Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:10 AM - Re: HKS - Slingshot (Ted Cowan)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: Re: HKS - Slingshot (Dana Hague)
3. 04:35 AM - Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot (Dana Hague)
4. 05:28 AM - Re: C90 Brakes (Rick Lewis)
5. 05:54 AM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (grantr)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (dalewhelan)
7. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Any Kolbers on Facebook? (russ kinne)
8. 08:19 AM - Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot (robcannon)
9. 08:30 AM - Arizona flyers? (dalewhelan)
10. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (robert bean)
11. 09:07 AM - Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot (Jimmy Young)
12. 09:50 AM - HKS - Slingshot, Acceptable Center of Gravity range (Raymond, Kevin)
13. 10:20 AM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (grantr)
14. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (John Hauck)
15. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (TheWanderingWench)
16. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (Robert Laird)
17. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (robert bean)
18. 03:52 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (gliderx5@comcast.net)
19. 04:00 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (Dana Hague)
20. 09:41 PM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (dalewhelan)
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Subject: | Re: HKS - Slingshot |
To answer Kevin about his slingshot with an HKS engine is a tuff one. I
have over four hundred hours on my slingshot. Started with a 582 which
pushed it quite well. Worried a bunch about it being 'tail heavy'. Got
news for you, the slingshot seems tail heavy all the time. Pick up the boom
once and you will see. It wants to plant its butt down first unless you
really come in hot. Three point is what it really likes. Faster if there
is a cross wind although I find that putting its feet down quickly and
slowly is best on asphalt. I put a 912UL on my baby a couple of years ago
and really worried about aft CG but the engine actually moved it forward a
tad. It added about thirty five pounds to my mount but it actually lands
better now. I think the 912 shifts some of the weight forward vs the 582.
Dont know what an HKS will do. I suppose it is a lot lighter than a 912 or
582. Anyway, I know the 912 is heavier and I have not had any problem so
far and as I stated, it actually lands better -- and slower for some reason.
One thing I will mention is I believe, and this is only me, that 60 little
ponies might be a little shy for this good ole slingshot. This aircraft is
built for zoom zoom and it really likes the extra doggies back there. I
have heard of a 503 powered one and that was really a dog and the guy did
not like it. Cannot imagine such low power. Little wings need big horsies
back there pushing. This is only my opinion of course. You may be one that
likes a more mild ride but I would caution you with passengers. It takes a
lot more doggies pushing when you have a passenger or a heavy load back
there in the seat. My 582 had to push real hard if I were to give a ride.
Still handled it well but took a lot more to do it. Even the 912 doubles
the take-off distance with 150 lbs back in the seat. You also have to add
about 10 more mph on landing and full flapperons. Now, these are all just
my opinion. By the way, with the 582 I got about 5 to 5 and a half gph burn
at 75 and with the 912 I get 3 gph burn at 85 mph. THAT is savings AND fun.
Hope this helped. It is worth what you paid for it. Be mindful of your
airspeed on turns, keep the power on. This little baby like to bank real
tight. Have fun and let us know how it flys. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot
912UL.
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Subject: | Re: HKS - Slingshot |
At 07:09 AM 1/20/2009, Ted Cowan wrote:
>
>...the slingshot seems tail heavy all the time. Pick up the boom once and
>you will see...
That doesn't mean it's tail heavy in an aerodynamic sense (relative to the
wing), just that the CG is well aft of the main landing gear.
-Dana
--
People will accept your ideas much more readily if you tell them that
Benjamin Franklin said it first.
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Subject: | Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
At 01:09 PM 1/19/2009, Raymond, Kevin wrote:
>...I know what my plans say is the acceptable range (20 - 37% mean
>aerodynamic chord), and I also just attended the EAA's workshop for safely
>testing flying your project, and I know what they define as an acceptable
>range (18 - 34% Mean aerodynamic chord)....My aircraft is currently set up
>to be near the back end of the EAA general aircraft range, and I have
>heard a CQ that is pretty aft in the range is fairly typical for
>Kolb's. I am well aware the aft limit is death if you exceed it...
The 18-34% you got from the EAA is a general rule of thumb; in all cases
you should use what the manufacturer
(Kolb) recommends.
When a manufacturer publishes CG limits, there may or may not be a safety
factor in there. If you go beyond that limit you're now a test pilot; you
might be OK but you might have an uncontrollable airpoane.
-Dana
--
People will accept your ideas much more readily if you tell them that
Benjamin Franklin said it first.
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All I could find in the archives is the starting of the peddles he used, nothing
else. If you or anyone can find anything on this it would be a great help to
us all.
Rick Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225833#225833
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
Thanks for the advice everyone.
Yesterday I had enough time to make 3 full stop takeoffs and landings on the asphalt.
Wind was gusty at times but straight down the runway. I think it was mostly
around 5 to 6 kts with an occasional 10 kt gust.
Any way I guess some times you pick up bad habits after training like approaching
too hot 70 to 75 when 60 to 65 works better.
I have been doing that lately. So yesterday I made my approaches at 65 and held
it there until the round out and as soon as the wheels touched down I gave the
stick a quick jab forward and she stayed stuck to the pavement on the mains!!
Then as the plane slowed a bit the tail wheel came down.
The way I usually land involves coming in hot 70 to 75 rounding out, floating a
bit and holding the plane off for a full stall landing. The wheels usually touch
(3 point) at 45mph .
With the landings I practiced yesterday I didn't try to hold it off I just let
the plane fly onto the runway with a low sink rate. The landings were firm rather
than the slight tire chirp with the full stall and the ASI on touch down
was 50mph 5mph faster.
Ground handling seemed better doing the wheel landings vs the 3 point.
Thanks guys!
I have video footage of the takeoffs and landings. I will post them to youtube
tonight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225835#225835
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
I was having a lot of trouble with full stall landings and called Travis @ Kolb.
He recommended I fly it to the ground with power.
I set the power to maintain cruise speed with about a 200 ft/ min sink, and
fly it to the ground. If I am high (usually) I employ a forward slip and leave
the power setting. If I am way high (sometimes) I momentarily reduce power as
well.
To my surprise I can now do full stall landings. Aside from 190 landings in
this plane, I have no idea what is different. My wheel landings are consistently
smoother than wheel landings, much easier on the tires and landing gear. I
practice full stall landings for short fields, but prefer wheel landings, especially
on asphalt. I use a little more power for full stall. I use more approach
speed for dead stick and do a wheel landing.
I had an off airport landing do to motor failure shortly after takeoff and
drove it through some cactus, I think maybe I should practice full stall dead
stick. What do you guys think?
I also feel kinda stagnant in my training. I passed my check ride a got a
sport pilot license, but I feel I need to keep learning. I have visited a local
ultralight chapter but for the most part, they don't fly. most of the people
I have flown with scare me, either in their lack of aircraft control, or their
poor judgment. I would like to continue improving, any suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225852#225852
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Subject: | Re: Any Kolbers on Facebook? |
Roger
GREAT pix -- many thanx for posting them
Russ K
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
I don't get it - you had Gerry Olenik install the hks on a slingshot and you're
asking us about safe cg limits. I'm sure if Gerry did the install it was done
right. What does he have to say about the cg limits?
I installed the hks in my twinstar and was faced with the same questions. In
all my research it pretty much boiled down to this. Kolb used to say 20 - 40
percent. They got a bit more conservative and changed the rear limit abit (37
?) Do a archive search here and read everything you can. Some folks seem
to get away with waaaaay aft limits, with no trouble. Bear in mind that these
numbers will be set conservative. I was doing my install at the same time
as gerry was doing a slinshot (yours?) install, and I spoke with him extensively
about these issues. CG position is important to a newer pilot on a new craft.
If you read test flight stuff it is suggested that cg is foreward. For my
test flying I added a brs foreward (temporarily) to bring the cg central.
So........your slingshot solo is probably near the aft limit. (check it)
If so, for the first few flights strap on a few pounds of whatever and go fly!
cheers, Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225854#225854
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Been looking for people to fly with. I have had little luck. If you live in Arizona
and want a wing man, contact me. My plane is on a trailer and I often fly
out of Pleasant Valley (Turf ) I plane to fly Wednesday and perhaps this weekend.
Dalewhelan@earthlink.net
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225859#225859
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country time may look
impressive in the log book
but local ups and downs provide more real experience.
2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect conditions will lose
your sense of connection with the plane.
3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe circumstances
my opinion of course.
BB
On 20, Jan 2009, at 11:00 AM, dalewhelan wrote:
> <dalewhelan@earthlink.net>
>
> I was having a lot of trouble with full stall landings and called
> Travis @ Kolb.
> He recommended I fly it to the ground with power.
> I set the power to maintain cruise speed with about a 200 ft/
> min sink, and fly it to the ground. If I am high (usually) I employ
> a forward slip and leave the power setting. If I am way high
> (sometimes) I momentarily reduce power as well.
> To my surprise I can now do full stall landings. Aside from 190
> landings in this plane, I have no idea what is different. My wheel
> landings are consistently smoother than wheel landings, much easier
> on the tires and landing gear. I practice full stall landings for
> short fields, but prefer wheel landings, especially on asphalt. I
> use a little more power for full stall. I use more approach speed
> for dead stick and do a wheel landing.
> I had an off airport landing do to motor failure shortly after
> takeoff and drove it through some cactus, I think maybe I should
> practice full stall dead stick. What do you guys think?
> I also feel kinda stagnant in my training. I passed my check
> ride a got a sport pilot license, but I feel I need to keep
> learning. I have visited a local ultralight chapter but for the
> most part, they don't fly. most of the people I have flown with
> scare me, either in their lack of aircraft control, or their poor
> judgment. I would like to continue improving, any suggestions?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225852#225852
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot |
Kevin,
Is your plane N# 863GB, engine installed by Jerry at Greensky?
If so, I watched Jerry fly it around the pattern in Florida about a
year ago, on a day with close to 20 mph surface winds. Observing from
the ground, it looked like it was flying fine and handling well. If
it's not this one, nevermind. If it is, give him a call to discuss;
he's a really nice guy and I'm sure he would help answer your questions.
Jimmy Young
Houston
FS II
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Subject: | HKS - Slingshot, Acceptable Center of Gravity range |
Thanks for everybody's input. I welcome more if possible.
Clarification - I am not the Slingshot Gerry Olenik installed, but
thanks for that lead.
> Kevin Raymond
> Information Systems - Software Development
>
> Quad/Graphics
>
> Sussex, Wisconsin
> 414-566-6700 phone
> kevin.raymond@qg.com
> www.QG.com
>
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
During my training in my plane We rarely ever used any power during landing.
I don't like carrying power on. In my normal approaches I chop power to idle
once the field is made.
All of my landings are smooth this way. Nothing rough.
Before taking the lessons I was told the ultralights need to have some power on
to land by a few people. This didn't make much sense to me since and engine out
means no power. An X kolb flyer told me the MK III was impossible to land
without some power on and he also said increasing throttle during the landing
would put it up on its nose. The nose part could be true if the stick was not
adjusted to compensate for it.
This guys has over 400 hrs doing banner tow in a Cub.
I think its the steep angle of descent that gives the illusion that power must
be used to make a decent landing. I am pretty sure if a GA guy got in my plane
and I did a power off 65 mph decent it would scare them especially the low altitude
round out.
I think keeping power on to land is a band-aid. Jut my opinion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225874#225874
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
> During my training in my plane We rarely ever used any power during
landing.
> I don't like carrying power on. In my normal approaches I chop power to
> idle once the field is made.
>
> All of my landings are smooth this way. Nothing rough.
>
> Before taking the lessons I was told the ultralights need to have some
> power on to land by a few people. This didn't make much sense to me since
> and engine out means no power. An X kolb flyer told me the MK III was
> impossible to land without some power on and he also said increasing
> throttle during the landing would put it up on its nose. The nose part
> could be true if the stick was not adjusted to compensate for it.
>
> This guys has over 400 hrs doing banner tow in a Cub.
>
> I think its the steep angle of descent that gives the illusion that power
> must be used to make a decent landing. I am pretty sure if a GA guy got in
> my plane and I did a power off 65 mph decent it would scare them
> especially the low altitude round out.
> I think keeping power on to land is a band-aid. Jut my opinion
Grant:
I taught myself to fly the Ultrastar I built 25 years ago. I had no other
fixed wing training, although I had a good background and training flying
Army helicopters, to include combat time in Vietnam.
My philosophy for landing was to land power off. If I could make the field,
power off, I was going to make it if the engine quit, which was quite common
back then with two stroke engines.
10 to 15 mph over stall is plenty good for me.
My mkIII will land quite well without power, clean or full flaps. It does
good wheels and full stall landings without power.
One of my favorite maneuvers, during flight demos in the factory MKIII's at
Lakeland and Oshkosh, was to start my approach at the threshold of the
airstrip at pattern altitude, which was usually 300 feet AGL. Full flaps,
40 mph and the MKIII with passenger would kinda hoover for a few seconds.
Then push the nose over to about 60 mph and it would fall out of the sky.
Knudge a little aft stick to start a flare about 10 feet AGL and we would be
on the ground. Usually, the passenger would still be sucking air and
holding on tight. That is the way I landed, as a passenger, in February
1991, when I made my first landing in a MKIII on the taxi way next to Homer
Kolb's hanger with Dennis Souder at the controls. That short flight was my
checkout in the new factory MKIII. Next flight was solo, but on the 3000 ft
grass strip, not the short taxiway. I have also landed in Dick Rahill's
Cub, as a passenger, on that taxiway with Dick at the controls. Never a
dull moment at Homer's. I surely do miss those good old days.
Nose overs are very possible in a standard configured Kolb. Been there and
done that with my FS, factory FF and MKIII. Each incident was pilot error.
I put the aircraft in a situation that invited a nose over and did not see
it coming. Pretty hard to get one up on its nose when landing and taking
off if one stays ahead of the aircraft.
john h
mkIII - 36F at 1300 local.
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
I agree with what you said,Bob, - with one exception. You wrote that local ups
and downs provide more real experience than cross countries. If you are always
flying local, then part of your proficiency is due to familiarity. You KNOW
where the rotors, etc. tend to be at your airport and surrounding airports, since
you've flown into them so often. You still pay attention, but it's attention
tempered with a certain amount of comfort due to flying in known territory.
When you're flying cross country, you're flying over unfamiliar terrain and landing
at unfamiliar airports. You're landing on a variety of surfaces - paved,
turf, gravel, dirt, and sometimes in pastures or fields. The strips have different
surroundings with different obstacles. You're not familiar with the landing
strip or the surroundings and have to keep a very sharp lookout since you
don't know what to expect. I think that is a real learning experience.
Arty Trost
Maxair Drifter
Sandy, Oregon
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
--- On Tue, 1/20/09, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> 1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country
> time may look impressive in the log book
> but local ups and downs provide more real experience.
> 2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect
> conditions will lose your sense of connection with the
> plane.
> 3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe
> circumstances
> my opinion of course.
> BB
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
I agree that cross-country's can be more challenging.... and to add to
Arty's list, even at UL speeds, the weather can change considerably from the
time you took off until it's time to land at a new, unfamiliar airport.
-- Robert
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:21 PM, TheWanderingWench <
thewanderingwench@yahoo.com> wrote:
> thewanderingwench@yahoo.com>
>
> I agree with what you said,Bob, - with one exception. You wrote that local
> ups and downs provide more real experience than cross countries. If you are
> always flying local, then part of your proficiency is due to familiarity.
> You KNOW where the rotors, etc. tend to be at your airport and surrounding
> airports, since you've flown into them so often. You still pay attention,
> but it's attention tempered with a certain amount of comfort due to flying
> in known territory.
>
> When you're flying cross country, you're flying over unfamiliar terrain and
> landing at unfamiliar airports. You're landing on a variety of surfaces -
> paved, turf, gravel, dirt, and sometimes in pastures or fields. The strips
> have different surroundings with different obstacles. You're not familiar
> with the landing strip or the surroundings and have to keep a very sharp
> lookout since you don't know what to expect. I think that is a real learning
> experience.
>
> Arty Trost
> Maxair Drifter
> Sandy, Oregon
>
>
> www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com
>
> "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller
> "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/20/09, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>
> > 1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country
> > time may look impressive in the log book
> > but local ups and downs provide more real experience.
> > 2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect
> > conditions will lose your sense of connection with the
> > plane.
> > 3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe
> > circumstances
> > my opinion of course.
> > BB
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
I can't disagree. -However cruising mile after mile in calm air,
zombie mode, consuming mass quantities of petrol
is little more than watching the same thing on a 50"LCD. (ouch, here
come the slings)
From what little experience I've had landing my MkIII on actual
pavement makes me more alert when touching down.
Give me grass any time. -dirt, even mud :) Just not alfalfa or a
freshly plowed field. Tough on the old pitot tube.
Be REAL careful and carry extra speed when landing downwind of a row
of trees. The ASI needle (if you watch it)
will drop to zero in a blink.
Fun every time
BB
On 20, Jan 2009, at 2:21 PM, TheWanderingWench wrote:
> <thewanderingwench@yahoo.com>
>
> I agree with what you said,Bob, - with one exception. You wrote
> that local ups and downs provide more real experience than cross
> countries. If you are always flying local, then part of your
> proficiency is due to familiarity. You KNOW where the rotors, etc.
> tend to be at your airport and surrounding airports, since you've
> flown into them so often. You still pay attention, but it's
> attention tempered with a certain amount of comfort due to flying
> in known territory.
>
> When you're flying cross country, you're flying over unfamiliar
> terrain and landing at unfamiliar airports. You're landing on a
> variety of surfaces - paved, turf, gravel, dirt, and sometimes in
> pastures or fields. The strips have different surroundings with
> different obstacles. You're not familiar with the landing strip or
> the surroundings and have to keep a very sharp lookout since you
> don't know what to expect. I think that is a real learning experience.
>
> Arty Trost
> Maxair Drifter
> Sandy, Oregon
>
>
> www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com
>
> "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller
> "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/20/09, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>
>> 1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country
>> time may look impressive in the log book
>> but local ups and downs provide more real experience.
>> 2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect
>> conditions will lose your sense of connection with the
>> plane.
>> 3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe
>> circumstances
>> my opinion of course.
>> BB
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Instructing in a Kolb |
I got some resolution on instructing in an experimental from a Senior Aviation
Specialist at the EAA. He states that you can be paid to instruct in an experimental,
regardless of who owns or provides the aircraft, but the aircraft itself
cannot be rented. He goes on to address some of the other practical issues
such as insurance and finding an examiner willing to give the test in the experimental.
So, depending on how much liability I'm willing to risk it could be
done. Thanks to all of you who provided input on this issue.
Malcolm Morrison
MKII
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 6:40:42 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Kolb-List: Instructing in a Kolb
I'm trying to interpret the FARs for training in an experimental amateur built
airplane that I own (ie. my Kolb MKII)
91.319 states (a) that I cannot carry persons for compensation or hire - which
I believe means just that - passengers.
(e) that I cannot operate the aircraft for compensation except to conduct flight
training (c) in an aircraft that I provide prior to 1/31/2010.
(f) That I can lease the Kolb for instruction until 1/31/2010.
It looks like
- I can be paid for instruction in my Kolb only until 1/31/2010
- I can lease my Kolb for instruction only until 1/31/2010
- I cannot be paid for instruction in a Kolb that the student provides anytime
- I can give free instruction in my Kolb or the students Kolb anytime
Does this sound right?
Malcolm Morrison
MKII
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Subject: | Re: Instructing in a Kolb |
At 06:51 PM 1/20/2009, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote:
>I got some resolution on instructing in an experimental from a Senior
>Aviation Specialist at the EAA. He states that you can be paid to
>instruct in an experimental, regardless of who owns or provides the
>aircraft, but the aircraft itself cannot be rented. He goes on to address
>some of the other practical issues such as insurance and finding an
>examiner willing to give the test in the experimental. So, depending on
>how much liability I'm willing to risk it could be done. Thanks to all of
>you who provided input on this issue.
So you could charge, say, $120/hour to instruct in your experimental Kolb,
and provide the airplane for free? That seems like a large enough loophole
to... well, fly a MKIII through!
-Dana
--
The number of elected federal officials is limited to congress, the
president and the vice president. That's only 537 people. The federal
bureaucracy numbers in the millions.....
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Subject: | Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing |
So far I only have 68 hours with 28 of them cross country with landings at 18 different
airports.
I do fly in the summer when it gets hot and bumpy, the thermals are fun to play
with.
I either go places or practice flying better, more accurate landings, slow flight,
and better coordination in turns.
Tomorrow it is Chandelles and Lazy Eights, I hear this will improve my feel for
coordination in turns. I plan to be quite high while doing these.
I find landing on pavement busier than the gravel I normally land on. When I was
flying west from Missouri, I spotted grass strips but did not land at them.
Now that I fly out of the Phoenix area, I long for the day I land in grass. Closest
I have come to grass is cactus.
My father was a CFI when I was a kid, I have been told that the three things I
don't need is old school. They are sky above me, runway behind me, gas in the
fuel truck. I guess that is why I am usually high on approach and why I fly higher
than those I fly with. I was recently told there is another thing that is
of no value to me, the last 5 seconds.
Thank you guys for the advice you have already given me. If you have any more ideas,
please share them. I want to do this for a long time and I want to do it
well, I take my granddaughter up with me and don't want to break her.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225955#225955
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