---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/18/08: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:16 AM - Re: kolb sighting/Jabiru Powered MKIII (Thom Riddle) 2. 05:34 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (grantr) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: kolb sighting/Jabiru Powered MKIII (gary aman) 4. 06:32 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (grantr) 5. 07:22 AM - Oshkosh 2008 (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 6. 07:49 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2008 (John Hauck) 7. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Jack B. Hart) 8. 08:05 AM - Re: static thrust question (gliderx5@comcast.net) 9. 08:12 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (George Alexander) 10. 09:14 AM - 2008 Father's Day Gathering at the Kolb Farm (George T. Alexander, Jr.) 11. 09:50 AM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (JetPilot) 12. 09:55 AM - Re: Flying into Dust Devils (JetPilot) 13. 09:55 AM - Re: 2008 Father's Day Gathering at the Kolb Farm (John Hauck) 14. 10:04 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2008 (Jim Dunn) 15. 10:07 AM - Re: Nauga 2008 (JetPilot) 16. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Jack B. Hart) 17. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Flying into Dust Devils (John Hauck) 18. 12:00 PM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (grantr) 19. 12:01 PM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (grantr) 20. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (robert bean) 21. 12:24 PM - Fantastic as usual !! (TK) 22. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (Larry Cottrell) 23. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Nauga 2008 (possums) 24. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Nauga 2008 (gary aman) 25. 06:37 PM - New Battery Holder in FireFly (Jack B. Hart) 26. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: Nauga 2008 (possums) 27. 07:50 PM - Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II (lucien) 28. 09:37 PM - Re: Oshkosh 2008 (DAquaNut@aol.com) 29. 10:56 PM - Electrical question - shielding (Michael Adams) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:16 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting/Jabiru Powered MKIII From: "Thom Riddle" Gaman and Ricochet, It appears that in addition to slow flight contest, short landing and take-off contests, we are now competing for most deaf Kolb aviator. For the record, you guys who are hearing challenged or impaired, you're gonna have a long ways to go to beat me in this regard. I am 100% deaf in both ears, but my bi-lateral cochlear implants enable me to converse with ATC pretty well and when I want to fly quietly, all I have to do is turn off the gadgets! do not archive -------- Thom Riddle N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- Scratch any cynic, he said, and youll find a disappointed idealist. George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193558#193558 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:09 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "grantr" > The very poor climb rate with the Genrac engine leaves you very vulnerable on takeoff, if you lose the engine on takeoff you will find yourself much lower, and with less landing options than you would with the 503 or with the HKS. > Not true. Either engine could stop at the same altitude. Climb rate just changes the time it takes to get to a certain altitude. An engine out at 300 feet is an engine out at 300 feet. [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193567#193567 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:13 AM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting/Jabiru Powered MKIII Thom,=0A You win.=0ADo not archive.=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AF rom: Thom Riddle =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:13:48 AM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: kolb sighting/J ddletr@gmail.com>=0A=0AGaman and Ricochet,=0A=0AIt appears that in addition to slow flight contest, short landing and take-off contests, we are now co mpeting for most deaf Kolb aviator. =0A=0AFor the record, you guys who are hearing challenged or impaired, you're gonna have a long ways to go to beat me in this regard. I am 100% deaf in both ears, but my bi-lateral cochlear implants enable me to converse with ATC pretty well and when I want to fly quietly, all I have to do is turn off the gadgets! =0A=0Ado not archive=0A =0A--------=0AThom Riddle=0AN221FA Allegro 2000 912UL=0AN197BG FS1/447=0A-- ------------------=0A=93Scratch any cynic,=94 he said, =93and you=92ll find a disappointed idealist.=94 =0AGeorge Carlin=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193558#193 -======================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "grantr" Here is my argument that having more engine power will not necessarily save you. Say we have 2 Kolb firestars one with a 503 and one with the Generac. Plane 1 with rotax climbs at 600 feet per min Plane 2 with Generac climbs at 300 feet per min. Flight conditions: Runway is 3600 feet long with 80 foot trees 150 off the end. Ground/ climb speed is 60mph Glide ratio is 4:1 Engine quits 15, 20, 30 and 40 seconds after takeoff. At 30 seconds the 503 would put you in the trees and the less powerful engine would allow you to land on the runway. See the attached chart. I really over analyze things sometimes [Rolling Eyes] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193584#193584 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_table_127.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:09 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2008 I will be at AirVenture "Oshkosh" camping with my plane all week. Is anyone else going to be there? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:13 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2008 Hi Rick: Have fun and have a good flight to OSH. Miss P'fer and I will not make OSH this year. Tell all the gang I said howdy. john h mkIII I will be at AirVenture "Oshkosh" camping with my plane all week. Is anyo ne else going to be there? Rick Neilsen ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:52 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Grant, At 30 seconds the 503, by your data, would be at 300 feet agl. At this height, it may be possible to do a 180 and get back to the runway. ??? Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN. do not archive At 06:30 AM 7/18/08 -0700, you wrote: > >Here is my argument that having more engine power will not necessarily save you. >Say we have 2 Kolb firestars one with a 503 and one with the Generac. >Plane 1 with rotax climbs at 600 feet per min >Plane 2 with Generac climbs at 300 feet per min. >Flight conditions: >Runway is 3600 feet long with 80 foot trees 150 off the end. >Ground/ climb speed is 60mph >Glide ratio is 4:1 >Engine quits 15, 20, 30 and 40 seconds after takeoff. >At 30 seconds the 503 would put you in the trees and the less powerful engine would allow you to land on the runway. >See the attached chart. > >I really over analyze things sometimes [Rolling Eyes] > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:41 AM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: static thrust question ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "George Alexander" Grant: Your statement from your earlier post said it all..... grantr wrote: > An engine out at 300 feet is an engine out at 300 feet.. Then you wrote....... grantr wrote: > Here is my argument that having more engine power will not necessarily save you. > > > > I really over analyze things sometimes [Rolling Eyes] Next you need to plug in a reliability factor to determine at what point each engine "might" fail after going to WOT. Don't forget to consider OAT, DA, age of fuel, age of pilot (reflex time), etc.... etc.... etc.... -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193611#193611 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:54 AM PST US From: "George T. Alexander, Jr." Subject: Kolb-List: 2008 Father's Day Gathering at the Kolb Farm Kolb Listers: The material gathered at the 2008 Father's Day Gathering has been posted to the web site: http://gtalexander.home.att.net Click on the "Homer's Fan Club" link to view all the material from the 4 times that this event has occurred. (I have reorganized the navigation from previous years. Hope it makes it easier to view.) Once again, on behalf of those who were fortunate enough to attend, I would like to thank the entire Kolb family for their hospitality. As in the past, just being there is an experience that would be hard to match. The welcoming atmosphere provided by the Kolb family makes it really special. Also would like to thank, Terry Frantz for his efforts in coordinating the event. Contributors of images in this year's edition include Marcus Kolb, Russ Kinne and Dave Starbuck. If any of you have any comments concerning the web site, please let me know. If there are errors of commission or omission in the material, let me know that too and I will try to correct them. _________________ George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://gtalexander.home.att.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:26 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "JetPilot" grantr wrote: > > > The very poor climb rate with the Genrac engine leaves you very vulnerable on takeoff, if you lose the engine on takeoff you will find yourself much lower, and with less landing options than you would with the 503 or with the HKS. > > > > > Not true. Either engine could stop at the same altitude. Climb rate just changes the time it takes to get to a certain altitude. An engine out at 300 feet is an engine out at 300 feet. [Wink] You are wrong about this Grant R, With a good climb rate, if your engine quits over the end of the runway you are much higher than you would be with less climb. Lets say your engine quits at the end of the runway, would you rather be 200 feet high, or 600 feet high ? That extra altitude would make all the difference in the world in landing options and safety. To make matters even worse with a low climb rate, you are totally Dependant on your engine running for a much longer time to achieve a safe altitude if your engine quits. Lets say you want at least 500 feet AGL to have a chance at being able to make it to a good place for an engine out landing. With good climb performance, you may only need your engine to run perfectly for 30 seconds to be at 500 feet and have good landing options. With poor performance, you are totally Dependant on the engine running for over a minute to get to the same altitude. Getting to altitude quickly is much safer. Lastly on power, having lots power to get out of trouble quickly is a proven safety advantage. There are a million unexpected things that can happen in aviation where having lots of power can save you. No one ever plans needing lots power to save their butts, but schit happens. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193634#193634 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:20 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flying into Dust Devils From: "JetPilot" When I saw him get out of the helicopter with the engine and rotor RPM high, I thought it was going to be one of those incredible accident videos like you see on TV. I don't fly helicopters, but it just seems like really bad judgment to just get out and have no one at the controls with the Rotor RPM that high... Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193636#193636 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:29 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2008 Father's Day Gathering at the Kolb Farm George A: Thank you very much for the major effort you make to share with the rest of us folks. It is especially nice to be able to participate in activities that we can n ot make in person. john h mkIII The material gathered at the 2008 Father's Day Gathering has been posted to the web site: http://gtalexander.home.att.net _________________ George Alexander ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2008 From: "Jim Dunn" I'll be there in my 1948 Bonanza, arriving with B2OSH Sat, leaving Thu. Jim Dunn Firefly N. Idaho --------------------- I will be at AirVenture "Oshkosh" camping with my plane all week. Is anyone else going to be there? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:47 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Nauga 2008 From: "JetPilot" John Hauck wrote: > Hi Gang: > > Gary Haley's MKIII. > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/Nauga%202008/__06.JPG > > Anyone know how to get a hold of Gary Haley ? I really like his dual tail wire setup, I already have the hardware to do this and would like some information on it. Thanks, Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193641#193641 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:00 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II At 09:48 AM 7/18/08 -0700, you wrote: > > >Lastly on power, having lots power to get out of trouble quickly is a proven safety advantage. There are a million unexpected things that can happen in aviation where having lots of power can save you. No one ever plans needing lots power to save their butts, but schit happens. > Mike, If you watch the FAA Accident and Incident Reports, one can not help but notice that the majority of fatal EXPERIMENTAL aircraft accidents are associated with the newer big engine, high speed kit planes. Usually a big engine is associated with higher cruise, wing loading and stall speed. All of these require greater pilot skill level and contribute to higher kinetic energies that must be carefully dissipated before contacting the ground. So, if the power quits, it is much nicer to approach the ground or a tree at 30 mph than say 55 mph with a mass of 500 lbs as apposed to 1,000 pounds. The kinetic energy that must be dissipated in the first case is 0.15 times less than in the second case. In either case all of this indicates that one should not mess around close to the ground. Fly safe. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:17 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flying into Dust Devils > I don't fly helicopters, but it just seems like really bad judgment to just get out and have no one at the controls with the Rotor RPM that high... > > Mike Mike B: I'm a little rusty with rotary wing procedures. I got out of my last one 32 years ago. However, normal procedure is friction down the cyclic and collective, after the throttle is rolled off to flight idle and the tip path plane (main rotor) is leveled, I think, with the terrain. Learned that 40 years ago, and can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:12 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "grantr" > At 30 seconds the 503, by your data, would be at 300 feet agl. At this height, it may be possible to do a 180 and get back to the runway. ??? > > That seems too low to do a 180 by the time you get setup for an approach. > With a good climb rate, if your engine quits over the end of the runway you are much higher than you would be with less climb. Lets say your engine quits at the end of the runway, would you rather be 200 feet high, or 600 feet high ? That extra altitude would make all the difference in the world in landing options and safety. I do not disagree with this. However as I pointed out in my post at a certain point more power could put you in the trees where less power could have allowed a landing on the remaining runway. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193663#193663 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "grantr" > With good climb performance, you may only need your engine to run perfectly for 30 seconds to be at 500 feet and have good landing options. With poor performance, you are totally Dependant on the engine running for over a minute to get to the same altitude. Getting to altitude quickly is much safer. True unless you are doing a steep rocketship climb out and the engine quits at low altitude and a high nose up attitude. That could lead to a deep stall and possibly a lawn dart. As you know a very steep climb out at low altitude can result in a deep stall and a unrecoverable dive into the ground if the engine fails at the right time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193664#193664 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:21 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II On 18, Jul 2008, at 2:40 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > In either case all of this indicates that one should not mess > around close > to the ground. I regretfully have to agree although the delights of low and slow are most entertaining. BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:21 PM PST US From: TK Subject: Kolb-List: Fantastic as usual !! George,, Thank you again for documenting our get together at Homer and Clara's farm this year. Your doing this gives special meaning and allows us to remember the good time had by all there. If you had not taken upon yourself to do this from the first one, we would be the poorer for it. I hope you had an enjoyable time there also!!! One very Super Web Site!!!!! Terry - FireFly #95 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:08 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II > > >> At 30 seconds the 503, by your data, would be at 300 feet agl. At this >> height, it may be possible to do a 180 and get back to the runway. ??? >> >> > > That seems too low to do a 180 by the time you get setup for an approach. > > Gang, I have already typed a reply to this thread once, and deleted it thinking that it would die and wasn't worth the effort to prolong it. I guess I was wrong, so here goes. My Firestar II weighing 401 empty, and 600 plus with me and gas can make a 180 with no more than 40 feet altitude loss. That is with a stopped engine and VG's of course. At anything higher than 200 feet, I would not hesitate to turn back. Everyone has their opinion of course, and welcome to them, but for me - give me more power! Lots of it in fact, I will find some way to deal with it. Larry C do not archive Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'... but it's only a 'penny for your thoughts'? Where's that extra penny going to? ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:30 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Nauga 2008 At 01:05 PM 7/18/2008, you wrote: >Anyone know how to get a hold of Gary Haley ? I really like his >dual tail wire setup, I already have the hardware to do this and >would like some information on it. > >Thanks, It's pretty simple to do. You can do it like this - with or without the curves in the stabilizers. You will, of course, need to put sleeves where the bolts go thru before you build the tail. - you will have to slide them in place inside the tubes before you rivet things together. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:49 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Nauga 2008 The curved tubes really look good on the horizontal.Nice touch. ----- Original Message ---- From: possums Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:25:33 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Nauga 2008 At 01:05 PM 7/18/2008, you wrote: >Anyone know how to get a hold of Gary Haley ? I really like his >dual tail wire setup, I already have the hardware to do this and >would like some information on it. > >Thanks, It's pretty simple to do. You can do it like this - with or without the curves in the stabilizers. You will, of course, need to put sleeves where the bolts go thru before you build the tail. - you will have to slide them in place inside the tubes before you rivet things together. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:13 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: New Battery Holder in FireFly Kolbers, When I went to change out an old battery on the FireFly, I ran into some problems. I decided to try and come up with something simpler and lighter. On my second attempt I came up with the following: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly142.html Ended up saving a little over a half a pound, and so I recovered my added weight for strengthening the landing gear. Flew the first time in a month today. It was just great. If I am lucky, I will fly tomorrow morning to my EAA Chapter 373 meeting in Hagarstown. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:32 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Nauga 2008 At 09:11 PM 7/18/2008, you wrote: >The curved tubes really look good on the horizontal.Nice touch. Thanks, but idea wasn't mine, I stole it from some else. do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:27 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Generac engine test data on my FS II From: "lucien" lcottrell wrote: > > Everyone has their opinion of course, and welcome to them, but for me - > give me more power! Lots of it in fact, I will find some way to deal with > it. > > Larry C > do not archive > > Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'... but it's only a 'penny for > your thoughts'? Where's that extra penny going to? My one cent.... I like lots of power, but I don't think low climb rates automatically mean reduced safety. Here at my 7000' altitude, we deal with this issue all the time, where the performance of planes is reduced generally 30 to 40% most of the time. If low climb rates were too dangerous, we'd hardly fly at all, especially the local 150's which can't even hit pattern altitude in the pattern most of the time. This was especially the case with my FS II, which gave typical climb rates of 400fpm or less even on cold clear days and with its monster warp drive prop. A couple techniques I found helpful to keep things safe: - maintain a lot of energy during liftoff and early climbout. flat climbouts with a fair bit of airspeed, only pitch up to Vy once there's enough altitude to be able to land if the power went away. - fly off to downwind side of the runway (if there's a downwind side) on upwind as early as possible. This makes the main runway accessible at lower altitudes via a 'carrier' 180 instead of a somewhat more altitude-eating teardrop. If you have long runways this isn't quite as important, but there's no reason you can't drift to a downwind side on upwind for this purpose. It does reduce the minimum altitude at which you can turn back to the runway. - if you're still too low on upwind you can turn as needed to keep landing areas under you or a runway under you or available like on a downwind. If you're at a towered airport, advise the tower that you'll need to do this. In my FS II I'd turn crosswind and fly a close-in downwind to the takoff runway if necessary to gain enough altitude before leaving the area. The tower never had a problem with it and I always had a runway or some landing spot available. As we all know, if you don't have the performance to safely land or takeoff from a place, don't go in there ;)........ At least, don't go in there all the time ;).... Again, just my 1 cent, LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193733#193733 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:17 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2008 In a message dated 7/18/2008 9:22:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time, NeilsenRM@comcast.net writes: I will be at AirVenture "Oshkosh" camping with my plane all week. Is anyone else going to be there? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC Rick, I will be driving up to air venture hoping to arrive Monday or Tuesday. Will be camping at Schollar. Ed Diebel FF#62 (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:54 PM PST US From: "Michael Adams" Subject: Kolb-List: Electrical question - shielding Here's the problem. I am using a fuel gauge that is connected to capacitance type probes. When the engine is running, (503 DCDI) the fuel gauge jumps around like crazy. After much testing and trouble shooting, I believe the problem is related to the fuel sender wires running near the ignition kill wires and/or the tach wire. When I move part of the fuel sender wires a few inches away, the problem improves. I'm really not wanting to move the sender wires to the other side of the airplane to give more space between the different wire types. Before I do this (since it would be a lot of work for a fix that's not 100% guaranteed), is there a quick and easy way to shield the fuel sender wires? Would this even work? Any help from the electricians in the group would be appreciated. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.