---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/16/09: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:22 AM - Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes (planecrazzzy) 2. 04:14 AM - Re: Landing gear (william sullivan) 3. 04:29 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (Dana Hague) 4. 05:00 AM - Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes (zeprep251@aol.com) 5. 05:02 AM - Fuselage fabric fix (Richard Girard) 6. 06:01 AM - Re: Weather (Eugene Zimmerman) 7. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (John Hauck) 8. 07:19 AM - Little Luxuries (planecrazzzy) 9. 08:40 AM - nosecone (william sullivan) 10. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (Dana Hague) 11. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (John Hauck) 12. 10:37 AM - Re: Landing gear (william sullivan) 13. 10:40 AM - Re: Weather (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 14. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (herb) 15. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (John Hauck) 16. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (herb) 17. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Landing gear (John Hauck) 18. 12:40 PM - Re: HKS flight (pj.ladd) 19. 01:00 PM - Re: HKS flight (John Hauck) 20. 01:03 PM - Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes (boyd) 21. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear (Dana Hague) 22. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear (Dana Hague) 23. 02:42 PM - Re: HKS flight (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 24. 03:08 PM - Re: Landing gear (william sullivan) 25. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear (Dana Hague) 26. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: Landing gear (Dana Hague) 27. 07:26 PM - Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes (cristalclear13) 28. 10:32 PM - Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes (The BaronVonEvil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:25 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes From: "planecrazzzy" I agree with Bob, Looks like oil... One way to get the tape in place... Do like Bob said... Get a piece of venetion blind... put the tape on it slightly ...use it to get between the tube and fabric and pull the tape in place... Usually chaffing tapes are put on places before fabric is attached... But where your showing....Wouldn't get chaffing tape... Gotta Fly... .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225050#225050 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:01 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear - John and Jim- Thanks for the feedback.- It was just that old message (I had saved it) that caused the confusion.- I have 3 sets of the old 1" legs (all bent) that came with it- one set is 6061, bent while taxiing.- -I have the old type axle fitting, 3/4" socket and a 5/8" tube for an axl e.- I intend to re-fit with brakes, so changes have to be made. - While I'm digging in your memories of that old Firestar- What kind of e mpennage attachment was on it?- Mine doesn't match any photos I have been able to find.- The lower "skeg" end has two pieces of steel tubing going forward into the fuselage, and no exterior supporting ring.- Old style? - 2 below zero at 7am, and where is the global warming they have been promisi ng? - ------------------------- ------------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. - - ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:53 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear At 07:13 AM 1/16/2009, william sullivan wrote: > While I'm digging in your memories of that old Firestar- What kind of > empennage attachment was on it? Mine doesn't match any photos I have > been able to find. The lower "skeg" end has two pieces of steel tubing > going forward into the fuselage, and no exterior supporting ring. Old style? I don't know about the FS, new or old, but that's how the US is built. > 2 below zero at 7am, and where is the global warming they have been > promising? Yeah, I have to leave the water dripping all night to keep the pipes from freezing. But haven't you heard? It's not "global warming" any more, it's "climate change". That way they can say they're right no matter what the climate does. The scientists are all abandoning the global warming thing like rats fleeing a sinking ship, leaving only the brain dead or corrupt politicians on board -Dana -- Chaste: why virgins run. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fabric rubbing on cage tubes From: zeprep251@aol.com Where in the cockpit cage does Kolb use aluminum? -----Original Message----- From: robert bean Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:54 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fabric rubbing on cage tubes ? the fact that you know what fretting corrosion is impresses me. Are you sure it is only a? metallic substance and not oil? I would go with the packing tape suggestion if you can? get it in there, otherwise maybe one of those skinny venetian blind slats?? BB? ? On 15, Jan 2009, at 10:50 PM, cristalclear13 wrote:? ? >? > Have any of you ever seen anything similar to what I have attached > here in the photos?? > I am getting some fretting corrosion where the fabric is tight > against the aluminum tubes on the cockpit cage.? > I've received two suggestions...one to put some thin adhesive-> backed weatherstripping between the tubes and fabric...another to > use some clear duct tape on the tube to keep the fabric from > rubbing it.? > Keep in mind the fabric is really tight and I don't think I'll be > able to easily get much of anything between the tubes and the fabric.? >? > When you build these planes is there any instruction to put > anything between the tubes and fabric?? >? > --------? > Cristal Waters? > Kolb Mark II Twinstar? > Rotax 503 DCSI? >? >? >? >? > Read this topic online here:? >? > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225022#225022? >? >? >? >? > Attachments:? >? > http://forums.matronics.com//files/> 2008_12_20_cage_tubing_next_to_fabric_581.jpg? > http://forums.matronics.com//files/> 2008_12_20_cage_tubing_next_to_fabric2_840.jpg? > http://forums.matronics.com//files/> 2008_12_20_black_oily_substance_leaking_through_fabric_923.jpg? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? ? ? ? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:29 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Kolb-List: Fuselage fabric fix Once you know what's causing this, loose tubes, oil contamination, whatever, and you know what your covering and finishing system is, consider this:Assuming Poly Fiber system and a Poly Tone top finish (if you have Aerothane, this won't work) 1. Use MEK to remove finish all the way down to bare fabric 2" either side of tube. 2. Examine fabric to insure it has not started to fray. 3. If unfrayed, follow instructions for round ribs, no rib stitching, use rivets or screws and possibly a cover strip of light gauge aluminum over fabric and rib. 4. If frayed, put down a pinked edge reinforcing tape first then finish as 3. Hope this helps. Rick ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:48 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weather Ellery, You could move to Alaska. It was warmer in Barrows. Gene On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:30 PM, ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote: > -22 this evening and expected to go lower > Maine the way life should be, Who's idea is this any way? > > Ellery in Maine > do not archive > > > Shivering at 58F this morning in SW FL. > George Alexander > > > A Good Credit Scor5013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62 > "> See yours in just 2 easy steps! > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:42 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear Bill: I think you are referring to the tail post attachment. That is the way it was done on early Firestars. No exterior ring. On my Ultrastar, the inboard rib attached to the main spar with two tubes i nserted into the spar. This was a poor method of attachment because it all owed the wing to twist. Aileron input was counteracted by wing twist. One had to be very gentle with ailerons. The Ultrastar was not the only aircraft with wing twist problems. One of m y old Air Force buddies flew B-47's. That aircraft had the same problem as the Ultrastar. john h mkIII - 17F at hauck's holler While I'm digging in your memories of that old Firestar- What kin d of empennage attachment was on it? Mine doesn't match any photos I have been able to find. The lower "skeg" end has two pieces of steel tubing goi ng forward into the fuselage, and no exterior supporting ring. Old style? 2 below zero at 7am, and where is the global warming they have been promising? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, C t. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Little Luxuries From: "planecrazzzy" I have a few improvements I've added to my plane... Like "Lumbar Support" ...comes in handy for long flights and Engine turning to hide scratches in the floor pan... Full enclosure for my FSII ( not done yet ) Changing the Cable "Hoops" to follow the landing gear and other ideas also.... http://wingsforum.com/viewforum.php?f=180 You might need to log in ??? Maybe not... Alot of pictures... little writing Just thought I'd post it... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dog .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225094#225094 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:34 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: nosecone - I have been repairing the fiberglass nosecone, and ran into a problem a nd a solution.- Once I pieced the nosecone back together, it was 1/2" too wide where it was supposed to be bolted through the upper tube.- If I bo lted it on it could be pulled into place, but I thought it would be likely to crack under vibration.- When pulled in, it measured 17" on the outside at that point.- I placed it panel down on a piece of wood, and screwed 2 blocks spaced 17" apart to hold it in position.- I took a heat gun and w armed up the area thoroughly to stress relieve it.- When it cooled, it re tained the 17" dimension.- It worked great, and only took 5 minutes.- J ust passing along the tip. - ------------------------- ----------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ----------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. 16 degrees and clear, no wind at 11:40am ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:23 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear At 10:04 AM 1/16/2009, John Hauck wrote: > >On my Ultrastar, the inboard rib attached to the main spar with two tubes >inserted into the spar. This was a poor method of attachment because it >allowed the wing to twist. Aileron input was counteracted by wing >twist. One had to be very gentle with ailerons. John, did you ever do the mod (I think it was Richard Swiderski who posted details on it) to add the collar on the wing root? It's tempting, but a bit of work, and I wonder how much improvement it would actually make. -Dana -- Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors-- and miss. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:51 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear Dana: No, we did not make that change. Would have been easier to build new wings with an updated inboard rib. Also, the improvements of the original FS over most of the problems with th e US out weighed any decision to put more time and money in the US. The US had a lot of little problems and was easy to bend things. The FS also had problems in some of the same areas. Winter of 1988 and 89, Jim and I completely overhauled and modified my FS. A lot of the initial problems were solved by Jim adding a couple additional tubes here and there. john h mkIII John, did you ever do the mod (I think it was Richard Swiderski who post ed details on it) to add the collar on the wing root? It's tempting, but a bit of work, and I wonder how much improvement it would actually make. -Dana ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:50 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear Dana- Has yours been fixed? - ------------------------- ------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:44 AM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weather it got down to -29 BELOW this morning I would like to move there at least the fishing & Hunting would be much better Ellery do not archive In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:02:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ez@embarqmail.com writes: Ellery, You could move to Alaska. It was warmer in Barrows. Gene On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:30 PM, _ElleryWeld@aol.com_ (mailto:ElleryWeld@aol.com) wrote: -22 this evening and expected to go lower Maine the way life should be, Who's idea is this any way? Ellery in Maine do not archive Shivering at 58F this morning in SW FL. George Alexander ____________________________________ A Good Credit Scor5013x1201028747/aol?redir=_http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62_ (http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=DecemailfooterNO62) "> See yours in just 2 easy steps! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:52 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear John Coming from you...those "here and there tubes" sound important...can you embellish? Also Dana and John...I am planning to use a set of modified ultra star root ribs on my Firefly/Firestar /ultrastar Tri Fly hybrid...:-) Is the US "h" section sort of root attachment to spar considered to be inferior...Looks plenty strong to me. Herb At 12:35 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote: >Dana: > >No, we did not make that change. Would have been easier to build >new wings with an updated inboard rib. > >Also, the improvements of the original FS over most of the problems >with the US out weighed any decision to put more time and money in the US. > >The US had a lot of little problems and was easy to bend things. > >The FS also had problems in some of the same areas. Winter of 1988 >and 89, Jim and I completely overhauled and modified my FS. A lot >of the initial problems were solved by Jim adding a couple >additional tubes here and there. > >john h >mkIII > > > John, did you ever do the mod (I think it was Richard Swiderski > who posted details on it) to add the collar on the wing root? It's > tempting, but a bit of work, and I wonder how much improvement it > would actually make. > >-Dana > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:23 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear Herb: The original method of attaching inboard rib to main spar on the US was les s than desireable. It allowed the wing to twist when ailerons were operate d, effectively canceling out aileron input. That is why Homer came up with the collar for attaching main spar and also tail post. Light aileron load s worked pretty good, but if you had to get a little heavy handed, the more aileron applied the more the wing would twist. Scared hell out of me firs t time I got into that situation. I was used to flying helicopters. When I gave them cyclic input the helicopter responded immediately. Brand new t o airplanes and especially the Ultrastar, I dove on my house, pulled up and tried to do a big wing over, but the more aileron I put in the more the wi ng twisted and I ended up effectively wings level. Had a lot to learn abou t these little airplanes. john h mkIII Also Dana and John...I am planning to use a set of modified ultra sta r root ribs on my Firefly/Firestar /ultrastar Tri Fly hybrid...:-) Is the US "h" section sort of root attachment to spar considered to be inferior... Looks plenty strong to me. Herb ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:11 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear Brings up 'nuther question...Did you have the braces on the drag spar? Also wondering if my 24 foot wing span will be as susceptible to the twist? Logically it would not.. Thanks Either way..I will make the collar...or hook a couple out of Travis! :-) Herb At 01:06 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote: >Herb: > >The original method of attaching inboard rib to main spar on the US >was less than desireable. It allowed the wing to twist when >ailerons were operated, effectively canceling out aileron >input. That is why Homer came up with the collar for attaching main >spar and also tail post. Light aileron loads worked pretty good, >but if you had to get a little heavy handed, the more aileron >applied the more the wing would twist. Scared hell out of me first >time I got into that situation. I was used to flying >helicopters. When I gave them cyclic input the helicopter responded >immediately. Brand new to airplanes and especially the Ultrastar, I >dove on my house, pulled up and tried to do a big wing over, but the >more aileron I put in the more the wing twisted and I ended up >effectively wings level. Had a lot to learn about these little airplanes. > >john h >mkIII > > > Also Dana and John...I am planning to use a set of modified > ultra star root ribs on my Firefly/Firestar /ultrastar Tri > Fly hybrid...:-) Is the US "h" section sort of root attachment to > spar considered to be inferior...Looks plenty strong to me. Herb > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:24 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear Herb: Fortunately, I was in the process of building my US wings when Dennis Soude r broke the factory US. Yes, I got the drag strut braces and insured they were installed correctly. john h mkIII Brings up 'nuther question...Did you have the braces on the drag spar? Also wondering if my 24 foot wing span will be as susceptible to the twis t? Logically it would not.. Herb ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:47 PM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS flight That was the altitude above Sea Level that I was flying>> Hi, Thanks, I assumed that must be the case. Here the country is divided into 3 Areas with their own barometric pressure and that is applicable above 3000 feet. This means that everyone on a X country can set 3500 confident that you dont run into someone who is on a different setting. Airfields which are manned will give landing instructions including pressure when asked. Larger ones broadcast ATIS. Most microlighters fly from farmers to farmers field and you must rely on heights given on your chart and adjust your pressure to fit. Thanks Pat ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:12 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS flight Patrick: Over here, USA, our sectional charts are based on elevation above sea level. Common practice to set field elevation before takeoff, updating during flig ht when altimeter settings are available. Only time I ever fly from a field with zero set in the altimeter is at Oshk osh and Lakeland. For some reason the powers to be (the guys wearing the o range vest) decided we could better keep up with our altitude above ground that way, since we fly in a very tight box with other traffic patterns righ t on top of us. At home field and everywhere else, I set field elevation. john h mkIII rent setting. Airfields which are manned will give landing instructions including press ure when asked. Larger ones broadcast ATIS. Most microlighters fly from farmers to farmers field and you must rely on heights given on your chart and adjust your pressure to fit. Pat ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:33 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: fabric rubbing on cage tubes > Have any of you ever seen anything similar to what I have attached > here in the photos? > I am getting some fretting corrosion where the fabric is tight > against the aluminum tubes on the cockpit cage. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Has the rubbing of the fabric rubbed off the primer paint on the tube? Boyd Young MkIIIC ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:26 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear At 01:37 PM 1/16/2009, william sullivan wrote: >Dana- Has yours been fixed? Fixed what? -Dana do not archive -- Aviation is like drugs: You go up, then you come down. You are out a big pile of money and have nothing to show for it but the experience. And you can't wait to do it again. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:42 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear At 01:55 PM 1/16/2009, herb wrote: > Also Dana and John...I am planning to use a set of modified ultra star > root ribs on my Firefly/Firestar /ultrastar Tri Fly hybrid...:-) Is the > US "h" section sort of root attachment to spar considered to be > inferior...Looks plenty strong to me. It's strong enough, but it (apparently) doesn't provide sufficient resistance to twisting. One solution is described here: http://tinyurl.com/ultrastar-wing-spar-collar I haven't done this mod on my plane (yet), I want to look at it and maybe come up with a simpler solution. -Dana -- Aviation is like drugs: You go up, then you come down. You are out a big pile of money and have nothing to show for it but the experience. And you can't wait to do it again. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:11 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS flight From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" R.Neilsen wrote: << There are a number of good engines out there as Rotax alternatives. ... Tell us about your Non-Rotax engines on your Kolb. >> Avoid the Verner. Dennis Kirby Mark-III, 912ul (formerly Verner-1400 powered) Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:01 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear Dana- I was asking if you had made the wing root modification on your US. - I seem to remember this discussion from about a year ago. - I checked the Firestar wings, and they have the "ring" mount that John described.- The tail has the-twin tubes-instead of the ring, so this thing looks to have been built fairly early. - ------------------------- ------------ Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------ Windsor Locks, Ct. 11 degrees and going down, at 6pm ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:17 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear At 06:07 PM 1/16/2009, william sullivan wrote: >Dana- I was asking if you had made the wing root modification on your >US. I seem to remember this discussion from about a year ago. > I checked the Firestar wings, and they have the "ring" mount that John > described. The tail has the twin tubes instead of the ring, so this > thing looks to have been built fairly early. No, no ring on mine. I can visibly see the wing twist if I use full aileron at speed. The tail attachment should be fine as is, but the wing root is a good thing to have. -Dana -- When authorities warn you of the sinfulness of sex, there is an important lesson to be learned. Do not have sex with the authorities. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:17 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Landing gear At 06:07 PM 1/16/2009, william sullivan wrote: >Dana- I was asking if you had made the wing root modification on your >US. I seem to remember this discussion from about a year ago. > I checked the Firestar wings, and they have the "ring" mount that John > described. The tail has the twin tubes instead of the ring, so this > thing looks to have been built fairly early. No, no ring on mine. I can visibly see the wing twist if I use full aileron at speed. The tail attachment should be fine as is, but the wing root is a good thing to have. -Dana -- When authorities warn you of the sinfulness of sex, there is an important lesson to be learned. Do not have sex with the authorities. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:02 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes From: "cristalclear13" Boyd, It doesn't appear that any paint (or primer) was applied to these tubes...I didn't build this plane...bought it used. Mike (planecrazzzy), If the chafing tape doesn't go here, where would it go? Mike and Bob, If the fabric is rubbing with the tube it can cause bits of aluminum to come loose and oxidize and cause more abrasion. When the aluminum oxide mixes with EITHER water or oil it makes an oily-looking substance. I mix my gas and oil so it's not like I have an oil leak and especially not there. The condensation inside the cage or perhaps even from the inside of the steel tubing coming out where it runs into the aluminum tubing could add water to the mix. Bob, don't be impressed...I just listened closely in Mike Huffman's repairman class. Carlos, I will check for looseness. Is that what most people do...glue the fabric to the tubes? I will check tomorrow (if I can brave the cold South Georgia weather). Mine may have been glued originally and maybe the glue has deteriorated. zeprep251(at)aol.com (name?), 12.584% of my cage is AL. (see attachment) [Wink] [Wink] -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225219#225219 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/12584percent_119.bmp ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:33 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes From: "The BaronVonEvil" Hi Cristal, The way the fabric is attached to the fuselage depends upon the designer/ manufacturer of the aircraft and the fabric makers finishing system. For Polyfiber the fabric is usually glued to the primary edges of the fuselage and shrunk down to a final tension. Then comes the sealer(Polybrush) that penetrates the fabric and will stick to tubes that the fabric is bearing against. If the fabric is in the propblast, depending upon the designer/manufacturer, the fabric maybe reinforced with a ribbon type tape, then stitches are used to mechanically attach the fabric to the tubes, and a extra layer of fabric tape is placed over the stitches and more Polybrush is applied to seal everything up. This is just a brief explanation and the fabric supplier's books, the A/C manufacturer manuals should be followed to assure a correct installation any covering. Also Advisory Circular 43-13 ( actually a book) is a good reference for fabric installation and many types of aircraft structural repairs too. If the aluminum tubes are secure, then I would suspect that the fabric installation wasn't done properly. I would suggest that you ask someone at your airport who has done fabric work or an A & P Mechanic to inspect the fabric of your plane to see what your specific problems are. If you were nearby, I would be more that happy to help you out but Georgia is a wee-bit far from Washington state. Doing a fabric job isn't hard and can be somewhat fun. I use the PolyFiber process myself. It just takes a little patience and careful work to do a good covering job. I am always looking at fabric covered aircraft to see how it has been done. I like to study how little problem areas (around windows, edges, fittings sticking out, etc.) are executed to learn from others possible solutions and mistakes too. Let us know what you find. Best Regards Carlos G. 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