---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/28/08: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - Re: Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... (pj.ladd) 2. 06:05 AM - Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... (cristalclear13) 3. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... (russ kinne) 4. 10:15 AM - Tree landings (grantr) 5. 10:20 AM - Re: Tree landings (Robert Laird) 6. 10:20 AM - Re: More Flying pictures (grantr) 7. 12:07 PM - Partial FireFly For Sale (Jack B. Hart) 8. 12:19 PM - Re: Tree landings (grantr) 9. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Tree landings (Robert Laird) 10. 01:03 PM - Re: Tree landings (robert bean) 11. 01:11 PM - Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... (lucien) 12. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Tree landings (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 13. 01:42 PM - Re: Tree landings (grantr) 14. 01:42 PM - Re: Bahama bound () 15. 02:24 PM - Re: Tree landings (possums) 16. 02:37 PM - Re: Tree landings (Dana Hague) 17. 05:43 PM - Re: Tree landings (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 18. 06:25 PM - New Fan Wing (beauford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:12 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... WOW! What posh hangars. I must put a pic of mine up one day just to show how the lower half of the social scale operates. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... From: "cristalclear13" pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > WOW! > What posh hangars. I must put a pic of mine up one day just to show how the > lower half of the social scale operates. > > Cheers > > Pat Pat, The airport just built those. I attached a picture of what we WERE using. When it would rain it would wash our chocks away and the hanger would fill up with inches of rain...very corrosive environment. I couldn't afford to stay in these new ones if I wasn't sharing. I may not be able to stay anyways because neither one of us can afford the Million dollars of liability insurance that is required to stay there. We are trying to see if they'll reduce that requirement. If not I may be sharing space with my goats in their shed! [Laughing] -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210761#210761 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n193y_right_side_422.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:46 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... Pat In my experience the 'lower half of the social scale' (that's me I fear) has to let their aircraft sit outdoors at the mercy of rain, snow, hail, dust, bird droppings & cattle with itchy butts. Metal planes seem to survive this -- do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:11 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Tree landings From: "grantr" I though this would be another good topic to bring up. Tree landings scare me! Luckily I have mostly open fields where I fly but one end of our runway has trees and some other obstructions. Pine trees in particular do not have many branches and the few they have are located at the top of the trees. So if you had to make a landing in the pines it's a good chance your airplane will fall right through the trees and plummet to the ground some 50+ feet. That would be very bad! So what do you do if you have a tight road with possible power lines crossing that you can't see and road signs in close? Take the trees or attempt the road? Not sure if our light planes would takeout a power line without losing control. Have any of you had a tree landings? I guess if you had a brs it would help in a tree landings since the chute would get tangled in the trees. I don't have a brs. Grant Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210808#210808 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:38 AM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tree landings Don't know if it will help, but here's an account of a friends' crash: http://www.texas-flyer.com/RicksCrash/ On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:14 PM, grantr wrote: > > I though this would be another good topic to bring up. Tree landings > scare me! Luckily I have mostly open fields where I fly but one end of > our runway has trees and some other obstructions. > > Pine trees in particular do not have many branches and the few they > have are located at the top of the trees. So if you had to make a > landing in the pines it's a good chance your airplane will fall right > through the trees and plummet to the ground some 50+ feet. That would > be very bad! > > So what do you do if you have a tight road with possible power lines > crossing that you can't see and road signs in close? Take the trees or > attempt the road? Not sure if our light planes would takeout a power > line without losing control. > > Have any of you had a tree landings? I guess if you had a > brs it would help in a tree landings since the chute would get tangled > in the trees. I don't have a brs. > > Grant > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210808#210808 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:49 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: More Flying pictures From: "grantr" Here are more pictures a friend took of me with my plane around the airport. [ 2 Stroke smoke! Ready to taxi Just taking off Wave to the camera! about to turn cross wind leg downwing leg 1000 agl Landing approach 65mph approach Landing taxing back. Just anther landing approach Landing More pictures here http://s340.photobucket.com/albums/o353/grant31781/Souther%20feild%2010-4-08/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210809#210809 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:24 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: Partial FireFly For Sale Kolbers, If you are interested in the following, contact Bob Everhart, Bartlesville, OK at 74512@cableone.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Hi Jack, Are you interested or do you know of anyone who would be interested in purchasing a partially assembled firefly kit? At this time, I do not have an inventory of what all is there but it looks as if the fuselage, wings,landing gear,tail section,instruction manual are there. I will have more information and be able to be more specific towards the end of next week.(around 10/16/2008). Thank you Bob Everhart Bartlesville OK." "Bob, I know of no one around here that would be interested. Mine is in the air and I don't need another. You might put up a notice on the Kolb List. If you are not a member of this list, send me the complete information and I will post it to the list so they can contact you directly." "Hi Jack, Thanks for getting back to me. I found that I have kits one and two and the covering kit as listed on the kolb site. If bought from Kolb, it would cost around $9,450. I would be willing to let it go for $6,800. ......Looks like a real fun project. Thanks again Bob Everhart." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tree landings From: "grantr" Thanks for sharing that. A single line of trees would definitely not be good. Really amazed that he wasn't hurt. It looks like he could have landed in the field on the other side of the road. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210825#210825 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:41 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tree landings He's gone over and over the whole thing in his head a thousand times, and, in 20-20 hindsight, there were lots of options, but as it was happening, I guess tunnel vision tends to restrict it to what you see ahead of you. He also freely admits that he had yet to practice any engine-outs in -that- plane, so he was unfamiliar with how fast it would descend, and that reached up an bit him. As for being unhurt, I'd say it was mostly luck, but, the Buccaneer is a sea-plane, and sea-planes are usually built much more robustly than land-planes, and that may have had a lot to do with it. -- Robert On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:19 PM, grantr wrote: > > Thanks for sharing that. A single line of trees would definitely not be good. > > Really amazed that he wasn't hurt. It looks like he could have landed in the field on the other side of the road. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210825#210825 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:33 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tree landings Good story. -also a lesson to not diddle getting to the best spot, if any. Too high is much better than too low. When close enough for confidence you can do all the other stuff like flaps, dump slipping, S-turns. Have to admit I didn't use my flaps going into the high alfalfa this spring, but then I was low and slow to begin. The last good thing to avail is the high drag a kolb has. Just push the nose down toward your best spot and head right there. If you are looking at a fence coming up don't bother with a stall, plant it. Just before you hit that barbed wire do a ground loop. -done it all, not much damage. BB On 28, Oct 2008, at 1:20 PM, Robert Laird wrote: > > Don't know if it will help, but here's an account of a friends' crash: > > http://www.texas-flyer.com/RicksCrash/ > > > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:14 PM, grantr > wrote: >> >> >> I though this would be another good topic to bring up. Tree landings >> scare me! Luckily I have mostly open fields where I fly but one >> end of >> our runway has trees and some other obstructions. >> >> Pine trees in particular do not have many branches and the few they >> have are located at the top of the trees. So if you had to make a >> landing in the pines it's a good chance your airplane will fall right >> through the trees and plummet to the ground some 50+ feet. That would >> be very bad! >> >> So what do you do if you have a tight road with possible power lines >> crossing that you can't see and road signs in close? Take the >> trees or >> attempt the road? Not sure if our light planes would takeout a power >> line without losing control. >> >> Have any of you had a tree landings? I guess if you had a >> brs it would help in a tree landings since the chute would get >> tangled >> in the trees. I don't have a brs. >> >> Grant >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210808#210808 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:40 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Pictures !!! Flying a Kolb Around South Arizona... From: "lucien" JetPilot wrote: > The Southwest has to be one of the prettiest areas in the country to fly over. I hope to fly these areas one of these days, thanks for posting. > > Mike Speaking of flying in the southwest, I took this from my titan, but I would have loved to have done this in the FS II. This is on final approach to the Los Alamos airport, where you can only approach from the east. I took this last winter and it was about 15 degrees in the cockpit at the time. If you don't have the runway made and there's a problem, you have no escape whatever. It's down into the cliffs with surely lots of unexploded ordinance down there from Los Alamos National Labs' activities. (LANL is visible directly to the left of the runway in this picture. Note also the smoke, there was a fire going on in the town at the time). LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210839#210839 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00074_109.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:43 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tree landings A friend of mine's 80 year old dad crashed his Kolb (seems like it was a firefly) in a tree. I think it was in a woods not a single tree. It was in the UP of Michigan were there aren't many single trees. Any way, he didn't get hurt and I don't think the plane was hurt much either. He did sprain an ankle climbing down to the ground. The next time he flew the plane, he crashed the Kolb in a river. Again he wasn't hurt. Another story recovering the plane from the river After that he was grounded from flying so there were no more crashes. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Laird" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tree landings > > He's gone over and over the whole thing in his head a thousand times, > and, in 20-20 hindsight, there were lots of options, but as it was > happening, I guess tunnel vision tends to restrict it to what you see > ahead of you. He also freely admits that he had yet to practice any > engine-outs in -that- plane, so he was unfamiliar with how fast it > would descend, and that reached up an bit him. > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tree landings From: "grantr" Why ground the guy hes 80 for crying out loud if he likes to fly let him do it! :) Were the crashes pilot error or other? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210849#210849 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bahama bound John when are you planning no making the crossing? I plan on going but waiting for information and what is needed for permits to fly over in the Bahamas. M111C/912 -------------------------------------------------- From: "2danglico" Sent: 2008-10-26 16:49 Subject: Kolb-List: Bahama bound > > May we, as ultralight fliers, make the hop to Grand Bahama Island? I've > got a friend who can pick me up, if I can refuel there, then fly to > Walkers Cay. -John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210389#210389 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:05 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tree landings At 01:14 PM 10/28/2008, you wrote: > >I though this would be another good topic to bring up. Tree landings >scare me! Luckily I have mostly open fields where I fly but one end of >our runway has trees and some other obstructions. Here's one with a 20 mph crosswind landing, flipped him up, over and upside down into the trees before he ever touched down in. Four of us made it down before him and he was dragging behind everybody because of his floats. We were actually eating lunch at the other end of the runway (couldn't see him) when we first heard his engine go from normal to this God awful "full throttle/chain saw" sound. You might notice that his "nose" never touched the ground. Got a Wrecker to pick his plane up and put it on the runway. He towed it home - one less Possum. Another one of us landing into our home field with a almost new Firestar II. Missed the downwind turn, totaled the plane, in the woods big time, EMT's Ambulance, Sheriff's deputies, FAA the next day, etc. Tore the wings off coming through the trees full throttle back 300 ft in the woods.. All he did was break his arm and wouldn't have had that if he had keep his arm inside the cockpit. He was still strapped into the cage and mumbling about something or other. Later he said he couldn't remember anything after he hit the first tree. There used to be big trees where these houses are. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=263159682459782825&hl=en ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:38 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tree landings At 01:14 PM 10/28/2008, grantr wrote: >So what do you do if you have a tight road with possible power lines >crossing that you can't see and road signs in close? Take the trees or >attempt the road? Not sure if our light planes would takeout a power >line without losing control. > >Have any of you had a tree landings? I guess if you had a >brs it would help in a tree landings since the chute would get tangled >in the trees. I don't have a brs. I think the trees would be a better choice than power lines. If you hit the lines at one point it'll snap you around fast; with luck trees you'll hit both wings and absorb some energy. Going full into the trees is a better choice than a tree lined road that's narrower than your wingspan. About a month ago I related my friend's tree landing in his MKIII, due [apparently] to water in the gas. Probably shouldn't call it a landing though, it was the classic stall/spin scenario through trying to turn back to the airport after an the engine failed on takeoff. The better choice, in retrospect, would have been to go into the water straight ahead. From the point where he hit the treetops to point of impact was about a 45 angle. Surgery to try to rebuild his shattered angle is Thursday; his passenger is sore but recovering from a pelvis cracked in three places. -Dana -- The Definition of an Upgrade: Take old bugs out, put new ones in. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:00 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tree landings Don't fly over anything you don't want to land on if you are worried about your equipment do not archive Ellery in Maine In a message dated 10/28/2008 12:15:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "grantr" I though this would be another good topic to bring up. Tree landings scare me! Luckily I have mostly open fields where I fly but one end of our runway has trees and some other obstructions. Pine trees in particular do not have many branches and the few they have are located at the top of the trees. So if you had to make a landing in the pines it's a good chance your airplane will fall right through the trees and plummet to the ground some 50+ feet. That would be very bad! So what do you do if you have a tight road with possible power lines crossing that you can't see and road signs in close? Take the trees or attempt the road? Not sure if our light planes would takeout a power line without losing control. Have any of you had a tree landings? I guess if you had a brs it would help in a tree landings since the chute would get tangled in the trees. I don't have a brs. Grant Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210808#210808 **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites , no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: New Fan Wing From: "beauford" I assume that TNKolb is quietly preparing for the advent of this, the latest in high lift technology... If you think VG's were a big deal, take a look at this airplane... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asJqvrikQSA ...am already taking measurements on the Fly...keeping the bicycle pedals inside the confines of the nose cone could be a problem... more to follow... BTW...tree landings...no problem...just keep yer knees together, your hands under yer armpits...and don't fergit to drop the PAE bag... works every time... do not archive beauford FF076 Brandon, FL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210882#210882 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.