Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? (grantr)
2. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? (John Hauck)
3. 08:32 AM - Re: safety experiment (Jack B. Hart)
4. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? (jvanlaak@aol.com)
5. 09:42 AM - safety experiment (william sullivan)
6. 10:07 AM - safety experiment (Jack B. Hart)
7. 10:09 AM - Re: safety experiment (Dana Hague)
8. 01:08 PM - Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? (JetPilot)
9. 02:48 PM - Re: safety experiment (Air Speed Indicator) (Steven Green)
10. 03:34 PM - Re: static thrust question (gliderx5@comcast.net)
11. 03:46 PM - Re: static thrust question (gliderx5@comcast.net)
12. 04:01 PM - Re: safety experiment (herb)
13. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: VG Performance Video: Stalls, Slow Flight, Turns, Landing (possums)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? |
> Possum:
>
> My boo boo. I related the photos you posted of Fergy ribs to the ribs and
> wing panels on your aircraft.
>
> To spin my Kolbs, I pull the nose up high with power at idle, full left or
> right rudder, and full aft stick just as it stalls. Hold it until you are
> ready to recover. Usually, relaxing the controls will recover the aircraft.
>
> My original FS would only spin one half turn at idle. It would recover with
> the controls crossed up and locked. During some experimentation doing
> engine off aerobatics, I did a spin. The little FS spun up like a top.
>
> The MKIII loses a lot more altitude than the FS. That was quite a surprise
> first time I spun it.
>
> One will have to work at getting a Kolb into an unintentional spin.
> However, I am sure there are those out there that can probably get
> themselves into one.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
John,
Would you say the Kolb MK III is a safe airplane to spin? From reading the above
it sounds like it is.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198106#198106
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? |
> Would you say the Kolb MK III is a safe airplane to spin? From reading the
> above it sounds like it is.
Grant R:
Mine is safe to spin.
Don't think I am at liberty to make a blanket assumption that all MKIII's
are safe to spin.
I do think it is important to have spin recovery training. At least one
will know how to recover from the spin should he get into one inadvertently.
john h
mkIII
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: safety experiment |
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
>Roger- You hit the nail on the head. I was given to understand that the ASI would
not work at lower air speeds (turns out mine didn't work at all), so the
only frame of reference would be a comparable ground speed. This would apply
only in a low or no wind condition.
>
Bill,
I believe you have been very lucky in your quest to fly. But no one should try
to fly with out a working ASI and one should never use ground speed as a reference
any where in the landing process. Too many have dropped it out of the sky
on downwind and/or turning downwind to base and good share of these have died.
Believe and use your ASI.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
</x-html>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? |
In my experience there are two?things that can produce dramatically different spinning
characteristics between airplanes of the same design:
rigging - control limits, wing incidence, etc.
CG - the more aft the more potential for going flat.
I have spun dozens of different makes (including my Firestar I) and only had a
few scary times.? But some of the scares came in planes "known" to have good spinning
characteristics.? Perhaps the worst was a Decathalon that took full forward
stick for 3 seconds to break the stall.? I was beginning to wish I was somewhere
else about the time it broke.
Be careful spinning.? I agree that training is imperative, and then approach every
homebuilt airplane as if it was a one-of-a-kind, because it is.
Jim Van Laak
PS? My firestar spun beautifully (about 2 turns) but on the recovery I got a little
zero G and killed the engine.? I had bad tendonitis and could not pull the
starter from inside that cockpit that day.? Made a nice deadstick landing at
the private airport I was intentionally over then hopped out and restarted it.?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 8:54 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority?
?
> Would you say the Kolb MK III is a safe airplane to spin? From reading the >
above it sounds like it is.?
?
?
Grant R:?
?
Mine is safe to spin.?
?
Don't think I am at liberty to make a blanket assumption that all MKIII's are safe
to spin.?
?
I do think it is important to have spin recovery training. At least one will know
how to recover from the spin should he get into one inadvertently.?
?
john h?
mkIII ?
?
?
Message 5
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| Subject: | safety experiment |
Jack- Do you, or anyone, have a method to ground check an ASI to see if it functions?
When I purchased the Kolb I was told that it was about 20mph off. I
found the pitot hose had fallen off, and thought that was it.
Bill Sullivan
Message 6
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| Subject: | safety experiment |
>Jack- Do you, or anyone, have a method to ground check an ASI to see if it
functions? When I purchased the Kolb I was told that it was about 20mph
off. I found the pitot hose had fallen off, and thought that was it.
>
Bill,
If you can wait a day or two, I will put up a page on how to inexpensively
check out the ASI and altimeter.
Jack B. Hart FF004
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: safety experiment |
At 12:41 PM 8/12/2008, william sullivan wrote:
> Jack- Do you, or anyone, have a method to ground check an ASI to see if
> it functions? When I purchased the Kolb I was told that it was about
> 20mph off. I found the pitot hose had fallen off, and thought that was it.
Gently blow *at* the pitot tube from a few inches away and see if the
needle moves. Do NOT actually put your lips on the tube and blow into it
as you will destroy the instrument. It won't check it for accuracy, but it
will probably be consistent, i.e. if you try a few stalls at a safe
altitude and it says you're stalling at 50 mph, it'll still stall at an
indicated 50 on landing.
If it's 20 mph off it's probably a bad static air supply. Mine was, when I
bought it... the static air wasn't connected to anything, it just vented
inside the instrument pod, so I could make the reading change by 20mph or
so just by moving my foot. I've since made a concentric pitot/static tube
and it's much more accurate now.
-Dana
--
I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III spins and rudder authority? |
jvanlaak(at)aol.com wrote:
> I was beginning to wish I was somewhere else about the time it broke.
>
>
Hahaha,
I like the way you put that !!!
jvanlaak(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Be careful spinning. I agree that training is imperative, and then approach
every homebuilt airplane as if it was a one-of-a-kind, because it is.
>
> Jim Van Laak
>
>
I agree totally here, I don't spin my MK III Xtra. I have done plenty of spins
in other planes that were meant for that. I have no desire to spin my Kolb.
The Kolb is meant as a very stable, gently flying airplane, I fly it as it was
designed to be flown... No aerobatics or spins.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198207#198207
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: safety experiment (Air Speed Indicator) |
Bill,
I made pitot tube and static tube. Before mounting it on the plane I
fastened it to a broom handle about 3 feet long and ran hoses to the
asi. I had someone drive the car while I held the pitot / static system
out the window and compared to the speed of the car. This is by no
means considered an accuracy test but it does test function over
different speed ranges.
Steven
----- Original Message -----
From: william sullivan
To: kolb list
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: safety experiment
Jack- Do you, or anyone, have a method to ground check an ASI to see
if it functions? When I purchased the Kolb I was told that it was about
20mph off. I found the pitot hose had fallen off, and thought that was
it.
Bill Sullivan
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: static thrust question |
Sorry, it's another test
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: gliderx5@comcast.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: static thrust question |
Sorry for all the empty emails on the list. My signature was causing problems.
I just got back from measuring thrust on my MKII 503 SCSI, 66 inch IVO 3 blade.
Using a 300 lb hanging type scale hooked to a truck the Rotax bulled just past
the end of the marking (I'm guessing 305 lbs). I did a quick check on the scale
by hanging from it and it got my 200 lbs correct. The Kolb was on level ground
with the wheels on plywood during the test. My MKII has a top level speed of
just over 65 mph and I cruise at 50 to 55 mph. Climb solo is 600-700 fpm.
We also measured two other aircraft. One with a 45 hp Zenoah, 2 blade 62 inch
(not IVO) and it measured 195 lbs. The other was a Hirth 40 hp with a 68 inch
2
blade IVO and it peaked at 190 lbs. Later we installed my 3 blade IVO on the
Zenoah
and measured 225 lbs thrust
Last year, using a 200 lb hanging scale and a pulley to allow measuring 400 lbs,
we measured my Corvair powered Pietenpol at 280 lbs static with a wood 66 inch,
35 inch pitch, homemade prop. It's very interesting that the 46 hp Rotax
produces more thrust!
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: gliderx5@comcast.net
>
> Sorry, it's another test
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: gliderx5@comcast.net
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: safety experiment |
The net should have instructions for using a water manometer to
calibrate your asi..I think, that over the years, Sport Aviation and
Kit planes have printed instructions...Herb
At 11:41 AM 8/12/2008, you wrote:
> Jack- Do you, or anyone, have a method to ground check an ASI to
> see if it functions? When I purchased the Kolb I was told that it
> was about 20mph off. I found the pitot hose had fallen off, and
> thought that was it.
>
> Bill Sullivan
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: VG Performance Video: Stalls, Slow Flight, |
Turns, Landing
At 01:26 PM 8/11/2008, you wrote:
>At 11:12 PM 8/10/2008, possums wrote:
>
>>I've never done a loop on purpose.
>
>You mean you've done one unintentionally?
>
>-Dana
>
>do not archive
Yeah - or maybe it just flopped over backwards, I don't know.
So there I was (as Jeff Foxworthy would say) flying my old
CGS Hawk on a nice clear day, all by myself when I started
erasing the stick back & nosing her up - stall - & let the nose drop
back down. Pick up speed again and pull back a little harder.
Let it nose over from the top and pick up a little more speed & pull back
a little more. I was having a blast. Then I guess I let it pick up
too much speed and pulled back too hard because the next thing
I knew I was weightless, all the dirt & stuff in the floor (including an
old coke can) was floating by my head. Then it was over, I was straight
& level (nothing I did to correct the problem) it just recovered on it's own.
Of course now I was at about 700 ft AGL with the engine out looking
for a place to land.
Bent the landing gear, but my hands didn't start shaking until after I
landed in this guy's back yard (big yard). It took a while to figure
what happened.
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