---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/06/08: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:24 AM - Re: Airport Attitudes (grantr) 2. 05:46 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes (herb) 3. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes () 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes (robert bean) 5. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Airport Attitudes () 6. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Richard Girard) 7. 08:02 AM - Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (TheWanderingWench) 8. 08:07 AM - Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (Arksey@aol.com) 9. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (TheWanderingWench) 10. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly () 11. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 12. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch) 13. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Jerry Jones) 14. 11:08 AM - Re: Airport Attitudes (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 15. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch) 16. 12:08 PM - Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Email List PhotoShares) 17. 01:20 PM - Re: Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Jimmy Young) 18. 01:30 PM - Kolb : [ EAA Builder ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Email List PhotoShares) 19. 02:01 PM - steel landing gear and VW (larry duncan) 20. 02:32 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW (robert bean) 21. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (possums) 22. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Jerry Jones) 23. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Richard Girard) 24. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch) 25. 04:55 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 26. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (HShack@aol.com) 27. 06:17 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW () 28. 06:46 PM - Re: How to adjust the pitch on my IVO prop? (KolbFlyerJim@aol.com) 29. 06:57 PM - Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (Dave Rains) 30. 07:47 PM - Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (JetPilot) 31. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly (Mike Welch) 32. 09:21 PM - Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. (WillUribe@aol.com) 33. 09:55 PM - Re: steel landing gear and VW (Larry Cottrell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes From: "grantr" This is from a local guy: Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he was conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his book and did not want us there. He then went on about the old days how they did this or that that gave us a bad name. I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks when I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook County on their cross country flights. He said "No way" guess I will ride over with the first few dozen or so. He may not like me but I am going to be there as much as I can and make him like me (like bugs bunny does) I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and emphasize safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to not give the manager a leg to stand on. Jim Dees Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:39 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot refuse entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote: > >This is from a local guy: > >Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he >was conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his >book and did not want us there. He then went on about the old days >how they did this or that that gave us a bad name. > >I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks >when I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook >County on their cross country flights. He said "No way" guess I will >ride over with the first few dozen or so. He may not like me but I >am going to be there as much as I can and make him like me (like >bugs bunny does) > >I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and >emphasize safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to >not give the manager a leg to stand on. > >Jim Dees > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:14 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes If I remember correctly if they receive any government funding they can not deny you from using the airport. FAA has a form which can be filed with them if you are denied access to the airport. -------------------------------------------------- From: "herb" Sent: 2008-10-06 08:46 Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes > > My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot refuse > entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb > > At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote: >> >>This is from a local guy: >> >>Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he was >>conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his book and >>did not want us there. He then went on about the old days how they did >>this or that that gave us a bad name. >> >>I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks when >>I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook County on >>their cross country flights. He said "No way" guess I will ride over with >>the first few dozen or so. He may not like me but I am going to be there >>as much as I can and make him like me (like bugs bunny does) >> >>I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and emphasize >>safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to not give the >>manager a leg to stand on. >> >>Jim Dees >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:59 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes ask that manager if he will also turn away sport pilots in J3s, aeroncas, taylorcraft, etc..... BB On 6, Oct 2008, at 9:37 AM, wrote: > > If I remember correctly if they receive any government funding they > can not deny you from using the airport. > FAA has a form which can be filed with them if you are denied > access to the airport. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "herb" > Sent: 2008-10-06 08:46 > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes > >> >> My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot >> refuse entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb >> >> At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> This is from a local guy: >>> >>> Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far >>> he was conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots >>> in his book and did not want us there. He then went on about the >>> old days how they did this or that that gave us a bad name. >>> >>> I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few >>> weeks when I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming >>> to cook County on their cross country flights. He said "No way" >>> guess I will ride over with the first few dozen or so. He may not >>> like me but I am going to be there as much as I can and make him >>> like me (like bugs bunny does) >>> >>> I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and >>> emphasize safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to >>> not give the manager a leg to stand on. >>> >>> Jim Dees >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: 2008-10-06 09:37 Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes > > If I remember correctly if they receive any government funding they can > not deny you from using the airport. > FAA has a form which can be filed with them if you are denied access to > the airport. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "herb" > Sent: 2008-10-06 08:46 > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes > >> >> My understanding is that if he receives public funds...he cannot refuse >> entry or service to any airplane above an Ultra Light...Herb >> >> At 07:23 AM 10/6/2008, you wrote: >>> >>>This is from a local guy: >>> >>>Flew into Cook County air port and was told by the manager as far he was >>>conserend we sport pilot folk were just ultralight pilots in his book and >>>did not want us there. He then went on about the old days how they did >>>this or that that gave us a bad name. >>> >>>I was very polite bit my toung real hard and told him in a few weeks when >>>I got my SPORT PILOT CFI my students would be comming to cook County on >>>their cross country flights. He said "No way" guess I will ride over with >>>the first few dozen or so. He may not like me but I am going to be there >>>as much as I can and make him like me (like bugs bunny does) >>> >>>I plan to leave a great impression with the local pilots and emphasize >>>safe operations at their airport to students. I plan to not give the >>>manager a leg to stand on. >>> >>>Jim Dees >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Read this topic online here: >>> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7523#207523 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:54 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up. Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote: > Lucien, > > I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my > suggestion properly, either! > I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's > ONLY reason for selling his > plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, > then an EFIS unit may be > a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR > crowd, have NO business being > in clouds! > > You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. > I wasn't suggesting we engage > in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, > but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my > flight interests. > > I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to > condemning their comments. > > Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself > ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit > can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that?? > > Mike Welch > VFR MkIII CX > > PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do > with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, > altitude, etc. > You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory > iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking > about.. > > > >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... > >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in > >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work > >>very well at all for IFR flight. > >> > >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual > >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even > >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun > flying IFR. > >> > >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan > >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb > >>heat and pitot heat at least....... > >> > >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good > >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. > >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... > >> > >>LS > >> > >>-------- > >>LS > >>Titan II SS > > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. > > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:35 AM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Kolb-List: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. A recent thread talked about airport managers who want to ban ultralights o r light sport aircraft. Three years ago I flew into Ely,NV airport on my wa y to the MV fly-in. The airport manager (at the time - I understand he's no longer there) sent someone out to take pictures of our ultralights, saying he wanted them for "evidence". (Of what, I'm not sure.) We were also told not to come back through Ely - rather, to go to Eureka, NV - even though Eu reka is 50 miles to the west - and we were heading east. - When we got home, I wrote to the County Board of Commissioners, which has j urisdictional authority over the Ely airport. I framed it as an educational letter - "In case you didn't know, your airport manager might be putting y our airport's funding at risk by refusing to allow access to ultralights." I went on to cite the specific regulations related to airport funding and a ccess for ALL flying vehicles.- I got a phone call from a member of the B oard and a verbal apology, as well as an invitation to come to Ely whenever we wanted. - Arty Trost Maxair Drifter Sandy, OR www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." - ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:17 AM PST US From: Arksey@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. You did good Arty, that was a good way to handle it and sounds like it worked. Jswan do not archive Jim swan, firestar, 503, N663S, Mich. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:26 AM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Rick Girard asked "How exactly does one find themselves in clouds? It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air."" - I always had the same assumption - and was disabused during a September fli ght on the Oregon coast.- It was a grey day: there was haze and a very hi gh overcast and at least 5-8 miles visibility- nothing I'd identify as a pr oblem at the 1000' altitude we were flying at.- As I flew, suddenly the h aze grew denser and thicker. And when I say "suddenly" I mean SUDDENLY.- My flying partner and I both dove down (Happily we were over fields) and th en turned around and flew back to the airstrip we'd just left.- Dave said that often on grey days, it's hard to discern fog until you are almost in it. The greyness just seems to thicken around you, and you're "in clouds". Not white billowing cumulus clouds - just dense pea soup. - Arty Trost Maxair Drifter Sandy, OR - - - www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Richard Girard wrote: From: Richard Girard Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) wi th a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surel y give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up. Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote: Lucien, -I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my sugges tion properly, either! I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. -I said IF Mike B. 's ONLY reason for selling his plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, the n an EFIS unit may be a good choice to see his way out of it. -I even mentioned we, as the VFR crowd, have NO business being in clouds! -You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. -I wasn't suggesting we engage in IFR flight. -In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, but I'D NEVER do that. -It's just not my flight interests. -I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to condemning their comments. -Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was - " IF " - he found h imself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit can be a good way to get out fast!! -Now, what wrong with that?? Mike Welch VFR MkIII CX PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do wi th IFR flight. -I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed , altitude, etc. -You're right. -If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factor y iron (only). -But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talk ing about.. >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work >>very well at all for IFR flight. >> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flyin g IFR. >> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb >>heat and pitot heat at least....... >> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... >> >>LS >> >>-------- >>LS >>Titan II SS _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:06 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly I live and fly in Florida and have no problem with the clouds. As a rule they are high enough to fly under 2000-3500' which is low and if doing a XC above them 5000'-6000' for better air or crossing large swamps (Everglades), fly low there you see some big gator. I try and get 2-5 hrs per week in the air at least. Mark III C/912 From: Richard Girard Sent: 2008-10-06 10:37 Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up. Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote: Lucien, I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my suggestion properly, either! I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's ONLY reason for selling his plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, then an EFIS unit may be a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR crowd, have NO business being in clouds! You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my flight interests. I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to condemning their comments. Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that?? Mike Welch VFR MkIII CX PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, altitude, etc. You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.. >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work >>very well at all for IFR flight. >> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flying IFR. >> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb >>heat and pitot heat at least....... >> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... >> >>LS >> >>-------- >>LS >>Titan II SS _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns !550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:16 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Rick Flying unexpectedly into clouds isn't as difficult as you make out. A few years ago trying to get home from Oshkosh I unexpectedly flew into clouds. I had checked the weather report before departing and knew the ceilings were low but it looked to me and the weather briefer that I could get to my next stop 50 miles away. I took off and got within 5 miles of the airport and suddenly and unexpectedly flew into a heavy cloud bank. I had been flying along with decreasing ceilings with less than 5 mile visibility from the very start. It is very common in this part of Michigan's UP. With the limited visibility I couldn't see the cloud until I was almost in it. I was almost to the airport and flying app 50 ft above the tree tops when everything disappeared. I immediately did a 180 out of the cloud using occasional glimpses of the tree tops as reference. I circled for a bit trying to find a close airport on my GPS and charts also hoping that the clouds would lift enough to see the airport. Finally I retraced my flight almost 50 miles to where I started that morning. Carrying extra fuel is a really good thing. Two hours later I got to that airport only to wait until late afternoon to go the next stop. Over the next few years I found that if I flew out over Lake Michigan along that shore line it was much more often clear and smooth. The other neat thing is that they put airports right along the lake shore. Its a bit like flying VFR on top with airports also on top. When I saw Mike's photos what he called IFR weather in Florida I thought wow in Michigan we would never fly if we waited for the weather to get that good. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up. Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote: Lucien, I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my suggestion properly, either! I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's ONLY reason for selling his plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, then an EFIS unit may be a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR crowd, have NO business being in clouds! You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my flight interests. I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to condemning their comments. Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that?? Mike Welch VFR MkIII CX PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, altitude, etc. You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.. >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work >>very well at all for IFR flight. >> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flying IFR. >> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb >>heat and pitot heat at least....... >> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... >> >>LS >> >>-------- >>LS >>Titan II SS _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns !550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:40 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Rick, (while chuckling) I didn't say "I" had a problem suddenly appearing inside a cloud. I was only responding to Mike B's ailment of an excess number of clouds in Florida, and that he "may" find himself having to fly into one. (??? Would one really have to do that, especially in a Kolb??) Of my past flying experiences, though, I can think of two specific times when something as sophisticated as an EFIS would have been nice to have had. (Ask John Kennedy if an EFIS would have been nice onboard). On one occation a friend and I went flying in my 172. Although there was virtually 100% cloud cover for 100 miles, around our airport it was VFR (10 mile radius). I have heard stories about morons that were flying above such a scenario, and the hole "closed up". It didn't happen to me, I'm too much of a chicken. If it ain't severe clear in my little flying world, I just don't go!!. If a hole started to close up, I'm going to be watching it from the ground. I guess the main thing I was trying to convey was IF, for some inexplicable reason (...t happens), a person found themselves in IMC briefly, then an EFIS might not be a bad tool to have onboard. The only reason I will be installing a few (3) of them is because of their enomous information in a small colorful screen. Of course, most people on the list will never find themselves remotely close to ever "needing" one while piloting a Kolb aircraft, and see no need of their value with regard to IMC. You asked how one suddenly finds himself in a cloud? How does one run out of fuel in an airplane? How does one forget to fasten everything down prior to liftoff? How does one not check the NOTAMS before a long XC, or WX briefing? I guess the simple truth is there are enough morons and stupid people (or sometimes just unlucky situations) that all of a sudden these pilots are forced to do drastic measures. One time, about 10 years ago, a friend (same one) and I were going to fly to the Golden State airshow in a friend of his's plane. This Cherokee had just been annualed. For some unknown reason the mechanic turned off the fuel. While we were preflighting, we tried to drain the fuel at the engine.....nothing came out. We checked the shut-off, and found that it was simply turned off. No problem, we turned on correctly, jumped in, and away we go to the active runway. He did the run-up, no problems. Everything acted "good to go"!! So off we went. Got about 150' up about midfield, engine drops to idle...no throttle response, just idle. Fortunately, there was barely enough runway to set it back down...barely. 3 more seconds of flight and we would have landed in the canal that crosses the end of the runway. It turns out that since he didn't get any fuel out of the fuel strainer near the engine, he kept poking and prodding it, which cocked it open slightly. Since the fuel was shut off, we didn't realize it was cocked open. Once the fuel was turned on, it dribbled out on the ground, but we were in the plane at this time, and didn't know this was going on. At start-up, the dribbling stopped, because there was just enough suction to preclude drippage. BUT!!!!! At run-up for a few seconds, the fuel strainer would begin to empty...but he didn't do the run-up long enough to cause the engine to sputter. However, at FULL RPM, the suction was SO high that it started to suck the fuel moisture bowl dry, which took about 6-8 seconds, or about halfway through the runway length. So, said all that to say this; crap happens!!! Through situations unbeknownst to us, we MAY have been forced to take drastic measures. Who knows?? I we were 10 minutes away from the airport, maybe our closest airport was 3 miles through some fog, otherwise it's in the forest somewhere. Can't imagine all the bad crap that can come our way. 99.9999% of the time, we don't need anything but an airspeed indicator. But if, someday, a cloud somehow pops up around me, I'd think an EFIS would be nice to have. Besides they are so cool and colorful!!! Best regards, Mike Welch MkIII ________________________________ From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up. Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote: Lucien, I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my suggestion properly, either! I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's ONLY reason for selling his plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, then an EFIS unit may be a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR crowd, have NO business being in clouds! You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my flight interests. I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to condemning their comments. Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that?? Mike Welch VFR MkIII CX PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, altitude, etc. You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.. >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work >>very well at all for IFR flight. >> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flying IFR. >> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb >>heat and pitot heat at least....... >> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... >> >>LS >> >>-------- >>LS >>Titan II SS _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:58 AM PST US From: Jerry Jones Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly ...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with near-IFR like moments, I for one would rather have the instrument, all else being equal, than not, if I were to actually get caught in IFR conditions. Truth be told, we have several "idiots" in these parts who have been caught, more often than not, on long cross- country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had something better than just a compass to tell them which way is up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, IMHO. That's my two centavos...now back to enjoying the repartee. Jerry Fresno On Oct 6, 2008, at 7:37 AM, Richard Girard wrote: > Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? > It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air > (pardon the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be > worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a > small package. It will almost surely give a false sense of security > to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up. > > Rick > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch > wrote: > Lucien, > > I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my > suggestion properly, either! > I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike > B. 's ONLY reason for selling his > plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a > cloud, then an EFIS unit may be > a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as > the VFR crowd, have NO business being > in clouds! > > You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR > conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage > in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR > rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my > flight interests. > > I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says > prior to condemning their comments. > > Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found > himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit > can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that?? > > Mike Welch > VFR MkIII CX > > PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING > to do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight > parameters", airspeed, altitude, etc. > You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider > factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with > what I was talking about.. > > > >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... > >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in > >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work > >>very well at all for IFR flight. > >> > >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual > >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even > >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero > fun flying IFR. > >> > >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan > >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb > >>heat and pitot heat at least....... > >> > >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good > >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. > >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... > >> > >>LS > >> > >>-------- > >>LS > >>Titan II SS > > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from > Jamie. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com- > Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Airport Attitudes From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" << He was pretty much flying right down the runway, about 50' high, then turned ...>> pj.ladd wrote: << What an idiot. Flying in the immediate vicinity of an airfield circuit is stupid enough but to fly down the runway...... Does this guy think he is the only person in the air? Pat >> Pat - You may not be accustomed to some of the flying habits that are allowed in the US, so I can understand your alarm. What the powered parachute guy did was, essentially, a low approach over the runway. We do that all the time - nothing unsafe or illegal about it. He did had a radio, and announced on UNICOM his intentions. Many pilots seek out the less busy airfields (like where my Kolb is parked) to practice landings, touch and go's, and/or low approaches. The sparse traffic at these country airports make for ideal practice in the circuit. Especially because often, you ARE the only one in the air, as it was the this case. I truly believe he would have done this if there had been other traffic in the pattern, knowing that the disparity of speeds between his 'chute and all the other "regular" aircraft might cause a problem. He was the only aircraft still in the pattern, after I had landed. Aren't pilots allowed to stay in the pattern and do touch and go's at small airports in the UK? Dennis K. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:57 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Thanks Jerry. That's all I was saying. Better to have it than not. Truth is, as this same friend and I were leaving the Watsonville Fly-In ~1998, the entire sky was cloud cover(typical bay area high fog)....about 800 AGL. Even though this was not technically legal for all the VFR rated pilots to take off and head home, many hundreds of us did. Thank God for my Garmin 95XL (I wouldn't have departed if I didn't have it). We simply followed the highway looking straight down, about 200' beneath of clouds. There are hills about 10 miles to the east of Watsonville that you have to fly through the pass. We were hoping it was not going to close us in. Fortunately, the hills were easy to get past, and opened up to the clear San Juaquin Valley. Between the GPS, and an EFIS if I had one, I think even a moron like myself could have gotten out of Watsonville okay. I know at one time or another if all of us fly, we will be put in a situation that wasn't what we planned for. A new tool may augment our escape from stupidity or a bad situation. Mike Welch MkIII CX ________________________________ From: maderah2@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly ...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with near-IFR like moments, I for one would rather have the instrument, all else being equal, than not, if I were to actually get caught in IFR conditions. Truth be told, we have several "idiots" in these parts who have been caught, more often than not, on long cross-country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had something better than just a compass to tell them which way is up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, IMHO. That's my two centavos...now back to enjoying the repartee. Jerry Fresno On Oct 6, 2008, at 7:37 AM, Richard Girard wrote: Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be up. Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote: Lucien, I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my suggestion properly, either! I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's ONLY reason for selling his plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, then an EFIS unit may be a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR crowd, have NO business being in clouds! You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. I wasn't suggesting we engage in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my flight interests. I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior to condemning their comments. Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that?? Mike Welch VFR MkIII CX PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, altitude, etc. You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.. >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work >>very well at all for IFR flight. >> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun flying IFR. >> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb >>heat and pitot heat at least....... >> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... >> >>LS >> >>-------- >>LS >>Titan II SS _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! From: Email List PhotoShares (Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Jimmy Young Lists: Kolb-List Subject: 6 gal. tank installation, Firestar II http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jdy100@comcast.net.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:03 PM PST US From: Jimmy Young Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb : [ Jimmy Young ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! Wow, I posted that back around February or so. The photo credit goes to Dan G. in Arizona. He sent some pics to me to show how he rigged his 2 six gallon tanks in his FS, and I had tried to share them with the Kolb list. Jimmy Young FS II, Houston TX ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:29 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb : [ EAA Builder ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! From: Email List PhotoShares (Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: EAA Builder Lists: Kolb-List,Ultralight-List,Pietenpol-List Subject: Supercat Ultralight Aircraft http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Eaabuilder@aol.com.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:45 PM PST US From: larry duncan Subject: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the steel landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't know if I can justify the price. I would also like updates on the vw conversions and how they are working out. larry duncan lariardo@centurytel.net 97 mkIII 582 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:02 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW Larry, the steel legs would be good if you want a little more cabin elevation. Otherwise the aluminum ones are just as good They will absorb a lot of force before bending and will limit main structural damage. I have a couple slightly bent (not my doing) aluminum legs that I may someday install with the bend aiming down for some extra clearance. BB On 6, Oct 2008, at 5:00 PM, larry duncan wrote: > > > I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the > steel landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't > know if I can justify the price. I would also like updates on the > vw conversions and how they are working out. > > larry duncan > lariardo@centurytel.net > 97 mkIII > 582 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:08 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Nice if you need it. At 01:43 PM 10/6/2008, you wrote: >...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with >near-IFR like moments, I for one would rather have the instrument, >all else being equal, than not, if I were to actually get caught in >IFR conditions. Truth be told, we have several "idiots" in these >parts who have been caught, more often than not, on long >cross-country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had >something better than just a compass to tell them which way is >up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, >IMHO. That's my two centavos...now back to enjoying the repartee. > >Jerry ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:51 PM PST US From: Jerry Jones Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Curse you Possums!!! Why'd u do that? Now I got sumthn else I gotta hav. Jerry On Oct 6, 2008, at 2:59 PM, possums wrote: > > Nice if you need it. > > > At 01:43 PM 10/6/2008, you wrote: >> ...well, as one of those "idiots" who has had a brush or two with >> near-IFR like moments, I for one would rather have the instrument, >> all else being equal, than not, if I were to actually get caught >> in IFR conditions. Truth be told, we have several "idiots" in >> these parts who have been caught, more often than not, on long >> cross-country flights in IFR conditions and wished they had >> something better than just a compass to tell them which way is >> up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have >> it, IMHO. That's my two centavos...now back to enjoying the >> repartee. >> >> Jerry ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:49 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Arty, MIke, all, I've been suckered by a briefer's probably rating of the day's weather. I only use them occasionally now and one of several inputs to my fly/no fly decision on the weather. If the briefer says probably, take it as probably not.Arty, I spent too many days sitting on take off at Oceanside to ever forget that when the dew point and temperature coincide the flying is over for the day. That was what you experienced from the air, I think I liked it better from the ground. Besides the Deli sold great sandwiches and the beer was cold. I took a good look at JFK Jr's accident. From what I make of it he had a bad case of intermediate syndrome with a touch of getthereitis in an area that was known for that weather phenomenon. So on the weather issue I stand with the clouds, fog, haze, thunderstorms do not spring out of hiding group. The information is there for you evaluate before you fly. Let's get on with the real issue. If you had an EFIS would you be proficient and disciplined enough to use it, or would it just make those last 178 seconds even more mystifying. They're great, but taking the time to evaluate as many of the weather services available to you to get as clear a picture of the weather as you can before flying is a whole lot more reliable ounce of prevention than an EFIS pound of cure. It's also a ton cheaper. Rick On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:07 AM, TheWanderingWench < thewanderingwench@yahoo.com> wrote: > Rick Girard asked "How exactly does one find themselves in clouds? It's not > like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air."" > > I always had the same assumption - and was disabused during a September > flight on the Oregon coast. It was a grey day: there was haze and a very > high overcast and at least 5-8 miles visibility- nothing I'd identify as a > problem at the 1000' altitude we were flying at. As I flew, suddenly the > haze grew denser and thicker. And when I say "suddenly" I mean SUDDENLY. My > flying partner and I both dove down (Happily we were over fields) and then > turned around and flew back to the airstrip we'd just left. Dave said that > often on grey days, it's hard to discern fog until you are almost in it. The > greyness just seems to thicken around you, and you're "in clouds". Not white > billowing cumulus clouds - just dense pea soup. > > Arty Trost > Maxair Drifter > Sandy, OR > > > www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com > > "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" > Helen Keller > > "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." > > --- On *Mon, 10/6/08, Richard Girard * wrote: > > From: Richard Girard > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 7:37 AM > > Mike, How exactly does one suddenly find themselves in the clouds? It's > not like they can hide and suddenly spring out of thin air (pardon the pun) > with a big gotcha. While putting an EFIS in may be worth the instrumentation > since you do get a lot of read out in a small package. It will almost surely > give a false sense of security to some idiot whose 178 seconds will soon be > up. > Rick > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote: > >> Lucien, >> >> I don't think you're a wet blanket, but I don't think you read my >> suggestion properly, either! >> I DID'T say a Kolb would make a suitable IFR plane. I said IF Mike B. 's >> ONLY reason for selling his >> plane was that he didn't want to inadvertantly find himself in a cloud, >> then an EFIS unit may be >> a good choice to see his way out of it. I even mentioned we, as the VFR >> crowd, have NO business being >> in clouds! >> >> You completely misunderstood everything I said regarding IFR conditions. >> I wasn't suggesting we engage >> in IFR flight. In fact, I just sold my Cessna 172, which was IFR rated, >> but I'D NEVER do that. It's just not my >> flight interests. >> >> I'm not trying to be rude, but you should read what a person says prior >> to condemning their comments. >> >> Again, the ONLY point I was trying to make was " IF " he found >> himself ACCIDENTLY in a cloud, an EFIS unit >> can be a good way to get out fast!! Now, what wrong with that?? >> >> Mike Welch >> VFR MkIII CX >> >> PS. The reason I'm installing a Dynon D10A in my MkIII has NOTHING to do >> with IFR flight. I am only interested in the "flight parameters", airspeed, >> altitude, etc. >> You're right. If anyone wants IFR flight, they should consider factory >> iron (only). But, that didn't have anything to do with what I was talking >> about.. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Er, don't mean to be a wet blanket here, but.... >> >>I wouldn't bother. A Kolb would make a truly lousy IFR platform - in >> >>fact, I can't think of anything in the 912 class that would work >> >>very well at all for IFR flight. >> >> >> >>Truth is, I wouldn't take anything in the 912 class into actual >> >>period, even if it were IFR cert and I were instrument rated. Even >> >>my titan which is a straight and responsive flyer would be zero fun >> flying IFR. >> >> >> >>You want something big and stable for IFR, particularly if you plan >> >>on flying in actual (talk about ROUGH and WET conditions), with carb >> >>heat and pitot heat at least....... >> >> >> >>My advice if you need something for flying in IMC would be a good >> >>spam can - even the mightly 172 works very well as an IFR platform. >> >>They're cheap nowadays too due to the high gas prices.... >> >> >> >>LS >> >> >> >>-------- >> >>LS >> >>Titan II SS >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. >> >> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 >> >> >> >> >> > ** > > * > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:39 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Rick, If I had an EFIS, and I do (to be installed), I would practice ALL the cautions you suggest. I will do my darndest to avoid the IMC mentioned. I have NEVER been interested in flying anywhere I can't see on the horizon (or beyond the horizon, in the case of a long XC). I do not advocate an EFIS as a lawful excuse to go looking inside of clouds. My philosophy is "severe clear", or I'm not going. (I've highened my standards through the years). I whole-hardedly agree with yours' and Lucien's position regarding a EFIS's IFR use. My interest in an EFIS is only for all the bells and whistles, and nothing to do with IFR escapage. But, it is an undeniable fact that IF a person had a brain fade, and somehow got caught in some Cumula granite, an EFIS MAY possibly save you. I didn't say it would...just may. The photo of Stanley's (Possum's) panel looks just like it does, inside a cloud or not. Thanks for the lively discussion. Mike Welch MkIII CX PS. As a general rule, I usually agree with you and Lucien. At the very least, I respect that your opinion's vary from mine and a few others. _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:20 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW Larry I have the old style steel gear legs. I purchased them used at a bit of savings. These old gear legs are the solid spring steel legs that old Kolb sold. They are very springy. They do a real good job of absorbing bumps on rough runways. They don't raise the plane as much as the newer legs. They are a bit heaver and you have to land carefully or they will launch you back into the air on landing. I also have a VW on my Kolb MKIIIC. I now have 265 hours on the plane with all VW versions. I think about 65 hours with the latest redrive. I'm very happy. The engine/redrive runs very smooth and just doesn't give me any trouble. The series 3 redrive that I have now requires alot of work to align properly but once aligned only needs occasional belt retensioning. Newer models of the redrive are being lighted and lowered as Valley continues to refine the redrive. As I have said many times before the VW engine with this redrive has turned out to be a almost identical replacement for the Rotax 912 (80 HP) with a major cost savings. Reliability Is still yet to be proven but at the very least will be much better than the 2 stroke options. Cooling on the ground is still a concern so you have to watch you CHT temps. For my flying it isn't a issue but if I were flying at a airport were I had to wait in a long line for takeoff it could be. It appears that at taxi speeds it will stay cool but sitting at stop it will over heat. It will be interesting to hear from the guys that are putting the Nikasil cylinders on their VWs. I'm told they transfer heat 4 time better so this might resolve this issue. They are 10lbs. lighter and bigger for more power so they are worth extra cost anyway. If you haven't read the article I wrote I ask that you do. If you want I can sent you the text off list. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry duncan" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW > > I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the steel > landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't know if I can > justify the price. I would also like updates on the vw conversions and > how they are working out. > > larry duncan > lariardo@centurytel.net > 97 mkIII > 582 > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:47 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly If I had the money I'd get one just because they look so kool! Howard Shackleford FS II SC do not archive In a message dated 10/6/2008 7:02:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes: They're great, but taking the time to evaluate as many of the weather services available to you to get as clear a picture of the weather as you can before flying is a whole lot more reliable ounce of prevention than an EFIS pound of cure. It's also a ton cheaper. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
If I had the money I'd get one just because they look so kool!
 
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
do not archive
In a message dated 10/6/2008 7:02:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes:
They're great, but taking the time to evaluate as many of the weather services available to you to get as clear a picture of the weather as you can before flying is a whole lot more reliable ounce of prevention than an EFIS pound of cure. It's also a ton cheaper.
________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:16 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW I have the steel legs and wouldn't want to go back to the aluminum legs. I like the plane sets higher and wheels are several inchs farther forward. I do off field lands in the back country which can be a little rough and have not had a problems with them. I do have a set of spare aluminum just in case I should need them as a back up until the others can be repaired or replaced. -------------------------------------------------- From: "larry duncan" Sent: 2008-10-06 17:00 Subject: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW > > I would appreciate feed back on people who have switched to the steel > landing gear for a MKIII from the aluminum legs. I don't know if I can > justify the price. I would also like updates on the vw conversions and > how they are working out. > > larry duncan > lariardo@centurytel.net > 97 mkIII > 582 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:48 PM PST US From: KolbFlyerJim@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: How to adjust the pitch on my IVO prop? Hi Grant. Jim Here. facing the prop turning the adjuster to the left increases the pitch, If I remember correctly the jam nut is 1 5/16 or 1 1/2 it's been a while since I have adjusted mine. JIm VanGarsse Sr UltraStar 503 DCSI. N2613M **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:52 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. From: "Dave Rains" Good for you Arty! That is the mature way to handle a situation like this. However it just doesn't have the same satisfaction as punching his lights out. [Rolling Eyes] Will and I ran into a similar thing near home. At Alamogordo NM, there is but one FBO. When we needed fuel for the FireStars, he said "it's not worth my time". Later I dropped in flying my Cessna and he asked if I needed fuel, I of course replied, "your not worth my time". Hope to see the gang at Monument Valley next spring. Dave Rains -------- Dave Rains N8086T Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7701#207701 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly From: "JetPilot" Mike, You will love flying with the EFIS.. Even if you don't need the horizon you will really like having all the flight information presented to you on one screen. As far as accidentally getting into clouds, it happens, even to some very good and experienced pilots, it happens. At the speed our Kolbs fly, here in Florida its possible to fly through a pretty clear area, and turn around and find it closed in within 10 minutes. Its funny that you mention this now... Just last week my friend had to divert in his skyboy and land 70 miles away, because of thunderstorms and rain. He was lucky nothing built in behind him as he had to return and backtrack about 30 miles to an airport. If you cant go forward, and a LOT can happen behind you in 30 minutes when thunderstorms are building. You read of many crashes where people accidentally get into clouds. You hear of many more cases where people scare the schit out of themselves but are saved by being able do a 180 on instruments. For every crash, there are many close calls... That is why most airplanes capable of going any distance cross country almost universally have Artificial Horizons in them... Even if planes are built and certified for VFR only, they universally come from the factory with artificial horizons. It gives you a chance to fly the plane and live instead of just getting into a graveyard spiral, crashing and killing everyone on board. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7711#207711 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:25 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: IFR Conditions unexpectedly Yup!! And like Howard said, they look so kool, too!! Mike Welch > Mike, That is why most airplanes capable of going any distance cross country almost universally have Artificial Horizons in them... Even if planes are built and certified for VFR only, they universally come from the factory with artificial horizons. It gives you a chance to fly the plane and live instead of just getting into a graveyard spiral, crashing and killing everyone on board. > > Mike _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:01 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. Greetings, Speaking of Alamogordo I started my rotorcraft training last week in this R22. _http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=757447603898244807&hl=en_ (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=757447603898244807&hl=en) Dave finally hovered his Mosquito helicopter last week. Regards, Will Uribe FireStar II N4GU El Paso, TX _Will's web page_ (http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/) -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Rains Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dealing with unfriendly airport mgrs. Good for you Arty! That is the mature way to handle a situation like this. However it just doesn't have the same satisfaction as punching his lights out. [Rolling Eyes] Will and I ran into a similar thing near home. At Alamogordo NM, there is but one FBO. When we needed fuel for the FireStars, he said "it's not worth my time". Later I dropped in flying my Cessna and he asked if I needed fuel, I of course replied, "your not worth my time". Hope to see the gang at Monument Valley next spring. Dave Rains -------- Dave Rains N8086T **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:30 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW Subject: Re: Kolb-List: steel landing gear and VW Larry, the steel legs would be good if you want a little more cabin elevation. Otherwise the aluminum ones are just as good They will absorb a lot of force before bending and will limit main structural damage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- I have to disagree with your statement about limiting damage with the aluminum legs. My personal experience has been just the opposite. My first problem was with the old style Firestar leg (much smaller) a hard landing bent the leg outward causing the tire to drag me in a left turn which resulted in spanning a ditch with the cage, but the gear legs hit the other bank. I had to strip the entire cage and have the cage straightened. The next was a off field landing in a camouflaged boulder field which broke a gear leg just above the axle leaving a forward pointing gear leg that flipped me upside down. Not much damage to the cage, but I had to recover the whole airplane. The last was a broken axle housing ? that again left me with a forward facing gear leg that dug into the ground all the way up to the bottom of the cage. This one caused the gear leg sockets to be bent back towards the tail, which again required the repair of tubes and a recover job. All of which could have been prevented by some good steel gear legs. If the gear legs pointed backwards then I could agree that damage would be limited by the softer gear legs, but the way they are pointed the slightest failure of the gear legs will probably result in a lot of damage. In summary it is going to take a hell of a hard bounce to equal the damage caused by a broken alum leg. I finally decided to beef up my landing gear in every way that I could because I now believe that will save me some work and headaches. Yes my Firestar sits a little higher, but it makes it look a whole lot better in my opinion. I don't find it to be uncomfortable high however. Just my opinion, yours may differ, Larry C, Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.