---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/20/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:10 AM - Re: HKS - Slingshot (Ted Cowan) 2. 04:24 AM - Re: Re: HKS - Slingshot (Dana Hague) 3. 04:35 AM - Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot (Dana Hague) 4. 05:28 AM - Re: C90 Brakes (Rick Lewis) 5. 05:54 AM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (grantr) 6. 08:00 AM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (dalewhelan) 7. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Any Kolbers on Facebook? (russ kinne) 8. 08:19 AM - Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot (robcannon) 9. 08:30 AM - Arizona flyers? (dalewhelan) 10. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (robert bean) 11. 09:07 AM - Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot (Jimmy Young) 12. 09:50 AM - HKS - Slingshot, Acceptable Center of Gravity range (Raymond, Kevin) 13. 10:20 AM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (grantr) 14. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (John Hauck) 15. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (TheWanderingWench) 16. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (Robert Laird) 17. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (robert bean) 18. 03:52 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (gliderx5@comcast.net) 19. 04:00 PM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (Dana Hague) 20. 09:41 PM - Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (dalewhelan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:14 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS - Slingshot To answer Kevin about his slingshot with an HKS engine is a tuff one. I have over four hundred hours on my slingshot. Started with a 582 which pushed it quite well. Worried a bunch about it being 'tail heavy'. Got news for you, the slingshot seems tail heavy all the time. Pick up the boom once and you will see. It wants to plant its butt down first unless you really come in hot. Three point is what it really likes. Faster if there is a cross wind although I find that putting its feet down quickly and slowly is best on asphalt. I put a 912UL on my baby a couple of years ago and really worried about aft CG but the engine actually moved it forward a tad. It added about thirty five pounds to my mount but it actually lands better now. I think the 912 shifts some of the weight forward vs the 582. Dont know what an HKS will do. I suppose it is a lot lighter than a 912 or 582. Anyway, I know the 912 is heavier and I have not had any problem so far and as I stated, it actually lands better -- and slower for some reason. One thing I will mention is I believe, and this is only me, that 60 little ponies might be a little shy for this good ole slingshot. This aircraft is built for zoom zoom and it really likes the extra doggies back there. I have heard of a 503 powered one and that was really a dog and the guy did not like it. Cannot imagine such low power. Little wings need big horsies back there pushing. This is only my opinion of course. You may be one that likes a more mild ride but I would caution you with passengers. It takes a lot more doggies pushing when you have a passenger or a heavy load back there in the seat. My 582 had to push real hard if I were to give a ride. Still handled it well but took a lot more to do it. Even the 912 doubles the take-off distance with 150 lbs back in the seat. You also have to add about 10 more mph on landing and full flapperons. Now, these are all just my opinion. By the way, with the 582 I got about 5 to 5 and a half gph burn at 75 and with the 912 I get 3 gph burn at 85 mph. THAT is savings AND fun. Hope this helped. It is worth what you paid for it. Be mindful of your airspeed on turns, keep the power on. This little baby like to bank real tight. Have fun and let us know how it flys. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot 912UL. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:51 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: HKS - Slingshot At 07:09 AM 1/20/2009, Ted Cowan wrote: > >...the slingshot seems tail heavy all the time. Pick up the boom once and >you will see... That doesn't mean it's tail heavy in an aerodynamic sense (relative to the wing), just that the CG is well aft of the main landing gear. -Dana -- People will accept your ideas much more readily if you tell them that Benjamin Franklin said it first. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:10 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot At 01:09 PM 1/19/2009, Raymond, Kevin wrote: >...I know what my plans say is the acceptable range (20 - 37% mean >aerodynamic chord), and I also just attended the EAA's workshop for safely >testing flying your project, and I know what they define as an acceptable >range (18 - 34% Mean aerodynamic chord)....My aircraft is currently set up >to be near the back end of the EAA general aircraft range, and I have >heard a CQ that is pretty aft in the range is fairly typical for >Kolb's. I am well aware the aft limit is death if you exceed it... The 18-34% you got from the EAA is a general rule of thumb; in all cases you should use what the manufacturer (Kolb) recommends. When a manufacturer publishes CG limits, there may or may not be a safety factor in there. If you go beyond that limit you're now a test pilot; you might be OK but you might have an uncontrollable airpoane. -Dana -- People will accept your ideas much more readily if you tell them that Benjamin Franklin said it first. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:58 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: C90 Brakes From: "Rick Lewis" All I could find in the archives is the starting of the peddles he used, nothing else. If you or anyone can find anything on this it would be a great help to us all. Rick Lewis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225833#225833 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:20 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing From: "grantr" Thanks for the advice everyone. Yesterday I had enough time to make 3 full stop takeoffs and landings on the asphalt. Wind was gusty at times but straight down the runway. I think it was mostly around 5 to 6 kts with an occasional 10 kt gust. Any way I guess some times you pick up bad habits after training like approaching too hot 70 to 75 when 60 to 65 works better. I have been doing that lately. So yesterday I made my approaches at 65 and held it there until the round out and as soon as the wheels touched down I gave the stick a quick jab forward and she stayed stuck to the pavement on the mains!! Then as the plane slowed a bit the tail wheel came down. The way I usually land involves coming in hot 70 to 75 rounding out, floating a bit and holding the plane off for a full stall landing. The wheels usually touch (3 point) at 45mph . With the landings I practiced yesterday I didn't try to hold it off I just let the plane fly onto the runway with a low sink rate. The landings were firm rather than the slight tire chirp with the full stall and the ASI on touch down was 50mph 5mph faster. Ground handling seemed better doing the wheel landings vs the 3 point. Thanks guys! I have video footage of the takeoffs and landings. I will post them to youtube tonight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225835#225835 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing From: "dalewhelan" I was having a lot of trouble with full stall landings and called Travis @ Kolb. He recommended I fly it to the ground with power. I set the power to maintain cruise speed with about a 200 ft/ min sink, and fly it to the ground. If I am high (usually) I employ a forward slip and leave the power setting. If I am way high (sometimes) I momentarily reduce power as well. To my surprise I can now do full stall landings. Aside from 190 landings in this plane, I have no idea what is different. My wheel landings are consistently smoother than wheel landings, much easier on the tires and landing gear. I practice full stall landings for short fields, but prefer wheel landings, especially on asphalt. I use a little more power for full stall. I use more approach speed for dead stick and do a wheel landing. I had an off airport landing do to motor failure shortly after takeoff and drove it through some cactus, I think maybe I should practice full stall dead stick. What do you guys think? I also feel kinda stagnant in my training. I passed my check ride a got a sport pilot license, but I feel I need to keep learning. I have visited a local ultralight chapter but for the most part, they don't fly. most of the people I have flown with scare me, either in their lack of aircraft control, or their poor judgment. I would like to continue improving, any suggestions? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225852#225852 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:48 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Any Kolbers on Facebook? Roger GREAT pix -- many thanx for posting them Russ K do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:56 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot From: "robcannon" I don't get it - you had Gerry Olenik install the hks on a slingshot and you're asking us about safe cg limits. I'm sure if Gerry did the install it was done right. What does he have to say about the cg limits? I installed the hks in my twinstar and was faced with the same questions. In all my research it pretty much boiled down to this. Kolb used to say 20 - 40 percent. They got a bit more conservative and changed the rear limit abit (37 ?) Do a archive search here and read everything you can. Some folks seem to get away with waaaaay aft limits, with no trouble. Bear in mind that these numbers will be set conservative. I was doing my install at the same time as gerry was doing a slinshot (yours?) install, and I spoke with him extensively about these issues. CG position is important to a newer pilot on a new craft. If you read test flight stuff it is suggested that cg is foreward. For my test flying I added a brs foreward (temporarily) to bring the cg central. So........your slingshot solo is probably near the aft limit. (check it) If so, for the first few flights strap on a few pounds of whatever and go fly! cheers, Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225854#225854 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Arizona flyers? From: "dalewhelan" Been looking for people to fly with. I have had little luck. If you live in Arizona and want a wing man, contact me. My plane is on a trailer and I often fly out of Pleasant Valley (Turf ) I plane to fly Wednesday and perhaps this weekend. Dalewhelan@earthlink.net -------- Dale Whelan 503 powered Firestar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225859#225859 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:00 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing 1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country time may look impressive in the log book but local ups and downs provide more real experience. 2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect conditions will lose your sense of connection with the plane. 3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe circumstances my opinion of course. BB On 20, Jan 2009, at 11:00 AM, dalewhelan wrote: > > > I was having a lot of trouble with full stall landings and called > Travis @ Kolb. > He recommended I fly it to the ground with power. > I set the power to maintain cruise speed with about a 200 ft/ > min sink, and fly it to the ground. If I am high (usually) I employ > a forward slip and leave the power setting. If I am way high > (sometimes) I momentarily reduce power as well. > To my surprise I can now do full stall landings. Aside from 190 > landings in this plane, I have no idea what is different. My wheel > landings are consistently smoother than wheel landings, much easier > on the tires and landing gear. I practice full stall landings for > short fields, but prefer wheel landings, especially on asphalt. I > use a little more power for full stall. I use more approach speed > for dead stick and do a wheel landing. > I had an off airport landing do to motor failure shortly after > takeoff and drove it through some cactus, I think maybe I should > practice full stall dead stick. What do you guys think? > I also feel kinda stagnant in my training. I passed my check > ride a got a sport pilot license, but I feel I need to keep > learning. I have visited a local ultralight chapter but for the > most part, they don't fly. most of the people I have flown with > scare me, either in their lack of aircraft control, or their poor > judgment. I would like to continue improving, any suggestions? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225852#225852 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:08 AM PST US From: Jimmy Young Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Acceptable CQ range for a Slingshot Kevin, Is your plane N# 863GB, engine installed by Jerry at Greensky? If so, I watched Jerry fly it around the pattern in Florida about a year ago, on a day with close to 20 mph surface winds. Observing from the ground, it looked like it was flying fine and handling well. If it's not this one, nevermind. If it is, give him a call to discuss; he's a really nice guy and I'm sure he would help answer your questions. Jimmy Young Houston FS II ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: HKS - Slingshot, Acceptable Center of Gravity range From: "Raymond, Kevin" Thanks for everybody's input. I welcome more if possible. Clarification - I am not the Slingshot Gerry Olenik installed, but thanks for that lead. > Kevin Raymond > Information Systems - Software Development > > Quad/Graphics > > Sussex, Wisconsin > 414-566-6700 phone > kevin.raymond@qg.com > www.QG.com > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:25 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing From: "grantr" During my training in my plane We rarely ever used any power during landing. I don't like carrying power on. In my normal approaches I chop power to idle once the field is made. All of my landings are smooth this way. Nothing rough. Before taking the lessons I was told the ultralights need to have some power on to land by a few people. This didn't make much sense to me since and engine out means no power. An X kolb flyer told me the MK III was impossible to land without some power on and he also said increasing throttle during the landing would put it up on its nose. The nose part could be true if the stick was not adjusted to compensate for it. This guys has over 400 hrs doing banner tow in a Cub. I think its the steep angle of descent that gives the illusion that power must be used to make a decent landing. I am pretty sure if a GA guy got in my plane and I did a power off 65 mph decent it would scare them especially the low altitude round out. I think keeping power on to land is a band-aid. Jut my opinion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225874#225874 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:25 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing > During my training in my plane We rarely ever used any power during landing. > I don't like carrying power on. In my normal approaches I chop power to > idle once the field is made. > > All of my landings are smooth this way. Nothing rough. > > Before taking the lessons I was told the ultralights need to have some > power on to land by a few people. This didn't make much sense to me since > and engine out means no power. An X kolb flyer told me the MK III was > impossible to land without some power on and he also said increasing > throttle during the landing would put it up on its nose. The nose part > could be true if the stick was not adjusted to compensate for it. > > This guys has over 400 hrs doing banner tow in a Cub. > > I think its the steep angle of descent that gives the illusion that power > must be used to make a decent landing. I am pretty sure if a GA guy got in > my plane and I did a power off 65 mph decent it would scare them > especially the low altitude round out. > I think keeping power on to land is a band-aid. Jut my opinion Grant: I taught myself to fly the Ultrastar I built 25 years ago. I had no other fixed wing training, although I had a good background and training flying Army helicopters, to include combat time in Vietnam. My philosophy for landing was to land power off. If I could make the field, power off, I was going to make it if the engine quit, which was quite common back then with two stroke engines. 10 to 15 mph over stall is plenty good for me. My mkIII will land quite well without power, clean or full flaps. It does good wheels and full stall landings without power. One of my favorite maneuvers, during flight demos in the factory MKIII's at Lakeland and Oshkosh, was to start my approach at the threshold of the airstrip at pattern altitude, which was usually 300 feet AGL. Full flaps, 40 mph and the MKIII with passenger would kinda hoover for a few seconds. Then push the nose over to about 60 mph and it would fall out of the sky. Knudge a little aft stick to start a flare about 10 feet AGL and we would be on the ground. Usually, the passenger would still be sucking air and holding on tight. That is the way I landed, as a passenger, in February 1991, when I made my first landing in a MKIII on the taxi way next to Homer Kolb's hanger with Dennis Souder at the controls. That short flight was my checkout in the new factory MKIII. Next flight was solo, but on the 3000 ft grass strip, not the short taxiway. I have also landed in Dick Rahill's Cub, as a passenger, on that taxiway with Dick at the controls. Never a dull moment at Homer's. I surely do miss those good old days. Nose overs are very possible in a standard configured Kolb. Been there and done that with my FS, factory FF and MKIII. Each incident was pilot error. I put the aircraft in a situation that invited a nose over and did not see it coming. Pretty hard to get one up on its nose when landing and taking off if one stays ahead of the aircraft. john h mkIII - 36F at 1300 local. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:40 AM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing I agree with what you said,Bob, - with one exception. You wrote that local ups and downs provide more real experience than cross countries. If you are always flying local, then part of your proficiency is due to familiarity. You KNOW where the rotors, etc. tend to be at your airport and surrounding airports, since you've flown into them so often. You still pay attention, but it's attention tempered with a certain amount of comfort due to flying in known territory. When you're flying cross country, you're flying over unfamiliar terrain and landing at unfamiliar airports. You're landing on a variety of surfaces - paved, turf, gravel, dirt, and sometimes in pastures or fields. The strips have different surroundings with different obstacles. You're not familiar with the landing strip or the surroundings and have to keep a very sharp lookout since you don't know what to expect. I think that is a real learning experience. Arty Trost Maxair Drifter Sandy, Oregon www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Tue, 1/20/09, robert bean wrote: > 1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country > time may look impressive in the log book > but local ups and downs provide more real experience. > 2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect > conditions will lose your sense of connection with the > plane. > 3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe > circumstances > my opinion of course. > BB ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:24 AM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing I agree that cross-country's can be more challenging.... and to add to Arty's list, even at UL speeds, the weather can change considerably from the time you took off until it's time to land at a new, unfamiliar airport. -- Robert On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:21 PM, TheWanderingWench < thewanderingwench@yahoo.com> wrote: > thewanderingwench@yahoo.com> > > I agree with what you said,Bob, - with one exception. You wrote that local > ups and downs provide more real experience than cross countries. If you are > always flying local, then part of your proficiency is due to familiarity. > You KNOW where the rotors, etc. tend to be at your airport and surrounding > airports, since you've flown into them so often. You still pay attention, > but it's attention tempered with a certain amount of comfort due to flying > in known territory. > > When you're flying cross country, you're flying over unfamiliar terrain and > landing at unfamiliar airports. You're landing on a variety of surfaces - > paved, turf, gravel, dirt, and sometimes in pastures or fields. The strips > have different surroundings with different obstacles. You're not familiar > with the landing strip or the surroundings and have to keep a very sharp > lookout since you don't know what to expect. I think that is a real learning > experience. > > Arty Trost > Maxair Drifter > Sandy, Oregon > > > www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com > > "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller > "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." > > > --- On Tue, 1/20/09, robert bean wrote: > > > > 1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country > > time may look impressive in the log book > > but local ups and downs provide more real experience. > > 2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect > > conditions will lose your sense of connection with the > > plane. > > 3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe > > circumstances > > my opinion of course. > > BB > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:27 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing I can't disagree. -However cruising mile after mile in calm air, zombie mode, consuming mass quantities of petrol is little more than watching the same thing on a 50"LCD. (ouch, here come the slings) From what little experience I've had landing my MkIII on actual pavement makes me more alert when touching down. Give me grass any time. -dirt, even mud :) Just not alfalfa or a freshly plowed field. Tough on the old pitot tube. Be REAL careful and carry extra speed when landing downwind of a row of trees. The ASI needle (if you watch it) will drop to zero in a blink. Fun every time BB On 20, Jan 2009, at 2:21 PM, TheWanderingWench wrote: > > > I agree with what you said,Bob, - with one exception. You wrote > that local ups and downs provide more real experience than cross > countries. If you are always flying local, then part of your > proficiency is due to familiarity. You KNOW where the rotors, etc. > tend to be at your airport and surrounding airports, since you've > flown into them so often. You still pay attention, but it's > attention tempered with a certain amount of comfort due to flying > in known territory. > > When you're flying cross country, you're flying over unfamiliar > terrain and landing at unfamiliar airports. You're landing on a > variety of surfaces - paved, turf, gravel, dirt, and sometimes in > pastures or fields. The strips have different surroundings with > different obstacles. You're not familiar with the landing strip or > the surroundings and have to keep a very sharp lookout since you > don't know what to expect. I think that is a real learning experience. > > Arty Trost > Maxair Drifter > Sandy, Oregon > > > www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com > > "Life's a daring adventure or nothing" Helen Keller > "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." > > > --- On Tue, 1/20/09, robert bean wrote: > > >> 1. fly regularly and land often. Long cross-country >> time may look impressive in the log book >> but local ups and downs provide more real experience. >> 2. fly in bumpy air. Flying in only perfect >> conditions will lose your sense of connection with the >> plane. >> 3. practice a lot of closed throttle landings in safe >> circumstances >> my opinion of course. >> BB > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:33 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instructing in a Kolb I got some resolution on instructing in an experimental from a Senior Aviation Specialist at the EAA. He states that you can be paid to instruct in an experimental, regardless of who owns or provides the aircraft, but the aircraft itself cannot be rented. He goes on to address some of the other practical issues such as insurance and finding an examiner willing to give the test in the experimental. So, depending on how much liability I'm willing to risk it could be done. Thanks to all of you who provided input on this issue. Malcolm Morrison MKII ----- Original Message ----- From: gliderx5@comcast.net Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 6:40:42 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Kolb-List: Instructing in a Kolb I'm trying to interpret the FARs for training in an experimental amateur built airplane that I own (ie. my Kolb MKII) 91.319 states (a) that I cannot carry persons for compensation or hire - which I believe means just that - passengers. (e) that I cannot operate the aircraft for compensation except to conduct flight training (c) in an aircraft that I provide prior to 1/31/2010. (f) That I can lease the Kolb for instruction until 1/31/2010. It looks like - I can be paid for instruction in my Kolb only until 1/31/2010 - I can lease my Kolb for instruction only until 1/31/2010 - I cannot be paid for instruction in a Kolb that the student provides anytime - I can give free instruction in my Kolb or the students Kolb anytime Does this sound right? Malcolm Morrison MKII ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:43 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instructing in a Kolb At 06:51 PM 1/20/2009, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote: >I got some resolution on instructing in an experimental from a Senior >Aviation Specialist at the EAA. He states that you can be paid to >instruct in an experimental, regardless of who owns or provides the >aircraft, but the aircraft itself cannot be rented. He goes on to address >some of the other practical issues such as insurance and finding an >examiner willing to give the test in the experimental. So, depending on >how much liability I'm willing to risk it could be done. Thanks to all of >you who provided input on this issue. So you could charge, say, $120/hour to instruct in your experimental Kolb, and provide the airplane for free? That seems like a large enough loophole to... well, fly a MKIII through! -Dana -- The number of elected federal officials is limited to congress, the president and the vice president. That's only 537 people. The federal bureaucracy numbers in the millions..... ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:11 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing From: "dalewhelan" So far I only have 68 hours with 28 of them cross country with landings at 18 different airports. I do fly in the summer when it gets hot and bumpy, the thermals are fun to play with. I either go places or practice flying better, more accurate landings, slow flight, and better coordination in turns. Tomorrow it is Chandelles and Lazy Eights, I hear this will improve my feel for coordination in turns. I plan to be quite high while doing these. I find landing on pavement busier than the gravel I normally land on. When I was flying west from Missouri, I spotted grass strips but did not land at them. Now that I fly out of the Phoenix area, I long for the day I land in grass. Closest I have come to grass is cactus. My father was a CFI when I was a kid, I have been told that the three things I don't need is old school. They are sky above me, runway behind me, gas in the fuel truck. I guess that is why I am usually high on approach and why I fly higher than those I fly with. I was recently told there is another thing that is of no value to me, the last 5 seconds. Thank you guys for the advice you have already given me. If you have any more ideas, please share them. I want to do this for a long time and I want to do it well, I take my granddaughter up with me and don't want to break her. -------- Dale Whelan 503 powered Firestar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225955#225955 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.