Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:24 AM - Re: Airport Attitudes (grantr)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes (herb)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes ()
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes (robert bean)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes ()
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Richard Girard)
7. 08:02 AM - Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (TheWanderingWench)
8. 08:07 AM - Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (Arksey@aol.com)
9. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (TheWanderingWench)
10. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly ()
11. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
12. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch)
13. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Jerry Jones)
14. 11:08 AM - Re: Airport Attitudes (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
15. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch)
16. 12:08 PM - Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Email List PhotoShares)
17. 01:20 PM - Re: Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Jimmy Young)
18. 01:30 PM - Kolb : [ EAA Builder ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Email List PhotoShares)
19. 02:01 PM - steel landing gear and VW (larry duncan)
20. 02:32 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW (robert bean)
21. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (possums)
22. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Jerry Jones)
23. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Richard Girard)
24. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch)
25. 04:55 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
26. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (HShack@aol.com)
27. 06:17 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW ()
28. 06:46 PM - Re: How to adjust the pitch on my IVO prop? (KolbFlyerJim@aol.com)
29. 06:57 PM - Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (Dave Rains)
30. 07:47 PM - Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (JetPilot)
31. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch)
32. 09:21 PM - Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (WillUribe@aol.com)
33. 09:55 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW (Larry Cottrell)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Airport Attitudes |
This is from a local guy:
Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he was conserend
we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his book and did not want
us there. He then went on about the old days how they did this or that that
gave us a bad name.
I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks when I got
my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook County on their cross
country flights. He said "No way" guess I will ride over with the first few dozen
or so. He may not like me but I am going to be there as much as I can and
make him like me (like bugs bunny does)
I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and emphasize safe operations
at their airport to students. I plan to not give the manager a leg to
stand on.
Jim Dees
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523
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Subject: | Re: Airport Attitudes |
My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot
refuse entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb
At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote:
>
>This is from a local guy:
>
>Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he
>was conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his
>book and did not want us there. He then went on about the old days
>how they did this or that that gave us a bad name.
>
>I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks
>when I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook
>County on their cross country flights. He said "No way" guess I will
>ride over with the first few dozen or so. He may not like me but I
>am going to be there as much as I can and make him like me (like
>bugs bunny does)
>
>I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and
>emphasize safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to
>not give the manager a leg to stand on.
>
>Jim Dees
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Airport Attitudes |
If I remember correctly if they receive any government funding they can not
deny you from using the airport.
FAA has a form which can be filed with them if you are denied access to the
airport.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "herb" <herbgh@nctc.com>
Sent: 2008-10-06 08:46
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes
>
> My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot refuse
> entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb
>
> At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>This is from a local guy:
>>
>>Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he was
>>conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his book and
>>did not want us there. He then went on about the old days how they did
>>this or that that gave us a bad name.
>>
>>I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks when
>>I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook County on
>>their cross country flights. He said "No way" guess I will ride over with
>>the first few dozen or so. He may not like me but I am going to be there
>>as much as I can and make him like me (like bugs bunny does)
>>
>>I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and emphasize
>>safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to not give the
>>manager a leg to stand on.
>>
>>Jim Dees
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Airport Attitudes |
ask that manager if he will also turn away sport pilots in J3s,
aeroncas, taylorcraft, etc.....
BB
On 6, Oct 2008, at 9:37 AM, <smlplanet@msn.com> <smlplanet@msn.com>
wrote:
>
> If I remember correctly if they receive any government funding they
> can not deny you from using the airport.
> FAA has a form which can be filed with them if you are denied
> access to the airport.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "herb" <herbgh@nctc.com>
> Sent: 2008-10-06 08:46
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes
>
>>
>> My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot
>> refuse entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb
>>
>> At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote:
>>> <grant_richardson25@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> This is from a local guy:
>>>
>>> Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far
>>> he was conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots
>>> in his book and did not want us there. He then went on about the
>>> old days how they did this or that that gave us a bad name.
>>>
>>> I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few
>>> weeks when I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming
>>> to cook County on their cross country flights. He said "No way"
>>> guess I will ride over with the first few dozen or so. He may not
>>> like me but I am going to be there as much as I can and make him
>>> like me (like bugs bunny does)
>>>
>>> I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and
>>> emphasize safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to
>>> not give the manager a leg to stand on.
>>>
>>> Jim Dees
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Airport Attitudes |
--------------------------------------------------
From: <smlplanet@msn.com>
Sent: 2008-10-06 09:37
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes
>
> If I remember correctly if they receive any government funding they can
> not deny you from using the airport.
> FAA has a form which can be filed with them if you are denied access to
> the airport.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "herb" <herbgh@nctc.com>
> Sent: 2008-10-06 08:46
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes
>
>>
>> My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot refuse
>> entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb
>>
>> At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote:
>>>
>>>This is from a local guy:
>>>
>>>Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he was
>>>conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his book and
>>>did not want us there. He then went on about the old days how they did
>>>this or that that gave us a bad name.
>>>
>>>I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks when
>>>I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook County on
>>>their cross country flights. He said "No way" guess I will ride over with
>>>the first few dozen or so. He may not like me but I am going to be there
>>>as much as I can and make him like me (like bugs bunny does)
>>>
>>>I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and emphasize
>>>safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to not give the
>>>manager a leg to stand on.
>>>
>>>Jim Dees
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not
like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with
a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation
since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely
give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be
up.
Rick
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Lucien,
>
> I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my
> suggestion properly, either!
> I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's
> ONLY reason for selling his
> plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud,
> then an EFIS unit may be
> a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR
> crowd, have NO business being
> in clouds!
>
> You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions.
> I wasn't suggesting we engage
> in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated,
> but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my
> flight interests.
>
> I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to
> condemning their comments.
>
> Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself
> ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit
> can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that??
>
> Mike Welch
> VFR MkIII CX
>
> PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do
> with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed,
> altitude, etc.
> You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory
> iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking
> about..
>
>
> >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
> >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in
> >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
> >>very well at all for IFR flight.
> >>
> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
> >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
> >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun
> flying IFR.
> >>
> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan
> >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb
> >>heat and pitot heat at least.......
> >>
> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
> >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform.
> >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
> >>
> >>LS
> >>
> >>--------
> >>LS
> >>Titan II SS
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie.
>
> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. |
A recent thread talked about airport managers who want to ban ultralights o
r light sport aircraft. Three years ago I flew into Ely,NV airport on my wa
y to the MV fly-in. The airport manager (at the time - I understand he's no
longer there) sent someone out to take pictures of our ultralights, saying
he wanted them for "evidence". (Of what, I'm not sure.) We were also told
not to come back through Ely - rather, to go to Eureka, NV - even though Eu
reka is 50 miles to the west - and we were heading east.
-
When we got home, I wrote to the County Board of Commissioners, which has j
urisdictional authority over the Ely airport. I framed it as an educational
letter - "In case you didn't know, your airport manager might be putting y
our airport's funding at risk by refusing to allow access to ultralights."
I went on to cite the specific regulations related to airport funding and a
ccess for ALL flying vehicles.- I got a phone call from a member of the B
oard and a verbal apology, as well as an invitation to come to Ely whenever
we wanted.
-
Arty Trost
Maxair Drifter
Sandy, OR
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
-
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Subject: | Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. |
You did good Arty, that was a good way to handle it and sounds like it
worked. Jswan
do not archive
Jim swan, firestar, 503, N663S, Mich.
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Rick Girard asked "How exactly does one find themselves in clouds? It's not
like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air.""
-
I always had the same assumption - and was disabused during a September fli
ght on the Oregon coast.- It was a grey day: there was haze and a very hi
gh overcast and at least 5-8 miles visibility- nothing I'd identify as a pr
oblem at the 1000' altitude we were flying at.- As I flew, suddenly the h
aze grew denser and thicker. And when I say "suddenly" I mean SUDDENLY.-
My flying partner and I both dove down (Happily we were over fields) and th
en turned around and flew back to the airstrip we'd just left.- Dave said
that often on grey days, it's hard to discern fog until you are almost in
it. The greyness just seems to thicken around you, and you're "in clouds".
Not white billowing cumulus clouds - just dense pea soup.
-
Arty Trost
Maxair Drifter
Sandy, OR
-
-
-
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
--- On Mon, 10/6/08, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly
Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not
like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) wi
th a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation
since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surel
y give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon
be up.
Rick
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
Lucien,
-I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my sugges
tion properly, either!
I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. -I said IF Mike B. 's
ONLY reason for selling his
plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, the
n an EFIS unit may be
a good choice to see his way out of it. -I even mentioned we, as the VFR
crowd, have NO business being
in clouds!
-You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions.
-I wasn't suggesting we engage
in IFR flight. -In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated,
but I'D NEVER do that. -It's just not my
flight interests.
-I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior
to condemning their comments.
-Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was - " IF " - he found h
imself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit
can be a good way to get out fast!! -Now, what wrong with that??
Mike Welch
VFR MkIII CX
PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do wi
th IFR flight. -I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed
, altitude, etc.
-You're right. -If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factor
y iron (only). -But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talk
ing about..
>>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
>>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in
>>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
>>very well at all for IFR flight.
>>
>>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
>>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
>>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flyin
g IFR.
>>
>>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan
>>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb
>>heat and pitot heat at least.......
>>
>>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
>>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform.
>>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
>>
>>LS
>>
>>--------
>>LS
>>Titan II SS
_________________________________________________________________
Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5
50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
I live and fly in Florida and have no problem with the clouds.
As a rule they are high enough to fly under 2000-3500' which is low and
if doing a XC above them 5000'-6000' for better air or crossing large
swamps (Everglades), fly low there you see some big gator. I try and
get 2-5 hrs per week in the air at least. Mark III C/912
From: Richard Girard
Sent: 2008-10-06 10:37
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly
Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's
not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the
pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the
instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package.
It will almost surely give a false sense of security to some idiot whose
178 seconds will soon be up.
Rick
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Lucien,
I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my
suggestion properly, either!
I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B.
's ONLY reason for selling his
plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a
cloud, then an EFIS unit may be
a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the
VFR crowd, have NO business being
in clouds!
You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR
conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage
in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR
rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my
flight interests.
I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says
prior to condemning their comments.
Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found
himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit
can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that??
Mike Welch
VFR MkIII CX
PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to
do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters",
airspeed, altitude, etc.
You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider
factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I
was talking about..
>>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
>>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in
>>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
>>very well at all for IFR flight.
>>
>>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
>>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
>>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun
flying IFR.
>>
>>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan
>>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb
>>heat and pitot heat at least.......
>>
>>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
>>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform.
>>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
>>
>>LS
>>
>>--------
>>LS
>>Titan II SS
_________________________________________________________________
Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from
Jamie.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns
!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Rick
Flying unexpectedly into clouds isn't as difficult as you make out. A
few years ago trying to get home from Oshkosh I unexpectedly flew into
clouds. I had checked the weather report before departing and knew the
ceilings were low but it looked to me and the weather briefer that I
could get to my next stop 50 miles away. I took off and got within 5
miles of the airport and suddenly and unexpectedly flew into a heavy
cloud bank. I had been flying along with decreasing ceilings with less
than 5 mile visibility from the very start. It is very common in this
part of Michigan's UP. With the limited visibility I couldn't see the
cloud until I was almost in it. I was almost to the airport and flying
app 50 ft above the tree tops when everything disappeared. I
immediately did a 180 out of the cloud using occasional glimpses of the
tree tops as reference. I circled for a bit trying to find a close
airport on my GPS and charts also hoping that the clouds would lift
enough to see the airport. Finally I retraced my flight almost 50 miles
to where I started that morning. Carrying extra fuel is a really good
thing. Two hours later I got to that airport only to wait until late
afternoon to go the next stop.
Over the next few years I found that if I flew out over Lake Michigan
along that shore line it was much more often clear and smooth. The other
neat thing is that they put airports right along the lake shore. Its a
bit like flying VFR on top with airports also on top.
When I saw Mike's photos what he called IFR weather in Florida I thought
wow in Michigan we would never fly if we waited for the weather to get
that good.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly
Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds?
It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon
the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the
instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package.
It will almost surely give a false sense of security to some idiot whose
178 seconds will soon be up.
Rick
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Lucien,
I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my
suggestion properly, either!
I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike
B. 's ONLY reason for selling his
plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a
cloud, then an EFIS unit may be
a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the
VFR crowd, have NO business being
in clouds!
You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR
conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage
in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR
rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my
flight interests.
I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says
prior to condemning their comments.
Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found
himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit
can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that??
Mike Welch
VFR MkIII CX
PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING
to do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters",
airspeed, altitude, etc.
You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider
factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I
was talking about..
>>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
>>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform -
in
>>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
>>very well at all for IFR flight.
>>
>>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
>>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
>>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero
fun flying IFR.
>>
>>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you
plan
>>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with
carb
>>heat and pitot heat at least.......
>>
>>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
>>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR
platform.
>>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
>>
>>LS
>>
>>--------
>>LS
>>Titan II SS
_________________________________________________________________
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Jamie.
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Rick,
(while chuckling) I didn't say "I" had a problem suddenly appearing inside
a cloud. I was only
responding to Mike B's ailment of an excess number of clouds in Florida, and that
he "may" find himself having to fly into one. (??? Would one really have
to do that, especially in a Kolb??)
Of my past flying experiences, though, I can think of two specific times when
something as sophisticated as
an EFIS would have been nice to have had. (Ask John Kennedy if an EFIS would have
been nice onboard).
On one occation a friend and I went flying in my 172. Although there was virtually
100% cloud cover for 100 miles, around our airport it was VFR (10 mile radius).
I have heard stories about morons that were flying above such a scenario,
and the hole "closed up". It didn't happen to me, I'm too much of a chicken.
If it ain't severe clear in my
little flying world, I just don't go!!. If a hole started to close up, I'm going
to be watching it from the ground.
I guess the main thing I was trying to convey was IF, for some inexplicable reason
(...t happens), a person found themselves in IMC briefly, then an EFIS might
not be a bad tool to have onboard.
The only reason I will be installing a few (3) of them is because of their enomous
information in a small colorful screen. Of course, most people on the list
will never find themselves remotely close to ever "needing" one while piloting
a Kolb aircraft, and see no need of their value with regard to IMC.
You asked how one suddenly finds himself in a cloud? How does one run out of
fuel in an airplane? How does one
forget to fasten everything down prior to liftoff? How does one not check the
NOTAMS before a long XC, or WX briefing? I guess the simple truth is there are
enough morons and stupid people (or sometimes just unlucky situations) that
all of a sudden these pilots are forced to do drastic measures.
One time, about 10 years ago, a friend (same one) and I were going to fly to
the Golden State airshow in a friend of his's plane. This Cherokee had just been
annualed. For some unknown reason the mechanic turned off the fuel.
While we were preflighting, we tried to drain the fuel at the engine.....nothing
came out. We checked the shut-off, and found that it was simply turned off.
No problem, we turned on correctly, jumped in, and away we go to the active
runway. He did the run-up, no problems. Everything acted "good to go"!! So
off we went. Got about 150' up about midfield, engine drops to idle...no throttle
response, just idle. Fortunately, there was barely enough runway to set
it back down...barely. 3 more seconds of flight and we would have landed in
the canal that crosses the end of the runway.
It turns out that since he didn't get any fuel out of the fuel strainer near
the engine, he kept poking and prodding it, which cocked it open slightly. Since
the fuel was shut off, we didn't realize it was cocked open. Once the fuel
was turned on, it dribbled out on the ground, but we were in the plane at this
time, and didn't know this was going on. At start-up, the dribbling stopped,
because there was just enough suction to preclude drippage. BUT!!!!! At run-up
for a few seconds, the fuel strainer would begin to empty...but he didn't
do the run-up long enough to cause the engine to sputter.
However, at FULL RPM, the suction was SO high that it started to suck the fuel
moisture bowl dry, which took about 6-8 seconds, or about halfway through the
runway length.
So, said all that to say this; crap happens!!! Through situations unbeknownst
to us, we MAY have been forced to take drastic measures. Who knows?? I we
were 10 minutes away from the airport, maybe our closest airport was 3 miles
through some fog, otherwise it's in the forest somewhere. Can't imagine all
the bad crap that can come our way. 99.9999% of the time, we don't need anything
but an airspeed indicator.
But if, someday, a cloud somehow pops up around me, I'd think an EFIS would be
nice to have. Besides they are
so cool and colorful!!!
Best regards,
Mike Welch
MkIII
________________________________
From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly
Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like
they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with a big
gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you
do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely give a false
sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up.
Rick
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
Lucien,
I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my suggestion properly,
either!
I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's ONLY
reason for selling his
plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, then an
EFIS unit may be
a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR crowd,
have NO business being
in clouds!
You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. I wasn't
suggesting we engage
in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, but I'D
NEVER do that. It's just not my
flight interests.
I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to condemning
their comments.
Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself ACCIDENTLY
in a cloud, an EFIS unit
can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that??
Mike Welch
VFR MkIII CX
PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do with IFR
flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, altitude,
etc.
You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory iron (only).
But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about..
>>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
>>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in
>>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
>>very well at all for IFR flight.
>>
>>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
>>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
>>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flying IFR.
>>
>>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan
>>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb
>>heat and pitot heat at least.......
>>
>>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
>>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform.
>>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
>>
>>LS
>>
>>--------
>>LS
>>Titan II SS
_________________________________________________________________
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_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with
near-IFR like moments, I for one would rather have the instrument,
all else being equal, than not, if I were to actually get caught in
IFR conditions. Truth be told, we have several "idiots" in these
parts who have been caught, more often than not, on long cross-
country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had something
better than just a compass to tell them which way is up. Better to
have it and not need it than need it and not have it, IMHO. That's
my two centavos...now back to enjoying the repartee.
Jerry
Fresno
On Oct 6, 2008, at 7:37 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds?
> It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air
> (pardon the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be
> worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a
> small package. It will almost surely give a false sense of security
> to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch
> <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Lucien,
>
> I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my
> suggestion properly, either!
> I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike
> B. 's ONLY reason for selling his
> plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a
> cloud, then an EFIS unit may be
> a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as
> the VFR crowd, have NO business being
> in clouds!
>
> You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR
> conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage
> in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR
> rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my
> flight interests.
>
> I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says
> prior to condemning their comments.
>
> Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found
> himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit
> can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that??
>
> Mike Welch
> VFR MkIII CX
>
> PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING
> to do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight
> parameters", airspeed, altitude, etc.
> You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider
> factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with
> what I was talking about..
>
>
> >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
> >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in
> >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
> >>very well at all for IFR flight.
> >>
> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
> >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
> >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero
> fun flying IFR.
> >>
> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan
> >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb
> >>heat and pitot heat at least.......
> >>
> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
> >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform.
> >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
> >>
> >>LS
> >>
> >>--------
> >>LS
> >>Titan II SS
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from
> Jamie.
> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-
> Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008
>
>
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|
Subject: | Re: Airport Attitudes |
<< He was pretty much flying right down the runway, about 50' high, then
turned ...>>
pj.ladd wrote: << What an idiot. Flying in the immediate vicinity of an
airfield circuit is stupid enough but to fly down the runway...... Does
this guy think he is the only person in the air? Pat >>
Pat -
You may not be accustomed to some of the flying habits that are allowed
in the US, so I can understand your alarm.
What the powered parachute guy did was, essentially, a low approach over
the runway. We do that all the time - nothing unsafe or illegal about
it. He did had a radio, and announced on UNICOM his intentions. Many
pilots seek out the less busy airfields (like where my Kolb is parked)
to practice landings, touch and go's, and/or low approaches. The sparse
traffic at these country airports make for ideal practice in the
circuit.
Especially because often, you ARE the only one in the air, as it was the
this case. I truly believe he would have done this if there had been
other traffic in the pattern, knowing that the disparity of speeds
between his 'chute and all the other "regular" aircraft might cause a
problem. He was the only aircraft still in the pattern, after I had
landed.
Aren't pilots allowed to stay in the pattern and do touch and go's at
small airports in the UK?
Dennis K.
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|
Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Thanks Jerry. That's all I was saying. Better to have it than not.
Truth is, as this same friend and I were leaving the Watsonville Fly-In ~1998,
the entire sky was
cloud cover(typical bay area high fog)....about 800 AGL. Even though this was
not technically legal for all the VFR rated pilots to take off and head home,
many hundreds of us did. Thank God for my Garmin 95XL (I wouldn't have departed
if I didn't have it). We simply followed the highway looking straight down,
about 200' beneath of clouds. There are hills about 10 miles to the east of
Watsonville that you have to fly through the pass. We were hoping it was not
going to close us in. Fortunately, the hills were easy to get past, and opened
up to the clear San Juaquin Valley.
Between the GPS, and an EFIS if I had one, I think even a moron like myself could
have gotten out of Watsonville okay. I know at one time or another if all
of us fly, we will be put in a situation that wasn't what we planned for. A new
tool may augment our escape from stupidity or a bad situation.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
________________________________
From: maderah2@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly
...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with near-IFR like
moments, I for one would rather have the instrument, all else being equal, than
not, if I were to actually get caught in IFR conditions. Truth be told, we
have several "idiots" in these parts who have been caught, more often than not,
on long cross-country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had something
better than just a compass to tell them which way is up. Better to have it
and not need it than need it and not have it, IMHO. That's my two centavos...now
back to enjoying the repartee.
Jerry
Fresno
On Oct 6, 2008, at 7:37 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like
they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with a big
gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you
do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely give a false
sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up.
Rick
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
Lucien,
I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my suggestion properly,
either!
I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's ONLY
reason for selling his
plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, then an
EFIS unit may be
a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR crowd,
have NO business being
in clouds!
You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. I wasn't
suggesting we engage
in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, but I'D
NEVER do that. It's just not my
flight interests.
I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to condemning
their comments.
Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself ACCIDENTLY
in a cloud, an EFIS unit
can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that??
Mike Welch
VFR MkIII CX
PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do with IFR
flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, altitude,
etc.
You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory iron (only).
But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about..
>>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
>>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in
>>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
>>very well at all for IFR flight.
>>
>>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
>>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
>>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flying IFR.
>>
>>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan
>>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb
>>heat and pitot heat at least.......
>>
>>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
>>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform.
>>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
>>
>>LS
>>
>>--------
>>LS
>>Titan II SS
_________________________________________________________________
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Subject: | Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! |
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming
Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered
why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter
and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt)
A new Email List PhotoShare is available:
Poster: Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net>
Lists: Kolb-List
Subject: 6 gal. tank installation, Firestar II
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jdy100@comcast.net.10.06.2008
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main PhotoShare Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a PhotoShare
If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! |
Wow, I posted that back around February or so. The photo credit goes
to Dan G. in Arizona. He sent some pics to me to show how he rigged
his 2 six gallon tanks in his FS, and I had tried to share them with
the Kolb list.
Jimmy Young
FS II, Houston TX
Message 18
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Subject: | Kolb : [ EAA Builder ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! |
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming
Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered
why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter
and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt)
A new Email List PhotoShare is available:
Poster: EAA Builder <Eaabuilder@aol.com>
Lists: Kolb-List,Ultralight-List,Pietenpol-List
Subject: Supercat Ultralight Aircraft
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Eaabuilder@aol.com.10.06.2008
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main PhotoShare Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a PhotoShare
If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: | steel landing gear and VW |
I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the steel
landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't know if I
can justify the price. I would also like updates on the vw
conversions and how they are working out.
larry duncan
lariardo@centurytel.net
97 mkIII
582
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Subject: | Re: steel landing gear and VW |
Larry, the steel legs would be good if you want a little more cabin
elevation. Otherwise the aluminum ones are just as good
They will absorb a lot of force before bending and will limit main
structural damage.
I have a couple slightly bent (not my doing) aluminum legs that I may
someday install with the bend aiming down for some extra clearance.
BB
On 6, Oct 2008, at 5:00 PM, larry duncan wrote:
> <lariardo@centurytel.net>
>
> I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the
> steel landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't
> know if I can justify the price. I would also like updates on the
> vw conversions and how they are working out.
>
> larry duncan
> lariardo@centurytel.net
> 97 mkIII
> 582
>
>
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Nice if you need it.
At 01:43 PM 10/6/2008, you wrote:
>...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with
>near-IFR like moments, I for one would rather have the instrument,
>all else being equal, than not, if I were to actually get caught in
>IFR conditions. Truth be told, we have several "idiots" in these
>parts who have been caught, more often than not, on long
>cross-country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had
>something better than just a compass to tell them which way is
>up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it,
>IMHO. That's my two centavos...now back to enjoying the repartee.
>
>Jerry
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Curse you Possums!!! Why'd u do that? Now I got sumthn else I gotta
hav.
Jerry
On Oct 6, 2008, at 2:59 PM, possums wrote:
>
> Nice if you need it.
>
>
> At 01:43 PM 10/6/2008, you wrote:
>> ...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with
>> near-IFR like moments, I for one would rather have the instrument,
>> all else being equal, than not, if I were to actually get caught
>> in IFR conditions. Truth be told, we have several "idiots" in
>> these parts who have been caught, more often than not, on long
>> cross-country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had
>> something better than just a compass to tell them which way is
>> up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have
>> it, IMHO. That's my two centavos...now back to enjoying the
>> repartee.
>>
>> Jerry<Panel.jpg>
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Arty, MIke, all, I've been suckered by a briefer's probably rating of the
day's weather. I only use them occasionally now and one of several inputs to
my fly/no fly decision on the weather. If the briefer says probably, take it
as probably not.Arty, I spent too many days sitting on take off at Oceanside
to ever forget that when the dew point and temperature coincide the flying
is over for the day. That was what you experienced from the air, I think I
liked it better from the ground. Besides the Deli sold great sandwiches and
the beer was cold.
I took a good look at JFK Jr's accident. From what I make of it he had a bad
case of intermediate syndrome with a touch of getthereitis in an area that
was known for that weather phenomenon.
So on the weather issue I stand with the clouds, fog, haze, thunderstorms do
not spring out of hiding group. The information is there for you evaluate
before you fly.
Let's get on with the real issue. If you had an EFIS would you be proficient
and disciplined enough to use it, or would it just make those last 178
seconds even more mystifying.
They're great, but taking the time to evaluate as many of the weather
services available to you to get as clear a picture of the weather as you
can before flying is a whole lot more reliable ounce of prevention than an
EFIS pound of cure. It's also a ton cheaper.
Rick
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:07 AM, TheWanderingWench <
thewanderingwench@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Rick Girard asked "How exactly does one find themselves in clouds? It's not
> like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air.""
>
> I always had the same assumption - and was disabused during a September
> flight on the Oregon coast. It was a grey day: there was haze and a very
> high overcast and at least 5-8 miles visibility- nothing I'd identify as a
> problem at the 1000' altitude we were flying at. As I flew, suddenly the
> haze grew denser and thicker. And when I say "suddenly" I mean SUDDENLY. My
> flying partner and I both dove down (Happily we were over fields) and then
> turned around and flew back to the airstrip we'd just left. Dave said that
> often on grey days, it's hard to discern fog until you are almost in it. The
> greyness just seems to thicken around you, and you're "in clouds". Not white
> billowing cumulus clouds - just dense pea soup.
>
> Arty Trost
> Maxair Drifter
> Sandy, OR
>
>
> www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com
>
> "Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
> Helen Keller
>
> "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
>
> --- On *Mon, 10/6/08, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 7:37 AM
>
> Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's
> not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun)
> with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation
> since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely
> give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be
> up.
> Rick
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Lucien,
>>
>> I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my
>> suggestion properly, either!
>> I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's
>> ONLY reason for selling his
>> plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud,
>> then an EFIS unit may be
>> a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR
>> crowd, have NO business being
>> in clouds!
>>
>> You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions.
>> I wasn't suggesting we engage
>> in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated,
>> but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my
>> flight interests.
>>
>> I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior
>> to condemning their comments.
>>
>> Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found
>> himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit
>> can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that??
>>
>> Mike Welch
>> VFR MkIII CX
>>
>> PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do
>> with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed,
>> altitude, etc.
>> You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory
>> iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking
>> about..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but....
>> >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in
>> >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work
>> >>very well at all for IFR flight.
>> >>
>> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual
>> >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even
>> >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun
>> flying IFR.
>> >>
>> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan
>> >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb
>> >>heat and pitot heat at least.......
>> >>
>> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good
>> >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform.
>> >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices....
>> >>
>> >>LS
>> >>
>> >>--------
>> >>LS
>> >>Titan II SS
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie.
>>
>> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> **
>
> *
>
>
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Rick,
If I had an EFIS, and I do (to be installed), I would practice ALL the cautions
you suggest.
I will do my darndest to avoid the IMC mentioned. I have NEVER been interested
in flying
anywhere I can't see on the horizon (or beyond the horizon, in the case of a long
XC).
I do not advocate an EFIS as a lawful excuse to go looking inside of clouds.
My philosophy
is "severe clear", or I'm not going. (I've highened my standards through the years).
I whole-hardedly agree with yours' and Lucien's position regarding a EFIS's IFR
use. My
interest in an EFIS is only for all the bells and whistles, and nothing to do with
IFR escapage.
But, it is an undeniable fact that IF a person had a brain fade, and somehow
got caught in some
Cumula granite, an EFIS MAY possibly save you. I didn't say it would...just may.
The photo of
Stanley's (Possum's) panel looks just like it does, inside a cloud or not.
Thanks for the lively discussion.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
PS. As a general rule, I usually agree with you and Lucien. At the very least,
I respect that your
opinion's vary from mine and a few others.
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your
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Subject: | Re: steel landing gear and VW |
Larry
I have the old style steel gear legs. I purchased them used at a bit of
savings. These old gear legs are the solid spring steel legs that old Kolb
sold. They are very springy. They do a real good job of absorbing bumps on
rough runways. They don't raise the plane as much as the newer legs. They
are a bit heaver and you have to land carefully or they will launch you back
into the air on landing.
I also have a VW on my Kolb MKIIIC. I now have 265 hours on the plane with
all VW versions. I think about 65 hours with the latest redrive. I'm very
happy. The engine/redrive runs very smooth and just doesn't give me any
trouble. The series 3 redrive that I have now requires alot of work to align
properly but once aligned only needs occasional belt retensioning. Newer
models of the redrive are being lighted and lowered as Valley continues to
refine the redrive. As I have said many times before the VW engine with this
redrive has turned out to be a almost identical replacement for the Rotax
912 (80 HP) with a major cost savings. Reliability Is still yet to be proven
but at the very least will be much better than the 2 stroke options.
Cooling on the ground is still a concern so you have to watch you CHT temps.
For my flying it isn't a issue but if I were flying at a airport were I had
to wait in a long line for takeoff it could be. It appears that at taxi
speeds it will stay cool but sitting at stop it will over heat. It will be
interesting to hear from the guys that are putting the Nikasil cylinders on
their VWs. I'm told they transfer heat 4 time better so this might resolve
this issue. They are 10lbs. lighter and bigger for more power so they are
worth extra cost anyway.
If you haven't read the article I wrote I ask that you do. If you want I can
sent you the text off list.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "larry duncan" <lariardo@centurytel.net>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW
>
> I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the steel
> landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't know if I can
> justify the price. I would also like updates on the vw conversions and
> how they are working out.
>
> larry duncan
> lariardo@centurytel.net
> 97 mkIII
> 582
>
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
If I had the money I'd get one just because they look so kool!
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
do not archive
In a message dated 10/6/2008 7:02:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aslsa.rng@gmail.com
writes:
They're great, but taking the time to evaluate as many of the weather services
available to you to get as clear a picture of the weather as you can before
flying is a whole lot more reliable ounce of prevention than an EFIS pound of
cure. It's also a ton cheaper.
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII"></HEAD>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"
bottomMargin=7 leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7><FONT id=role_document
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>If I had the money I'd get one just because they look so kool!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Howard
Shackleford<BR>FS II<BR>SC
<DIV>do not archive</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 10/6/2008 7:02:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px
solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>
<DIV>They're great, but taking the time to evaluate as many of the weather
services available to you to get as clear a picture of the weather as you can
before flying is a whole lot more reliable ounce of prevention than an EFIS
pound of cure. It's also a ton
cheaper.</DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV CLASS="aol_ad_footer" ID="1217f9ddc6154d32b8a594616bc350ee"><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">New <B>MapQuest Local</B> shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. <A title="http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001" href="http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001" target="_blank">Try it out</A>!</FONT></DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
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Subject: | Re: steel landing gear and VW |
I have the steel legs and wouldn't want to go back to the aluminum legs. I
like the plane sets higher and wheels are several inchs farther forward. I
do off field lands in the back country which can be a little rough and have
not had a problems with them. I do have a set of spare aluminum just in
case I should need them as a back up until the others can be repaired or
replaced.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "larry duncan" <lariardo@centurytel.net>
Sent: 2008-10-06 17:00
Subject: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW
>
> I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the steel
> landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't know if I can
> justify the price. I would also like updates on the vw conversions and
> how they are working out.
>
> larry duncan
> lariardo@centurytel.net
> 97 mkIII
> 582
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: How to adjust the pitch on my IVO prop? |
Hi Grant.
Jim Here.
facing the prop turning the adjuster to the left increases the pitch, If I
remember correctly the jam nut is 1 5/16 or 1 1/2 it's been a while since I
have adjusted mine.
JIm VanGarsse Sr
UltraStar 503 DCSI.
N2613M
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
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Subject: | Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. |
Good for you Arty! That is the mature way to handle a situation like this. However
it just doesn't have the same satisfaction as punching his lights out. [Rolling
Eyes]
Will and I ran into a similar thing near home. At Alamogordo NM, there is but
one FBO. When we needed fuel for the FireStars, he said "it's not worth my time".
Later I dropped in flying my Cessna and he asked if I needed fuel, I of
course replied, "your not worth my time".
Hope to see the gang at Monument Valley next spring.
Dave Rains
--------
Dave Rains
N8086T
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7701#207701
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Mike,
You will love flying with the EFIS.. Even if you don't need the horizon you will
really like having all the flight information presented to you on one screen.
As far as accidentally getting into clouds, it happens, even to some very good
and experienced pilots, it happens. At the speed our Kolbs fly, here in Florida
its possible to fly through a pretty clear area, and turn around and find it
closed in within 10 minutes. Its funny that you mention this now... Just
last week my friend had to divert in his skyboy and land 70 miles away, because
of thunderstorms and rain. He was lucky nothing built in behind him as he
had to return and backtrack about 30 miles to an airport. If you cant go forward,
and a LOT can happen behind you in 30 minutes when thunderstorms are building.
You read of many crashes where people accidentally get into clouds. You hear of
many more cases where people scare the schit out of themselves but are saved
by being able do a 180 on instruments. For every crash, there are many close
calls... That is why most airplanes capable of going any distance cross country
almost universally have Artificial Horizons in them... Even if planes are
built and certified for VFR only, they universally come from the factory with
artificial horizons. It gives you a chance to fly the plane and live instead
of just getting into a graveyard spiral, crashing and killing everyone on board.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7711#207711
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Subject: | Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly |
Yup!! And like Howard said, they look so kool, too!!
Mike Welch
> Mike,
That is why most airplanes capable of going any distance cross country almost
universally have Artificial Horizons in them... Even if planes are built and certified
for VFR only, they universally come from the factory with artificial
horizons. It gives you a chance to fly the plane and live instead of just getting
into a graveyard spiral, crashing and killing everyone on board.
>
> Mike
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Subject: | Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. |
Greetings,
Speaking of Alamogordo I started my rotorcraft training last week in this
R22. _http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=757447603898244807&hl=en_
(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=757447603898244807&hl=en)
Dave finally hovered his Mosquito helicopter last week.
Regards,
Will Uribe
FireStar II N4GU
El Paso, TX
_Will's web page_ (http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Rains
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:57 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs.
Good for you Arty! That is the mature way to handle a situation like this.
However it just doesn't have the same satisfaction as punching his lights
out. [Rolling Eyes]
Will and I ran into a similar thing near home. At Alamogordo NM, there is
but one FBO. When we needed fuel for the FireStars, he said "it's not worth
my time". Later I dropped in flying my Cessna and he asked if I needed
fuel, I of course replied, "your not worth my time".
Hope to see the gang at Monument Valley next spring.
Dave Rains
--------
Dave Rains
N8086T
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
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Subject: | Re: steel landing gear and VW |
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW
Larry, the steel legs would be good if you want a little more cabin
elevation. Otherwise the aluminum ones are just as good
They will absorb a lot of force before bending and will limit main
structural damage.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
I have to disagree with your statement about limiting damage with the
aluminum legs. My personal experience has been just the opposite. My
first problem was with the old style Firestar leg (much smaller) a hard
landing bent the leg outward causing the tire to drag me in a left turn
which resulted in spanning a ditch with the cage, but the gear legs hit
the other bank. I had to strip the entire cage and have the cage
straightened. The next was a off field landing in a camouflaged boulder
field which broke a gear leg just above the axle leaving a forward
pointing gear leg that flipped me upside down. Not much damage to the
cage, but I had to recover the whole airplane. The last was a broken
axle housing ? that again left me with a forward facing gear leg that
dug into the ground all the way up to the bottom of the cage. This one
caused the gear leg sockets to be bent back towards the tail, which
again required the repair of tubes and a recover job. All of which could
have been prevented by some good steel gear legs. If the gear legs
pointed backwards then I could agree that damage would be limited by the
softer gear legs, but the way they are pointed the slightest failure of
the gear legs will probably result in a lot of damage. In summary it is
going to take a hell of a hard bounce to equal the damage caused by a
broken alum leg. I finally decided to beef up my landing gear in every
way that I could because I now believe that will save me some work and
headaches. Yes my Firestar sits a little higher, but it makes it look a
whole lot better in my opinion. I don't find it to be uncomfortable high
however.
Just my opinion, yours may differ,
Larry C, Oregon
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