Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:23 AM - Re: Re: passengers/ law suits? (pj.ladd)
2. 02:41 AM - Re: Re: resonance 912 (pj.ladd)
3. 04:03 AM - Re: passengers/ law suits? ()
4. 04:19 AM - Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE (Thomas R. Riddle)
5. 04:21 AM - Re: Re: fuel line? (Dana Hague)
6. 04:41 AM - Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE (Dana Hague)
7. 04:53 AM - Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump (Denny Rowe)
8. 05:14 AM - Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump (Steven Green)
9. 05:26 AM - Re: fuel line? (grantr)
10. 06:05 AM - sign off forms (Ted Cowan)
11. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: passengers/ law suits? (Dana Labhart)
12. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: LSA (TK)
13. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: resonance 912 (TK)
14. 08:38 AM - Re: passengers/ law suits? (grantr)
15. 09:16 AM - Re: I am officially a sport pilot! (cristalclear13)
16. 09:46 AM - Re: Fusing the Ignition System (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
17. 09:51 AM - Re: passengers/ law suits? (Jim ODay)
18. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: resonance 912 (Jerry Jones)
19. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Fusing the Ignition System (Steven Green)
20. 11:08 AM - Re: Fusing the Ignition System (Mnflyer)
21. 11:23 AM - Re: resonance 912 (JetPilot)
22. 12:48 PM - Wood Props (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
23. 01:58 PM - Re: fuel line? (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
24. 01:59 PM - Re: fuel line? (boyd)
25. 02:32 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: resonance 912 (Eugene Zimmerman)
26. 02:37 PM - Re: Wood props, was: Re: wood resonance 912 (Dana Hague)
27. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: fuel line? (Dana Hague)
28. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: fuel line? (russ kinne)
29. 03:06 PM - Re: Wood props, was: Re: wood resonance 912 (russ kinne)
30. 03:09 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: resonance 912 (william sullivan)
31. 03:21 PM - Puzzled (TK)
32. 04:41 PM - LSA (Charles Davis)
33. 05:18 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: resonance 912 (russ kinne)
34. 06:02 PM - 3D (william sullivan)
35. 06:03 PM - Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE (beauford)
36. 06:18 PM - Re: LSA (Robert Laird)
37. 06:20 PM - Re: Puzzled (JetPilot)
38. 06:29 PM - Re: LSA (George Alexander)
39. 06:39 PM - Re: Wood Props (JetPilot)
40. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: fuel line? (Jim Baker)
41. 07:33 PM - Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE (DAquaNut@aol.com)
42. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE (Dana Hague)
43. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: Puzzled (Denny Rowe)
44. 08:09 PM - Re: Puzzled (Richard Pike)
45. 08:48 PM - Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE (Dana Hague)
46. 08:59 PM - Re: resonance 912 (John Bickham)
47. 09:41 PM - Re: Puzzled (icrashrc)
48. 09:53 PM - Re: LSA (TheWanderingWench)
49. 10:58 PM - Re: Puzzled (JetPilot)
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Subject: | Re: passengers/ law suits? |
I guess I'm a "fatalist", I take every precaution that I possibly can,>>
Hi Larry,
when I fly a passenger I always get them to sign what I have always called
`a blood chit`. In case `chit` is not in general use in the US it is a piece
of paper that is used, usually in the army, to cover your back.If you have
bad feet and are `excused boots` you get a chit.If you have been excused a
parade, you get a chit. You get the idea.
I write my own `blood chit` saying in plain language that flying is
dangerous, the plane is not built to international standards,( we all carry
a sticker to that effect stuck up in the cockpit) and that whatever happens
is not my fault. Just keep it plain and simple.You are not trying to be a
lawyer.
I think this practice is fairly standard. I don`t think it has ever been
tested in court and in a bad case probably wouldn`t hold up but at least it
puts you on the side of the angels and hopefully it would impress a jury
that you had done your best to point out the danger.
Sometimes of course the passenger won`t sign, in which case they don`t fly.
Cheers
Pat
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Subject: | Re: resonance 912 |
use a > substandard wooden prop. >>
Thats a bit of a sweeping statement. Why should you assume that a wooden
prop is substandard
Time was when all aircraft had wooden props from Sopwith Pups to Vickers
Vimy etc and they managed to go to war and fly the Atlantic.
You may have a situation where a badly matched prop and engine is giving
trouble but that is no reason for such an intemperate statement.. Kolbs are
flying here with 582`s, Jabiru`s with wooden props and there are many light
aircraft flying happily with wooden props.
Pat
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Subject: | Re: passengers/ law suits? |
Years ago, when looking for places to fly my powered parachute, I approached
an owner of a small grass strip and said I have a waiver that would relieve
you of any responsibility if I get hurt. He said "that's nice, but that
doesn't stop your spouse or siblings from coming after me". I said your
right and I think this whole thing a bought suing is stupid. If I get hurt
flying my aircraft on your property it's my fault not yours. He shook my
hand and said "your welcome to fly here when ever you want".
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin Berne NY
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Subject: | Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE |
I'm back home and catching up on email and Kolb stuff and saw my name mentioned.
St. Gobain, the mfr of Tygon tells me that their Tygon F4040 formula
yellow translucent line is designed specifically for gasoline and
other petroleum products and is compatible with E10. It is rated down
to -35 degrees F and up to 165 degrees F. Not recommended for enclosed
cowl engines due to the hot environment often encountered therein, but
good for locations that don't get that hot.
On the Rotax List, there is a discussion of this topic and one lister
said that he was not happy with this line but I'm not sure he is using
F4040A. Perhaps he is using another Tygon, of which there are many
formulations. He is testing another formulation now. Check the Rotax
List for more on this.
Thom in Buffalo
Message 5
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At 10:15 PM 9/8/2008, Jeremy Casey wrote:
>
>For what it is worth...RANS recently released a Service Bulletin saying to
>get rid of all the blue and clear poly-stuff fuel line and go to the
>automotive stuff. The poly-stuff has been found to not like ethanol
>(there it is again ;-( ) Supposedly there is some more expensive
>poly-stuff lines that are ethanol OK but why bother? The SAE 30R7 stuff
>from GATES is available at every NAPA, doesn't mind ethanol and is
>(comparatively) cheap...
The blue polyurethane tubing sold by Bing is specifically labeled "alcohol
resistant fuel line"
-Dana
--
Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE |
At 07:18 AM 9/9/2008, Thomas R. Riddle wrote:
>...Perhaps he is using another Tygon, of which there are many
>formulations. He is testing another formulation now...
There are many formulations of tubing sold under the Tygon brand name, but
the F4040 "fuel and lubricant tubing" is the only one they recommend for
fuel containing ethanol. It is, I believe, the only Tygon brand tubing
with the yellow color. There is also at least one other manufacturer
making a yellow "fuel tubing", but my experience is that the other brand
(at least the other brand sold by McMaster) is inferior.
I still prefer the blue Bing line.
-Dana
--
Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump |
----- Original Message -----
From: HShack@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
I will fill my float bowls &, if needed, turn it on if the pulse pump
fails. I will NOT turn it on when taking off or landing for this
reason- if there is a crash [most likely during takeoff or landing] the
fuel pump MAY continue to pump fuel, causing a small fire to be a big
one.
This exact thing happened at our field about 3 years ago. The pilot
was burned over 90% w/ 3rd degree burns; They pulled the plug after 10
days in hospital.
Also, there is a question on the Sport Pilot test that indicates the
backup fuel pump not be used for TO & landing [I assume for the same
reason].
I welcome other thoughts on this matter.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Howard,
I am surprised the Sport Pilot exam would discourage back up fuel pump
use in the pattern.
When I got my private licence in the early 90s it was SOP to use the
back up pump for take offs and landings as these are the times with no
room for error if the engine driven pump fails.
It was also SOP to shut down all electric power upon commital to a
power loss landing. As with Ballistic chute use, power loss procedure
should be practiced and engrained in the brain while sitting on the
ground.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, N616DR, Western PA
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump |
I will fill my float bowls &, if needed, turn it on if the pulse pump
fails. I will NOT turn it on when taking off or landing for this
reason- if there is a crash [most likely during takeoff or landing] the
fuel pump MAY continue to pump fuel, causing a small fire to be a big
one.
Howard,
I agree with you on the operation of the electric pump. I installed a
fuel pressure sensor, connected it to the EIS, and programmed it to
alarm below 3 psi.
I considered installing an inertia switch in series with the electric
pump but have decided not to since I do not run it continously. If an
electric pump was my primary pump that had to run continously, I would
install the inertia switch for the reason you stated.
Steven Green
M3 912S
Message 9
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> ...If you do not do something stupid in your fuel system design, like try
> to PULL fuel up with a fuel pump, bubbles will never be an issue. In a
> properly designed fuel system, a leak would be indicated be a drip or a
> wet spot, not by bubbles...
>
The way my MK III with the 503 is setup, the pulse pump pulls the fuel up to the
engine.
So is this the wrong way to have it setup? I don't have an electric pump. The only
pump on mine is the pulse pump.
Should I get an electric pump?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3362#203362
Message 10
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I will add my two cents here. We have a nice 60 acre air field here,
registered in the State of Alabama Aeronautical Safety Board, and we use a
sign-off sheet. If they are keeping an aircraft here, they sign off stating
responsibilities of us and them. That is good and proper. They also sign
off for the privilage of USING the aircraft on and off our field stating
THEY are responsible for EVERYTHING. If we take someone for a ride, there
is another form releasing us from the lawsuit side of responsibility. These
forms are fashioned after some that circulated back in the 80s and early 90s
during the USUA haydays. An attorney in California I believe, stated that
you CANNOT SIGN AWAY YOUR PERSONAL LIBILITY, actual damage to your body.
You CAN however limit it very much to damages with the sign off sheet. I
understand that if you FILM a person reading and/or signing the sheet, it
carries a lot of weight in them assuming the dangers, etc, and to make it
even more viable, have them (which we do in the case of hangering planes and
flying from our land) get it notorized. That way they cannot say they didnt
read it or understand it. The attorney also stated that passengers on an
ultralight were viewed by jurors the same as passengers on motorcycles,
'they are nuts and accept the conditions and dangers.' I hope this helps.
If anyone wishes to have a copy of what we use here, I will send it to them.
Hope this helps with that worry. You can limit your liability to actual
damages only and not to penalties. That really helps if you have homeowners
policies. Oh, yeah, our insurance carrier knows of our activities and has a
copy of what we use and is happy with it. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: passengers/ law suits? |
Also If something did happen couldn't you just move all of your assets over
to your spouses name or children? Then you wouldn't have anything for them
to get!
That's a great theory, but if you have a death, that can't be done.
Message 12
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George Alexander wrote:
>
> [quote="tkrolfe(at)toast.net"]George Alexander wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> tc1917(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If I understand you correctly, if I were to get certified as a Sport
>> Pilot in an Aeronca then I would only be allowed to fly that type of
>> plane? What does that do to those that have transitioned from a GA
>> licenses to Sport Pilot. Are they then restricted to only flying their
>> current aircraft type? I know of two individuals that have transitioned
>> to Sport Pilot and was wondering how it would affect them.
>>
>> I'm having second thoughts about Sport Pilot certification if that is
>> the restriction.
>>
>> Terry - FireFly #95
>>
>
>
> Terry:
> My understanding is what Rick Neilsen said....
> Said another way.... a person who has a PPL/GA Ticket can fly LSA equivalent
of that he was signed off for as a private. They do NOT become a Sport Pilot.
They continue to hold the GA Ticket and if their medical lapsed they can fly
aircraft in LSA as long as they have a valid driver license.
> If they hold a private with a tail wheel endorsement, they can fly a Savage (>87
KTS Vh TW); a CT (> 87 KTS Vh tri-gear); a Firefly (
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> FS II R503 N709FS
> http://gtalexander.home.att.ne
George, Rick,
Thanks for the clarification!
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: resonance 912 |
pj.ladd wrote:
>
> use a > substandard wooden prop. >>
>
> Thats a bit of a sweeping statement. Why should you assume that a
> wooden prop is substandard
>
> Time was when all aircraft had wooden props from Sopwith Pups to
> Vickers Vimy etc and they managed to go to war and fly the Atlantic.
> You may have a situation where a badly matched prop and engine is
> giving trouble but that is no reason for such an *intemperate
> statement..* Kolbs are flying here with 582`s, Jabiru`s with wooden
> props and there are many light aircraft flying happily with wooden
> props.
>
> Pat
>
Pat,
Because that is the only kind of statement he seems capable of!
During college I worked for Sensenich Aircraft Propeller Co. building
wood props. One of their tests was to put a propeller on a test stand
and the throw objects through the spinning propeller to demonstrate,
that even though chunks of wood would be torn off, the prop was still
able to provide thrust and give the pilot a chance to land safely. You
can imagine the excitement of that demo!!!! Do that with an aluminum
prop and it will immediately fold back making flight impossible. There
weren't any composite props back then, but it would have been an
interesting test also!! Believe it or not, they would actually repair
wood props that had the ends sheared off.
I have also seen what a piece of hard candy will do to a carbon fiber
prop when striking it. Causes major damage that is not easy to repair,
but repairable. Metal hardware would do more damage.
Again, we have someone talking that doesn't know what he is talking about!!
Wood props are not fragile, do not have problems with moisture if kept
in good repair and the hub does not keep on compressing after the first
couple of times of torquing it up. I have 925 hr.s in front of my
Tennessee wood prop and get great performance from it. Meets the
published numbers for climb and cruise and I burn 2 gallons per hour
consistently. It survived a major strike from my left wheel when my leg
strut broke over a year ago upon landing. The brake cable held on and
swung the wheel assembly back up into the prop. Sent the prop back to
Tennessee Propeller and they spliced and repaired the tips and did a
great job. Been flying it ever since with total confidence!!
But, then what do I know compared to someone who knows it all,
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: passengers/ law suits? |
I worked one up. maybe a bit overkill.:D
ADULT
Transportation Authorization, Liability Release and Indemnity Form
ADULT PASSENGER: __________________________________
CHECKED PASSENGER ID: _____________DATE:______________
(Please Print) (Pilot or EA Initials)
PILOT: __________________________________________________________
AIRCRAFT (Type and N-Number):____________________________________________________
N___________________
DRIVER: ____________________________________VEHICLE (Type & License Number):_________________________________
I understand that flying is a very dangerous activity and this aircraft Kolb Mark
III N-1153 is an amateur build experimental airplane that does not meet
federal aviation safety standards.
I understand that the Owner of the Aircraft Mr. Grant Richardson is volunteering
his services, time, skills, flight, aircraft, vehicles, and other related
costs and expenses for the proposed flight. I, the undersigned Passenger and
or any person or organization associated with me, in consideration of the furnishing
of services, time, skills, flight, transportation, aircraft, vehicles,
and other related costs and expenses being arranged and provided, hereby agree
to forever release, discharge, and hold harmless Mr. Grant Richardson, aircraft
and vehicles owner(s) and/or lessor(s) (as applicable), each of their respective
divisions, parents, family members, subsidiaries, member organizations,
affiliates, chapters, officers, directors, agents, employees, volunteers, insurers,
heirs, assigns, and successors in interest, and any and all entities who
referred me to Mr. Grant Richardson, from any and all claims, demands, liability
(under the law of any county, municipality, state or country), fees, expenses,
and costs of any kind whatsoever that I and or any person or organization
associated with me may have or claim to have on account of or in any way related
to or arising from, directly or indirectly, the proposed transportation
and or flight, the cancellation or delay of the transportation, and/or the failure
to provide return transportation.
My release specifically includes, but is not limited to, any and all alleged negligent
acts, errors, and omissions of any of the released persons or entities.
In addition to economic damages, costs, and expenses, this release also specifically
covers any and all injuries, deaths, and conditions of health, whether
or not immediately apparent following the flight, or which may at any time thereafter
develop.
As evidenced by my signing this release, I and or any person or organization associated
with me regard the services, time, skills, flight, aircraft, transportation,
vehicles, and other related costs and expenses being furnished to me as
significant, material, and valuable consideration in exchange for this release,
and value this consideration as a significant, material factor in my well-being
and physical prosperity. I have read and fully understand this document.
I talked with Mr. Grant Richardson about my questions concerning the proposed
transportation and or flight. In connection with any portion of this document
that I did not understand, I understand that I had and continue to have the
right to obtain legal advice from an attorney of my choice.
This agreement shall be binding upon all the heirs at law, assigns, and successors
in interest of all parties hereto. This agreement may be enforced by any party
hereto and/or by any person or organization released in this agreement. I
agree that this agreement shall be governed and interpreted by the laws of the
state of Georgia.
PASSENGER SIGNATURE:
______________________________________________________________
DATE:_______________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3391#203391
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: I am officially a sport pilot! |
Cool! 8) Congratulations Grant!
--------
Cristal Waters
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3398#203398
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Subject: | Re: Fusing the Ignition System |
"JetPilot" << ... the HKS wiring diagram, they show a separate 3 amp
fuse for each ignition system, which is something I would do. A single
fuse or socket going
bad in this setup would not cause an engine failure. Mike >>
Mike - I hafta agree with you that a single fuse to the entire ignition
system (like how Rotax does it) poses a higher risk than the way HKS
wires it, with a fuse going to EACH of the two ignition modules. Adds
redundancy. (desireable)
I also noticed from the HKS wiring diagram you posted: HKS recommends
fusing the ignition modules at 3 amps; but Rotax calls for a 30 amp fuse
for the ignition system. I wonder why there's such a big difference in
amp values?
Dennis Kirby
Do not archive
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: passengers/ law suits? |
Thoughtful advice ---- "If I do take someone up, I make sure that I fly very carefully
and safely, keeping in mind that stall speeds are up and the plane will
be a lot heavier than I am used to. My best landings are reserved for passengers."
........ Well said Larry.
--------
Jim O'Day
Fargo, ND
Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3405#203405
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Subject: | Re: resonance 912 |
Terry,
...to clarify on my earlier comment on wood props on pushers, lemme
say although I'm not high on wood props on pushers, prolly not
aluminum either, after what you said, I do have a wood Sensenich on
my Jab-powered Skyranger, and in fact love their props. Wish I'd
known about the tests you describe. I'd have felt more comfortable
flying with one of their props after a loose bolt went through one on
takeoff (A&P screwup--me) on my Titan. Didn't know it at the time,
except the Titan went into a brief stall at its usual extreme takeoff
angle (had a 3300 on it giving me incredible climb, even when well
above Vy). Discovered the problem when I landed--prop was split
lengthwise and a small chunk was missing. Wrapped the amazing
invention, duct tape, on it and flew it home--praying all the way, of
course. Couldn't save the prop. Fixed a lot of others though with
baking soda and super glue after things went through them. Simple
and easy fix.
Jerry (aka Ricochet--story there too)
Hangar 2
>>
>>
> Pat,
>
> Because that is the only kind of statement he seems capable of!
>
> During college I worked for Sensenich Aircraft Propeller Co.
> building wood props. One of their tests was to put a propeller on
> a test stand and the throw objects through the spinning propeller
> to demonstrate, that even though chunks of wood would be torn off,
> the prop was still able to provide thrust and give the pilot a
> chance to land safely. You can imagine the excitement of that
> demo!!!! Do that with an aluminum prop and it will immediately
> fold back making flight impossible. There weren't any composite
> props back then, but it would have been an interesting test also!!
> Believe it or not, they would actually repair wood props that had
> the ends sheared off.
>
> I have also seen what a piece of hard candy will do to a carbon
> fiber prop when striking it. Causes major damage that is not easy
> to repair, but repairable. Metal hardware would do more damage.
>
> Again, we have someone talking that doesn't know what he is talking
> about!!
>
> Wood props are not fragile, do not have problems with moisture if
> kept in good repair and the hub does not keep on compressing after
> the first couple of times of torquing it up. I have 925 hr.s in
> front of my Tennessee wood prop and get great performance from it.
> Meets the published numbers for climb and cruise and I burn 2
> gallons per hour consistently. It survived a major strike from my
> left wheel when my leg strut broke over a year ago upon landing.
> The brake cable held on and swung the wheel assembly back up into
> the prop. Sent the prop back to Tennessee Propeller and they
> spliced and repaired the tips and did a great job. Been flying it
> ever since with total confidence!!
>
> But, then what do I know compared to someone who knows it all,
>
> Terry - FireFly #95
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Fusing the Ignition System |
Dennis and others,
Don't confuse ignition system with electrical system. The Rotax 912
"ignition system" is for the most part independent of the "electrical
system". Rotax does NOT recommend a fuse in the ignition system. They do
recommend one in the electrical system. The fuse in the electrical system
can blow and the engine will continue to run well.
The HKS may use ignition modules that must be powered by the electrical
system, many engines do.
Steven Green
st message posted by: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL"
<Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> Mike - I hafta agree with you that a single fuse to the entire ignition
> system (like how Rotax does it)
> Dennis Kirby
> Do not archive
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Subject: | Re: Fusing the Ignition System |
Hi Steven, is right in that the HKS ignition is a CDI system that requires either
battery of alternator power to operate same as an automobile system, if properly
wired it is redundant in that it the engine will run on just the battery
or the alternator.
Whereas the 912 uses a magneto type (self generating) ignition and the 30 amp fuse
/ CB would be for the main alternator electrical system.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3420#203420
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Subject: | Re: resonance 912 |
tkrolfe(at)toast.net wrote:
>
>
> Again, we have someone talking that doesn't know what he is talking about!!
>
> Wood props are not fragile,
>
>
Terry,
Despite all Terry wrote about working and having knowledge of all these propeller
tests, Terry is JUST PLAIN WRONG.
Wood props are very fragile, and are very likely to be broken by something coming
off a pusher plane like a Kolb. This is a very well known fact.
If anyone out there is starting to wonder after reading Terrys very misleading
post, read this:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/418892/four_disadvantages_of_aircraft_propellers.html
http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~dddj/Powershift.htm
Terry claims that "Again, we have someone talking that doesn't know what he is
talking about!! "
Its pretty sad that a guy that likes to make this claim is the one that is posting
bad information.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3422#203422
Message 22
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|
Lets ALL keep it nice.
I would personally not have a wood prop on my MKIIIC. My experience has
proven to me that composite props are much better on our airplanes. On my
first plane I lost a wood prop in flight (it sheared the prop bolts and
literally flew off) due to seasonal changes in temperature and humidity. I
didn't know I needed to retorque the prop bolts at least twice a year
because of the shrinking and swelling of a wood prop. This may not be
necessary in all climates but it is in Michigan. I was also told that I
should always leave wood props in a horizontal position so that oils in the
wood would not migrate to one tip causing prop imbalance. I don't know for
sure about this information but that is what I was told.
My direct drive VW had a wood prop because wood props were the only props
that didn't cause crank shaft problems. During taxi testing I got a bit too
close to a tree and clipped a twig. I wasn't much over idle and the branch
where I clipped it was only about a 1/8 inch dia. but the prop split from
the tip almost to the hub.
Since switching to a redrive VW and a PowerFin Prop I lost a 5/16 bolt X 3
inches long from a starter mount. The bolt went thru the prop at cruise
RPMs. It got my attention and I subsequently landed to check things out. The
prop was damaged but serviceable enough to fly almost 400 miles home.
You do what you feel is best but I prefer a composite prop.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:23 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: resonance 912
>
>
> tkrolfe(at)toast.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> Again, we have someone talking that doesn't know what he is talking
>> about!!
>>
>> Wood props are not fragile,
>>
>>
>
>
> Terry,
Message 23
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<< The tygon and clear vinyl type fuel lines are substandard and cheap
... >>
Grant -
I'll second JetPilot's statement above, and will back it up with this
short story:
(OK - maybe a medium length story) (This all happened to me in the past
month.)
I installed new fuel tanks in my Mark-3 (2 x 6 gal) recently.
They are the stock, top-feed type tanks, with the stainless 1/4" pipe
dropping down into the tank. At the bottom end of the SS pipe is a
5-inch piece of flexible fuel hose, the other end of which is connected
to the finger screen, which rests on the bottom of the tank.
When installing these new tanks in June, I used Tygon for those two
5-inch pieces of flexible fuel line in each tank, for the finger
screens. It was new, unused tubing that I happened to have in my
aircraft supply bin, so I used it. It was in brand new condition -
soft, flexible, very rubbery. Since there is zero stress on that little
piece of fuel line sitting at the bottom of the tank, I figured it would
be OK. I was wrong.
(NOTE - the entire rest of my fuel system is plumbed using the black
Neoprene automotive fuel line, as you've seen recommended already in
this thread.)
After only 3 months of sitting in gasoline, that piece of flex line lost
its flexibility, and actually expanded a little bit. I discovered this
last week when I went to start the engine, and I turned on the electric
fuel pump (before starting the engine). I can always confirm that the
EFP is pushing fuel uphill to the engine when I see the fuel bubbling
though the clear glass fuel filter, located up at engine level.
I saw no fuel flowing through the fuel filter, even though the EFP was
on.
(Here's a plug for being able to see your fuel somewhere in the fuel
circuit, even if only at one point!)
The tanks each still had a gallon of gas, so the pickup screens were
well submerged in fuel. But the junction of the flex line and SS pipe
was ABOVE the fuel level, and air was being sucked into the fuel line
from the space between the inside of the flex line and the SS pickup
pipe. I couldn't believe that Tygon would lose its flexibility so
quickly from sitting in gas.
Right away, I replaced the Tygon with the black Neoprene auto fuel line
(I use Gates, heavy wall), and all is well again.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3 Classic, N93DK
Message 24
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|
II want to replace my fuel lines. What is the best line to replace it with.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I went to the NAPA store and bought some black rubber fuel line,,, been on
for about 5 years now.. the plastic line that came with the kit gave me
problems after 6 months,,, the clamps that came with the kit left a very
small area on the fuel line fittings that would not seal well.... while
checking on some staining on 1 carb, I was doing some pressure test and
found a very small leak coming from the connection... put in the black hose
and never found any problem since.
Boyd Young
MkIIIC
500 + hours
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: Kolb List re: resonance 912 |
Bill,
Interesting 3D message illusion.
Took me awhile to "get" it though.
Gene
On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:51 AM, william sullivan wrote:
> Ted- I have no experience, but I think somebody went through this
> a few months ago. Do you have a spare prop you could switch out?
>
> Bill Sullivan
>
>
> _-
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
> _-
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
> _-
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
> _-
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Wood props, was: Re: wood resonance 912 |
At 02:23 PM 9/9/2008, JetPilot wrote:
>Wood props are very fragile, and are very likely to be broken by something
>coming off a pusher plane like a Kolb. This is a very well known fact.
>
>If anyone out there is starting to wonder after reading Terrys very
>misleading post, read this:
>
>http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/418892/four_disadvantages_of_aircraft_propellers.html
>
>http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~dddj/Powershift.htm
Mike,
I don't agree.
You can't make a blanket statement that "wood props are more fragile" or
"composite props are better". Wood is more susceptible to some kinds of
damage and less susceptible to other kinds.
I have seen (especially in the PPG world) wood props in regular use with
all kinds of damage, and they hold together. I know one pilot whose
headphones went through the [wood] prop right on takeoff. He said it was
vibrating so bad that he thought the engine mounts would snap, but he made
it up and aro
und for a safe landing. OTOH I have seen composite props come completely
apart due to what seemed a very minor nick, or even no visible damage at
all. Wood props are softer, so they're more likely to suffer abrasion
damage (a major factor for seaplanes or airboats with water spray), but
that very softness means that a nick is less likely to propagate into a
major crack.
Also not all composite props are the same. The Warp Drive props, as I
understand, are solid, rather heavy, and durable. Powerfins, with their
relatively thin skin and foam core, are much more easily damaged. I don't
know much about the Ivos.
Wood has some other advantages as well as disadvantages. A wood prop is
easier to repair if it is damaged. It can get out of balance, especially
if damaged or neglected (but not because it's stored vertical, that's an
old wives tale). A composite or metal prop can be more efficient due to
the thinner blades, but a wood prop is easier to modify or "tweak" if it's
not quite right. And wood is less expensive (I hesitate to say "cheaper").
The websites you cited are both either misleading to this discussion or
plain wrong. I agree that a composite prop is probably better for an
airboat, but only due to the specifics of their application. OTOH, the
associatedcontent site has mostly misleading statements:
"If there is a small split on the propeller, it can easily travel up
through the wood grain and get larger and cause the propeller to fail. You
don't want this to happen in the air, so you need to make sure there are no
cracks or splits before you takeoff."
A small nick in an aluminum prop can also cause a crack to propagate, much
more likely than a similar nick in a wood prop.
"Propellers that are made from wood can warp over time. Changes in
temperature and humidity can easily cause wood propellers to warp."
I have never seen a wood prop warp, though I suppose it's possible if left
out in the rain with badly worn finish.
"Four stroke engines generally run smoother when used with heavier
propellers. Unfortunately, most wood propellers are very lightweight.
Therefore, they usually aren't suitable to use with four stroke engines."
Tell that to the designers, builders, and owners of hundreds of thousands
of 4-stroke powered aircraft with wood props.
"The density of wood is not uniform. Therefore, two blades of a propeller
that is made from wood may not balance with each other. This can be the
cause even when the blades have identical shapes."
That's not a problem so much as an issue that must be dealt with in
manufacturing. Careful attention to wood selection, final shaping, and
finishing means any new wood prop you buy from a reputable manufacturer
will balance properly.
-Dana
--
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer
to pick on rich women than biker gangs.
Message 27
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At 04:57 PM 9/9/2008, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL wrote:
>...When installing these new tanks in June, I used Tygon for those two
>5-inch pieces of flexible fuel line in each tank...
>...air was being sucked into the fuel line
>from the space between the inside of the flex line and the SS pickup
>pipe. I couldn't believe that Tygon would lose its flexibility so
>quickly from sitting in gas.
Dennis, since we've been discussing various types of tubing, what kind of
Tygon was it? Their yellow "Fuel and Lubricant Tubing"? Or something else?
-Dana
--
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer
to pick on rich women than biker gangs.
Message 28
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Dennis
I hope everyone reads and remembers your story -- only way to fly
safe is to check EVERYTHING you can, whether you think it needs
checking or not. Sounds as tho your attention to detail avoided an in-
flight engine-out.
Good man , nice going
do not archive
On Sep 9, 2008, at 4:57 PM, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL wrote:
> AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
>
> << The tygon and clear vinyl type fuel lines are substandard and cheap
> ... >>
>
>
> Grant -
>
> I'll second JetPilot's statement above, and will back it up with this
> short story:
> (OK - maybe a medium length story) (This all happened to me in the
> past
> month.)
>
> I installed new fuel tanks in my Mark-3 (2 x 6 gal) recently.
> They are the stock, top-feed type tanks, with the stainless 1/4" pipe
> dropping down into the tank. At the bottom end of the SS pipe is a
> 5-inch piece of flexible fuel hose, the other end of which is
> connected
> to the finger screen, which rests on the bottom of the tank.
>
> When installing these new tanks in June, I used Tygon for those two
> 5-inch pieces of flexible fuel line in each tank, for the finger
> screens. It was new, unused tubing that I happened to have in my
> aircraft supply bin, so I used it. It was in brand new condition -
> soft, flexible, very rubbery. Since there is zero stress on that
> little
> piece of fuel line sitting at the bottom of the tank, I figured it
> would
> be OK. I was wrong.
>
> (NOTE - the entire rest of my fuel system is plumbed using the black
> Neoprene automotive fuel line, as you've seen recommended already in
> this thread.)
>
> After only 3 months of sitting in gasoline, that piece of flex line
> lost
> its flexibility, and actually expanded a little bit. I discovered
> this
> last week when I went to start the engine, and I turned on the
> electric
> fuel pump (before starting the engine). I can always confirm that the
> EFP is pushing fuel uphill to the engine when I see the fuel bubbling
> though the clear glass fuel filter, located up at engine level.
>
> I saw no fuel flowing through the fuel filter, even though the EFP was
> on.
> (Here's a plug for being able to see your fuel somewhere in the fuel
> circuit, even if only at one point!)
>
> The tanks each still had a gallon of gas, so the pickup screens were
> well submerged in fuel. But the junction of the flex line and SS pipe
> was ABOVE the fuel level, and air was being sucked into the fuel line
> from the space between the inside of the flex line and the SS pickup
> pipe. I couldn't believe that Tygon would lose its flexibility so
> quickly from sitting in gas.
>
> Right away, I replaced the Tygon with the black Neoprene auto fuel
> line
> (I use Gates, heavy wall), and all is well again.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Mark-3 Classic, N93DK
>
>
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Wood props, was: Re: wood resonance 912 |
I'm a little surprised at the recent wood-prop bashing that's
appeared on the List.
Wood props, as had been said, have been around forever and work VERY
WELL. You can't argue with many many many years of good wood-prop
service.
These two links cited are from (1) a man who I doubt has much real
wood-prop experience (he lists chess and music as two main
activities), and (2) from a manufacturer of composite props. So what
would you expect? I'm not at all surprised at their comments
And I wonder how many hours 'jetpilot' has flown behind a wood prop?
Didn't think they used them on jets.
do not archive
On Sep 9, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 02:23 PM 9/9/2008, JetPilot wrote:
>
>> Wood props are very fragile, and are very likely to be broken by
>> something coming off a pusher plane like a Kolb. This is a very
>> well known fact.
>>
>> If anyone out there is starting to wonder after reading Terrys
>> very misleading post, read this:
>>
>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/418892/
>> four_disadvantages_of_aircraft_propellers.html
>>
>> http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~dddj/Powershift.htm
>
> Mike,
>
> I don't agree.
>
> You can't make a blanket statement that "wood props are more
> fragile" or "composite props are better". Wood is more susceptible
> to some kinds of damage and less susceptible to other kinds.
>
> I have seen (especially in the PPG world) wood props in regular use
> with all kinds of damage, and they hold together. I know one pilot
> whose headphones went through the [wood] prop right on takeoff. He
> said it was vibrating so bad that he thought the engine mounts
> would snap, but he made it up and aro
> und for a safe landing. OTOH I have seen composite props come
> completely apart due to what seemed a very minor nick, or even no
> visible damage at all. Wood props are softer, so they're more
> likely to suffer abrasion damage (a major factor for seaplanes or
> airboats with water spray), but that very softness means that a
> nick is less likely to propagate into a major crack.
>
> Also not all composite props are the same. The Warp Drive props,
> as I understand, are solid, rather heavy, and durable. Powerfins,
> with their relatively thin skin and foam core, are much more easily
> damaged. I don't know much about the Ivos.
>
> Wood has some other advantages as well as disadvantages. A wood
> prop is easier to repair if it is damaged. It can get out of
> balance, especially if damaged or neglected (but not because it's
> stored vertical, that's an old wives tale). A composite or metal
> prop can be more efficient due to the thinner blades, but a wood
> prop is easier to modify or "tweak" if it's not quite right. And
> wood is less expensive (I hesitate to say "cheaper").
>
> The websites you cited are both either misleading to this
> discussion or plain wrong. I agree that a composite prop is
> probably better for an airboat, but only due to the specifics of
> their application. OTOH, the associatedcontent site has mostly
> misleading statements:
> "If there is a small split on the propeller, it can easily travel
> up through the wood grain and get larger and cause the propeller to
> fail. You don't want this to happen in the air, so you need to make
> sure there are no cracks or splits before you takeoff."
>
> A small nick in an aluminum prop can also cause a crack to
> propagate, much more likely than a similar nick in a wood prop.
> "Propellers that are made from wood can warp over time. Changes in
> temperature and humidity can easily cause wood propellers to warp."
>
> I have never seen a wood prop warp, though I suppose it's possible
> if left out in the rain with badly worn finish.
> "Four stroke engines generally run smoother when used with heavier
> propellers. Unfortunately, most wood propellers are very
> lightweight. Therefore, they usually aren't suitable to use with
> four stroke engines."
>
> Tell that to the designers, builders, and owners of hundreds of
> thousands of 4-stroke powered aircraft with wood props.
> "The density of wood is not uniform. Therefore, two blades of a
> propeller that is made from wood may not balance with each other.
> This can be the cause even when the blades have identical shapes."
>
> That's not a problem so much as an issue that must be dealt with in
> manufacturing. Careful attention to wood selection, final shaping,
> and finishing means any new wood prop you buy from a reputable
> manufacturer will balance properly.
>
> -Dana
> --
> People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's
> safer to pick on rich women than biker gangs.
>
>
Message 30
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|
Subject: | Re: Kolb List re: resonance 912 |
Gene- I have no idea what you are talking about!- I can't make out anythi
ng, and don't know whose computer puts the "3D" there.
-
-------------------------
------------------ Bill
--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Eugene Zimmerman <ez@embarqmail.com> wrote:
From: Eugene Zimmerman <ez@embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List re: resonance 912
Bill,
-Interesting -3D -message illusion.-
Took me awhile to "get" it though.
Gene
On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:51 AM, william sullivan wrote:
- Ted- I have no experience, but- I think somebody went through this a
few months ago.- Do you have a spare prop you could switch out?
-
-------------------------
--------------- Bill Sullivan
-
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href="3D"http://forums.matronics.com"">http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"">http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
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Is it me or does anyone else find it strange that the most belligerent
and rude person on this list hides behind a pseudonym for his identity.
Is there a reason he doesn't want people to know who he is?!!! Most
everyone else signs with their real name and is known to the group.
While the rest of us might disagree we don't find it necessary to insult
the other person by calling them stupid and other names when they don't
agree. Of course, as long as some others on the list encourage his bad
behavior, he will continue to feed on it.
Maybe after he sells his plane, he will evaporate from here!!!!
Terry - FireFly #95
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I think I'm one of the 2 individuals Terry mentions...:)
The key section from the relevant CFR George quoted is:
> (a) Receive and log ground and flight training from an authorized
instructor
in a make and model of light-sport aircraft that is *within the same set of
aircraft*
as the make and model of aircraft you intend to operate;
Here's an FAA link to the "Sets"
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/sport_pilot/media/aircraft_sets.pdf
So, I have an AP-5, ASEL tricycle gear over 87kts (earned in an Evektor
Sportstar). However, this would not allow me to fly my Firefly, which is
AP-2, ASEL Tailwheel under 87kts. However, with a tail wheel endorsement
Aeronca Champ, I can legally fly the Firefly.
The problem I have is that the local FBO sold the Champ, and I'll need a
bi-annual soon. Technically, you could take the flight test "ground
observed" in a single place ELSA (I do not know of anyone who did). Does
any one know if the flight portion of the bi-annual can be done in a single
place?
Chuck Davis
Firefly N7057K
Time: 09:10:18 AM PST US
From: TK <tkrolfe@toast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: LSA
George Alexander wrote:
>
>
> tc1917(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>> I may be wrong here, correct me please, but I was under the impression
that
>> an AP-1 rating was a lesser rating than AP-2. In other words, if you had
an
>> AP-2, you were qualified in tail dragger AND nose wheel. You were
stepping
>> up a notch. Same as if you are rated for over 87 knots, you were
>> automatically qualified for the lesser of the ratings. Any other way of
>> interpreting it would be ridiculous.
>>
>
>
> Ted:
>
> For Sport Pilot, no "ranking" of LSA sets. The practical test for Sport
Pilot
gets you a set endorsement for the aircraft used. Have to do additional
work
for the others you want/need. Differences in handling characteristics is
the
reason given for the additional requirement(s).
>
> >From the FARs.......
>
> Sec. 61.323
>
> How do I obtain privileges to operate a make and model of light-sport
aircraft
in the same category and class within a different set of aircraft?
>
> If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek to operate a make and model
of
light-sport aircraft in the same category and class but within a different
set
of aircraft as the make and model of aircraft for which you have received an
endorsement, you must-
> (a) Receive and log ground and flight training from an authorized
instructor
in a make and model of light-sport aircraft that is within the same set of
aircraft
as the make and model of aircraft you intend to operate;
> (b) Receive a logbook endorsement from the authorized instructor who
provided
you with the aircraft specific training specified in paragraph (a) of this
section
certifying you are proficient to operate the specific make and model of
light-sport aircraft.
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> FS II R503 N709FS
> http://gtalexander.home.att.
>
George,
If I understand you correctly, if I were to get certified as a Sport
Pilot in an Aeronca then I would only be allowed to fly that type of
plane? What does that do to those that have transitioned from a GA
licenses to Sport Pilot. Are they then restricted to only flying their
current aircraft type? I know of two individuals that have transitioned
to Sport Pilot and was wondering how it would affect them.
I'm having second thoughts about Sport Pilot certification if that is
the restriction.
Terry - FireFly #95
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Subject: | Re: Kolb List re: resonance 912 |
Bill
I had trouble too -- this is all I got:
>
> On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:51 AM, william sullivan wrote:
>
>> Ted- I have no experience, but I think somebody went through
>> this a few months ago. Do you have a spare prop you could switch
>> out?
>>
>> Bill Sullivan
>>
>> 3D=======================
>> 3D=====================
>> href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"">http://
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> 3D=======================
>> 3D=====================
>> href="3D"http://forums.matronics.com"">http://forums.matronics.com
>> 3D=======================
>> 3D=====================
>> href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"">http://
>> www.matronics.com/contribution
>> 3D=======================
>> 3D=====================
>>
>
>
> _-
> ========================
> 3D=======================3
> D============
> _-
> ========================
> 3D=======================3
> D============
> _-
> ========================
> 3D=======================3
> D============
> _-
> ========================
> 3D=======================3
> D============
>
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- Russ- I get the same thing.- I've seen it before, but nobody ever com
mented on it. I dunno.
-
do not archive
-------------------------
------------------ Bill Sullivan
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Subject: | Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE |
Brother Hague:
Had an interesting experience with the blue Bing down here... In service, it became
the Brown Bing... and in some instances, the Black Bing with a brown furry
side dish after about 5 months on the job. The puzzling aspect of the situation
was that the clear Tygon fuel line pieces installed in the same system for
the same period of time yellowed a little, but remained clean and unaffected
inside. They were still soft and flexible. The attached photo shows the strange
deterioration of the blue line, along with samples of the new blue stuff
from the same batch of the corrupted Bing line and another batch of blue line
obtained from another source.
I have no idea what caused this. I use only Amoco Premium gas and PZ air cooled
oil. I changed out the lines with clear Tygon and have had no recurrence of
this problem
Worth what ye paid fer it...
Non-Blue beauford
FF-076
Brandon, FL
Read this topic online here:
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Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/blueline_617.jpg
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I can't quote verse and scripture, but I don't think it's allowed for the
biannual.
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 6:40 PM, Charles Davis <ceddavis@gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem I have is that the local FBO sold the Champ, and I'll need a
> bi-annual soon. Technically, you could take the flight test "ground
> observed" in a single place ELSA (I do not know of anyone who did). Does
> any one know if the flight portion of the bi-annual can be done in a single
> place?
>
> Chuck Davis
> Firefly N7057K
>
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tkrolfe(at)toast.net wrote:
> Is it me or does anyone else find it strange that the most belligerent
> and rude person on this list hides behind a pseudonym for his identity.
> Is there a reason he doesn't want people to know who he is?!!! Most
> everyone else signs with their real name and is known to the group.
> While the rest of us might disagree we don't find it necessary to insult
> the other person by calling them stupid and other names when they don't
> agree. Of course, as long as some others on the list encourage his bad
> behavior, he will continue to feed on it.
>
> Maybe after he sells his plane, he will evaporate from here!!!!
>
> Terry - FireFly #95
Terry,
I always sign my posts, sometimes with my full name, sometimes with my first name.
There has never been any hiding involved on my part, anyone that uses this
list knows this. I do not appreciate you resorting to lies to mislead this
group.
The last time things got ugly on this list, you jumped in with both feet posting
some of the most objectionable things this list has ever seen. Almost everyone
on this list has been able to move on from past ugliness, and let bygones
be bygones. Why do you feel the need to post very objectionable statements at
every opportunity ? Go read what you just posted... Having posted what you
just posted, your statements make you not only a liar, but a hypocrite. I am
sure everyone on the list will be thrilled to see that you are doing your best
to turn things ugly again.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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cedavis wrote:
>
>
>
> The problem I have is that the local FBO sold the Champ, and I'll need a bi-annual
soon. Technically, you could take the flight test "ground observed" in
a single place ELSA (I do not know of anyone who did). Does any one know if the
flight portion of the bi-annual can be done in a single place?
>
> Chuck Davis
> Firefly N7057K
>
>
>
>
Chuck:
Don't think the flight instruction portion of the review is allowed in a single
place. Beyond the single place issue, don't think it matters what a/c you use.
As long as the instructor is willing..... Not even sure it has to be LSA.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
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Rick,
I SAW the same experience with a wooden prop on a 447 on a trike that I fly. One
day a nylon strap came down and bounced off the tip of the wooden prop... Not
catch, but just bounce off the tip... I signaled the pilot to cut the engine
so that we could secure the strap. When the engine stopped, the result of
this very light strike was a large split from the tip to the hub. The nylon strap
did not have a mark on it...
The wooden prop was beyond repair, so we replaced it with a Powerfin. The Powerfin
is quieter, smoother, and gives us better performance on the 447. Given
what I have seen first hand, and many reports like Ricks of wooden props taking
major damage due to the slightest nick, there is no way I would ever put a
wooden prop on a pusher plane. The balance and hub torque problems just make
a bad situation worse.
Wooden props have been around since the very beginning of flight, for many years
they were the only propeller option people had. There is a very good reason
that wooden props are almost never used on certified aircraft anymore. The
almost total and complete switch from wood to aluminum and composite propellers
did not happen for no reason. From small Cessnas and Light Sport airplanes,
to larger piston airplanes, almost no one is using wood anymore. Aside from
the few Nostalgic and antique repleca airplanes, wooden props are a thing of the
past. The vast majority of aircraft engineers and designers recognize that
wood propellers are inferior, and would never consider using them on modern aircraft.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> When installing these new tanks in June, I used Tygon for those two
> 5-inch pieces of flexible fuel line in each tank
snip...
> After only 3 months of sitting in gasoline, that piece of flex line lost
> its flexibility, and actually expanded a little bit.
Then, on the other side of the experience continuum....
I have fuel grade Tygon F-4040-A fuel and lubricant tubing at the
bottom of my tanks, in a setup similar to yours, and they've been
there for 13 years. Still like new with very minor swelling and no
cracks, abrasions.
There's a huge difference in Tygon formulations. Just happening to
have some yellow tubing lying around doesn't ensure that it's the
correct formulation. I'm sure that most folks are convinced that
Tygon is the Devil's own spawn and I'd have to say that assumption
would be correct...IF you haven't taken the time to research the
issue.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
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Subject: | Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE |
In a message dated 9/9/2008 6:41:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
d-m-hague@comcast.net writes:
I still prefer the blue Bing line.
-Dana
I just replaced my fuel line with blue tubing I got from LEAF. It has , B.A.
I. on it Any idea what the B.A.I. stands for? I used this line for a year
and a half and it still seemed strong and reasonably soft
Ed D.
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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Subject: | Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE |
At 09:03 PM 9/9/2008, beauford wrote:
>Had an interesting experience with the blue Bing down here... In service,
>it became the Brown Bing... and in some instances, the Black Bing with a
>brown furry side dish after about 5 months on the job...
Interesting. The blue line that was on my Ultrastar when I bought it
looked like that, but I don't know how old it was. OTOH I have some blue
line on one of my PPG's and several years later it looks and feels just
like new.
I wonder if it's not chemical, but UV damage that does the clear tubing in?
-Dana
--
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
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Mike,
Calling Terry a liar and a hypocrite is a perfect example of your
ridiculously short fuse!
His being put off by your consistantly rude and derogatory personal attacks
is most likely the reason he did not pick up on your real name when you use
it, he probably quits reading half way through most of your posts.
Take your own advise and reread what you posted. Your rude comments in the
past have really put a lot of us off.
Denny Rowe, owner of both wood and composite propellers that likes em both.
Also have destroyed both kinds (not on my Kolb) no fault of the props.
>
> Terry,
>
> I always sign my posts, sometimes with my full name, sometimes with my
> first name. There has never been any hiding involved on my part, anyone
> that uses this list knows this. I do not appreciate you resorting to lies
> to mislead this group.
>
> The last time things got ugly on this list, you jumped in with both feet
> posting some of the most objectionable things this list has ever seen.
> Almost everyone on this list has been able to move on from past ugliness,
> and let bygones be bygones. Why do you feel the need to post very
> objectionable statements at every opportunity ? Go read what you just
> posted... Having posted what you just posted, your statements make you not
> only a liar, but a hypocrite. I am sure everyone on the list will be
> thrilled to see that you are doing your best to turn things ugly again.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
> could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
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Terry, it's like this: the only way you will ever get any relief from this problem
of bad manners and rudeness is to give up on the list and find something else
to do.
Guess how I know this?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | Re: Tygon F4040A FUEL LINE |
At 10:31 PM 9/9/2008, DAquaNut@aol.com wrote:
>
> I just replaced my fuel line with blue tubing I got from LEAF. It
> has , B.A. I. on it Any idea what the B.A.I. stands for? I used this
> line for a year and a half and it still seemed strong and reasonably soft
>
B.A.I. = Bing Agency International
-Dana
--
As I learn the innermost secrets of the people around me, they reward me
in many ways to keep me quiet.
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Subject: | Re: resonance 912 |
Ted,
Sorry for late response. Using Internet at work. Still without power from Gustav
(day 8).
Do not know if this will be helpful. I had a drumming problem when I first built
my Mark IIIC w/ 912. It was my one and only attempt at plane building. I opted
for the full enclosure. Problem was that the cage was fabricated with a
slight bow outward at the bulkhead at shoulder level. This resulted in a small
gap (less than 1/8") between the fabric and a couple of the long tubes on the
side of the cage. I couldn't see it with a string line. With some speed and
a big prop, the drumming would start.
On the rebuild/modification, I used John Williamson's method. Started with fabric
on bottom and rolled over each tube and glued. Overlapped and taped a joint
to start for the next section. I'm not a fabric stitcher.
Made a big difference. Much quieter and a bit faster. Not sure how much the fabric
drumming affected speed. My plane is faster after the rebuild and I'm leaning
to that as a big contributor. That or I knocked it into trim with that
high/hard landing.
Long shot but may help. I remember looking at your plane's instrument panel but
did not pay attention to the rear area. Do not know if this will apply.
best wishes!
--------
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as slow as you could have
!!!
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Mr. Pike,
You're missed by at least some of us on the list. I look forward to seeing you
and the rest of the Kolb gang at the Homecoming.
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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Chuck Davis wrote:
> Technically, you could take the flight
> test "ground
> observed" in a single place ELSA (I do not know of
> anyone who did). Does
> any one know if the flight portion of the bi-annual can be
> done in a single
> place?
>
I took my practical flight test in my single seat ELSA Maxair Drifter, with the
examiner observing from the ground. Now that my bi-annual is coming up, I have
checked with EAA and the FAA and have been told that the bi-annual MUST be taken
in a two-seater with the examiner...because the bi-annual is meant to be
for instruction, not a test. If John W. were still with us, he could quote the
regs.
Arty Trost
Maxair Drifter
Sandy, Oregon
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Richard Pike wrote:
> Terry, it's like this: the only way you will ever get any relief from this problem
of bad manners and rudeness is to give up on the list and find something
else to do.
>
> Guess how I know this?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Richard,
The only way you will ever get relief from this problem is to not to try to start
shit and rekindle bad feelings at every opportunity. If anyone should know
this, it should be you... You are a pretty poor excuse for a preacher, you sure
do not practice what the bible teaches when you support this kind of behavior
by Terry. If you believe in God, one day you will have to answer to him for
it.
Lets see here, Terry starts this shit again with multiple personal attacks, and
then you bad apples criticize me for responding. Its obvious that you don't
give a damn about right and wrong. There is not a one of you that would sit
back and take something like Terry posted.
So if a few of you bad apples support this behavior by Terry, then don't complain
when things get ugly. Don't post unwarranted personal attacks then cry like
babies when things get ugly on the list. There are a lot of people on this
list that see how you bad apples operate, you are only making yourselves look
like the hypocrites you are. We have been down this road before.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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