---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/05/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:06 AM - Re: Fatal Ultralight crash in North Georgia (Thom Riddle) 2. 07:34 AM - Battery Life (Jack B. Hart) 3. 08:13 AM - Gyrocopter intercept (cristalclear13) 4. 09:52 AM - Re: Gyrocopter intercept (planecrazzzy) 5. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Gyrocopter intercept (Robert Laird) 6. 10:24 AM - density altitude (boyd) 7. 11:50 AM - Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan (John Hauck) 8. 11:50 AM - Re: Gyrocopter intercept (cristalclear13) 9. 01:55 PM - Re: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan (beauford T) 10. 02:10 PM - Re: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan (robert bean) 11. 02:19 PM - Re: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan (Eugene Zimmerman) 12. 02:42 PM - Re: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan (Robert Laird) 13. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: Gyrocopter intercept (gliderx5@comcast.net) 14. 03:44 PM - Re: Gyrocopter intercept (cristalclear13) 15. 04:00 PM - Re: Gyrocopter intercept (planecrazzzy) 16. 04:01 PM - Re: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan (chris davis) 17. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Gyrocopter intercept (gliderx5@comcast.net) 18. 05:53 PM - Re: Gyrocopter intercept (JetPilot) 19. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: Gyrocopter intercept (gary aman) 20. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Gyrocopter intercept (gliderx5@comcast.net) 21. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Gyrocopter intercept (Larry Cottrell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fatal Ultralight crash in North Georgia From: "Thom Riddle" Not Kolb Related but since it is so slow.... Pat, I believe you are correct. Anyone remember the "journalist" Stephen Glass that was caught completely fabricating over 1/2 of his reporting stories when he was a writer at The New Republic, the one in-flight magazine on Air Force One? After he was found out and fired he eventually wrote a novel called "The Fabulist" about a writer fabricating journalist stories. I suppose he should have tried fiction from the beginning but he probably would not have attained fame without his infamous tour in fantasy journalism. Are all "journalists" frustrated novelists? do not archive -------- Thom Riddle N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- Scratch any cynic, he said, and youll find a disappointed idealist. George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191303#191303 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:04 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: Battery Life Kolbers, No July fourth flyby this year. A couple months ago I had trouble getting the engine started after the FireFly had set in the hangar for a couple of weeks. I put a trickle charger on the battery to bet the engine started. When I got home I ordered a new ultrastart-red battery. To keep flying I connected the trickle charger to the battery to keep it topped off while it was in the hangar. The battery was back ordered and it came two days ago. I did not bother to install it as I had been having not trouble with starting the engine. But yesterday, the battery died, and so I did not get to make my flyby. I checked out my log. The battery started the engine for 467 flights over a period of six years and two months. At current battery cost, it figures out to 21 cents per flight to keep from pulling a rope or hand propping. My daughter and son-in-law hosted about 40 relatives over the fourth. The kids were a little disappointed, but I told them we can try again next year. We had a great time. I hope your fourth was as much fun. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Gyrocopter intercept From: "cristalclear13" I was intercepted today by AF gyro. :) just kidding Gyrocopter flew with me to Alma today on my first cross country in my Kolb Mark II Twinstar. -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191314#191314 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gyrocopter_formation_166.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept From: "planecrazzzy" Just curious.... Could he "keep up" or did you have to back off the throttle? .. .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191319#191319 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_tips_024_105.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:43 AM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept That's looks like a Sparrowhawk, and they normally cruise in the 65-70mph range. On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:50 AM, planecrazzzy wrote: > > Just curious.... Could he "keep up" or did you have to back off the throttle? > . > . > . > Gotta Fly... > Mike & "Jaz" in MN > . > . > . > > -------- > . > . > . > . > . > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191319#191319 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_tips_024_105.jpg > > -- Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um.... ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:48 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: Kolb-List: density altitude Flying from Brigham City at over 4000 ft elevation and hot as blazes out side made me think of a formula to figure Density altitude easily. years ago I found an article that had a formula to help figure Density Altitude. " DA= E+(66*(T-(59-(E*0.0054))))" where: * = Multiply DA = Density Altitude E = elevation in feet T = Temp in deg F 0.0054 = laps rate per ft(or 5.4 Deg / 1000 ft) A faa article on DA stated 3.6 deg Per 1000 ft. instead of 5.4 DEG F / 1000 I guess I don't know why the difference in the 2 articles.. unless the laps rate changes with humidity levels. using 5.4 in place of 3.6 would allow for greater safety margins. anyway I did some math skills on the formula and came out with something that is not as plain to understand, maybe. but is a lot easier to accomplish with a very simple calculator. the results seem to be the same. DA= E*.0054 - 59 + T * 66 + E boyd young Boyd Young Kolb MkIII C 525+ hours and counting Brigham City Utah. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:26 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan Farewell, Grey Baron! I was fortunate to have crossed paths with you. john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan > It is with great sorrow that I tell you that Bob passed away > yesterday, July 4th, at a hospital in Harrisonburg, Virginia. His > death was peaceful and without pain. > No viewing or funeral will be held. A memorial service may be held in > several weeks. > It was his wish that his ashes be flown over the Shenandoah Valley. > Condolences can be sent to: > Mrs. Robert O. Noyer (Jo) > 1316 Darlington Drive > Winchester, Va 22603 > > An obituary will be posted in the Winchester Star in the next several > days. > > If you wish to follow-up on this email please address a response to > me directly at: > snrosenbaum@earthlink.net > > Thank you, > Susan Rosenbaum, third daughter > writing from of the home computer of Bob Noyer > > The family would appreciate it if this emailed was forwarded to > anyone else you think might appreciate this information. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:55 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept From: "cristalclear13" planecrazzzy wrote: > Just curious.... Could he "keep up" or did you have to back off the throttle? > . > . > . > Gotta Fly... > Mike & "Jaz" in MN > . > . > . Mike, My climb rate is MUCH faster, but as far as cruising he can keep up or even pass me. On the way there I was cruising at 65 but on the way back I cruised at 60 to save on gas. It is a RAF 2000 gyrocopter. -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191327#191327 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:19 PM PST US From: "beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan ..we all were, John... He was a class act ... beauford ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Farewell, Grey Baron! I was fortunate to have crossed paths with you. Subject: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan > writing from of the home computer of Bob Noyer > > The family would appreciate it if this emailed was forwarded to > anyone else you think might appreciate this information. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:13 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan He was a good, caring and thoughtful man. BB On 5, Jul 2008, at 2:47 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Farewell, Grey Baron! > > I was fortunate to have crossed paths with you. > > john h > mkIII > hauck's holler, alabama > > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:39 PM > Subject: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan > > >> It is with great sorrow that I tell you that Bob passed away >> yesterday, July 4th, at a hospital in Harrisonburg, Virginia. His >> death was peaceful and without pain. >> No viewing or funeral will be held. A memorial service may be held >> in several weeks. >> It was his wish that his ashes be flown over the Shenandoah Valley. >> Condolences can be sent to: >> Mrs. Robert O. Noyer (Jo) >> 1316 Darlington Drive >> Winchester, Va 22603 >> An obituary will be posted in the Winchester Star in the next >> several days. >> If you wish to follow-up on this email please address a response >> to me directly at: >> snrosenbaum@earthlink.net >> Thank you, >> Susan Rosenbaum, third daughter >> writing from of the home computer of Bob Noyer >> The family would appreciate it if this emailed was forwarded to >> anyone else you think might appreciate this information. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:01 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan Condolences to the Noyer family. I will always remember Bob as a very generous, friendly man, and always with a gift of good humor. Gene Z On Jul 5, 2008, at 2:47 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Farewell, Grey Baron! > > I was fortunate to have crossed paths with you. > > john h > mkIII > hauck's holler, alabama > > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:39 PM > Subject: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan > > >> It is with great sorrow that I tell you that Bob passed away >> yesterday, July 4th, at a hospital in Harrisonburg, Virginia. His >> death was peaceful and without pain. >> No viewing or funeral will be held. A memorial service may be held >> in several weeks. >> It was his wish that his ashes be flown over the Shenandoah Valley. >> Condolences can be sent to: >> Mrs. Robert O. Noyer (Jo) >> 1316 Darlington Drive >> Winchester, Va 22603 >> An obituary will be posted in the Winchester Star in the next >> several days. >> If you wish to follow-up on this email please address a response >> to me directly at: >> snrosenbaum@earthlink.net >> Thank you, >> Susan Rosenbaum, third daughter >> writing from of the home computer of Bob Noyer >> The family would appreciate it if this emailed was forwarded to >> anyone else you think might appreciate this information. > do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:47 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan I had the joy of exchanging several emails with Bob over the years and, with them, several stories of our respective aviation adventures. He was a gifted story-teller and I will miss hearing new stories. His body may be gone, but his spirit will be with us forever. -- Robert On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 4:07 PM, robert bean wrote: > > He was a good, caring and thoughtful man. > BB > > On 5, Jul 2008, at 2:47 PM, John Hauck wrote: > >> >> Farewell, Grey Baron! >> >> I was fortunate to have crossed paths with you. >> >> john h >> mkIII >> hauck's holler, alabama >> >> >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:39 PM >> Subject: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan >> >> >>> It is with great sorrow that I tell you that Bob passed away yesterday, >>> July 4th, at a hospital in Harrisonburg, Virginia. His death was peaceful >>> and without pain. >>> No viewing or funeral will be held. A memorial service may be held in >>> several weeks. >>> It was his wish that his ashes be flown over the Shenandoah Valley. >>> Condolences can be sent to: >>> Mrs. Robert O. Noyer (Jo) >>> 1316 Darlington Drive >>> Winchester, Va 22603 >>> An obituary will be posted in the Winchester Star in the next several >>> days. >>> If you wish to follow-up on this email please address a response to me >>> directly at: >>> snrosenbaum@earthlink.net >>> Thank you, >>> Susan Rosenbaum, third daughter >>> writing from of the home computer of Bob Noyer >>> The family would appreciate it if this emailed was forwarded to anyone >>> else you think might appreciate this information. >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um.... ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:26 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept I just flew my 503 powered MKII and I only cruise at about 45 mph on the GPS at 5200 rpm. At 6200 I can get 60 mph but no faster. Do these numbers sound like what others are seeing? I have a 3 blade IVO prop. Average fuel burn looks to be 3 gph. -- Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 Schleicher ASW-15 Pietenpol Air Camper Kolb MKII -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "cristalclear13" > > > planecrazzzy wrote: > > Just curious.... Could he "keep up" or did you have to back off the throttle? > > . > > . > > . > > Gotta Fly... > > Mike & "Jaz" in MN > > . > > . > > . > > > Mike, My climb rate is MUCH faster, but as far as cruising he can keep up or > even pass me. On the way there I was cruising at 65 but on the way back I > cruised at 60 to save on gas. > It is a RAF 2000 gyrocopter. > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Mark II Twinstar > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191327#191327 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept From: "cristalclear13" gliderx5 wrote: > I just flew my 503 powered MKII and I only cruise at about 45 mph on the GPS at 5200 rpm. At 6200 I can get 60 mph but no faster. Do these numbers sound like what others are seeing? I have a 3 blade IVO prop. Average fuel burn looks to be 3 gph. > > -- > Malcolm Morrison > http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 > Schleicher ASW-15 > Pietenpol Air Camper > Kolb MKII > > Malcolm, On the way there my rpm was showing 6000 and I was cruising at 65mph on my ASI (and the GPS registered anywhere from 47 to 65). On the way back my rpm was around 5700-5800 and I was cruising at 60mph on my ASI. I have a 66inch wood prop. At the rate I was going I burned approximately 4 GPH. -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191355#191355 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:33 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept From: "planecrazzzy" Cruise speed for me, was increased ALOT by changing my 3 blade IVO to a 2 blade ( I bought the "Blocks" from IVO ) My cruise used to be around 60.... I'm 70 plus now The other day I was a little high on the throttle RPM's .... I looked at my Airspeed... I was doing 80 !!! Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN. .. .. PS Climb out is a little less........ "I'LL TAKE IT " .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191358#191358 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:43 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan He was a GOOD MAN and he managed to fly almost to the end , may he fly on w ith a fair wind and a smile on his face- . Chris=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Origina l Message ----=0AFrom: Robert Laird =0ATo: kolb-list@ matronics.com; snrosenbaum@earthlink.net=0ASent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 5:4 0:12 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan >=0A=0AI had the joy of exchanging several emails with Bob over the years =0Aand, with them, several stories of our respective aviation adventures. =0AHe was a gifted story-teller and I will miss hearing new stories.=0AHis body may be gone, but his spirit will be with us forever.=0A=0A- -- Rober t=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 4:07 PM, robert bean =0A>=0A> He was a good, caring and thoughtful man.=0A> BB=0A>=0A> On 5, Jul 2008, at 2:47 PM, John Hauck wrote:=0A>=0A>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" =0A>>=0A>> Farewell, Grey Bar on!=0A>>=0A>> I was fortunate to have crossed paths with you.=0A>>=0A>> joh n h=0A>> mkIII=0A>> hauck's holler, alabama=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:39 PM=0A>> Subject: Bob Noyer - from his daughter Susan=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>> It is with great sorrow that I tell you that Bob pas sed away- yesterday,=0A>>> July 4th, at a hospital in Harrisonburg, Virgi nia. His- death was peaceful=0A>>> and without pain.=0A>>> No viewing or funeral will be held. A memorial service may be held in=0A>>>- several we eks.=0A>>> It was his wish that his ashes be flown over the Shenandoah Vall ey.=0A>>> Condolences can be sent to:=0A>>> Mrs. Robert O. Noyer (Jo)=0A>>> 1316 Darlington Drive=0A>>> Winchester, Va 22603=0A>>> An obituary will be posted in the Winchester Star in the next several=0A>>>- days.=0A>>> If you wish to follow-up on this email please address a response to- me=0A>> > directly at:=0A>>> snrosenbaum@earthlink.net=0A>>> Thank you,=0A>>> Susan Rosenbaum, third daughter=0A>>> writing from of the home computer of Bob N oyer=0A>>> The family would appreciate it if this emailed was forwarded to - anyone=0A>>> else you think might appreciate this information.=0A>>=0A> >=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A-- =0AWhy did the chick =======================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:40 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept Maybe I should try more prop pitch. My CHTs are 300 but my EGTs peak at 1200 (1100 at full power climb). I have home made streamlined struts, but no other "speed" mode. I don't have a VSI, but I will do some timed climbs to see what type of performance I'm getting. What are you seeing for climb rate? If I could get the cruise up to 55 that would be huge! -- Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 Schleicher ASW-15 Pietenpol Air Camper Kolb MKII -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "cristalclear13" > > > gliderx5 wrote: > > I just flew my 503 powered MKII and I only cruise at about 45 mph on the GPS > at 5200 rpm. At 6200 I can get 60 mph but no faster. Do these numbers sound > like what others are seeing? I have a 3 blade IVO prop. Average fuel burn > looks to be 3 gph. > > > > -- > > Malcolm Morrison > > http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 > > Schleicher ASW-15 > > Pietenpol Air Camper > > Kolb MKII > > > > > > > Malcolm, On the way there my rpm was showing 6000 and I was cruising at 65mph on > my ASI (and the GPS registered anywhere from 47 to 65). > On the way back my rpm was around 5700-5800 and I was cruising at 60mph on my > ASI. I have a 66inch wood prop. At the rate I was going I burned approximately > 4 GPH. > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Mark II Twinstar > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191355#191355 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept From: "JetPilot" Try increasing your pitch, it does not take long, and you can always put it back if you dont like it. I decreased the pitch on my 912-s a couple weeks ago to get full RPM on takeoff and climb out.... It got me a couple more hundred FPM in climb, but cruise sucked, I had to run a bunch more power just to get the same cruise I did before. I put the pitch back for 5200 RPM on climb out, it restored my cruise speed with lower power settings. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191370#191370 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:52 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept Might be helpful to know the top RPM on climb out. ----- Original Message ---- From: "gliderx5@comcast.net" Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 7:48:08 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept Maybe I should try more prop pitch. My CHTs are 300 but my EGTs peak at 1200 (1100 at full power climb). I have home made streamlined struts, but no other "speed" mode. I don't have a VSI, but I will do some timed climbs to see what type of performance I'm getting. What are you seeing for climb rate? If I could get the cruise up to 55 that would be huge! -- Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 Schleicher ASW-15 Pietenpol Air Camper Kolb MKII -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "cristalclear13" > > > gliderx5 wrote: > > I just flew my 503 powered MKII and I only cruise at about 45 mph on the GPS > at 5200 rpm. At 6200 I can get 60 mph but no faster. Do these numbers sound > like what others are seeing? I have a 3 blade IVO prop. Average fuel burn > looks to be 3 gph. > > > > -- > > Malcolm Morrison > > http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 > > Schleicher ASW-15 > > Pietenpol Air Camper > > Kolb MKII > > > > > > > Malcolm, On the way there my rpm was showing 6000 and I was cruising at 65mph on > my ASI (and the GPS registered anywhere from 47 to 65). > On the way back my rpm was around 5700-5800 and I was cruising at 60mph on my > ASI. I have a 66inch wood prop. At the rate I was going I burned approximately > 4 GPH. > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Mark II Twinstar > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191355#191355 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:05 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:51 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gyrocopter intercept > > Maybe I should try more prop pitch. My CHTs are 300 but my EGTs peak at > 1200 (1100 at full power climb). I have home made streamlined struts, but > no other "speed" mode. I don't have a VSI, but I will do some timed > climbs to see what type of performance I'm getting. What are you seeing > for climb rate? If I could get the cruise up to 55 that would be huge! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds as though you might be a bit lean on your midrange. You might try to raise your jet needle one notch. Larry C ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.