---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/17/08: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:02 AM - Re: airspeed tubing (pj.ladd) 2. 05:42 AM - help with wiring (grantr) 3. 05:55 AM - Re: airspeed tubing (cristalclear13) 4. 05:56 AM - Re: help with wiring (John Hauck) 5. 06:39 AM - Kolb List: airspeed tubing (william sullivan) 6. 06:42 AM - Kolb List: help with wiring (william sullivan) 7. 06:43 AM - Re: help with wiring (herb) 8. 07:57 AM - Re: help with wiring (George Alexander) 9. 08:19 AM - Re: airspeed tubing (JetPilot) 10. 09:11 AM - Re: airspeed tubing (cristalclear13) 11. 01:33 PM - Re: fuel line? (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 12. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: fuel line? (Richard Girard) 13. 07:34 PM - 2008 Kolb Homecoming (John Hauck) 14. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: fuel line? (John Hauck) 15. 08:35 PM - Kolb homecomming. (Arksey@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:04 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: airspeed tubing saw my airspeed indicator was not moving. >> Hi Cristal, replace it with any tube you like. It will work. I had my ASI gradually fail on the climb out once. Climbing at 55 and then the needle began to fall back. It is automatic to lower the nose in such a case and as the ASI indicated slower and slower so I kept pushing the stick forward until I found myself with the nose well below the horizon and the speed still falling. Once I had picked up the horizon of course I realised what was wrong and ignored the ASI until I had landed. Inspection found that a spider had got well up the pitot and when I took off the speed pushed it back into the right angle bend I had in the tube, and blocked it completely. Always put a boot on the exposed pitot now. Unless your plastic tube is in a very exposed place it seems unlikely that someone woul;d have cut it unless they really don`t like you. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: help with wiring From: "grantr" Since i got my plane home I have been doing some work on it to get it like I want it. Anyway I ran into a strange situation yesterday. I disconnected the ground leads from the battery a few days ago and yesterday when I turned on the key to me amazement the hour meter started running/ clicking. After this I took my volt meter and stuck the ground lead to the airframe and the positive to the positive side of the battery and got 12 volts. [Question] This has me confused. Then I disconnected the positive side of the battery and tried the key again. This time the hour meter did not run. Then I took my tester and stuck the positive lead to each of the positive wires. One wire leading to the blue box the voltage regulator consistently read 2.5 volts. So tell me how in the world can the hour meter run and the volt meter read 12 volts with the ground side of the battery is completed disconnected from everything? I did touch the fuel pump lead to the positive side of the battery and the ground to the frame and it would not run or arc so I am guessing the engine would not turn over, however the 2.5 volts and the 12 volt readings have me confused. Any ideas? I didn't try the starter since the plane was folded up [Rolling Eyes] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4750#204750 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: airspeed tubing From: "cristalclear13" slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: > Cut in two? vandalism? > I suppose I used the wrong word "cut", but it seems strange to use "broke" with plastic. I'm not indicating it was vandalism because I keep it locked up. I haven't seen many plastic tubes break in half except when you bend them good and they've been out in the sun. The man who had the plane before me had it under a shelter. I've kept it hangered. I don't know about before the previous owner...it's had several. My tube was just a straight line from the ASI to the pitot tube. But the plastic was yellow and felt old so perhaps it had a weak spot and the vibrations of the plane made it weak. Also I had JBWelded my pitot tube to the front of my nosecone because it kept sliding in and out of the hole a little. Perhaps that put a little stress on the old plastic tube as well. Now I wish I hadn't welded it...will make it a little more challenging to fix. The break is very close to the very front of the nosecone (where my pitot tube sticks out the very tip/front). I didn't know if there was a special size of tube to replace it or if it went by ASI manufacturer specs or if there was something from aircraft spruce maybe someone else had ordered and used. But if you guys say I can use anything, then that's good. Actually my son had the idea to duct tape it. I did try that and it worked for a flight around the pattern but I don't know if I want to keep it that way. :) -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4751#204751 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:36 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: help with wiring > So tell me how in the world can the hour meter run and the volt meter read 12 volts with the ground side of the battery is completed disconnected from everything? I did touch the fuel pump lead to the positive side of the battery and the ground to the frame and it would not run or arc so I am guessing the engine would not turn over, however the 2.5 volts and the 12 volt readings have me confused. > > Any ideas? Grant R: If you have a large capacitor wired into the 12DVC side of the reg/rec, it will act as a battery for a very short period of time, enough to operate the hour meter and show some voltage indications. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:18 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List: airspeed tubing - Cristal---I don't now exactly what kind of plastic tubing you have, but some of the plastic air lines used on trucks would break just like dry spaghetti when they got old.- Somebody said the plastic would "dry out" with age.- Inside the nose cone, somebody's toe could have touched it. - ------------------------- --------------------- Bill Sulliv an - ------------------------- ---------------------- - - ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:47 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List: help with wiring - Grant- do you have a radio or GPS with a back-up battery?- Could be g etting feedback from there. - ------------------------- ---------------- Bill Sullivan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:36 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: help with wiring second battery somewhere or your charger is hooked up...? Herb At 07:41 AM 9/17/2008, you wrote: > >Since i got my plane home I have been doing some work on it to get >it like I want it. Anyway I ran into a strange situation yesterday. >I disconnected the ground leads from the battery a few days ago and >yesterday when I turned on the key to me amazement the hour meter >started running/ clicking. After this I took my volt meter and >stuck the ground lead to the airframe and the positive to the >positive side of the battery and got 12 volts. [Question] This >has me confused. Then I disconnected the positive side of the >battery and tried the key again. This time the hour meter did not >run. Then I took my tester and stuck the positive lead to each of >the positive wires. One wire leading to the blue box the voltage >regulator consistently read 2.5 volts. > >So tell me how in the world can the hour meter run and the volt >meter read 12 volts with the ground side of the battery is completed >disconnected from everything? I did touch the fuel pump lead to the >positive side of the battery and the ground to the frame and it >would not run or arc so I am guessing the engine would not turn >over, however the 2.5 volts and the 12 volt readings have me confused. > >Any ideas? > >I didn't try the starter since the plane was folded up [Rolling Eyes] > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4750#204750 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:11 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: help with wiring From: "George Alexander" grantr wrote: > > > > ---- SNIP ---- > > So tell me how in the world can the hour meter run and the volt meter read 12 volts with the ground side of the battery is completed disconnected from everything? I did touch the fuel pump lead to the positive side of the battery and the ground to the frame and it would not run or arc so I am guessing the engine would not turn over, however the 2.5 volts and the 12 volt readings have me confused. > > Any ideas? > > Grant: Try disconnecting the Pos (+) side of the rect/reg (blue box? sounds like a Key West) and see if the hour meter continues to run. There is a small, residual voltage that takes some time to drain off on the output circuitry of the rect/reg. (You may have to wait until you run the engine before you try this one since that residual voltage may have drained off.) Whatever the source, it doesn't take much to click the hour meter over. I added a relay so that the hour meter will not run unless the engine is powering the rect/reg. Your other question about the VM reading 12V with the ground side of the battery disconnected.... either got to be another source for the 12V or a ground circuit that you haven't discovered yet. My $.02 worth...... -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4773#204773 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:49 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: airspeed tubing From: "JetPilot" cristalclear13 wrote: > > Actually my son had the idea to duct tape it. I did try that and it worked for a flight around the pattern but I don't know if I want to keep it that way. :) > Hahaha, I like that, he must have really wanted to go flying with you ! Be careful though, once he learns how to fly, you will have to fight him over who gets to use plane ! Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4776#204776 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: airspeed tubing From: "cristalclear13" JetPilot wrote: > > cristalclear13 wrote: > > > > Actually my son had the idea to duct tape it. I did try that and it worked for a flight around the pattern but I don't know if I want to keep it that way. :) > > > > > Hahaha, I like that, he must have really wanted to go flying with you ! Be careful though, once he learns how to fly, you will have to fight him over who gets to use plane ! > > Mike Actually he sat that one out Mike. I do any "test" flights by myself. He knows how much I LOVE to fly and does what he can to make things work out for me. -------- Cristal Waters Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4789#204789 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fuel line? From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" "JetPilot" wrote: << The paper fuel filter has been replaced with a Challenger Stainless Steel 10 micron fuel filter from Aircraft Spruce. It was expensive, ... 130 dollars for the filter. The stainless steel filter is designed to be taken apart and cleaned, so it should be a one time purchase. Mike >> Mike, and Kolbers - Another (less expensive) option to the paper element filter are the in-line clear glass "micro screen" cartridge filters, available at most auto parts stores. You've heard them recommended by various Kolbers more than once over the past several years. Purolator and Mr Gasket make these types of filters; I'm sure there are others. They're usually under 15 dollars. The screens are replaceable - you just toss the old one. Because they're glass, you can see the junk accumulating on the screen inside, and change it when necessary. I do this every annual. At annual, I also check and replace the rubber o-rings on the filter (there are 2). Easy, cheap, and o-rings are always available. I remember Hauck telling us the story of how the glass on his Purolator filter broke once (John - I do not recall the details, did that happen in flight?), which prompted him to replace the glass tube with the same diameter, same length piece of alum tube. Works the same. Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul NM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:36 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: fuel line? Dennis, all, I have recent experience with the filter you describe marketed under the Mr. Gasket brand name. In a word it was junk. As it happens, I had one of the originals, which proudly said made in the USA cast into one of the end pieces, to compare it to (ran it on my Harley until I switched from the S & S carb to the SU, but that's another story). The difference between the two is that the center piece on the original was round and the filter fit on it snugly so that it could take a bit of compression and allow the filter element to seal against the ends without distortion. The center section also had machined threads that were dead square to it and of a fit that the ends threaded on smoothly and enabled the o-ring seal in each end to do as it was intended. The barbed ends for the fuel lines were cast into the ends and then machined for a good seal on the fuel line. Of course that meant you had to purchase the proper filter for the size fuel line you were using. On the Mr. Gasket version (made proudly in the land where they put melamine in baby formula so they can kill their children for a few cents profit, but that truly is another story) the center is a flat casting of pot metal made so poorly that the threads were misaligned side to side (the parting line of the casting ran right down the middle) so that in order to actually function as threads they are so loose as to be worthless and the misalignment causes the ends to hold the glass barrel so that one side of the o-ring didn't even touch the barrel. If the ends were screwed down enough to stop it from leaking the o-ring was chewed up by the parting line inside the cap. The threads on the center, being only an 1/8" (~3mm) thick got distorted furthering the problem of their being too poor a fit to start with. When the ends were screwed down enough to make a sort of seal the ends were visibly out of square and the filter was buckled on one side. The end caps are threaded and several sizes of plastic barb fittings are supplied so it's a one filter fits all (1/4, 5/16, and 3/8) common fuel lines. The problem here was that there was so much chrome buildup on the first two threads on the cap that they stripped the plastic fittings as you threaded them in. Regular brass barbed fittings would not thread in at all. My suggestion would be that if you are buying on of these cheap knock off filters you get it at the local auto parts so you can ask the nice kid behind the counter if you can open it right there and inspect it for these types of defects. It won't solve your search for an alternative to paper fuel filters, but it will save you your $15 or a trip back to the store to return it. Just my experience, yours might be different. Rick do no archive On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL < Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote: > Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> > > > "JetPilot" wrote: << The paper fuel filter has been replaced with > a Challenger Stainless Steel 10 micron fuel filter from Aircraft Spruce. > > It was expensive, ... 130 dollars for the filter. The stainless steel > filter is designed to be taken apart and cleaned, so it should be a one > time purchase. Mike >> > > > Mike, and Kolbers - > > Another (less expensive) option to the paper element filter are the > in-line clear glass "micro screen" cartridge filters, available at most > auto parts stores. You've heard them recommended by various Kolbers > more than once over the past several years. > > Purolator and Mr Gasket make these types of filters; I'm sure there are > others. They're usually under 15 dollars. The screens are replaceable > - you just toss the old one. Because they're glass, you can see the > junk accumulating on the screen inside, and change it when necessary. I > do this every annual. At annual, I also check and replace the rubber > o-rings on the filter (there are 2). Easy, cheap, and o-rings are > always available. > > I remember Hauck telling us the story of how the glass on his Purolator > filter broke once (John - I do not recall the details, did that happen > in flight?), which prompted him to replace the glass tube with the same > diameter, same length piece of alum tube. Works the same. > > > Dennis Kirby > Mark-3, 912ul > NM > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:39 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: 2008 Kolb Homecoming Hi Gang: Bruce Chaison made it into Wetumpka Airport this afternoon from Louisiana, his first cross country in his MKIII/912ULS. In the morning James Tripp, Bruce and I will take off for Labhart Field, KY, via Rome, GA, and Rockwood, TN, 342 sm. James T will be flying his FSII/503. Weather is supposed to be good on into next week. Hope the weather folks are correct. We look forward to meeting up with all the Kolb folks tomorrow. Take care, john h mkIII - 2,858.6 hours 912ULS - 290.1 hours ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:58 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: fuel line? Rick: Most of us bought a Purolator. Been using one for 24 years, and about 4,30 0 hours on my three Kolbs. Only problem I had with mine was a cracked glas s cylinder the first night it was on my Ultrastar. Replaced it with a piec e of aluminum tube, 7/8X.058, and have been filtering fuel every since, alm ost 18,000 gallons. ;-) Most all the popular parts houses have the Purolator fuel filter with glass cylinder and nylon mesh filter. One of the convenient thing about this filter is the small elements and "0" rings. They fit in my flight bag, taking up nearly no space. I can stick a couple replacements in there. Changing out requires a common screw driv er and a 1/2" or 13mm wrench. Pretty simple. I like it that way. john h mkIII Dennis, all, I have recent experience with the filter you describe market ed under the Mr. Gasket brand name. In a word it was junk. Just my experience, yours might be different. Rick ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:15 PM PST US From: Arksey@AOL.COM Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb homecomming. Hi gang, Rick Neilsen and I will be leaving Mich. for London Ky by car thru..will be there late afternoon. Weather looks good...see you all . Jim Swan Firestar ll 503 Michigan do not archive **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. 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