Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:13 AM - Re: Old Engine (JetPilot)
2. 09:52 AM - Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing (Dale Whelan)
3. 03:41 PM - Instructing in a Kolb (gliderx5@comcast.net)
4. 03:41 PM - Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing (Richard Girard)
5. 03:49 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (Dana Hague)
6. 03:55 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (Richard Girard)
7. 05:13 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (gliderx5@comcast.net)
8. 05:44 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (Dana Hague)
9. 06:05 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (gliderx5@comcast.net)
10. 06:56 PM - Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing (Jack B. Hart)
11. 07:40 PM - Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing (Dana Hague)
Message 1
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The 12 HP Chrysler single cylinder is the engine I had on my first ultralight,
which was the first weight shift Eipper Quicksilver. Mine also had the dual
carbs into one cylinder and was advertised as 12 HP. My Eipper Quicksilver
with engine weighed around 150 pounds, 300 pounds total with me in it, and it
flew well. Stall was 17 MPH, Climb was 20 MPH, and cruise was about 22 MPH.
The engine was just enough to fly 300 pounds gross at around 20 MPH.
I seriously doubt this engine would be able to get a Kolb, or just about any other
faster / heavier ultralight to even break ground.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223699#223699
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Subject: | Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing |
I have read posts by other motorcycle mechanics and thought if they would just
shut up I may not look like I am dumb by association.
I have spent many years racing and tuning a two stroke Gran Prix road race motorcycle
equipped with ram air.
I am not formally educated, I read a lot and test alot both on dynos and at the
track.
I have some experiance that way be helpful and increase the safety of some experimenters.
SAFETY FIRST
If the veturi is pressurized without pressurizing the rest of the fuel system,
the fuel mixture will be leaned out!
The floatbowl vent need to be pressurized to avoid reducing the pressure difference
between the bowl and the venturi.
The tank needs to be pressurized to avoid reducing fuel delivery to the carb
from the increased bowl pressure.
PERFORMANCE
At the low speeds I fly my firestar at the increase in pressure is not likely
to be worth my effort as I need no more power to cruise at my desired speed.
I would need power for climb but the ram effect is lower at climb. I could use
more power at high altitude but here again I am not usually flying fast.
CONSIDERATIONS
Air inlet needs to be relativly small compared to tube feeding the airbox.
Venturi effect, volune increases velocity slows, pressure rises.
The airbox has a resonant frequency, some of the variables are, box volume,
inlet length, and inlet area. The box seems to have about as much effect as the
pressure.
PERSONALLY
If I were to modify my powerplant, (not sure I want to go throught the test
tune fail learn process with my plane) I would go after power, without increase
in RPM, and higher efficiency. POwer can be improved by reducing waste or by
processing more fuel.
My 503 could use more compression for the fuel I use, my friends looks like it
can't.
I would build an exhaust that put the torque peak at cruise RPM if I wanted
max fuel economy. The exhaust would be an expansion chamber, actually two of
them. The tune would need to be just broad enought to cover the RPM range from
cruise to climb. The ram air system would be simple, mount the carbs inside the
airbox and vent the tanks to the airbox if I were to ram air the motor. I would
rather just have the airbox.
For me there are are aerodynamic considerations to offset some of the improved
motor efficiency, but I would expect a net gain. The thing that concearns
me the most is the addition of parts ahead of the prop, welded and designed by
me.
I would recomend becoming an expert in jetting and timing before attempting
this kind of work, I expect some of you are.
SIDE NOTE
I have heard many say that jetting a plane is different than a motorcycle,
When people say that to me I doubt they know how to tune either.
Dale Whelan
dalewhelan@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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Subject: | Instructing in a Kolb |
I'm trying to interpret the FARs for training in an experimental amateur built
airplane that I own (ie. my Kolb MKII)
91.319 states (a) that I cannot carry persons for compensation or hire - which
I believe means just that - passengers.
(e) that I cannot operate the aircraft for compensation except to conduct flight
training (c) in an aircraft that I provide prior to 1/31/2010.
(f) That I can lease the Kolb for instruction until 1/31/2010.
It looks like
- I can be paid for instruction in my Kolb only until 1/31/2010
- I can lease my Kolb for instruction only until 1/31/2010
- I cannot be paid for instruction in a Kolb that the student provides anytime
- I can give free instruction in my Kolb or the students Kolb anytime
Does this sound right?
Malcolm Morrison
MKII
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing |
Dale, Glad you brought all this up. Going to lunch after the Bing carb
section of the Rotax mechanic courses at Lockwood, I asked Rotax guru Eric
Tucker about my plans to build ram air into the cowling of my 582 powered Mk
III. I covered pretty much everything you brought up and his advice was
don't do it. The Bing is designed for ambient pressure and the design isn't
conducive to ram air even if you do take all this into account. He's been
working on Rotax engines for 40+ years since his snowmobile racing days so I
figure he might know. Still, it's experimental aviation and as they say,
one good experiment beats a thousand expert opinions.
Good luck, Jack
Rick
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Dale Whelan <dalewhelan@earthlink.net>wrote:
> I have read posts by other motorcycle mechanics and thought if they would
> just shut up I may not look like I am dumb by association.
> I have spent many years racing and tuning a two stroke Gran Prix road race
> motorcycle equipped with ram air.
> I am not formally educated, I read a lot and test alot both on dynos and at
> the track.
> I have some experiance that way be helpful and increase the safety of some
> experimenters.
>
> SAFETY FIRST
> If the veturi is pressurized without pressurizing the rest of the fuel
> system, the fuel mixture will be leaned out!
> The floatbowl vent need to be pressurized to avoid reducing the
> pressure difference between the bowl and the venturi.
> The tank needs to be pressurized to avoid reducing fuel delivery to the
> carb from the increased bowl pressure.
>
> PERFORMANCE
> At the low speeds I fly my firestar at the increase in pressure is not
> likely to be worth my effort as I need no more power to cruise at my desired
> speed. I would need power for climb but the ram effect is lower at climb. I
> could use more power at high altitude but here again I am not usually flying
> fast.
>
> CONSIDERATIONS
> Air inlet needs to be relativly small compared to tube feeding the
> airbox. Venturi effect, volune increases velocity slows, pressure rises.
> The airbox has a resonant frequency, some of the variables are, box
> volume, inlet length, and inlet area. The box seems to have about as much
> effect as the pressure.
>
> PERSONALLY
> If I were to modify my powerplant, (not sure I want to go throught the
> test tune fail learn process with my plane) I would go after power, without
> increase in RPM, and higher efficiency. POwer can be improved by reducing
> waste or by processing more fuel.
> My 503 could use more compression for the fuel I use, my friends looks like
> it can't.
> I would build an exhaust that put the torque peak at cruise RPM if I
> wanted max fuel economy. The exhaust would be an expansion chamber, actually
> two of them. The tune would need to be just broad enought to cover the RPM
> range from cruise to climb. The ram air system would be simple, mount the
> carbs inside the airbox and vent the tanks to the airbox if I were to ram
> air the motor. I would rather just have the airbox.
> For me there are are aerodynamic considerations to offset some of the
> improved motor efficiency, but I would expect a net gain. The thing that
> concearns me the most is the addition of parts ahead of the prop, welded and
> designed by me.
> I would recomend becoming an expert in jetting and timing before
> attempting this kind of work, I expect some of you are.
>
> SIDE NOTE
> I have heard many say that jetting a plane is different than a
> motorcycle, When people say that to me I doubt they know how to tune either.
>
>
> Dale Whelan
> dalewhelan@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Instructing in a Kolb |
At 06:40 PM 1/9/2009, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote:
>It looks like
>- I can be paid for instruction in my Kolb only until 1/31/2010
>- I can lease my Kolb for instruction only until 1/31/2010
>- I cannot be paid for instruction in a Kolb that the student provides anytime
>- I can give free instruction in my Kolb or the students Kolb anytime
>
>Does this sound right?
Except for #3, I believe... I'm pretty sure it's always been legal for one
to hire a flight instructor to provide instruction in one's own airplane...
since the owner of the aircraft is not receiving any compensation for the
use of the aircraft.
-Dana
--
(A)bort, (R)etry, (P)retend it didn't happen?
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Subject: | Re: Instructing in a Kolb |
Malcolm, I,2,and 4 are correct, but for E-LSA, not E-AB. You can be paid for
your instruction in a plane the student provides.
Rick
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:40 PM, <gliderx5@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm trying to interpret the FARs for training in an experimental amateur
> built airplane that I own (ie. my Kolb MKII)
> 91.319 states (a) that I cannot carry persons for compensation or hire -
> which I believe means just that - passengers.
> (e) that I cannot operate the aircraft for compensation except to conduct
> flight training (c) in an aircraft that I provide prior to 1/31/2010.
> (f) That I can lease the Kolb for instruction until 1/31/2010.
>
> It looks like
> - I can be paid for instruction in my Kolb only until 1/31/2010
> - I can lease my Kolb for instruction only until 1/31/2010
> - I cannot be paid for instruction in a Kolb that the student provides
> anytime
> - I can give free instruction in my Kolb or the students Kolb anytime
>
> Does this sound right?
>
> Malcolm Morrison
> MKII
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Instructing in a Kolb |
Dana
I agree. I always thought that the instructor could be paid if the student provided
the experimental airplane, but I just can't figure out how 91.319 says that
this is true. Paragraph (e) seems clear that no person may operate an experimental
aircraft for compensation except (2) to conduct flight training in an
aircraft which that person provides, prior to 1/31/2010. There is no exclusion
for an aircraft that the student provides. This is counter to what I had always
thought. Also, I misread the FAR when I created my second conclusion earlier.
Leasing only applies to aircraft being used for towing gliders, so not for
flight instruction.
Malcolm Morrison
MKII
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Hague" <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 6:47:51 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instructing in a Kolb
At 06:40 PM 1/9/2009, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote:
>It looks like
>- I can be paid for instruction in my Kolb only until 1/31/2010
>- I can lease my Kolb for instruction only until 1/31/2010
>- I cannot be paid for instruction in a Kolb that the student provides anytime
>- I can give free instruction in my Kolb or the students Kolb anytime
>
>Does this sound right?
Except for #3, I believe... I'm pretty sure it's always been legal for one
to hire a flight instructor to provide instruction in one's own airplane...
since the owner of the aircraft is not receiving any compensation for the
use of the aircraft.
-Dana
--
(A)bort, (R)etry, (P)retend it didn't happen?
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Instructing in a Kolb |
At 08:12 PM 1/9/2009, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote:
>Dana
>
>I agree. I always thought that the instructor could be paid if the
>student provided the experimental airplane, but I just can't figure out
>how 91.319 says that this is true. Paragraph (e) seems clear that no
>person may operate an experimental aircraft for compensation except (2) to
>conduct flight training in an aircraft which that person provides, prior
>to 1/31/2010. There is no exclusion for an aircraft that the student
>provides. This is counter to what I had always thought. Also, I misread
>the FAR when I created my second conclusion earlier. Leasing only applies
>to aircraft being used for towing gliders, so not for flight instruction.
91.319(e) refers to 21.191(i) only applies to E-LSA, i.e. E-LSA kits or
aircraft converted to E-LSA from fat ultralights, but not to E-AB
aircraft. E-AB aircraft fall under 91.313(a)(2), which says you can't
carry persons or property for compensation or hire (which doesn't include
flight instruction), as opposed to the more broad 91.319(e) which only
covers all aspects of "operating for compensation or hire".
So, a converted E-LSA Kolb can be used for paid instruction, whether it's
owned by the student or the instructor, until 2010. If it's E-AB, it can
be used for paid instruction only if the student owns it, and that's true
forever (or until the FAA changes the rules).
-Dana
--
Friends help you move. *Real* friends help you move bodies.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Instructing in a Kolb |
Dana
Thanks. That clears up the confusion. I hate FARs
Malcolm Morrison
MKII
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Hague" <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 8:41:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instructing in a Kolb
At 08:12 PM 1/9/2009, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote:
Dana
I agree. I always thought that the instructor could be paid if the student provided
the experimental airplane, but I just can't figure out how 91.319 says that
this is true. Paragraph (e) seems clear that no person may operate an experimental
aircraft for compensation except (2) to conduct flight training in an
aircraft which that person provides, prior to 1/31/2010. There is no exclusion
for an aircraft that the student provides. This is counter to what I had always
thought. Also, I misread the FAR when I created my second conclusion earlier.
Leasing only applies to aircraft being used for towing gliders, so not for
flight instruction.
91.319(e) refers to 21.191(i) only applies to E-LSA, i.e. E-LSA kits or aircraft
converted to E-LSA from fat ultralights, but not to E-AB aircraft. E-AB aircraft
fall under 91.313(a)(2), which says you can't carry persons or property for
compensation or hire (which doesn't include flight instruction), as opposed
to the more broad 91.319(e) which only covers all aspects of "operating for compensation
or hire".
So, a converted E-LSA Kolb can be used for paid instruction, whether it's owned
by the student or the instructor, until 2010. If it's E-AB, it can be used for
paid instruction only if the student owns it, and that's true forever (or until
the FAA changes the rules).
-Dana
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing |
Dale & Rick,
First of all, if my air fuel mixture control had not been effective, I would
not be trying this. Also, if I did not have an EGT sensor and gage, I would
have to tune just as the snowmobiler and the motorcyclist do. Although I do
not motorcycle or snowmobile, I believe it may be impractical to monitor EGT
while riding either one. I assume one needs to maintain a high degree of
diligence on the immediate surroundings. This is similar to landing,
takeoff and taxiing an ultra light. But once in the air a pilot can devote
some time to monitoring an EGT as well as looking out side the cockpit.
Also, it is not easy to ground adjust for the current local atmospheric
conditions when one wants to go for a ride in/on any of these vehicles.
It amazes me that Rotax, who manufactures aircraft engines, has not picked a
carburetor that was cockpit adjustable. This short coming ensures that
these engines run richer than necessary. My Bing conversion may not be the
solution. I have only 13 and one-half hours on it. I am very encouraged.
If you have not see the conversion, it can be found at:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly146.html
........
Dale,
Yes, as the air density is increased, the air fuel mixture will move toward
the lean side. I really have no idea of the dynamic air pressure at the
carburetor. But assuming the FireFly is moving at 50 mph IAS and to
overcome the drag the air passing through the propeller is 100 mph, the
dynamic pressure will 4.73 inches of water. I am assuming my system will be
able to accommodate this pressure increase.
The first flight will be made with the housing rotated vertical, so that,
the carburetor is operating at it's normal static pressure. Carburetor
inlet static pressure will be measured to establish base line data. On the
next fight the housing will be rotated about thirty degrees from vertical.
Hopefully I will see an increase in carburetor inlet static pressure over
the whole cruise rpm range. And again hopefully, I will be able to maintain
acceptable EGT over the entire range. If that can not be done, the needle
will have to be lifted. This process will be repeated until the housing is
pointed directly forward.
This is how I foresee it, but it all has to wait until warmer weather. If I
see an increase in carburetor inlet static pressure, I would expect the
engine to top out at a higher rpm, which will let me add a little more pitch
in the propeller, and give me a little better climb rate.
My air fuel mixture control is based on varying the pressure over the float
bowl. So far it has not caused any problems. At this time I can only hope
it will accommodate the housing dynamic pressures.
Pressurizing the tank is a good idea. The fuel pump has to lift fuel quite
a distance on FireFly.
No argument about jetting.
I keep hoping the weather will break.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
---------------------------------
From: "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Dale, Glad you brought all this up. Going to lunch after the Bing carb section
of the Rotax mechanic courses at Lockwood, I asked Rotax guru Eric Tucker about
my plans to build ram air into the cowling of my 582 powered Mk III. I covered
pretty much everything you brought up and his advice was don't do it. The Bing
is designed for ambient pressure and the design isn't conducive to ram air
even if you do take all this into account. He's been working on Rotax engines
for 40+ years since his snowmobile racing days so I figure he might know.
Still, it's experimental aviation and as they say, one good experiment beats a
thousand expert opinions.
--------------------------------
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Dale Whelan <dalewhelan@earthlink.net> wrote:
SAFETY FIRST
If the veturi is pressurized without pressurizing the rest of the fuel system,
the fuel mixture will be leaned out!
The floatbowl vent need to be pressurized to avoid reducing the pressure difference
between the bowl and the venturi.
The tank needs to be pressurized to avoid reducing fuel delivery to the carb
from the increased bowl pressure.
SIDE NOTE
I have heard many say that jetting a plane is different than a motorcycle,
When people say that to me I doubt they know how to tune either.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing |
At 09:57 PM 1/9/2009, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>...Although I do
>not motorcycle or snowmobile, I believe it may be impractical to monitor EGT
>while riding either one. I assume one needs to maintain a high degree of
>diligence on the immediate surroundings...
More to the point, I think, is that you can't do an extended full power
runup while a snowmobile is standing still; indeed I imagine you rarely are
at full power for more than a few moments at a time.
-Dana
--
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys
to teenage boys.
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