They have indeed......=C2- Today we even have sailplanes that are Electric powered using a Folding boom =C2-that comes up behind the cockpit..=C2- The Apis Sail plane I believe even gives you the ability to recharge the Bat tery in flight by=C2-Simply raising the boom and letting the Prop wind mill as you ridge soar or climb out in that =C2-Ripper to cloud base.. 8-) Now THAT sounds like the perfect Air toy if you can afford one.. 8-) And yes HangGliders have greatly evolved as well in the past 20 years I've b een flying them.....10:1 to 20:1 Alum Tubes to carbon fiber spars .. =C2-Transporting them to various sites =C2-is a bi g plus=C2-and in fact around the world is possible... Ive flown in Sydney, AU and Hawaii ... Fun Flying Vac.... Also some gliders can now be short packed =C2-to 8 ft.. This does require some Extra assembly once your ready to set her up but its very portable and great for traveling...=C2- =C2- Home built gliders are very few and far between in the UK. I don't know anyone who has built one although there are some stirri ngs with a glider to operate within the ultralight spec at the moment. Pat=C2- I=C2-believe there is at least ONE Carbon Dragon on =C2-your side of the pond... I thought I read some place about one being built =C2-over there... =C2- Looks as though the Dragon would be really fun. Provided you don`t want to go anywhere. =C2- Well they fit in a trailer just like the Race=C2-ships do =C2-so you can GO XC and land out.. Your slow enough that your Chace crew easily keep unde r you as you go.... Its nice sometimes to have some eyes on the surface conf irming Wind Direction and slope of chosen LZ 8-) It seems to me that Hangliders and paragliders are reinventing the wheel and doing everything that the the glid ing movement went through in the 30`s. First the flight sticking to hills, then the venturing into thermals, then=C2- going from thermal to thermal to go cros s country.=C2- The fun thing about HangGliding is you often never know where you'll land... =C2-And when you do you meet some amazed people just full=C2-of Question s...=C2- They're shocked to learn you just flew 100 miles in a KITE hahahaha ... BTW =C2-I believe the Open Record is 450 miles=C2-and to a Declared Goal just under 400miles..... =C2- =C2- =C2- My longest is only 81 but have many 50 to 70 mile flights We have Oceans of trees =C2-here that we have cross over So Distance can be a reall challenge for us... I think our Area REcord is 12 5 Mark ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:20 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Adding a passenger to the Twinstar I took the bull by the horns, rang the guy who bought the > flight and offered to fly him . > > Pat Patrick: "Taking the bull by the horns is a good way to get gored." Glad you did not kill or injure your innocent passenger. Over the years I have been flying Kolbs, I have made it a hard and fast rule to test fly the airplane solo before I put an innocent passenger in the other seat. Do that every day I fly passengers to insujre it is good to go. If I discover there is something not normal about the airplane, or me, after I am airborne, then it is only me and the Kolb that have to deal with the problem. In the US, if we build our Kolbs to be "homebuilt/experimental category", normally, we must fly off a 40 hour test period, solo. We are not legally authorized to fly a passenger until we have flown off our test time. This gives the pilot a lot of time to get to know his airplane before he attempts to fly with a passenger. High engine oil temp and low oil pressure is a pretty good indication of an impending engine failure. But you know all that, of course. Take care, john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! From: knowvne@aol.com Hi John Yes I concede=C2-8-) =C2- Mark I love the KOLB in fact I came this close =C2-l<--->l =C2- to buying one BUT the need for such a LONG trailer to store and transport it to flying sites I want to some day visit is what d eters me.... That is a nice advantage the Trike has over Fix wings... Very Portable.... =C2- And thats probably Why they cost so damn much=C2-for what you get... 8-( Mark -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 4:55 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! Patrick/Mark: =C2- Don't ya think you all are getting=C2-a bit far=C2-from Kolb related subject matter? =C2- john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama =C2- =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: pj.ladd Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Why Teach Out Dated Stuff Hi Mark, really interesting=C2-=C2- How is the dragon launched, cable or just leap off=C2- a hill.? =C2- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:53 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! Mark: Most of us, on the Kolb List, have already made the decision to build and f ly Kolbs. I've been doing just that for many, many years and flight hours. I, personally, am not interested in trikes, hang gliders, paragliders, etc. If I was, I'd have one, and be on a List that was dedicated to them. I believe the only requirement to be a member of the Kolb List is to sign u p and keep our posts Kolb related. Not much more to it. I built my airplanes to fly, not to haul around on top of, or behind, my tr uck. john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama That is a nice advantage the Trike has over Fix wings... Very Portable... . And thats probably Why they cost so damn much for what you get... 8-( Mark ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:12 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! At 05:59 PM 6/24/2008, John Hauck wrote: > >I built my airplanes to fly, not to haul around on top of, or behind, my >truck. Well, lots of us (including me!) did choose a Kolb for the ability to haul it behind a truck. If I couldn't keep it in a trailer I wouldn't be flying it. -Dana -- Work is underway on drafting a new constitution for Iraq. Why don't we send them ours? It worked for 200 years, and we don't use it any more. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! From: knowvne@aol.com HI John=C2- I completely understand the=C2-fascination and focus on KOLBs... -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 5:59 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! Mark: =C2- Most of us, on the Kolb List, have already made the decision to build and fly Kolbs.=C2- I've been doing=C2-just that for ma ny, many years and flight hours. =C2- I, personally, am not interested in trikes, hang gliders, paragliders, etc.=C2- If I was, I'd have one, and be on a List th at was dedicated to them. =C2- I believe the only requirement to be a member of the Kolb List is to sign up and keep our posts Kolb related.=C2- Not much more to it. =C2- I built my airplanes to fly, not to haul around on top of, or behind, my truck. =C2- john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama =C2- =C2- =C2- That is a nice advantage the Trike has over Fix wings... Very Portable....=C2- And thats probably Why they cost so damn much=C2-for what you get.. 8-( Mark =C2- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! From: knowvne@aol.com HAHAHAHAHA =C2- DANA=C2- I LOVE YOUR TAG LINE =C2-HAHAHAHA =C2- SAD TOO 8-/ MARK -----Original Message----- From: Dana Hague Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 7:06 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! At 05:59 PM 6/24/2008, John Hauck wrote: =C2- I built my airplanes to fly, not to haul around on top of, or behind, my truck. Well, lots of us (including me!) did choose a Kolb for the ability to haul it behind a truck.=C2- If I couldn't keep it in a trailer I wouldn't be flying it. -Dana -- =C2-Work is underway on drafting a new constitution for Iraq.=C2- Why don't we send them ours?=C2- It worked for 200 years, and we don't use it any more. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:02 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! From: "John Hauck" Dana: When I spoke of flying and not hauling, I was speaking strictly for myself. I understand there are a lot of folks that have no choice, and a lot of folks that like to put their Kolb in a trailer and haul it around behind their cars and trucks. That is the primary reason Homer has designed all his airplanes from the Ultrastar forward with folding wings. It is still a very big selling point for TNK. I have been very fortunate. Never had to trailer my Kolbs, except to get them from the shop to the airstrip, and to retrieve them when I broke them beyond their capability to fly me home. Been flying out of a little 750 grass strip in the cow pasture for more than 24 years. In fact, got a chance today to share that airstrip, the mkIII, the cows, the cow manure, antique tractors, with some mighty fine folks from Pennsylvania, Terry and Pat Frantz, my old friends from south of Smoketown, PA. Terry is the man that organizes the Homer Kolb Father's Day Flyins. Was totally surprised when they came driving in my drive pulling a popup camper, unannounced. The beauty of the whole thing is he was delayed by 30 minutes trying to find a Shell fuel station. I had returned from a trip to Mobile, Alabama, 10 minutes prior to their arrival. Had they not gotten lost trying to find the Shell Station, I would not have been at home, and we would have missed each other. We had a great visit. Always good to spend time with Kolb friends. When I make comments on the Kolb List, I make them for myself and not others. I try not to give advice, but to share what I have done right or wrong in situations that involve building and flying Kolbs. I personally do not like to get advice from people that have little or no experience flying Kolbs in matters that are pertinent to Kolbs. Guess I better get down off my soapbox. Got a bc msg to check my meds. ;-) Take care, john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama -------- John Hauck MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189666#189666 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf4347_1_160.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:15 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! Dana: Forgot to mention in my previous response, I have quite a bit of experience trailering Kolbs. In fact, I broke my mkIII,1 July 2000, at Muncho Lake i n northern BC, Canada. Did a very good job of breaking it. It was unflyab le and would take some extensive repairs to get it flying again. The best course of action was return home to Alabama, get the truck and trailer, the n drive 3,742 miles from hauck's holler, alabama, to Muncho Lake, BC. Took a couple days to configure the trailer, load the mkIII, secure it, and dep art for Oshkosh. We made it to OSH the first day of the flyin, mkIII in to w. From OSH back home was another thousand miles and a couple more days. Took 30 days from the time I crashed until I got the mkIII home. Some of you may have been at OSH that year. I gave a briefing on how to cu t a flight to Barrow, AK, OSH, and home, short in flight hours, but long in driving and hauling. Take care, john h mkIII Well, lots of us (including me!) did choose a Kolb for the ability to ha ul it behind a truck. If I couldn't keep it in a trailer I wouldn't be fly ing it. -Dana ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:38 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Subject Changed To Protect The Innocent! At 08:41 PM 6/24/2008, John Hauck wrote: >... 3,742 miles... I gave a briefing on how to cut a flight to Barrow, AK, >OSH, and home, short in flight hours, but long in driving and hauling. That's a l-o-n-g drive! And I thought my 570 mile round trip seemed long... Thought it seems a lot longer when you know you have a bent axle... and as you know it's a good thing it wasn't even one mile longer... -Dana -- The Bill of Rights goes too far--it should have stopped at "Congress shall make no law". ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:54 PM PST US From: "William and/or Justina Fyfe" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Text of my posts fail to show? Why? OK. Lemme try? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:20 PM PST US From: "William and/or Justina Fyfe" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Text of my posts fail to show? Why? It works! Thanks Matt! Bill Grants Pass, Oregon ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:55 PM PST US From: "William and/or Justina Fyfe" Subject: Kolb-List: Questions about the Mark III and Kolbra Here are my thoughts and maybe some of you can advise me on my sanity. We presently own a 150HP Cessna 150. A great airplane for most of what we have done with it. But very recently we have decided that we just are not that interested any more in the longer cross country flying. So, I am looking for an airplane that is more suitable doing low and slow just for local pursuits. An airplane that is capable of those shorter, rough airstrips. Or, possibly no airstrip at all. Something with good visibility. One that folds down easily for transport so we can take the airplane with us when we travel if we choose. What do some of you think? Is the Kolb the right aircraft for us? Thanks! Bill Grants Pass, Oregon ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:49 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Questions about the Mark III and Kolbra In a message dated 6/24/2008 11:05:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wjfyfe@att.net writes: What do some of you think? Is the Kolb the right aircraft for us? Bill, YEP! Kolb is the only one. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ Do Not Archive **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:35 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Questions about the Mark III and Kolbra It sure sounds like a Kolb will fit all your desires Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 6/24/2008 11:05:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wjfyfe@att.net writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "William and/or Justina Fyfe" Here are my thoughts and maybe some of you can advise me on my sanity. We presently own a 150HP Cessna 150. A great airplane for most of what we have done with it. But very recently we have decided that we just are not that interested any more in the longer cross country flying. So, I am looking for an airplane that is more suitable doing low and slow just for local pursuits. An airplane that is capable of those shorter, rough airstrips. Or, possibly no airstrip at all. Something with good visibility. One that folds down easily for transport so we can take the airplane with us when we travel if we choose. What do some of you think? Is the Kolb the right aircraft for us? Thanks! Bill Grants Pass, Oregon **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 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