---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/27/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Re: Platypus Hop (Tony Oldman) 2. 01:16 AM - Re: Platypus Hop (David Lucas) 3. 04:45 AM - Firestar winter project for sale (Thom Riddle) 4. 07:16 AM - Re: VG update () 5. 07:23 AM - FALCON AIRSPEED INDICATOR (frank goodnight) 6. 01:14 PM - Kolb List Re: platypus hop (william sullivan) 7. 02:32 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: platypus hop (John Hauck) 8. 04:05 PM - Kolb List Re: Platypus hop (william sullivan) 9. 04:08 PM - Kolb List Re: platypus hop (henry.voris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:42 AM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Platypus Hop Congratulations on your solo. You know you can never repeat that experiance. Always be prepaired to leave tera firma when taxiing . I have never flown a extra but the MK111 will lift off in that attitude no problem. It just wants to be off the ground . Regards Downunder Tony MK111 From: VICTOR PETERS To: Kolb list Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:18 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Platypus Hop To the rest of u it would be a crow hop (or negative Kolb Drop) but I think my Xtra looks more like a platypus. Since all I have is 2.2 hrs. legal instruction all I can do is taxi practice for now. I've taxied at 3600rpm and maybe 30 mph while keeping the tail hard to the ground. This time I was down wind at maybe 2600rpm and no more than 25 mph. I released back pressure on the stick but still with full back trim. This is actually neutral elevator cause the prop just pushes it down. I just did this to keep the tail wind from pushing me all over the place. Bada Bing my first solo flight. I couldn't believe it did a 3 point lift off going that slow. To my amazement I did'nt panic just held the stick where it was and slight easing back of power. Landed like a feather. Now I know to experienced pilots thats a non event but to a 60 yr old newbie that 3.5 second 6ft altitude flight was monumental. I was so tickled with myself I had to tell someone and then take a nap. Vic Xtra 912ul N740VP ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:11 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Platypus Hop From: "David Lucas" > I was so tickled with myself I had to tell someone and then take a nap. > Priceless Vic ! Absolutely priceless ! David. Do Not Achieve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6411#206411 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:13 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar winter project for sale From: "Thom Riddle" Fellow Kolbers, I've decided to sell my early Firestar. It is in need of some repairs as described on the following web page. http://riddletr.googlepages.com/kolbfirestarforsale If you are interested, please email me with questions. -------- Thom Riddle CFI-SP Power Plant Mechanic N1208P RANS S6S, Tailwheel, 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- Scratch any cynic, he said, and youll find a disappointed idealist. George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6414#206414 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:49 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VG update After reading the numbers on the different VG installations I decided it give them a try. Mark III/912...594 lbs empty...no flaps installed. 10 gas in main fuel tanks and 3 gals in reserve nose tank for test flights. total of 13 gals. W/O VG's 175 lbs pilot stall 44 asi ....W VG'S 36 asi power on W/O VG'S 375 lbs duel stall 50 asi.... W VG'S 40 asi power on 31 VG'S total installed on wings 10 back from leading edge and set between every other rib plus 3 on the wing gap seal It also increased the rate of climb 200 to 400 fpm. Ground roll smoother and shorter and landings much better and just wants to float in ground affect, very soft landings. There maybe a 1-2 mph lose on cruise and all testing was done in calm air Worth the $35 including shipping off e-bay From: VICTOR PETERS Sent: 2008-08-11 10:31 Subject: Kolb-List: VG update Since everyon is posting #'s 1.1 hrs legal instruction MKIII xtra 912ul 590lbs empty 132 vg's on wing tip to tip including gap seal Parallel on vertical stab 2" apart 200lb pilot, calm air, 75 deg. Power off stall 37 ias 35 flaps 39 ias power on 100 ias WOT (5600 rpm) 400lbs of pilot and passenger, full fuel(10 gals) Stall with 2, 45 ias power off No more yank to left with power eased up on takeoff. Pre vg's needed a little right rudder in level flight. Now, slight to no left rudder needed. I'm just guessing but vgs must be helping trim tab work. Landed 60 mph over the fence, forgot to look at touchdown. It was so smooth that if the tires hadn't chirped you would'nt know you had landed. So Ellery you don't have to dive at the runway. Especially with a mile of asphalt, not to be confused with ass fault, thats just a crack. Tickled in Maine Vic N740VP ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:22 AM PST US From: frank goodnight Subject: Kolb-List: FALCON AIRSPEED INDICATOR I BOUGHT A FALCON AIRSPEED INDICATOR FROM AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY. AFTE R INSTALING IT THE HAND READS BETWEEN- 80 & 0 . WHEN I RECIVED IT IT READ 0. I WONDER IF THE HAND CAN BE ADJUSTED ? IT IS A 0 TO 80 MPH- 3 & 1/8 I N. MODEL THERE WERE NO INSTRUCTIONS WITH IT- ANY IDEAS?=0A=0A---- -------- FRANK.GOODNIGHT@ATT.NET=0A=0A=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:30 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List re: platypus hop - Vic- Be very careful!- I still have reason to believe that Kolbs can be airborne at far below the published stall speeds.- When you lift off a t extremely low speeds it would take only a slight breeze to overcome the c ontrol established by the airflow.- Be very alert as to the direction and speed of the wind, especially if it's variable.- I do not know how to in itiate or recover from a crow hop, as I never asked about it. - I now believe that I know what happened to me, and I don't think it was as I first related.- I had my wife look at an aerial photo of the field, and asked her where I took off, and what direction I was going when the li ft-off occurred.- Apparently I had finished taxiing and had started turni ng to my right when the left wing started the lift-off.- I had also been in the habit of keeping the stick firmly to the rear while taxiing.- I ha d also gotten into the habit of using the ailerons to counter any leaning w hile making a tight turn.- In the Firestar the stick had to go forward to accomplish this- all the way back, it was trapped in the "V" of my legs. - The tail popped up with the stick forward a bit, and right aileron.- I immediately pulled the stick back to put the tail down, and the plane pop ped up while heading for an embankment with vertical vent pipes.- As I ha d been advised, I went to full throttle, and the Firestar climbed at an incredible rate and steep angle.- This part had always confused me, beca use I had looked down and saw trees that I knew were off to the right.- N ow I know that the lift-off had caused a turn that brought me to an angle o f more than 90 degrees to the right of the runway.- I noted the ASI was i noperative, and brought the nose down to avoid a stall.- I took it up to 750 feet- no more, as the cloud cover was about 1200.- I leveled out and throttled back to about 5500 to make a turn to my left and re-align with th e runway.- The air was very rough.- I decided to make a fast pass at th e runway to check handling.- I couldn't have asked for a sweeter handling plane- no quirks other than the sensation of sitting in the nosecone of a missile while climbing!- After the fast pass, I checked the windsock- lit tle wind.- I circled around to line up with the runway, and decided to- fly in on.- Rpm's were 5000, and I aimed it for a touch-down spot.- Sp eed unknown, but it stayed aimed at that spot.- When I got a couple of feet off the ground it seemed to go into ground effect, and "floated".- I now know that instead of cutting back on the throttle, I forced it down by push ing the stick forward.- The right gear bent back, and the nose hit, cartw heeling.- I don't remember impact, or crawling out after my wife ran over and released the seat belt.- Next thing I saw was an EMT looking down at me.- No pain, but dirt in my eyes. - I would rate the accuracy of the above at about 80% or better- some is guesswork, and some-I remembered just as I woke up one day about a month ago.- In all probability, what I thought to be a gust was just the sudden lift, or an assist from a slight gust. - Advice for beginners:- Don't do what I did- high lift wing, and no br akes.- I had told everyone I was a beginner, but I don't think I emphasiz ed it enough.- Ignorance was my biggest mistake, and possibly complacency .- Get someone else to try taxiing your plane before you do, and make sur e they are about the same weight.- Let an experienced pilot give you the safe RPM's to taxi.- I had been observed by experienced people who knew I was an beginner, but they did not think I was going too fast.- Appearanc es can be deceptive.- Always use the seatbelt/harness, every time the mot or is running (I did- habit).- If you don't have a radio, and know how to use it, bring a cell phone with the number of an experienced pilot (I didn 't- I was being a mechanic, and saw no need for it).- Another mistake I m ade-- I went up with a full tank of gas, and came back with it.- The pl ane didn't fall apart in the first 5 minutes, so I should have used it to r eally get comfortable with the plane.- I had a BRS, and if it was going to do something drastic I was at an altitude to use it.- I ended up landing ups ide down with a full tank- no spillage, but might have saved me some pain i f I had gotten-a little more familiar with it.- Bring a watch- I didn't .- No gas gauge, and no communications, so I didn't know how long I had. - Later found out the flight was only about 8 minutes.- I also should h ave kept the nav bearings for a long field on me, as the field looked quite short for a beginner in trouble.- This may have influenced my decision t o stuff it in. - I had just taken my first refresher flight in years, and I goofed again .- When the instructor asked me what I wanted to start with, I said, "fam iliarization and orientation" (What's this knob do?, and Where are we?).- I should have shot touch and goes, which is where I left off 40 years ago. - Anybody else have something I missed?- I deeply appreciate any and al l criticism and additions, especially for the benefit of any lurkers or beg inners. - ------------------------- ------------------------- - Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------- - Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------------- - Bent Firestar, under repair ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:45 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List re: platypus hop Bill S: There are no "official" published stall speeds for Kolbs, that I know of. Most all are a little different based on weight of airplane and pilot. Airplanes do not fly below stall speeds. I mentioned to Vic the other day on the Kolb List, taxi speeds, to me, are perceived ground speeds of a fast walk or less, not 25 to 30 mph. Anything faster than that, and you are either transitioning from a landing or takin g off. High speed taxiing in an unfamiliar airplane by an unqualified, untrained s tudent pilot from 40 years ago, is an accident that will happen. I believe you mentioned you were a very low time student pilot, but I may be mistake n. I think it is readily evident why you crashed, you don't know how to fly. How you crashed is irrevalent. Right now I can not think of one good reason for you to be in the airplane running up and down the airstrip in the first place. But I am sure you can. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't think of getting in another airplane unl ess there was an instructor pilot in there with me. Bill S said, "Anybody else have something I missed?" John H said, "Yes, th e training!!!" john h mkIII Vic- Be very careful! I still have reason to believe that Kolbs can be airborne at far below the published stall speeds. I should have shot touch and goes, which is where I left off 40 ye ars ago. Anybody else have something I missed? I deeply appreciate any an d all criticism and additions, especially for the benefit of any lurkers or beginners. Bill Sullivan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:52 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List re: Platypus hop - John- I agree.- We (the students) were given permission for slow taxi ing.- I would not know how slow was slow, or how fast was dangerous.- I am listing every possible mistake I've made so that other's won't make the same ones.- Please continue with the comments.- ------------------------- ------------------- Thank You ------------------------- ------------ ------------------------- ------------------------- - Bill Sullivan ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List re: platypus hop From: "henry.voris" 27sep08 Vic, Way back in '06 when I soloed I did some high speed taxiing... I had Jim Hefner post my an account of my experience. So as not to bore the rest of the rest of the list with my sillyness I've attached a link to that posting. My comments are the second post in the thread... And my thoughts on high speed taxiing haven't changed. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16310&highlight Also... If Dr.Hauck were to pontificate on my flying... I'd genuflect smartly and proceed as advised. Good luck. I hope you're flying soon. It's the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is number one. Aloha, Henry Voris FireFly Five-Charlie-Bravo -------- Henry Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6497#206497 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.