---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/07/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:30 AM - FS II discontinued? (lucien) 2. 04:41 PM - Re: FS II discontinued? (grantr) 3. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: FS II discontinued? (Art Stallings) 4. 05:11 PM - VG affect on stall (grantr) 5. 05:18 PM - What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? (grantr) 6. 05:21 PM - Re: FS II discontinued? (grantr) 7. 05:24 PM - Re: VG affect on stall (Larry Cottrell) 8. 05:27 PM - Re: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? (Larry Cottrell) 9. 05:37 PM - Deleting old emails, and finding some nice stuff (Mike Welch) 10. 06:09 PM - Re: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? (ropermike) 11. 06:55 PM - Re: VG affect on stall (HShack@aol.com) 12. 06:58 PM - Re: VG affect on stall (grantr) 13. 07:18 PM - Re: VG affect on stall (beauford T) 14. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: VG affect on stall (Larry Cottrell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:41 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: FS II discontinued? From: "lucien" Hi all, I was browsing the kolb site yesterday and noticed the FS II is no longer listed. Has it been discontinued or something like that? Just curious, LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218036#218036 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FS II discontinued? From: "grantr" Yes discontinued Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218054#218054 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:36 PM PST US From: "Art Stallings" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FS II discontinued? No not discontinued. They will build them by special order. On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:40 PM, grantr wrote: > > Yes discontinued > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218054#218054 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:53 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: VG affect on stall From: "grantr" Someone told me that VGs do lower stall speed and improve low speed handling but there is a trade off. They told me VGs cause a plane to stall more sharply or more abrupt than it would without them. In other words most planes give warning signs prior to the stall such as the shaking and light control forces in the stick however with VGs this tends to not occurs as the plane nears stall. In other words with VGs, the plane seems to be flying rock solid at slow airspeed say "slow flight" and then all of a sudden the plane is in a fully developed stall with little to no warning. The ones of you using or have tried vgs, Do you agree or disagree with this? On my plane in a power off stall without Vgs, It does not give really any warning. When the ASI hits 41 the nose drops. Power on it gives plenty of waring as the prop gets really loud prior to the stall. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218057#218057 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:00 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? From: "grantr" I tested my plane MK III C with 503 today to see how much Altitude loss would occur in a 180 degree turn at idle flying solo. Todays temp was 56 degrees. My plane lost 300 feet in the turn by making a 45o turn at 55 mph IAS. I preformed the maneuver 4 times with the same result. This is great since one end of our runway is full of trees and those Big metal tower High voltage transmission lines! I usually cross the end of the runway at 700 to 800 feet AGl. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218059#218059 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FS II discontinued? From: "grantr" Sorry for the wrong Info. Travis emailed me a few months ago and said the MK III C and the Firestar were discontinued. I guess he meant they were not producing them in bulk. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218060#218060 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:09 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VG affect on stall ----- Original Message ----- From: grantr To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:11 PM Subject: Kolb-List: VG affect on stall They told me VGs cause a plane to stall more sharply or more abrupt than it would without them. The ones of you using or have tried vgs, Do you agree or disagree with this? disagree! Larry C Firestar II 437 hours. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:54 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? ----- Original Message ----- From: grantr To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: Kolb-List: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? I tested my plane MK III C with 503 today to see how much Altitude loss would occur in a 180 degree turn at idle flying solo. Todays temp was 56 degrees. My plane lost 300 feet in the turn by making a 45o turn at 55 mph IAS. Grant, My Firestar II with VG's ( I hesitate to even reply to this topic) will do the same maneuver and lose less than 100 feet. I did it several times as well. Larry C ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:35 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Deleting old emails, and finding some nice stuff Kolb people=2C I thought I'd take some time and thin out a few hundred o ld emails. I couldn't help but read a few. It was kind of interesting re- reading a lot of older emails many of you have posted. Of course=2C I've got lots of cartoon and joke emails from Michael Sharp (of Kansis City vici nity). He sends these to me off-list. Too bad they aren't Kolb related 'c ause they sure are intertaining. I've come across lots of informative ema ils from the more scholarly among us=2C and quite a few emails that were aw aste of cyber-ink. It was a special pleasure coming across icrashrc's ( Scott's) progress photos of his Xtra. I don't recall seeing his home-made =2C carbon fiber=2C awesome Icom A24 console mount. He=2C like Uncle Cra ig=2C Jack=2C and Possums=2C and many others=2C are quite the craftsmen!! There are=2C of course=2C many other Kolb aircraft builders that do very n ice work!! Without naming all of you=2C weknow who you are!! It was sa ddening to recall a few "ultralight crashes" that were posted=2C and especi ally troubling was all the emailsrelated to John W's crash and Bill S's "mi shap"!! Promise you won't do that again=2C Bill!!! Today=2C for the firs t time in over six months=2C I've finally resumed working on my MkIII. I m ounted one of the discson my wheels for my disc brakes set-up. BTW. Reca ll about three weeks ago=2C a guy named Brett (Bonaco=2C Inc) offered to su pply for "FREE" a set of teflon core/stainless steel braided custom-made br ake lines to the first person who gave him the dimensions. Well=2C that wa s me!! I talked to him on the phone Friday=2C he said the two brake lines PLUS all the appropriate NPT fittings are being mailed in Friday's mail. W e'll see. Truely=2C this would be a first=2C where someone justs sends you something out of the blue.....for free!! I'm just guessing=2C but I bet t his would be a hundred dollar set of premium brake lines....maybe more?? I 'll post a picture of them if they do=2C in fact=2C show up. (Sounds too g ood to be true!!) You can go look at their webite...www.bonacoinc.com. Th ere really is a guy there named Brett=2C and we discussed the measurements I sent him=2C and we'll see if all this is true in a few days. Best regards=2C Mike Welch Kolb MkIII CX (out of mothballs) _________________________________________________________________ You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:00 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? From: "ropermike" My Mk II looses 300' also on a 180* turn. I practice this turn often in case of a flame out on take off. I know I must be at least 350' high to turn back to runway. I practice at a safe altitude of course... -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218070#218070 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:09 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VG affect on stall When I designed & installed my VG's some 7 or 8 yrs. ago, I put 7 on each wing [these were the aluminum flashing kind]. My stall dropped from 41 to 36. The stall was still very gentle; in fact it didn't really want to stall. I added 13 more per wing. Stall dropped another 4 mph, but when she stalled it was rather violent & scary. I hated the way it felt, so went back to the original 7 per wing. Happy again. By the way, I also have them under my horiz. stab. Howard Shackleford FS II SC In a message dated 12/7/2008 8:12:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes: Someone told me that VGs do lower stall speed and improve low speed handling but there is a trade off. They told me VGs cause a plane to stall more sharply or more abrupt than it would without them. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VG affect on stall From: "grantr" lcottrell, What does "Quote" mean?? You agree with my statement? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218075#218075 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:41 PM PST US From: "beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VG affect on stall I used Brother Shackleford's flashing design... 10 per wing... dropped stall 5 mph indicated... stall remains a non-event... straight ahead and slow to break at normal acceleration... I also put 3 per side under the horizontal stab and can tell a big difference in elevator authority near stall speed...since these worked out so well, went nuts and put 3 per side on the vertical stab to see if it would give more rudder authority for slips...some small improvement, but not as much as on the wings or the horizontal stab. Bystanders report that the airplane now whistles as it passes by... Thoroughly Generated Beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: HShack@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VG affect on stall When I designed & installed my VG's some 7 or 8 yrs. ago, I put 7 on each wing [these were the aluminum flashing kind]. My stall dropped from 41 to 36. The stall was still very gentle; in fact it didn't really want to stall. I added 13 more per wing. Stall dropped another 4 mph, but when she stalled it was rather violent & scary. I hated the way it felt, so went back to the original 7 per wing. Happy again. By the way, I also have them under my horiz. stab. Howard Shackleford FS II SC In a message dated 12/7/2008 8:12:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes: Someone told me that VGs do lower stall speed and improve low speed handling but there is a trade off. They told me VGs cause a plane to stall more sharply or more abrupt than it would without them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it now. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:49 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: VG affect on stall ----- Original Message ----- From: grantr To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VG affect on stall lcottrell, What does "Quote" mean?? You agree with my statement? Actually I wrote "Disagree", not sure how it got to what you saw. I am using Howards VG's and have experienced nothing but great results. I have mine on each rib and one in a valley between the false ribs half way between the ribs. I think that there are three false ribs between the ribs. One is placed in the middle. It dropped my stall speed from 46 mph (indicated, who knows what it actually was) to 29 or 30 mph indicated and on the GPS. Mine however is not abrupt, or scary in the slightest. That would lead me to believe that each plane is different and you would have to make your own decisions as to what is acceptable, or desirable. Disclaimer: I am not making any recommendations that would lead to another boring discussion on VG's, merely responding to a direct question. I like them and use them. You will have to make your own decisions regarding the use of them. :-) Larry C do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.