Kolb-List Digest Archive

Mon 12/22/08


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:32 AM - Re: Engine Installation (icrashrc)
     2. 01:54 AM - Re: Propeller pitch (Jean PILLAUDIN)
     3. 02:02 AM - Re: Propeller pitch (icrashrc)
     4. 06:03 AM - Re: brake lines/tow cart (Thom Riddle)
     5. 06:12 AM - Re: Propeller pitch (John Hauck)
     6. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: Engine Installation (John Hauck)
     7. 07:05 AM - Re: Propeller pitch (robcannon)
     8. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Propeller pitch (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
     9. 11:40 AM - Re: Brake lines  (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
    10. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Brake lines  (herb)
    11. 12:16 PM - 912 Carb Heat  (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
    12. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: Brake lines  (robert bean)
    13. 01:41 PM - Re: 912 Carb Heat  (John Hauck)
    14. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Brake lines  (Dana Hague)
    15. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Brake lines  (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
    16. 10:24 PM - Re: Propeller pitch (icrashrc)
    17. 10:27 PM - Re: Propeller pitch (icrashrc)
    18. 10:32 PM - Re: Engine Installation (icrashrc)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:32:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engine Installation
    From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc@aol.com>
    Good eye! Pics were taken in process. Everything was tightened before we ran the engine. After we finish the center gap fill we'll take it all back apart for paint and covering. williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote: > Scott- That is a nice, neat installation. I do see a loose nut- are you going to disassemble, or did you take a photo in progress? > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220495#220495


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:54:34 AM PST US
    From: "Jean PILLAUDIN" <jean.pillaudin@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Propeller pitch
    Hi Scott, Very good idea you have! Be carefull to not turn your laser in his support between two blade, because the optic axe of the laser is not the axe of this small tube. If you take care of that you'll have a very precise method. I use this kind of laser stuff to collimate my newton telescope (To align properly the primary mirror with the secondary) and I have to firmly fix the tube in the support to avoid any kind of alignment error. Thank's for sharing this with us ! Good construction. Jean 2008/12/22 icrashrc <icrashrc@aol.com> > > Getting the pitch set exactly the same on all prop blades is very > important. Here's how Paul and I did it. > > http://ill-eagleaviation.com/prop_laser.htm > > -------- > Scott > > www.ill-EagleAviation.com > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220484#220484 > >


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:02:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Propeller pitch
    From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc@aol.com>
    The laser is fixed. It can"t rotate in the mount. Other wise yes, there could [would] be issues with the optical center of the laser. -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220498#220498


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:03:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: brake lines/tow cart
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Bob, Having landed on your field many times, I believe your decision to go with metallic brake lines near the wheels is probably a good one. Sometimes your airport maintenance folks do a great job and sometimes they are kicking back with a beer or ten, watching the grass grow to unseemly lengths :-). -------- Thom Riddle N1208P RANS S6S, Tailwheel, 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- It is by universal misunderstanding that all agree. For if, by ill luck, people understood each other, they would never agree. - Charles Baudelaire Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220508#220508


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:12:33 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Propeller pitch
    > Getting the pitch set exactly the same on all prop blades is very > important. Here's how Paul and I did it. > -------- > Scott Hi Scott: Looks like a good idea. I have always set pitch on my Warp Drives with their protractor. However, there is always a little bit of chance to not get each of the three blades set exactly alike. It does make a lot of difference if all three blades are set identically. I'd like to have a set up like that, something you could hang on the blade, after leveling of course, and be able to set all three blades the same without fear of not having the laser pointer in the same position. john h - 22F, up from 21F when I got up a few minutes ago. mkIII


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:13:43 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Engine Installation
    > Can't tell from the photo but is the drain plug offset to the side of that brace? Just wondering what oil changes will be like with the tank up there? > > LS LS: I pull my tank to change oil. This also gives me a chance to rinse the tank out with gasoline, take it apart, and inspect the innards. john h mkIII


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:05:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Propeller pitch
    From: "robcannon" <leecannon@telus.net>
    I used a digital level. Not quite as cheap (except I borrowed mine), but is very simple, and accurate as well. You can buy digital angle finders fairly inexpensively, and they would also work well. To find the pitch there is no need to level the plane for and aft (relatively level sideways is nice). Take a reading off the prop flange, then just subtract (or add) this from the reading you take off the blades. (clamp the level to the blades with a quick clamp) To do quick, accurate adjustments you also need some way of getting the snug blades to move micro amounts. A one by four ( piece of wood ) about 30 inches long, with your prop airfoil hole cut in it works great. When setting up my hks four blade powerfin, I did so many prop changes, I got it down to about 3 minutes ! cheers, Rob Cannon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220517#220517


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:01:54 AM PST US
    From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Propeller pitch
    Rob I used to use the laser method on my Powerfin prop but I found that the factory method using the dowel pin and feeler gages worked more accurately and is quicker. Another benefit is that I can tweak the pitch in very small increments (much less than one degree). I also use a 2x4 with the blade cutout for moving the blades. When you use a laser or even a digital protractor there are so many variables that can introduce uneven pitches between blades. I also had a fixture I would rest on the wing to hold the leading edge of the prop in the same exact rotation to reduce the inaccuracy between blades when using a laser. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "robcannon" <leecannon@telus.net> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Propeller pitch > > I used a digital level. Not quite as cheap (except I borrowed mine), but > is very simple, and accurate as well. You can buy digital angle finders > fairly inexpensively, and they would also work well. To find the pitch > there is no need to level the plane for and aft (relatively level > sideways is nice). Take a reading off the prop flange, then just subtract > (or add) this from the reading you take off the blades. (clamp the level > to the blades with a quick clamp) To do quick, accurate adjustments you > also need some way of getting the snug blades to move micro amounts. A > one by four ( piece of wood ) about 30 inches long, with your prop airfoil > hole cut in it works great. > When setting up my hks four blade powerfin, I did so many prop changes, > I got it down to about 3 minutes ! > cheers, Rob Cannon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220517#220517 > > >


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:40:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brake lines
    From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
    << Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil ... not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color, Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation with the brake system you have. Ellery >> Ellery, and Kolb Friends - Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems. I know this because I called them and asked this very question. Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine. Being able to use ATF makes it convenient. Dennis Kirby Cedar Crest, NM Do not archive


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:08:02 PM PST US
    From: herb <herbgh@nctc.com>
    Subject: Re: Brake lines
    the only trouble in using the "right Stuff" ; is ..that it can be and maybe, usually is, a generic product with "for aircraft use" written on it at 10 times the price....!! ....:-) frugal Herb At 01:38 PM 12/22/2008, you wrote: >< > > >< Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil =85 >not anywhere near the same stuff just because it >is red in color, Use the right fluid for >manufacture recommendation with the brake system you have. Ellery >> > >Ellery, and Kolb Friends ' > >Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) >recommends automotive Automatic Transmission >Fluid for use in their brake systems. I know >this because I called them and asked this very >question. Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, >including mine. Being able to use ATF makes it convenient. > >Dennis Kirby >Cedar Crest, NM >Do not archive > >


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:16:00 PM PST US
    Subject: 912 Carb Heat
    From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
    << I paid 385.00 for a hot water carb heat system which included the covers. I flew with the carb heat system for a few years, then uninstalled everything except the filter covers. john h >> John - I'm curious: why didn't you want to keep that carb heat system on your 912? I'm undecided on the decision to get one or not for my 912ul. On a few occasions flying my Mark-3 in likely-carb-ice conditions (humid air, 60-degree temps), I've detected my engine give a brief falter in RPM, which is a sign of the carbs shedding a bit of ice that just formed. Really gets your attention. I've seen 'em advertised through Lockwood, and I thought having a carb ice prevention system on my engine might add safety. True? Dennis Kirby "Magic Bike," N93DK in Cedar Crest, NM


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:32:35 PM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Brake lines
    Considering this thread, I wondered why cars use glycol-based fluid instead of a straight mineral oil. It must have to do with early seal rubber longevity. The boiling point difference between ATF and glycol can't be large. Mineral would seem to be superior if only for the lack of hygroscopic quality. BTW, I changed the seals in my matco wheel cylinders so I could use car fluid in them and my dune buggy master cylinder. BB On 22, Dec 2008, at 3:07 PM, herb wrote: > > the only trouble in using the "right Stuff" ; is ..that it can be > and maybe, usually is, a generic product with "for aircraft use" > written on it at 10 times the price....!! ....:-) frugal Herb > > At 01:38 PM 12/22/2008, you wrote: >> < >> >> >> < Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil =85 not anywhere near >> the same stuff just because it is red in color, Use the right >> fluid for manufacture recommendation with the brake system you >> have. Ellery >> >> >> Ellery, and Kolb Friends ' >> >> Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive >> Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems. I >> know this because I called them and asked this very question. >> Many of our Kolbs have Matco brakes, including mine. Being able >> to use ATF makes it convenient. >> >> Dennis Kirby >> Cedar Crest, NM >> Do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:41:26 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: 912 Carb Heat
    Dennis: I bought and installed the carb heat system, hot water, after encountering carb ice on a flight to Alaska in 2000. On my approach to Toad River, BC, I lost the engine, at idle, just prior to touch down. I already had the fi eld made, so no problem there. Another reminder to shoot the approach to m ake the field if the engine quits on final. Norm Labhardt did not do that. A lot of other pilots have not done that and have paid the price. Soon as I rolled out and stopped, I hit the starter and the engine would no t start with the throttle at normal position for starting, closed. I opene d the throttle some and the engine then started. It ran perfect above 3,00 0 rpm, but would shut down as soon as I let the rpm drop below 3,000. I ta xiied back to the east end of the strip and shut her down. Walked across t he Alaska Highway, got a cup of coffee, walked back to the airplane and aga in tried to crank it. This is about 20 minutes later. Engine fired right up and idled like a Singer sewing machine. Problem was the idle jet iced u p. I gave the ice time to melt and the engine was running normal again. I installed the carb heat system prior to my Alaska flight in 2001. Used i t for several years. Never did like it because of the hot water system tap ping into the coolant line, plus piping hot water into the cockpit area for the control valve. Do not really know how effective it was. Never had an icing problem except the one time in Canada, and have never had an icing p roblem since then. The Bing carbs on the 912 series engines are not prone to icing problems. I do not consider icing up an idle jet, once, in more t han 2,500 912 hours a problem. Never heard of another 912 being put down b ecause of carb ice. The plumbing set caused wear on the K&N air filters and probably restricted airflow somewhat. There was also tghe chance of the soft aluminum tubing coiled around the air filters failing and losing coolant and creating a for ced landing situation. I don't have a carb ice problem in the high humidity environment I live in. I doubt you would ever have a problem in NM. Based on where, and the hours, I have flown the 912 engines, since 1994, I figure I don't need carb heat. john h mkIII - Getting ready for Monument Valley 2009. ;-) I'm curious: why didn't you want to keep that carb heat system on your 91 2? Dennis Kirby


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:44:34 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Brake lines
    At 03:31 PM 12/22/2008, robert bean wrote: >Considering this thread, I wondered why cars use glycol-based fluid >instead of a straight mineral oil. >It must have to do with early seal rubber longevity. The boiling >point difference between ATF and glycol can't be large. >Mineral would seem to be superior if only for the lack of hygroscopic quality. I don't know for sure, but perhaps for flammability issues? Oil could burn if it springs a leak on hot brake components? Pretty sure glycol isn't flammable. -Dana -- To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid


    Message 15


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:10:06 PM PST US
    From: ElleryWeld@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Brake lines
    Dennis I know that some Brake systems use ATF I was just pointing out that ATF and aircraft brake fluid 5606-A are both Red in color but not The same liquid Make sure you all use the correct Fluid for your system Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 12/22/2008 3:08:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, herbgh@nctc.com writes: the only trouble in using the "right Stuff" ; is ..that it can be and maybe , usually is, a generic product with "for aircraft use" written on it at 1 0 times the price....!! ....:-) frugal Herb At 01:38 PM 12/22/2008, you wrote: < < Aircraft Brake fluid is not transmission oil not anywhere near the same stuff just because it is red in color, Use the right fluid for manufacture recommendation with the brake system you have. Ellery >> Ellery, and Kolb Friends =93 Am happy to report that Matco Mfg (in Utah) recommends automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid for use in their brake systems. I know this because I called them and asked this very question. Many of our Kolbs have Matco bra kes, including mine. Being able to use ATF makes it convenient. Dennis Kirby Cedar Crest, NM Do not archive (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. m00000025)


    Message 16


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:24:00 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Propeller pitch
    From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc@aol.com>
    Rick, I'm not sure where you were getting your inaccuracies from but our method was very repeatable. To within 1/32" of pitch over a distance of more than 5 feet. That works out under .03 degrees of variance. Things to keep in mind. The plane needs to be on blocks so that it is in the exact same position from one blade to the next. The laser needs to be in the exact same place on each blade. The only way i know of doing that is with a fixture. Hence the fiberglass fixture. And obviously each blade needs to be in the same position, rotation wise or it all falls apart rather quickly. Measuring up from the floor to a small mark on the glass fixture worked well for us. I've not seen the Powerfin method but it may very well be better. I have seen the Warp protractor and was not impressed. -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220687#220687


    Message 17


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:27:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Propeller pitch
    From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc@aol.com>
    John, If you want to borrow ours you're more than welcome. If you would rather have one of you own i can probably find the time to make one up. Email me direct and we'll figure something out. John Hauck wrote: > > > Getting the pitch set exactly the same on all prop blades is very > > important. Here's how Paul and I did it. > > > -------- > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > > Hi Scott: > > Looks like a good idea. > > I have always set pitch on my Warp Drives with their protractor. However, > there is always a little bit of chance to not get each of the three blades > set exactly alike. It does make a lot of difference if all three blades are > set identically. > > I'd like to have a set up like that, something you could hang on the blade, > after leveling of course, and be able to set all three blades the same > without fear of not having the laser pointer in the same position. > > john h - 22F, up from 21F when I got up a few minutes ago. > mkIII -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220689#220689


    Message 18


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:32:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engine Installation
    From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc@AOL.COM>
    John, Do you find any debris or crud when you rinse out the oil tank? If so is there more when you burn 100LL? Thanks, John Hauck wrote: > > I pull my tank to change oil. This also gives me a chance to rinse the tank > out with gasoline, take it apart, and inspect the innards. > > john h > mkIII -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220690#220690




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   kolb-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
  • Browse Kolb-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --