Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Taxi controls with wind (The Kuffels)
2. 02:34 AM - Re:KThree point take off (pj.ladd)
3. 02:50 AM - Re: Taxi controls with wind (pj.ladd)
4. 03:18 AM - Homecoming? (pj.ladd)
5. 03:39 AM - Re: Taxi controls with wind (Richard Girard)
6. 04:21 AM - Re: Taxi controls with wind (pj.ladd)
7. 04:47 AM - Re: Taxi controls with wind (Richard Girard)
8. 05:56 AM - EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o (grantr)
9. 06:16 AM - Re: Taxi controls with wind (LEE CREECH)
10. 06:26 AM - Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o (JetPilot)
11. 06:49 AM - Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o (grantr)
12. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o (Jack B. Hart)
13. 08:05 AM - Platypus Hop (VICTOR PETERS)
14. 08:41 AM - Re: Taxi controls with wind (pj.ladd)
15. 09:03 AM - Re: Platypus Hop (John Hauck)
16. 10:34 AM - Re: Platypus Hop (Jeremy Casey)
17. 02:38 PM - Re: taxiing (russ kinne)
18. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: taxiing (John Hauck)
19. 03:19 PM - Re: Platypus Hop (Ed Chmielewski)
20. 03:53 PM - Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o (grantr)
21. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: taxiing (russ kinne)
22. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: taxiing (robert bean)
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| Subject: | Taxi controls with wind |
<< I thought that the basic rule was `point the stick into wind`.
Not if you have a quartering tailwind... >>
What I teach which works for both stick and wheel controls is:
"Climb toward, dive away"
Of course, if the wind is directly from one side then you are
between climb and dive, ie neutral pitch and roll toward wind.
In the same vein, a direct wind means you are between toward and
away (neutral roll) and pitch up for head wind, pitch down for
tail wind.
Tom Kuffel, CFI
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| Subject: | Re:KThree point take off |
Three point position is perfect for takeoffs.>>
Hi John,
Do you do that?. I know that it is a suggested method but I have
never thought much of the idea. It seems to me that with the tail down
there is a danger of lifting off at a very marginal speed, maybe only
into ground effect in a nose high attitude. Do you then level out to
gain more speed before you climb or can you just climb away?
I always lift the tail in the first few yards and then climb out when
flying speed is reached being already in a flying attitude.
Does taking off tail down decrease the takeoff run needed? I may need to
try it in a STOL situation one day
Cheers
Pat
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| Subject: | Re: Taxi controls with wind |
What I teach which works for both stick and wheel controls is:
"Climb toward, dive away">>
Hi Tom,
I don`t think I am extraordinarily thick but I have no idea what that means.
Does it mean that with the wind blowing on the nose you pull the stick back?
That doesn`t make sense
Explain please
Cheers
Pat
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Hi all,
someone on my jazz list pointed me to this and I thought that what with
the Travis Band and Homers tractors this might be appropriate.
Cheers
Pat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ThSi1wbqU
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| Subject: | Re: Taxi controls with wind |
Pat, The idea is to keep the tail planted on the ground. Living on a grass
strip in a place where the wind blows very hard sometimes, I get to see how
this works simply by looking out the kitchen window.When the aircraft is
pointed downwind, the rule is "dive away from the wind".
If the wind is directly from behind, the ailerons are held in a neutral
position (stick centered) and the elevator is held in the down position
(stick forward).
If the wind is quartering from the left side, say, the ailerons are held so
the left aileron is down, and the elevator is still held down. The stick
then is in the position that if the aircraft was flying, it would be in a
diving turn to the right. Hence the memory aid, "dive away from the wind".
When the aircraft is pointed upwind, the rule is "climb into the wind".
If the wind is from directly ahead, the ailerons are held in a neutral
position (stick centered) and the elevator is held in the up position (stick
back).
If the wind is quartering form the left side, say, the ailerons are held so
the left aileron is up, and the elevator is still held up. If the aircraft
was flying it would be in a climbing turn to the left, hence, "climb into
the wind".
Another way to look at it is that when the aircraft is pointed downwind, the
controls become simple reaction devices, i.e. the air hits the downward
deflected surface and simply pushes the surface down. When the aircraft is
pointed upwind, the controls work as they normally do, aerodynamically.
Now you have to take the "climb into the wind" rule with a bit of historical
perspective. It was formulated when almost all aircraft had the propeller on
the nose and keeping the prop out of the dirt was the primary concern. With
a Kolb, this is not the case. I find myself keeping the elevator in the down
position in all wind orientations. My reasoning is that I'd much rather deal
with a suddenly flying tail (when the wind is from the nose), than a flying,
and stalled, wing. But that's another discussion.
Hope this helps.
Rick
do not archive
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:50 AM, pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> What I teach which works for both stick and wheel controls is:
>
> "Climb toward, dive away">>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I don`t think I am extraordinarily thick but I have no idea what that
> means. Does it mean that with the wind blowing on the nose you pull the
> stick back? That doesn`t make sense
> Explain please
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Taxi controls with wind |
Living on a grass
strip in a place where the wind blows very hard sometimes,>>
Hi Rick,
thanks for the explanation. Sounds as if you taxy around in winds that
would keep me firmly in the hangar.
I can see your logic but I am too old to unlearn something which has
worked all my flying life. I shall stick with `point the stick into
wind` and stay out of strong winds from the rear.
Cheers
Pat
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Taxi controls with wind |
Pat, I stay out of anything over 20 MPH, and luckily we haven't had those
much this year. We did have one storm on March 2nd that was really
impressive. The warning came in on the NOAA radio just two minutes before
70+ winds hit. The sliding glass door bulged inward so much I didn't think
it could possibly hold so I closed the drapes to contain the wreckage.
Fortunately it held and the hedge row upwind of the house deflected the
worst of it. Love those Eastern Red Cedars. My neighbor's hangar didn't fare
so well. The wall with the hangar door flexed inward so far that the door
jumped its tracks and the wind took it and the corner of the building
straight away and out into his yard. And these were winds that weren't even
associated with a tornado, just an energetic frontal passage.
Back to the airplane stuff. There was a fellow in a straight tailed 182 who
failed to position his elevator correctly when making the transition from
upwind to down. Maybe his thinking was that the upward deflected elevator
would provide downward lift. In three oscillations he was near to losing
control of the aircraft when he decided to change his thinking. The moment
he pushed forward on the controls and the elevator went down the
oscillations stopped. Best illustration of proper control positioning I've
ever seen.
Rick
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:21 AM, pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Living on a grass
> strip in a place where the wind blows very hard sometimes,>>
>
> Hi Rick,
> thanks for the explanation. Sounds as if you taxy around in winds that
> would keep me firmly in the hangar.
>
> I can see your logic but I am too old to unlearn something which has worked
> all my flying life. I shall stick with `point the stick into wind` and stay
> out of strong winds from the rear.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o |
Prior to the EGT problem, I installed new fuel lines, fuel filter, electric fuel
pump, Westach dual EGT gauge, One new egt probe, cleaned and reoiled the k&N
filter and rebuilt the pulse pump.
The plane was originally setup with 1 CHT/ EGT westach gauge. I am still using
the CHT side and disconnected the EGT side and plugged it into the new dual EGT
gauge.
CHT is still running the same
Both EGTs are running 1200 degrees from over 4.5K to max rpm. The EGTs held steady
even at full power climb.
I know before the work I did, the PTO cylinder was running in the 900s as indicated
on the single EGT gauge. The original EGT gauge wiring used a telephone
cord which uses longer and thinner wire than the 26 gauge wire I used to connect
the new gauge. So my new wiring is as short as possible and uses a little bit
larger diameter wire.
Is there a way to calibrate the gauge so it is accurate? Should the ends connected
to the EGT gauge have a certain resistant at normal outside temperature?
Also what is the proper way to check the spark plugs? I checked the set thats been
in for 25hrs and they are very light brown. I saw somewhere that the engine
should be shutdown at throttle to get an accurate reading on the plugs. That
doesnt sound like the best thing to do to the engine.
Grant
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6892#206892
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| Subject: | Taxi controls with wind |
I've always relied on the memory shortcut "climb toward the wind=2C dive aw
ay from it." This position of the stick results in the recommended elevato
r/aileron deflections for taxiing with the wind from any quarter.
Lee
Firestar II
st@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kolb-List: Taxi controls with wind
Pat=2C I stay out of anything over 20 MPH=2C and luckily we haven't had tho
se much this year.
We did have one storm on March 2nd that was really impressive. The warning
came in on the NOAA radio just two minutes before 70+ winds hit. The slidin
g glass door bulged inward so much I didn't think it could possibly hold so
I closed the drapes to contain the wreckage. Fortunately it held and the h
edge row upwind of the house deflected the worst of it. Love those Eastern
Red Cedars. My neighbor's hangar didn't fare so well. The wall with the han
gar door flexed inward so far that the door jumped its tracks and the wind
took it and the corner of the building straight away and out into his yard.
And these were winds that weren't even associated with a tornado=2C just a
n energetic frontal passage.
Back to the airplane stuff. There was a fellow in a straight tailed 182 who
failed to position his elevator correctly when making the transition from
upwind to down. Maybe his thinking was that the upward deflected elevator w
ould provide downward lift. In three oscillations he was near to losing con
trol of the aircraft when he decided to change his thinking. The moment he
pushed forward on the controls and the elevator went down the oscillations
stopped. Best illustration of proper control positioning I've ever seen.
Rick
On Tue=2C Sep 30=2C 2008 at 6:21 AM=2C pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wro
te:
Living on a grassstrip in a place where the wind blows very hard sometimes
=2C>>
Hi Rick=2C
thanks for the explanation. Sounds as if you taxy around in winds that woul
d keep me firmly in the hangar.
I can see your logic but I am too old to unlearn something which has worked
all my flying life. I shall stick with `point the stick into wind` and sta
y out of strong winds from the rear.
Cheers
Pat
_________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o |
What you heard about shutting down the engine at higher throttle to get a reading
on the plugs is correct, I would not make a habit of it, but it wont hurt a
small 2 stroke to shut it down like that once in a while to read the plugs.
Make sure the engine has cooled down very well before you put the plugs back in,
aluminum gets soft at high temperatures, and torquing into hot aluminum is
a perfect way to strip the Threads out.
An EGT of 1200 is a bit higher than you want, I would work to bring that down a
bit. Pitching your prop more ( For less RPM ) is very effective at bringing
EGT's down. You could also try a larger size jet... What worked best for me
was to use stock jets and needle settings, and pitch the prop a bit more to put
the EGT's exactly where I wanted them. The engine ran perfect throughout the
range using this method. Moving the needle caused a much to large change
in EGT's on my engine, it went from slightly hot to way to cold. Changing the
main jets worked better, changed EGT's just a littile, but it also caused rough
running at some RPM's.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6896#206896
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o |
Mike,
In general how long would I need to run the engine at say 3/4 throttle to get a
good reading on the plugs? 5 minutes or so?
I have a IVO prop so it is easy to adjust.
Grant
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6901#206901
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o |
At 06:25 AM 9/30/08 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Moving the needle caused a much to large change in EGT's on my engine, it
went from slightly hot to way to cold. Changing the main jets worked
better, changed EGT's just a littile, but it also caused rough running at
some RPM's.
>
Mike,
This is why shims are useful.
See:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly58.html
Fly safe!
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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Wow All
Too much input for me to handle.
I told my feet which pedal to push but they would'nt listen, even at
5mph while
riding the brakes. After I instilled a little fear in them and 6 to 8
hrs later they got it right.
I can now taxi down the runway at 35 mph, tail up and on one wheel. (
just foolin)
I gave myself the practice I new I needed and it worked. I never go out
in any substantial winds.
Jeremy said it right. Kolbs do lift off at lower than stall speeds
especially with
that "Xtra" nose lift from a minor xwind. Seems to me you are flying as
long as you stay in ground effect. You may not learn to fly on from this
list but you shure can learn a lot about Kolb (peculiarities) No
disrespect meant John but after 2 or 3 thousand hrs. nothing would seem
peculiar.
Maybe my logic is a little off but it seems to me a ground loop at 25 or
30 mph is safer
than one at 60 while landing. Can I take off if I hopped a little to
high and had no runway left. You bet. Can I land. Don't know yet.
Haven't tried it solo.
I know everyone means well but at my age being told to be carefull
sounds kinda funny.
If I were any more carefull I'd live to be 160 and nobody wants that.
I like Arty's (I think it's hers) quote " I refuse to tiptoe through
life only to arrive safely at death"
So Bill S. where exactly would you put that instructor in your Kolb? I'm
assuming your doing better glad to hear it. Get right back on the horse
(with instruction ofcourse) and if that doesn't work shoot him in the
head. The horse I mean.
By the way my instructor is 200 mi. away roofing and won't be back till
spring. Soooo I think I'll put the Full Lotus on for some fast snow
taxi. No lets call it very low and very slow flight.
Vic
Platypus driver
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| Subject: | Re: Taxi controls with wind |
Pat, I stay out of anything over 20 MPH,>>
Absolutely,
i wouldn`t be averse to going out and struggle with it if it was trip
which I HAD to make.but I do this for fun and quiet evenings after the
thermals and hopefully, the wind have died away suits me fine.
In theory I would love to be flying to Alaska with JH but in practice
...no..no...no...
Luckily in the uk specifically in "Hereford and Hampshire hurricanes
hardly happen" although we did have one a few years ago presaged by a
memorable met forecast on the BBC. A woman rang the BBC and said that
she had heard on French radio that there was about to be a hurricane.
The broadcaster assured her that this was completely wrong. There would
be no hurricane.
About 4 hours later there was a swath of the south of England with trees
ripped out of the ground, sheds and greenhouses demolished, cars pushed
off the road and a number of casualties
Cheers
Pat
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| Subject: | Re: Platypus Hop |
Vic:
Correct me if I am wrong, please. However, I have never seen an airplane f
ly below stall speed, in or out of ground effect ( or is it affect???). I
try to understand stall speed will be a little less in ground effect than i
t is out of ground effect. I don't want to have any thoughts in my mind th
at I can ever fly less than stall speed. In an emergency, I might believe
that it can. ;-(
Based on the little bit of Xtra flying I have done, I wouldn't depend on "n
ose lift" to much from the Xtra.
What little I know about aerodynamics, you can't ground loop a Kolb at 60.
You'd have a hard time ground looping one at 30. It is hard to hold a Kol
b straight down the runway in a 15 mph direct cross wind. There is an awfu
l lot of resistance, in that big vertical stabilizer and rudder, to push it
against the airstream.
"Hopping" to me, is flying. I consider flying being airborne. When the wh
eels are off the ground, you are airborne.
I believe one can legally log flight time from the time of engine start. I
'd have to go dig in the regs to confirm. I can not remember, for sure....
........
Why flirt with disaster. If I had any idea I was going to get airborne, an
d did not know if I could safely land, I think I would wait on my instructo
r to teach me how. Then, when he turned me loose for solo, probably would
not bust my butt.
I don't know about you. I'm pushing 70 and have to be more careful now tha
n I did 10 or 20 years ago. I heal a lot slower now than I did then.
Kolb peculiarities may be the wrong word. Maybe Kolb characteristics would
be a better discription of differences between different aircraft.
Getting loaded up to head out to Larry and Karen Cottrell's for a few weeks
. From there I plan to wonder around out West for a couple months, until I
get tired of the Gypsie lifestyle, or run out of money and diesel fuel. G
ot the ATV and dirt bike loaded up and ready to go. I plan to be more care
ful out there this year. Last year I busted my butt at Nellis Dunes, my fi
rst attempt at riding dunes on a dirt bike. I did not have "solo" sign off
. ;-) After 11 months, I'm still recuperating from that one. No one told
me sand dunes had nice gentle slopes up one side and drop offs on the othe
r. ;-) I know now.
john h
Kolb Pilot/Builder
Jeremy said it right. Kolbs do lift off at lower than stall speeds especi
ally with
that "Xtra" nose lift from a minor xwind. Seems to me you are flying as l
ong as you stay in ground effect. You may not learn to fly on from this lis
t but you shure can learn a lot about Kolb (peculiarities) No disrespect me
ant John but after 2 or 3 thousand hrs. nothing would seem peculiar.
Maybe my logic is a little off but it seems to me a ground loop at 25 or
30 mph is safer
than one at 60 while landing.
Can I take off if I hopped a little to high and had no runway left. You b
et. Can I land. Don't know yet.
I know everyone means well but at my age being told to be carefull sounds
kinda funny.
Vic
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| Subject: | Re: Platypus Hop |
> Jeremy said it right. Kolbs do lift off at lower than stall speeds
> especially with
> that "Xtra" nose lift from a minor xwind.
*<snip>
Correction, said "planes"(Nothing particular there about Kolbs) can
liftoff lower than "stall" speed...i.e. "Bottom of the Green arc" (as
mentioned later in the post) or in FAA speak "V s" (Big letter V, little
letter s). Try to climb out of Ground effect at lower than Vs and you
will mush right back down..sometimes real hard. By the way, Ground
effect is generally considered approx. 1/2 of wingspan (30' wingspan,
15' off the ground). Now point of the post is don't get anywhere near
stall speed on the ground unless you are trained and capable of taking
off, flying and landing safely...
Jeremy
*
Message 17
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As Bill Sullivan said, 'lets' keep it simple'. Maybe this will be
useful for beginning pilots.
Long ago I was told --
in a HEADWIND put the stick into the wind
with a TAILWIND put the stick away from the wind.
this positions the elevators and aelirons properly, so a gust won't
have a tip-over effect.
Also, an instructor once told me "you never get in trouble pushing
the stick forward; but you can get in a lot of trouble pulling it back"
Oversimplified perhaps but you get the idea.
hope this helps.
do not archive
Message 18
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> Also, an instructor once told me "you never get in trouble pushing
> the stick forward; but you can get in a lot of trouble pulling it back"
> Oversimplified perhaps but you get the idea.
> hope this helps.
Kolbs are nose over sensitive because Homer designed them to have most of
the weight on the main gear. Although it makes for an easy to handle
aircraft on the ground, one pays the penalty in other than better field
conditions. Primary reason for me changing the main gear configuration of
my mkIII.
Keep the stick forward on a standard configured Kolb and it will go up on
its nose.
john h
Kolb Pilot/Builder
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| Subject: | Re: Platypus Hop |
Hi John/All,
Technically correct. If the aircraft is stalled, it can't fly.
That's not to say the bird can't fly with the ASI at '0', though. Your
plane can't read the ASI, so it will fly when it's ready. Have done it
many times. Flew a Cessna 206 with half flaps, half fuel and solo. Took
off, flew around with a ridiculous angle-of-attack. Flight well behind
the power curve. Stall warning vane didn't go off, cause there wasn't
enough airflow. The ASI is a trend instrument anyway, shows you where
you've been. Keep in mind, stall speed will vary with weight, stall
angle-of-attack does not.
This all varies with VG's, of course. ;^)
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Platypus Hop
Vic:
Correct me if I am wrong, please. However, I have never seen an
airplane fly below stall speed, in or out of ground effect ( or is it
affect???). I try to understand stall speed will be a little less in
ground effect than it is out of ground effect.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs are reading too high on 503 1200o |
no one knows how to calibrate the gauge?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6965#206965
Message 21
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FWIW
I should have clarified this
if a tailwind is blowing faster than the plane is moving, the wind
on the elevators and aelirons will exert a down-force, if the stick
is forward; and this should help prevent nose-overs
If it's a headwind the tail will simply lift and I HOPE the pilot
will notice this and make corrections promptly.
do not archive
On Sep 30, 2008, at 5:38 PM, russ kinne wrote:
>
> As Bill Sullivan said, 'lets' keep it simple'. Maybe this will be
> useful for beginning pilots.
> Long ago I was told --
> in a HEADWIND put the stick into the wind
> with a TAILWIND put the stick away from the wind.
> this positions the elevators and aelirons properly, so a gust won't
> have a tip-over effect.
> Also, an instructor once told me "you never get in trouble pushing
> the stick forward; but you can get in a lot of trouble pulling it
> back"
> Oversimplified perhaps but you get the idea.
> hope this helps.
> do not archive
>
>
Message 22
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I have to agree with Russ on this. quartering STRONG tailwinds
should be dealt with the
stick forward and with the wind. Little Kolbs should be indoors.
BB
On 30, Sep 2008, at 7:50 PM, russ kinne wrote:
>
> FWIW
> I should have clarified this
> if a tailwind is blowing faster than the plane is moving, the wind
> on the elevators and aelirons will exert a down-force, if the stick
> is forward; and this should help prevent nose-overs
> If it's a headwind the tail will simply lift and I HOPE the pilot
> will notice this and make corrections promptly.
> do not archive
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2008, at 5:38 PM, russ kinne wrote:
>
>>
>> As Bill Sullivan said, 'lets' keep it simple'. Maybe this will be
>> useful for beginning pilots.
>> Long ago I was told --
>> in a HEADWIND put the stick into the wind
>> with a TAILWIND put the stick away from the wind.
>> this positions the elevators and aelirons properly, so a gust
>> won't have a tip-over effect.
>> Also, an instructor once told me "you never get in trouble pushing
>> the stick forward; but you can get in a lot of trouble pulling it
>> back"
>> Oversimplified perhaps but you get the idea.
>> hope this helps.
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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