---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/16/08: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:29 AM - Sample Video from Nauga Field Fly Around (John Bickham) 2. 02:34 AM - Re: Re: Flying into Dust Devils (pj.ladd) 3. 04:49 AM - Re: Re: Flying into Dust Devils (WillUribe@aol.com) 4. 05:54 AM - Re: Sample Video from Nauga Field Fly Around (John Hauck) 5. 06:03 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (George Alexander) 6. 06:20 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Eugene Zimmerman) 7. 06:35 AM - Nauga 2008 (John Hauck) 8. 09:13 AM - TERRIER_Marc wants to join KolbUltrastar (Scott Perkins) 9. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Robert Laird) 10. 10:01 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (JetPilot) 11. 10:34 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Jimmy Young) 12. 10:39 AM - Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s (JetPilot) 13. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Eugene Zimmerman) 14. 10:55 AM - Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s (Ralph B) 15. 11:25 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (JetPilot) 16. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (herb) 17. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Bart Morgan) 18. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (robert bean) 19. 12:42 PM - Re: Re: kolb sighting (gary aman) 20. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: kolb sighting (gary aman) 21. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 22. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (John Hauck) 23. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: kolb sighting (Jerry Jones) 24. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Jerry Jones) 25. 02:41 PM - Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s (lucien) 26. 03:05 PM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (JetPilot) 27. 04:34 PM - Mark III and / or Kolbra in Oregon? (William and/or Justina Fyfe) 28. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 29. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: kolb sighting (gary aman) 30. 07:26 PM - Fw: SAIB NE-08-36 - Bombardier-Rotax (Jerry Jones) 31. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (gary aman) 32. 07:37 PM - Re (possums) 33. 07:53 PM - Re: Re (Tom Jones) 34. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: kolb sighting/Jabiru Powered MKIII (John Hauck) 35. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: Re (possums) 36. 09:10 PM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Mnflyer) 37. 09:36 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (robert bean) 38. 09:40 PM - Re: Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s (WillUribe@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Sample Video from Nauga Field Fly Around From: "John Bickham" Links to a few clips of video from the weekend. John H landing RWY 14. First to arrive. Hates to taxi! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAd10ZDKuwM Gary H landing RWY 14. Smooth! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hLivEqnkvM Bruce C landing RWY 14. From just up the creek a ways. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnE0bTFdTQo Jimmy "True Grit" Young taking off RWY 36 @ False River. Wind was direct crosswind to slighty quatering tailwind. Gives some idea of the 40 hp generac's performance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THo3IzhX9hI Wish I was better at this picture taking stuff. I'm working on it. Thanks to everyone that took the time to visit with us. We enjoy it so much. For those that didn't make it, we'll do it again. Practice on your shortfield techniques. Good thing to do and have confidence in. Shortfields have taught me more about flying than when I was using those +3000 ft paved rwys. Still learning a lot! Come pass a good time with us. -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C w/ 912UL St. Francisville, LA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193029#193029 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:11 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flying into Dust Devils PS, This helicopter stuff has me so confused! Me too. I sat through 5 minutes waiting for it to fall on its side or do something else exciting, and when the pilot got out and left it running I rather hoped it would fly away. Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:50 AM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Flying into Dust Devils Hi Pat, Don't you remember the first time you started the engine on your Kolb after all those long hours of building? That in it's self is exciting. Well we were excited to see it run up for the first time. Not quite ready for it to fly, waiting on a new tach and other items. Regards, Will Uribe FireStar II El Paso, TX do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pj.ladd Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:31 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flying into Dust Devils PS, This helicopter stuff has me so confused! Me too. I sat through 5 minutes waiting for it to fall on its side or do something else exciting, and when the pilot got out and left it running I rather hoped it would fly away. Pat **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:26 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sample Video from Nauga Field Fly Around > John H landing RWY 14. First to arrive. Hates to taxi! > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAd10ZDKuwM > > John Bickham John B/Gang: That's called "Kolb Float". Just opposite "Kolb Quit". "Kolb Float" is executed without VGs. ;-) To compensate for lack of VGs, pilot must maintain upward pull on control stick. Stronger pilots float better than weak ones. john h mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:41 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "George Alexander" Jimmy: For the benefit of those of us who are still tied to the R503s...... Was there a determination made as to what caused yours to fail? Thanks, Jimmy Young wrote: > Hi to all, > > Last Memorial Day weekend I had an engine failure on my Rotax 503. > landed off-field with no problems other than a change of underwear. My > 503 had 205 hrs. on it when it failed. I had been contemplating > getting a 4 stroke engine when my 300 hr. rebuild came due, so this > just sped up the process. > > > > > > > Jimmy Young > Kolb FS II > N7043P > Houston, TX -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193068#193068 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:00 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Generac engine test data on my FS II Jimmy, Does your plane still have the wing fold capability, or are there some interference problems with the engine? Gene On Jul 15, 2008, at 7:05 PM, Jimmy Young wrote: > Hi to all, > > Last Memorial Day weekend I had an engine failure on my Rotax 503. > landed off-field with no problems other than a change of underwear. > My 503 had 205 hrs. on it when it failed. I had been contemplating > getting a 4 stroke engine when my 300 hr. rebuild came due, so this > just sped up the process. I was considering the HKS 700 and the > Generac V-twin from Valley Engineering. The cost difference was > substantial, so much so that I figured I would rather spend a little > more and get a Mark III than get the HKS. I decided to further > investigate the Generac. > > I contacted Dick Stark in Kansas City, who owns a Kolb Mark II with > the Generac engine. He let me come up to see the engine & hear it > run, and would have flown it but the weather was bad. It sounded and > felt great. He and his wife Sharon, who usually flies the Kolb, were > very happy with it, so I drove to Valley Engineering in Rolla MO to > see more. I was impressed with the operation and the people who own > it, Gene and Larry Smith. They had done the install on Dick's plane, > and I decided to order one. > > The week of June 16th I trailered my plane to Rolla and they started > the install. There are mods that were done to the engine mount area > that required welding some 4130 angle and plate steel. The engine is > installed direct to the frame with no shock mounts. This is done to > control the "torsional resonance" a V-type engine can produce, > according to Gene Smith. I'm no expert in any of that, and don't > profess to be. I leave that up to people like the Smiths who do it > professionally on a daily basis. I do know that I feel no more > vibration in my plane now than when it had the 503. By Wednesday > morning we were doing test flights at Vichey Field, also known as > Rolla National Airport. We tried 3 different props and redrive > ratios, and I went with the IVO 3 blade 72" with a 2.0 redrive. I > headed home with my new engine ready to start running it through a > testing period. The following information contains all of the > performance data I have compiled over the last 3 1/2 weeks and the > first 34 hrs. of flight with the new engine: > > Flight Test Notes on a new Generac V-Twin engine from Valley > Engineering, Rolla, MO. > Reduction Drive: 2.0, belt driven > Prop: IVO 72 3 blade > HP: 40 at 3600 rpm > single Weber carb with accelerator pump, no choke or primer. > This engine is replacing a Rotax 503 DCDI. > My FS II weighs 435 lbs empty, no fuel. > For more engine information, see www.culverprops.com > > > 6/18/08: > > 0900 hrs/temp 58/winds calm > > First day of test flights done at Rolla National Airport, Vichey, > MO. > > total flight times approx. 1.5 hrs, Hobbs 222.0 > > Tests were done using various props and pulley ratios. Larry Smith > was on hand doing the prop and pulley change outs. We were looking > for the best combination for power and smoothness. We tried a few > props and I settled on a 3 blade 72 IVO > > 6/21/08: > > Back home in Houston. > > 1400 hrs/temp 96/winds 330 @ 5-10mph > > total flight time 1.2 hrs, 3 landings, Hobbs meter 223.3 > > I stayed in the pattern on the first flight at home in case anything > came loose or the engine quit, Im right over the airport. > > Take off roll est @ 350, climb out speed 45-50, rate of climb > approx 300-400 fpm, both of which are not as strong as the 503 was. > > Max speed WOT 63-67 mph. Cruise speed at est. 3400 rpm (no tach yet) > was 52-54 mph. Cruise and max speeds are equal to the 503s > performance. > > Max oil temps hit 245 -250 on a continuous max WOT climb for 5+ > minutes. Oil temps at normal cruise speeds ran 225 -235. This will > need correction! > > I could not record RPMs today as I do not have a tach set up, > waiting on a Tiny Tach to come in this week. My previous tach for > the 503 was in my EIS, which must be re-programmed for the 4 stroke. > > IVO prop setting @ 2 turns increased pitch from neutral, or > around 41 pitch. > > Plane handling characteristics were very good, no change from 503 > Rotax other than reduced climb rate and increased take-off roll. > However, I never flew the 503 in any temps over 82 degrees, so Im > not so sure the lack of climb rate isnt partially due to the high > density altitude conditions experienced today with 97 degree > temperatures at take-off. > > 6/22/08: > > 0830 hrs/temp 77 to start, 90 at end of flight/winds 340 @ 5mph > > total flight time 3.6 hrs, 4 landings, Hobbs meter 226.9 > > take off rolls est @ 250, climb out speed 45-50, rate of climb avg > 350-400 fpm > > avg cruise speed 52-55 mph, did not do any WOT level flight. > > Max oil temps hit 245-250 on WOT climbs. Avg cruise oil temps were > 225-235. Oil temps are too high, a larger oil cooler will be needed. > > Verified fuel burn avg was 1.9 gal/hr. Used 6.7 gal, 3.7 hrs engine > on. > > Flew a total of 163.6 miles, 5 landings. Alvin (6R5) to Bailes > (7R9) to Masomilliano to Brookshire (12R) to Houston Skydive to Alvin > > 6/23/08 > > 1630 hrs/temp 87/winds 170 @ 8 mph > > Total flight time .7 hrs, 1 landing, Hobbs meter 227.6 > > No changes from the previous flights regarding take-off distance, > climb rate, or oil temps. I changed the oil today to a synthetic 10- > w30, oil temps were the same. > > Valley Engineering is sending me a 48 plate oil cooler to replace my > current cooler. Hopefully this should bring the oil temps down. > > 6/27/08 > > 1430 hrs/temp 92/winds 150 @16 mph > > Total flight time 1.8 hrs, 2 landings, Hobbs meter 229.4 > > A little windy today, but manageable flying conditions. I installed > a Tiny Tach so I can now monitor my RPMs. I found my prop needs to > be pitched stronger, as on take off climb rpms were 3750-3820, at > WOT level flight they would hit 3860-3890. Should be max rpms of > 3720 on WOT straight & level. > > > 6/28/08 > > 0800 hrs/temp78/winds 170 @ 10 mph, air temps had reached 90 at > final landing around 2 pm. > > Total flight time 1.8 hrs, 4 landings, Hobbs 231.6 > > Take off rpms @ 3650, WOT rpms @ 3730, just about right on the prop > adjustment. Some improvement in take off distance and climb as a > result. Climb rate was around 350-400 fpm. Improvements in cruise > and WOT speeds, 3400 rpm cruise got 56-60 mph, WOT to 63-65 mph. At > 3100 rpm I was getting 50 mph IAS. Oil temps never got over 230. Im > happy with the improvements in performance with the properly > adjusted prop pitch. > > 6/29/08 > > 1200 hrs/temp 88/winds light & variable. > > Total flight time 1 hr, 2 landings, Hobbs 232.6 > > Quick flight to Bailes Field in Angleton, about 22 minutes from > Alvin. Oil temps seem to be doing slightly better each day. Never > got over 230, but never got under 220.. All the speeds and rpm > numbers are running the same, 3000 rpm will just barely maintain > straight & level, 3300-3400 seems about right for normal cruise, ASI > reads 53-58 in that range. Engine is performing well, nice sound, > much quieter than the 503, I can hear myself and others on the > headset much better. Bailes has 100 markers on the runway, and I > tried a short field take-off and lifted the wheels right at 300 ft. > Again, not as hot as the 503. Climb out rate with the new prop > setting is running 300-400 fpm. > > > 7/2/08 > > 1600 hrs/temp 88/winds 180 @ 10 mph > > Total flight time 1.1 hr, 1 landing, Hobbs 234.3 > > Installed the larger oil cooler today and did static run ups for 30 > minutes. Oil temps never went higher than 185 degrees at WOT for > extended time periods. I ran the engine from the stock impulse pump > to see if it would pull fuel. Engine dies at higher rpms, so I am > totally dependent on the elect. pump at this time. > > Take off rpm still 3650, WOT rpm 3720 - 3750. No changes in any > performance #s, but engine oil temps are under control. I did a lot > of extended climbs at 3600 rpm, highest oil temp reading was 180. It > took about 3300 rpm to maintain straight and level flight today in > very hot, muggy air. > > 7/4/08 > > 0730 hrs/temps 76 start, 88 end/winds 190 @ 8 mph > > Total flight time 2.9 hrs, 4 landings, Hobbs 237.4 > > I took off with a max. fuel load, 12 gal. Take off roll longer than > normal, around 400 to 450 ft, 250-350 fpm climb. Grass runway was > wet and needs mowing. I believe the runway conditions along with max > fuel weight added substantially to take-off distance. The goal today > was to go on a 3 hr minimum flight. Weather was nice and smooth > until the last hour of flight when Gulf showers started building and > it got turbulent. > > Oil temps are staying at 175-180 regardless of cruise or climb rpms. > 3300 to 3450 looks like the best cruise rpms, with airspeeds at > 54-58 mph. Plane handled nicely. I did 2 take-offs/landings at > Angleton on a well -mowed dry grass strip with 100 markers. I > needed to prepare for my upcoming Nauga Fly-In trip which has 1450 > ft. runways with 80 trees at both ends. Take off roll was 300 -350 > ft, and I estimated I could clear an 80 ft. obstacle at 1100-1200 ft. > I flew a total of 140 miles departing Alvin Airpark (6r5), landed at > Bay City (BYY), on to the Texas coast, turning NE to Freeport, north > to do landings at Angleton, (7R9) and back to Alvin. > > 7/6/08 > > 0800 hrs/temp 77 start, 91 end/winds 150 @ 11 > > Total flight time 4 hrs, 4 landings, Hobbs 241.6 > > Take off roll 400, 300-400 fpm climb out. All performance data is > staying the same. > > I flew from Alvin to Brookshire, (12R) topped off fuel there and > headed west to 10 miles short of Columbus, had rain clouds ahead so > turned SE to the San Bernard River, following it SE to Wharton > County, from there E to Angleton, then back to Alvin. Worked on the > plane a bit and flew for another hour local. > > 7/13 & 14/08 > > 0700 hrs/temp 81 start, 94 end/winds 210 @ 12 > > Total flight time for 2 days, 12.3 hrs, 9 landings, 610 miles, Hobbs > 253.9 > > I flew to the Nauga Fly-In, St. Francisville LA, hosted by John > Bickham. The engine performed fine throughout the trip, with the > exception of climb out rates. Went through 26.05 gal of fuel, avg. > 2.12/gph. The maximum altitude I flew at was 4500 heading home. The > engine wants to cruise between 3350 and 3420 rpm. > > Nauga Field is 1450 long with 80 trees at both ends. I was > concerned with my reduced climb out rate at this field. I had 4 gal > of fuel on board and no extra baggage. I successfully took off 2 > times out of Nauga, first one at 6 pm with temps in the low 90s, > second one at 8 am Sunday with the temps near 75. I would guess I > cleared the trees by 50 on both take-offs. It felt closer than that > and may have been. I would not want to take off there in my plane > with this engine on a regular basis. This type of field is where the > engine needs 10 to 15 more HP. On any field with minimum 1000 > lengths and no obstructions it is fine, but in tight holes like > Nauga it is tough. The 503 would have blasted out of there without > any problem. > > Engine Summary: > > Total testing hrs, 34 > Avg fuel burn, 2 gph > best cruise rpm, 3300-3450, producing 53-58 mph. > 3600 rpm climb out, avg 250-400 fpm > 3730 rpm WOT straight & level flight, top speed 67 mph. > Minimum rpm required to maintain altitude, around 3000, dependent on > air > Max oil temp, 180 > Cost, including prop, installation, and necessary engine mount fab > work, $5200.00 > Estimated TBO is 1500 hrs. > > End of Engine Testing Report > > In summary, I'm happy with my purchase. Gene and Larry Smith were > great help and did a super job, and I would highly recommend them. > They are working on a turbo-charged version which hopefully will > come together over the next year. That may add the additional 10 -15 > HP which should improve the climb out rate, the only drawback in > performance I have experienced with this engine vs. the 503. If you > have to climb out of tight strips all the time, this is not the > engine for you. However if you regularly fly from fields with little > or no obstructions, I think it's a good alternative. The best bonus > is, I have doubled my range without adding fuel tanks. 2 gph is nice. > > > Jimmy Young > Kolb FS II > N7043P > Houston, TX > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:30 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Nauga 2008 Hi Gang: Again, we had a ball at the Nauga Field Fly Around 2008. This year was as good as last year, and we did not have to contend with rain. Got a little warm, but the old hunting camp has central air. Here's a few photos from the Fly Around: Our gracious hosts, John and Sandy Bickham. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__02.JPG Nauga flightline. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__03.JPG http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__04.JPG Gary Haley's MKIII. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__06.JPG Jimmy Young heading to False River Airport, across the Mississippi River, for a cat fish lunch on Saturday. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__07.JPG St Francisville, LA, ferry boat, slowly being replaced by a new bridge over the Mississippi. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__08.JPG This photo does not give one the true size of the tug and tow. Count the barges. There are 35 of them. Wish I had something in the photo to give the true size of one of these barges. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__09.JPG Star Hill locals seeking relief from the heat. The local non-flying populace is an intergral part of the flyin. They enjoy watching us fly as much as we enjoy flying for them. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__10.JPG Bruce C, a local participant for both flyins. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__11.JPG John B gets his mkIII ready to fly. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__12.JPG Jimmy Young contemplates how to make this infernal gas pumping machine work. We flew over to False River to top off the fuel tanks prior to departing for Texas and Alabama. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__12.JPG john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:55 AM PST US From: Scott Perkins <2scott@bellsouth.net> Subject: Kolb-List: TERRIER_Marc wants to join KolbUltrastar Welcome! Glad to hear from you. I think it is a great complement that someone in France is inspired by the Ultrastar design. We would like to hear all details of any improvements or enhancements they have made so please inform us and take many pictures ! Thanks Scott Perkins pictures of French Pulsar I attached -------------------- Hello, Email address: TERRIER_Marc Comment from user: I'going to buy a Pulsar I ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:38 AM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Jimmy will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember him telling me it was a wrist pin failure. On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:00 AM, George Alexander wrote: > > Jimmy: > For the benefit of those of us who are still tied to the R503s...... > Was there a determination made as to what caused yours to fail? > Thanks, > > > Jimmy Young wrote: > > Hi to all, > > > > Last Memorial Day weekend I had an engine failure on my Rotax 503. > > landed off-field with no problems other than a change of underwear. My > > 503 had 205 hrs. on it when it failed. I had been contemplating > > getting a 4 stroke engine when my 300 hr. rebuild came due, so this > > just sped up the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jimmy Young > > Kolb FS II > > N7043P > > Houston, TX > > > -------- > George Alexander > FS II R503 N709FS > http://gtalexander.home.att.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193068#193068 > > -- Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um.... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:39 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "JetPilot" Your detailed reports on the Genrac engine are very good information for anyone that is considering using something other than a 503 on a Firestar. Unfortunately, given your reports this seems to be a very poor engine choice for a Kolb. The very poor climb rate with the Genrac engine leaves you very vulnerable on takeoff, if you lose the engine on takeoff you will find yourself much lower, and with less landing options than you would with the 503 or with the HKS. Belt re-drives for props are notorious for being unreliable and points of failure, I would not buy any engine that used a belt re-drive for the prop. Being dependent on the electric fuel pump is not a great thing, electric pumps themselves are extremely dependable, the the electrical systems that drive them are not. The electric facet pump is also very sensitive to any kind of debris in the fuel stopping it from pumping, make sure you have a good fuel filter before that pump. Given the high price of the Genrac engine, spending a little extra for the HKS would be a no brainer for me. The extra reliability, extra power, and extra safety of the HKS all make it a much better engine choice for a Kolb, even if it is about 3000 dollars more. JettPilot -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193125#193125 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:50 AM PST US From: Jimmy Young Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Eugene Zimmerman asked: >Does your plane still have the wing fold capability?< Eugene, I have to remove the oil filter to fold the right wing, but I just tape a baggie over the opening and it's easy to do. I very rarely fold it since I keep it in a hanger. George Alexander asked: >Was there a determination made as to what caused the 503 to fail?< George, Some of the local guys in my flying club think the wrist pin failed or the "circlip" came loose, causing the #1piston to get damaged. The piston skirt was broken off all the way around and the engine was full of ground up aluminum. The 503 had 205 hrs. on it at the time of it's demise and was running perfectly up until about 1 second before it quit. I've been busy doing other things, but one day I'll get around to looking inside and let you know what we found. I'm attaching a photo of the front cylinder looking thru the intake manifold. Jimmy Y ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s From: "JetPilot" I have never even seen a dust devil here in Miami, so I know very little about them. Were you 5500 feet AGL ? I had no idea that a dust devil would even go that high, I can only imagine what flying through one would be like at low level. Did the Challenger crash just because of the low altitude, or did it cause any kind of structural failure before the airplane hit ? I see these big dust devils going across the desert on TV, I have always wanted to fly one of my RC planes through one of those :) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193133#193133 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:53 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II On Jul 16, 2008, at 12:59 PM, JetPilot wrote: > Given the high price of the Genrac engine, spending a little extra > for the HKS would be a no brainer for me. Unlike you, not all Kolb pilots operate by the "no brainer" principle. Homer himself being chief among them. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s From: "Ralph B" Several years ago, I passed over a dust devil that was on the ground over the airfield as I was landing. I dropped about 20 feet as I went over. Luckily, I had enough altitude. Since then, I avoid them. -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 21 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 0 years flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193139#193139 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "JetPilot" ez(at)embarqmail.com wrote: > > > Unlike you, not all Kolb pilots operate by the "no brainer" principle. > Homer himself being chief among them. > > Just in case you have a problem understanding simple English, " No brainer " in this scentence means " Easy Choice ", not a principle. Given the data, the HKS is clearly a much superrior engine to the genrac, and it is an easy choice between the two. If you disagree, then sign your name to your post, and go out and buy a genrac to put on your firestar, you will deserve the results you get. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193148#193148 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:22 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Nice thing about the Generac is that it can be bought stock for little over 2k..Likely found at the salvage yard in need of an overhaul in the coming months and years...They usually sell by weight there..100 lbs would be 20 dollars currently...have my eyes open...:-) the other thing is that the Valley redirve is not rocket science and can be duplicated for 500 bucks by someone with a lathe and mill and the skill.. I like the multi vee belt ...Have used them with good servicability in the past.. My G50 Zenoah had one...My buddies flying F23 Hirth engines use them also.. I can see,therefore, that the Generac can be flying by someone with a modicum of mechanical skill for a lot less than the 5k or so that Valley Engineering wants.. A trade off to be sure...but not a bad one...lots of planes fall into the 4 to 500 ft per minute rate of climb... My little N3 Pup for one...has a half vw...less than 2 gph . Great little bird... Herb At 01:22 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote: > > >ez(at)embarqmail.com wrote: > > > > > > Unlike you, not all Kolb pilots operate by the "no brainer" principle. > > Homer himself being chief among them. > > > > > > >Just in case you have a problem understanding simple English, " No >brainer " in this scentence means " Easy Choice ", not a principle. > >Given the data, the HKS is clearly a much superrior engine to the >genrac, and it is an easy choice between the two. > >If you disagree, then sign your name to your post, and go out and >buy a genrac to put on your firestar, you will deserve the results you get. > >Mike > >-------- >"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as >you could have !!! > >Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193148#193148 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:42 PM PST US From: Bart Morgan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Have you checked the installed price of a HKS recently? It is going to be almost $11000.00 Bart Morgan FS II [in progress] Do not archive JetPilot wrote: Your detailed reports on the Genrac engine are very good information for anyone that is considering using something other than a 503 on a Firestar. Unfortunately, given your reports this seems to be a very poor engine choice for a Kolb. The very poor climb rate with the Genrac engine leaves you very vulnerable on takeoff, if you lose the engine on takeoff you will find yourself much lower, and with less landing options than you would with the 503 or with the HKS. Belt re-drives for props are notorious for being unreliable and points of failure, I would not buy any engine that used a belt re-drive for the prop. Being dependent on the electric fuel pump is not a great thing, electric pumps themselves are extremely dependable, the the electrical systems that drive them are not. The electric facet pump is also very sensitive to any kind of debris in the fuel stopping it from pumping, make sure you have a good fuel filter before that pump. Given the high price of the Genrac engine, spending a little extra for the HKS would be a no brainer for me. The extra reliability, extra power, and extra safety of the HKS all make it a much better engine choice for a Kolb, even if it is about 3000 dollars more. JettPilot -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193125#193125 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:29 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II If it's a principle we are looking for, it comes under the "different strokes for.....etc" A compromise will be found by a sensible guy to do what works best for him. Sure a 912 would be superior engine to my suzuki, but my type of flying, just casual jaunts in the countryside and evening rides, makes a (much) cheaper mill perfectly suitable. I have no need for 1200' climb, especially here at 600' msl. You can always find a faster, more powerful, more agile airplane, Barnstormers has lots of them. I check the radiator and the dipstick and what's wiggling loose and that's it for maintenance. I don't plan on ever overhauling it again. I think the generac will attract more builders. BB On 16, Jul 2008, at 2:22 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > > ez(at)embarqmail.com wrote: >> >> >> Unlike you, not all Kolb pilots operate by the "no brainer" >> principle. >> Homer himself being chief among them. >> >> > > > Just in case you have a problem understanding simple English, " No > brainer " in this scentence means " Easy Choice ", not a principle. > > Given the data, the HKS is clearly a much superrior engine to the > genrac, and it is an easy choice between the two. > > If you disagree, then sign your name to your post, and go out and > buy a genrac to put on your firestar, you will deserve the results > you get. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193148#193148 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:37 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting Just an inquiry, Tuesday evening about 8:00 pm while flying the MK-3 near Dalton Ohio we saw what we believe to be a dark colored Firestar headed south over Rt.30.Are there any listers who fly in this area?Our club has 1 kolb flying and 3 MK-3s under construction.Our club fly-in drive -in picnic is Sat. afternoon, Aug. 2 @ Yoder field in Louisville Ohio.We would like to invite any Kolb operators in the area to join us More info at ( North coast lite flyers.org) Thanx G .Aman Mk-3C 2200 Jabiru 330 hrs. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jimmy Young Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:29:48 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Eugene Zimmerman asked: >Does your plane still have the wing fold capability?< Eugene, I have to remove the oil filter to fold the right wing, but I just tape a baggie over the opening and it's easy to do. I very rarely fold it since I keep it in a hanger. George Alexander asked: >Was there a determination made as to what caused the 503 to fail?< George, Some of the local guys in my flying club think the wrist pin failed or the "circlip" came loose, causing the #1piston to get damaged. The piston skirt was broken off all the way around and the engine was full of ground up aluminum. The 503 had 205 hrs. on it at the time of it's demise and was running perfectly up until about 1 second before it quit. I've been busy doing other things, but one day I'll get around to looking inside and let you know what we found. I'm attaching a photo of the front cylinder looking thru the intake manifold. Jimmy Y ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:03 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting Sorry, Web site is liteflyers.org. USUA club#027 ----- Original Message ---- From: gary aman Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:40:11 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting Just an inquiry, Tuesday evening about 8:00 pm while flying the MK-3 near Dalton Ohio we saw what we believe to be a dark colored Firestar headed south over Rt.30.Are there any listers who fly in this area?Our club has 1 kolb flying and 3 MK-3s under construction.Our club fly-in drive -in picnic is Sat. afternoon, Aug. 2 @ Yoder field in Louisville Ohio.We would like to invite any Kolb operators in the area to join us More info at ( North coast lite flyers.org) Thanx G .Aman Mk-3C 2200 Jabiru 330 hrs. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jimmy Young Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:29:48 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Eugene Zimmerman asked: >Does your plane still have the wing fold capability?< Eugene, I have to remove the oil filter to fold the right wing, but I just tape a baggie over the opening and it's easy to do. I very rarely fold it since I keep it in a hanger. George Alexander asked: >Was there a determination made as to what caused the 503 to fail?< George, Some of the local guys in my flying club think the wrist pin failed or the "circlip" came loose, causing the #1piston to get damaged. The piston skirt was broken off all the way around and the engine was full of ground up aluminum. The 503 had 205 hrs. on it at the time of it's demise and was running perfectly up until about 1 second before it quit. I've been busy doing other things, but one day I'll get around to looking inside and let you know what we found. I'm attaching a photo of the front cylinder looking thru the intake manifold. Jimmy Y ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:12 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Mike(jetPilot) You tend to get all wound up in expressing your opinions. It would also be nice to know were you have gained such iron clad knowledge. I for one think this is wonderful. A affordable reliable engine alternative for a Firestar II. Knowing how those redrives work the load on the engine is the same as the load it would encounter as a generator maybe even less. These engines run hundreds if not thousands of hours with very limited maintenance so they should be very reliable. I would expect that if there were problems with the Generac engine you would see it coming hundreds of hours before it would fail, with the possible exception of failure within the first few hours of use. I use the same type of redrive on my VW and can't understand how they could be unreliable. They do require some maintenance and tuning from time to time. It's just something you work with like changing oil or spark plugs. I would venture a guess that you could see a belt wearing to the point of failure easer than a Rotax driver could see those rubber carburetor sockets getting ready to throw a carb. As for the HKS I watched the HKS distributor try to fix his HKS in a Kit Fox for hours after it got sick a few miles out of Oshkosh. It was just teething issues but even that engine isn't bullet proof. I also have a electric only fuel pump on my VW. I would prefer a mechanical pump with a electric backup but I have tried to minimize the failure potential with two electric pumps with two electric sources. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II > > Your detailed reports on the Genrac engine are very good information for > anyone that is considering using something other than a 503 on a Firestar. > Unfortunately, given your reports this seems to be a very poor engine > choice for a Kolb. > > The very poor climb rate with the Genrac engine leaves you very vulnerable > on takeoff, if you lose the engine on takeoff you will find yourself much > lower, and with less landing options than you would with the 503 or with > the HKS. > > Belt re-drives for props are notorious for being unreliable and points of > failure, I would not buy any engine that used a belt re-drive for the > prop. Being dependent on the electric fuel pump is not a great thing, > electric pumps themselves are extremely dependable, the the electrical > systems that drive them are not. The electric facet pump is also very > sensitive to any kind of debris in the fuel stopping it from pumping, make > sure you have a good fuel filter before that pump. > > Given the high price of the Genrac engine, spending a little extra for the > HKS would be a no brainer for me. The extra reliability, extra power, and > extra safety of the HKS all make it a much better engine choice for a > Kolb, even if it is about 3000 dollars more. > > JettPilot > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193125#193125 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:58 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II > I for one think this is wonderful. A affordable reliable engine alternative > for a Firestar II. Knowing how those redrives work the load on the engine > is the same as the load it would encounter as a generator maybe even less. > These engines run hundreds if not thousands of hours with very limited > maintenance so they should be very reliable. > Rick Neilsen Hi Rick: I think I'll sit back and watch the hours being amassed on the Generac and redrive before I decide how affordable and reliable it really is compared to the alternatives that are out there now. The Generac powered FS barely made it out of Nauga Field, 1500 ft grass, 40 ft ASL, empty. I'm not knocking my good friend Jimmy Young or his power plant and redrive. Simply stating what I observed. Two GPH is great fuel economy, but cutting the fuel burn in half has also cut the performance in half. Personally, I would perfer more performance. The performance and reliability data base on the Generac, powering an airplane, is probably pretty small. Will take a while for it to present some realistic figures. Now.......two Generacs on a FS would be the way to go. ;-) john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:29 PM PST US From: Jerry Jones Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting G Aman, I'm not the guy you're asking about....but, I'm flying behind a Jab 2200 and wondered how a Mk3 would perform with it mounted. What can you say about your setup relative to an 80 hp 912, pros and cons, suitability, etc.? Jerry On Jul 16, 2008, at 12:40 PM, gary aman wrote: > Just an inquiry, > Tuesday evening about 8:00 pm while flying the MK-3 near Dalton > Ohio we saw what we believe to be a dark colored Firestar headed > south over Rt.30.Are there any listers who fly in this area?Our > club has 1 kolb flying and 3 MK-3s under construction.Our club fly- > in drive -in picnic is Sat. afternoon, Aug. 2 @ Yoder field in > Louisville Ohio.We would like to invite any Kolb operators in the > area to join us More info at ( North coast lite flyers.org) > Thanx G .Aman Mk-3C 2200 Jabiru > 330 hrs. > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:59 PM PST US From: Jerry Jones Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II .....and, Robert (BB), what do you have your Suzuki mounted on, how's you like it, how's it perform? Former Firestar (503) driver, Kolb aficionado/wannabee(?), Jerry > > If it's a principle we are looking for, it comes under the > "different strokes for.....etc" > A compromise will be found by a sensible guy to do what works best > for him. > Sure a 912 would be superior engine to my suzuki, but my type of > flying, just casual jaunts > in the countryside and evening rides, makes a (much) cheaper mill > perfectly suitable. > > I have no need for 1200' climb, especially here at 600' msl. You > can always find a faster, > more powerful, more agile airplane, Barnstormers has lots of them. > > I check the radiator and the dipstick and what's wiggling loose and > that's it for maintenance. > I don't plan on ever overhauling it again. > > I think the generac will attract more builders. > BB > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:39 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s From: "lucien" Ralph B wrote: > Several years ago, I passed over a dust devil that was on the ground over the airfield as I was landing. I dropped about 20 feet as I went over. Luckily, I had enough altitude. Since then, I avoid them. I've flown through a couple in a glider, pretty much a non-event (at least in the air) I suppose due to the long wing and thus exceptional stability. In a powered plane its a different story. Flew through one with a friend of mine in a 172 last summer on takeoff. Tried to tump the plane over, was quite a wild ride. Dust devils are a way of life here in the summer, even the biz jets go around when a dust devil forms off the approach end of a runway or pretty much when there's any chance of hitting one on landing. I'm a morning/evening pilot in summer for that reason...... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193215#193215 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "JetPilot" Rick, I have seen and known enough people that have had forced landings with belt redrive systems to know they are very weak link, even when paired with a good engine. You even had a forced landing due to a redrive failure if I remember correctly. One case does not make a trend, but there are many reports out there with results similar to yours " Forced landing due to Redrive failure " ... Due to Belts broken unexpectedly. Bearings failing suddenly. Pulleys coming loose Failures of the redrive for different engines is typical for many engine - redrive systems. The Genrac may be very reliable in generators, or maybe not, most generator operators do not report their reliability problems. If the belt drive quits on a generator, it is a simple and cheap repair that you never hear anything about. We definitelyy do not know how reliable the Genrac is on airplanes yet ( Redrive ). Haven marginal power is a proven safety hazard in airplanes, we know that much right now, add that to the historic problems with a Redrive and it starts to look like a really bad option. At 5000 dollars the Genrac is not by any means a cheap engine. If is was going to spend that much money on an engine I would just spend the extra 3000 dollars and get an engine with the performance, and proven reliability of the HKS. I have a lot of respect for Jimmy posting very honest and good performance information on the Genrac engine, it is exactly what this list is all about, so that others can learn and make whatever engine choice is right for their Kolb. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193223#193223 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:25 PM PST US From: "William and/or Justina Fyfe" Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III and / or Kolbra in Oregon? Hello, I really want to experience a Mark III and/or Kolbra up close and personal. I live in Grants Pass, Oregon, (3S8). Does anybody here live near by that would like to show me around their airplane? Thanks! Bill Grants Pass, Oregon ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:57 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II John/Mike You guys are right it is too early to claim the the package is ready for everybody. I want it so much that I get carried away but Jimmy is on the right track. I have a feeling that there is more performance available with other prop redrive ratios. Proper prop selection is a very difficult and expensive task. I also agree that a Kolb is something less than a Kolb when under powered. Maybe there will be more powerful alternative engines at some point. I watched the Genrac powered PPC fly at Sun N Fun and I was struck with how refined that engine starts and runs. Yes I did have a redrive mount crack causing a forced landing a few years ago I never made a secret of it. This was primarily caused by me using a prop that wasn't recommended. Gene and Larry Smith at Valley have really tried to build reliable redrives. They stand behind their redrives and I know they fix any problems that turn up. The redrive that had the bracket failure was a series two redrive. The bracket on my original redrive that cracked was 3\8 thick and all the new ones are 5\8 thick. The new series three redrive I have has two belts each capable of driving the redrive. The bearings on the my redrive are automotive front wheel drive wheel bearings designed so that they are more than capable of the mission. Also these redrives are heavily tested on airboats or their prop powered buggy before they are ever put on a airplane. We have discussed belt redrives before and if you can't except that they can be reliable don't buy them. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:02 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II > > Rick, > > I have seen and known enough people that have had forced landings with > belt redrive systems to know they are very weak link, even when paired > with a good engine. > > You even had a forced landing due to a redrive failure if I remember > correctly. One case does not make a trend, but there are many reports out > there with results similar to yours " Forced landing due to Redrive > failure " ... Due to > > Belts broken unexpectedly. > Bearings failing suddenly. > Pulleys coming loose > > Failures of the redrive for different engines is typical for many > engine - redrive systems. The Genrac may be very reliable in generators, > or maybe not, most generator operators do not report their reliability > problems. If the belt drive quits on a generator, it is a simple and > cheap repair that you never hear anything about. We definitelyy do not > know how reliable the Genrac is on airplanes yet ( Redrive ). Haven > marginal power is a proven safety hazard in airplanes, we know that much > right now, add that to the historic problems with a Redrive and it starts > to look like a really bad option. At 5000 dollars the Genrac is not by > any means a cheap engine. If is was going to spend that much money on an > engine I would just spend the extra 3000 dollars and get an engine with > the performance, and proven reliability of the HKS. > > I have a lot of respect for Jimmy posting very honest and good performance > information on the Genrac engine, it is exactly what this list is all > about, so that others can learn and make whatever engine choice is right > for their Kolb. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193223#193223 > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:51 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting Jerry, I haven't flown a mk-3 with a 912 on it so I can't give you an opinion.But the jabiru is a simpler install,air cooled, a tough and dependable unit.The only draw back is prop speed and the noise that it produces.When you spin a prop at 3100 behind a Kolb it really gets your attention. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jerry Jones Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:07:09 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting G Aman, I'm not the guy you're asking about....but, I'm flying behind a Jab 2200 and wondered how a Mk3 would perform with it mounted. What can you say about your setup relative to an 80 hp 912, pros and cons, suitability, etc.? Jerry On Jul 16, 2008, at 12:40 PM, gary aman wrote: Just an inquiry, Tuesday evening about 8:00 pm while flying the MK-3 near Dalton Ohio we saw what we believe to be a dark colored Firestar headed south over Rt.30.Are there any listers who fly in this area?Our club has 1 kolb flying and 3 MK-3s under construction.Our club fly-in drive -in picnic is Sat. afternoon, Aug. 2 @ Yoder field in Louisville Ohio.We would like to invite any Kolb operators in the area to join us More info at ( North coast lite flyers.org) Thanx G .Aman Mk-3C 2200 Jabiru 330 hrs. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:15 PM PST US From: Jerry Jones Subject: Kolb-List: Fwd: SAIB NE-08-36 - Bombardier-Rotax This Rotax Special Airworthiness Bulletin was forwarded to me by an FAA friend. You 912 drivers may already know about it, but if not.... Jerry Begin forwarded message:
________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:33 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Some certified aircraft fly with belt redrives everyday.Brantly comes to mind first ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:32:25 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II John/Mike You guys are right it is too early to claim the the package is ready for everybody. I want it so much that I get carried away but Jimmy is on the right track. I have a feeling that there is more performance available with other prop redrive ratios. Proper prop selection is a very difficult and expensive task. I also agree that a Kolb is something less than a Kolb when under powered. Maybe there will be more powerful alternative engines at some point. I watched the Genrac powered PPC fly at Sun N Fun and I was struck with how refined that engine starts and runs. Yes I did have a redrive mount crack causing a forced landing a few years ago I never made a secret of it. This was primarily caused by me using a prop that wasn't recommended. Gene and Larry Smith at Valley have really tried to build reliable redrives. They stand behind their redrives and I know they fix any problems that turn up. The redrive that had the bracket failure was a series two redrive. The bracket on my original redrive that cracked was 3\8 thick and all the new ones are 5\8 thick. The new series three redrive I have has two belts each capable of driving the redrive. The bearings on the my redrive are automotive front wheel drive wheel bearings designed so that they are more than capable of the mission. Also these redrives are heavily tested on airboats or their prop powered buggy before they are ever put on a airplane. We have discussed belt redrives before and if you can't except that they can be reliable don't buy them. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:02 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II > > Rick, > > I have seen and known enough people that have had forced landings with > belt redrive systems to know they are very weak link, even when paired > with a good engine. > > You even had a forced landing due to a redrive failure if I remember > correctly. One case does not make a trend, but there are many reports out > there with results similar to yours " Forced landing due to Redrive > failure " ... Due to > > Belts broken unexpectedly. > Bearings failing suddenly. > Pulleys coming loose > > Failures of the redrive for different engines is typical for many > engine - redrive systems. The Genrac may be very reliable in generators, > or maybe not, most generator operators do not report their reliability > problems. If the belt drive quits on a generator, it is a simple and > cheap repair that you never hear anything about. We definitelyy do not > know how reliable the Genrac is on airplanes yet ( Redrive ). Haven > marginal power is a proven safety hazard in airplanes, we know that much > right now, add that to the historic problems with a Redrive and it starts > to look like a really bad option. At 5000 dollars the Genrac is not by > any means a cheap engine. If is was going to spend that much money on an > engine I would just spend the extra 3000 dollars and get an engine with > the performance, and proven reliability of the HKS. > > I have a lot of respect for Jimmy posting very honest and good performance > information on the Genrac engine, it is exactly what this list is all > about, so that others can learn and make whatever engine choice is right > for their Kolb. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193223#193223 > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:42 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Kolb-List: Re At 09:32 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote: > > >John/Mike > > Proper prop selection is a very difficult and expensive task. > >Rick Neilsen I would like to buy the blades 3 or the whole prop (Warp Dive only) - since it is easier to cut & grind & we have the facilities to do it. Need three 68 inch up to a 72 inch radis Warp Blades. Some damage OK since we are going to cut & grind them anyway. Any of you guys got one you would like to sale - cheap. The Prop noise is what we are really interested in. Already looked at BarnStormers. May not amount to anything.but you never know. >http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/07/11/wind-turbine-whale.html "But the finding has lots of applications on land, too. Putting bumps across the leading edge of a wind turbine means the blades can be oriented at a higher angle to capture more of the wind without worrying about stall -- which can damage the turbines. They are also targeting industrial fans. "We can move more air and ventilate more area with fewer blades. The whale-inspired fans also use 20 percent less power and operate with one-fifth the noise of a standard fan, Dewar said." ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:43 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Re From: "Tom Jones" Whale fin wing. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193285#193285 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/whale_bump_wing_333.jpg ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:05 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting/Jabiru Powered MKIII I haven't flown a mk-3 with a 912 on it so I can't give you an opinion.B ut the jabiru is a simpler install,air cooled, a tough and dependable unit. The only draw back is prop speed and the noise that it produces.When you sp in a prop at 3100 behind a Kolb it really gets your attention. G Aman, Gary: I don't think Rick Neilsen had either, not until I took him flying out of G oulding's, Monument Valley, UT. Rick was quite surprised when we blasted o ut of the 5,190 ft MSL airstrip. There is a lot of difference flying a Kolb with a direct drive and a redriv e engine. In the early days, John Williamson had a Jabiru direct drive on his Kolbra. My 912ULS powered MKIII would eat him up in take off, climb an d cruise was about the same, once John W got the Kolbra up to altitude and speed. Think it was May 2005, I met John W at Canon City, CO. We departed the nex t morning for Leadville, CO, highest airport in the North American Continen t. John W took off and left me in his dust, take off, climb, and cruise. Amazing what the 912ULS did for the Kolbra. The greatest improvement in th e Kolbra performance was going from a short two blade high rpm prop to a bi g three blade slow turning prop. The 912 series engines are also simple to install. The coolant radiator ha s never been a problem since I hung the first one on a Kolb. A direct driv e engine will never perform on the same level as a redrive engine on a MKII I or any other model Kolb. Short, high rpm, two blade props can not compete with slower turning long t wo and three blade props. Just the way it works out. Rick Neilsen started out with a direct drive VW, then went to a redrive. A sk Rick how much difference in performance the redrive made. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:13 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Re At 10:50 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote: > >Whale fin wing. That''s good, but VGs have got my stall speed down to 25 mph. I would like to fly backwards, but have only seen that done by my friend Greg Elliot (THE Possum) do that with a head wind on Jekyll Island (smooth off the water). No wind on the ground - so he wanted to lower a beer down to us. Had the beer, but didn't have the string (fishing line). I have got down to about 5 or 6 mph Ground speed GPS. Impressive for the guys on the ground. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8643180947591432536&hl=en ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:43 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "Mnflyer" "Some certified aircraft fly with belt redrives everyday.Brantly comes to mind first" If you are referring to the Brantly Helicopter, it is not belt driven, but the Engstrom and the Hughes 269 helicopters are belt driven -------- GB MNFlyer Flying a HKS Kitfox III Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193294#193294 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:22 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Enstrom had a big wide special use belt. A failure was catastrophic. The Hughes series uses several v belts that offer some redundancy. The early models had a manual clutch to engage the belts and the later ones had an electric engagement device (click a switch momentarily on and off until the rotor started to grab) I believe that belt system was fairly reliable and easy to visually inspect on preflight. BB do not archive On 17, Jul 2008, at 12:08 AM, Mnflyer wrote: > > "Some certified aircraft fly with belt redrives everyday.Brantly > comes to mind first" > If you are referring to the Brantly Helicopter, it is not belt > driven, but the Engstrom and the Hughes 269 helicopters are belt > driven > > -------- > GB > MNFlyer > Flying a HKS Kitfox III > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193294#193294 > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:28 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s Hi Mike, I was 5500 MSL or 1500 AGL and the challenger didn't crash it flew out of the dust devil just like I did but he came out going the opposite direction. Regards, Will Uribe FireStar II do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I flew my FireStar into a dust devil and almost ended in a s I have never even seen a dust devil here in Miami, so I know very little about them. Were you 5500 feet AGL ? I had no idea that a dust devil would even go that high, I can only imagine what flying through one would be like at low level. Did the Challenger crash just because of the low altitude, or did it cause any kind of structural failure before the airplane hit ? **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! 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