---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/21/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:04 AM - Re: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing (pj.ladd) 2. 05:32 AM - Wheel landing video practice (grantr) 3. 06:39 AM - Re: Instructing in a Kolb (Thom Riddle) 4. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Instructing in a Kolb (Richard Girard) 5. 09:29 AM - Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes (The BaronVonEvil) 6. 02:43 PM - 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 7. 03:04 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (Ed Chmielewski) 8. 03:29 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (jerb) 9. 03:46 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (Mike Welch) 10. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Instructing in a Kolb (gliderx5@comcast.net) 11. 04:22 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (John Hauck) 12. 04:29 PM - Hand radio power (Mike Welch) 13. 04:30 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 14. 06:39 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (Rick Lewis) 15. 06:43 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (Richard Girard) 16. 09:49 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (boyd) 17. 09:58 PM - Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? (boyd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:38 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crab vs sideslip crosswing landing << I was going to make it if the engine quit, which was quite common back then with two stroke engines.>> I will go with that. With the old engines it was always `when` it would stop, never `if`. I have always flown base leg within gliding dictance of the field and closed the throttle as I turned onto finals. Downwind, base leg and finals are pretty much indistinguishable with me. A sort of squarish oval shape with a bit of `turn left at the big elm tree` thrown in. Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:19 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Wheel landing video practice From: "grantr" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLfDn1a4uf8&fmt=18 This is the video of the my wheel landing practice. Forward stick on touchdown plants that baby! You will notice that I am at idle through each landing. These are the 1st wheel landings I have ever done. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225978#225978 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Instructing in a Kolb From: "Thom Riddle" Malcolm, Could you provide the name of "a Senior Aviation Specialist at the EAA" that told you that? I'd like to confirm your understanding with him/her. I'd like to be able to instruct (I'm a CFI-SP) in our Rans S6 but don't think that is allowed except for my co-owners. That has been my understanding for eons. -------- Thom Riddle N1208P RANS S6S, Tailwheel, 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- It is by universal misunderstanding that all agree. For if, by ill luck, people understood each other, they would never agree. - Charles Baudelaire Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225982#225982 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instructing in a Kolb From: Richard Girard Thom, Malcolm, et al, Who cares what "a Senior Aviation Specialist at the EAA" says? He/she can say anything, whether well meaning or not, and it means nothing, it's just their opinion.To try and track this down again, I called the Light Sport Branch in OK city. I proposed Dana's conjecture, "I charge $120 an hour for my instruction, I supply the plane for free". Would that be legal? Answer: "It's a gray area that would be decided by your local FSDO". "The FAA does not want to become involved in setting compensation rates". As an aside, these people aren't stupid, if an instructor is charging far above the local rate, but claiming the aircraft is provided for free, they're going to figure that some portion of the cost is going to be used to support the aircraft. This was the general thrust of the comments. So, sorry guys and gals, I can't give you the definitive answer, but your local FSDO can. Call them for the answer, they're the folks who will start the enforcement action against you. I don't think the, "a Senior Aviation Specialist at the EAA told me it was okay" defense is going to hold much water if they do. Rick On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Thom Riddle wrote: > > Malcolm, > > Could you provide the name of "a Senior Aviation Specialist at the EAA" > that told you that? I'd like to confirm your understanding with him/her. > > I'd like to be able to instruct (I'm a CFI-SP) in our Rans S6 but don't > think that is allowed except for my co-owners. That has been my > understanding for eons. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > N1208P RANS S6S, Tailwheel, 912UL > N197BG FS1/447 > -------------------- > It is by universal misunderstanding that all agree. For if, by ill luck, > people understood each other, they would never agree. > - Charles Baudelaire > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225982#225982 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:43 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fabric rubbing on cage tubes From: "The BaronVonEvil" Hi Cristal, Just a little follow up. Were you able to determine the cause of your fabric rubbing problem? Did you find a solution to the problem and what was it ? Us busy-bodies would like to know :-) Best Regards, Carlos G. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225996#225996 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:07 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" Kolb Friends - I have a Sporty's-200 handheld radio that I use occasionally in my Kolb. Up to now, I have always operated it using its own battery power. Recently, I obtained a power cord to power the radio from an external DC source. The cord plugs into the 12v DC cigar plug receptacle in my Mark-III, and the other end has a small plug jack that plugs into the radio. I figure this will help save the batteries in the radio, if I power it from the aircraft 12v power system. Here's my question: The plug jack on the radio says "9vDC" on it. Nine volts?! The eight double-A batteries that make up the battery pack (at a volt and a half each) totals 12 volts, so it's inconsistent why would the markings on the radio would say 9 volts. Will it hurt this radio to run 12v DC into it from the external plug-in power source? (This individual circuit is fused at 3 amps.) Hoping to gain some knowledge before I fly it like this ... Thanks - Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, "Magic Bike" Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:10 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Hi Dennis, I'd guess Sporty's has the right adapter. Don't wanna let the 'smoke' out! Some electronics are tolerant of the overvoltage, others aren't. Cell phones in particular can have pretty sophisticated adapters, work on 12/24V as an example. Ed in JXN MkII/503 Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Kolb Friends - I have a Sporty's-200 handheld radio that I use occasionally in my Kolb. Up to now, I have always operated it using its own battery power. Recently, I obtained a power cord to power the radio from an external DC source. The cord plugs into the 12v DC cigar plug receptacle in my Mark-III, and the other end has a small plug jack that plugs into the radio. I figure this will help save the batteries in the radio, if I power it from the aircraft 12v power system. Here's my question: The plug jack on the radio says "9vDC" on it. Nine volts?! The eight double-A batteries that make up the battery pack (at a volt and a half each) totals 12 volts, so it's inconsistent why would the markings on the radio would say 9 volts. Will it hurt this radio to run 12v DC into it from the external plug-in power source? (This individual circuit is fused at 3 amps.) Hoping to gain some knowledge before I fly it like this . Thanks - Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, "Magic Bike" Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:47 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Got an answer for your radio power supply - I believe it was Target used to sell a voltage regulator that plugged into a cigar lighter - it had a switch on it to set it to different output voltages commonly used by electronic devices. A friend got his first then I got one for my plane to add protection for the radio. It worked good. jerb At 04:41 PM 1/21/2009, you wrote: > > >Kolb Friends ' > >I have a Sporty=92s-200 handheld radio that I use >occasionally in my Kolb. Up to now, I have >always operated it using its own battery power. > >Recently, I obtained a power cord to power the >radio from an external DC source. The cord >plugs into the 12v DC cigar plug receptacle in >my Mark-III, and the other end has a small plug >jack that plugs into the radio. I figure this >will help save the batteries in the radio, if I >power it from the aircraft 12v power system. > >Here=92s my question: The plug jack on the radio >says =939vDC=94 on it. Nine volts?! >The eight double-A batteries that make up the >battery pack (at a volt and a half each) totals >12 volts, so it=92s inconsistent why would the >markings on the radio would say 9 volts. > >Will it hurt this radio to run 12v DC into it >from the external plug-in power source? (This >individual circuit is fused at 3 amps.) > >Hoping to gain some knowledge before I fly it like this =85 > >Thanks ' >Dennis Kirby >Mark-3, 912ul, =93Magic Bike=94 >Cedar Crest, NM > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:10 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Dennis, Yes, you do run the chance of frying something. 99.9% of all AA rechargable batteries are actually 1.2 volts, not 1.5 volts like Duracells. I don't know why they do that, it's dumb if you ask me. If you put a multimeter across the radio's battery pack, you see pretty close to; 8 batteries x 1.2v = 9.6 volts (not 12v, like you're thinking) BTW, Radio Shack sells a variable voltage aux. power, that plugs into your cigarette plug hole. It comes with a handful of interchangable plugs. If I remember correctly, it offers 3v, 6v, 9v,& 12v. Yes, you can ruin something, even if you are only a fraction of a volt away from what's correct. I plugged my 3.4 volt Nokia phone into a 3.6 volts supply. Fried that sucker dead, dead, dead! It became a paperweight real quick. Last tip, I promise. If anyone actually needs real, genuine, bonafide, full 1.5 volt NiMH rechargable batteries, you can get them on eBay somewhere. Just do a 1.5 volt AA search. They're not those dopey 1.2 volt slugs, they ACT like Duracells!! I got a couple dozen of them to run my digital camera. That turkey eats batteries like the government had a bail-out offer on 'em. Best regards, Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? From: Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil Kolb Friends I have a Sportys-200 handheld radio that I use occasionally in my Kolb. Up to now, I have always operated it using its own battery power. Recently, I obtained a power cord to power the radio from an external DC source. The cord plugs into the 12v DC cigar plug receptacle in my Mark-III, and the other end has a small plug jack that plugs into the radio. I figure this will help save the batteries in the radio, if I power it from the aircraft 12v power system. Heres my question: The plug jack on the radio says 9vDC on it. Nine volts?! The eight double-A batteries that make up the battery pack (at a volt and a half each) totals 12 volts, so its inconsistent why would the markings on the radio would say 9 volts. Will it hurt this radio to run 12v DC into it from the external plug-in power source? (This individual circuit is fused at 3 amps.) Hoping to gain some knowledge before I fly it like this Thanks Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, Magic Bike Cedar Crest, NM _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmailmore than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:25 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instructing in a Kolb Rick, I think you have said it best. It is a gray area and it would depend on who ever wants to enforce the rules as they see them. I received an email from NAFI today that said " If you are providing the aircraft and the instructio n, it will be considered a package." and would not be allowed. Timm Bogenha gen from the EAA said that it does not matter who provides the airplane. I' ll be darned if I can read any of this into what it actually says in 91.319 . The bottom line is that instructing and receiving compensation for instru cting in an experimental appears to be just fine with big brother. The stud ent appears to be able to provide the airplane, either their own, or a club aircraft, or one borrowed, stolen, or otherwise acquirred, but just not re nted. The issue for debate with big brother would seem to be whether I'm le tting the student use my airplane out of the goodness of my heart because t here are no other LSAs available in the area, or am I really receiving rent through my instructon fees for the use of the airplane. If the hourly inst ruction fee was reasonably inline with the norm, and the same rate was char ged to students whether in my airplane or their own airplane, then I would guess you could make an argument that you were within the intent of the FAR . However, as you have pointed out, it is ultimately up to the FSDO should they choose to get involved. I know in my part of PA getting sport pilot in struction is next to impossible, so I plan to pursue this a little more. I' ll keep you posted and thanks again for the inputs. Malcolm Morrison MKII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Girard" Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:59:50 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instructing in a Kolb Thom, Malcolm, et al, Who cares what "a Senior Aviation Specialist at the E AA" says? He/she can say anything, whether well meaning or not, and it mean s nothing, it's just their opinion. To try and track this down again, I called the Light Sport Branch in OK cit y. I proposed Dana's conjecture, "I charge $120 an hour for my instruction, I supply the plane for free". Would that be legal? Answer: "It's a gray area that would be decided by your local FSDO". "The F AA does not want to become involved in setting compensation rates". As an a side, these people aren't stupid, if an instructor is charging far above th e local rate, but claiming the aircraft is provided for free, they're going to figure that some portion of the cost is going to be used to support the aircraft. This was the general thrust of the comments. So, sorry guys and gals, I can't give you the definitive answer, but your l ocal FSDO can. Call them for the answer, they're the folks who will start t he enforcement action against you. I don't think the, "a Senior Aviation Sp ecialist at the EAA told me it was okay" defense is going to hold much wate r if they do. Rick On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Thom Riddle < riddletr@gmail.com > wrote: Malcolm, Could you provide the name of "a Senior Aviation Specialist at the EAA" tha t told you that? I'd like to confirm your understanding with him/her. I'd like to be able to instruct (I'm a CFI-SP) in our Rans S6 but don't thi nk that is allowed except for my co-owners. That has been my understanding for eons. -------- Thom Riddle N1208P RANS S6S, Tailwheel, 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- It is by universal misunderstanding that all agree. For if, by ill luck, pe ople understood each other, they would never agree. - Charles Baudelaire Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225982#225982 =========== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com =========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== == ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:55 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Dennis: Here are the specs for power input for the SP200: Battery Pack Power Nicad Battery Pack 9.6 VDC / 600 mAH Alkaline Battery Pack 12.0 VDC (8 AA batteries x 1.5 VDC each) Nicad Bat is 9.6VDC and the Alky Bat Pack is 12.0VDC. The way I interpret that is the radio will operate on 12.0VDC or 9.6VDC. Most aviation radios and other avionics have a pretty wide spread on operat ing voltage. If it was my radio, I'd operate it on 12VDC. 12VDC coming out of your on b oard aircraft battery is the same as 12vdc coming out of 8 AA bats. My Icom A3 is 12 to 15VDC. 18VDC will cause the LCD to flash 18VDC Overvol tage. I'd contact Sporty's. Find out what voltage range is published for the SP2 00. I bet it is 9.6 to 12 VDC, or maybe 15VDC, but you will have to contac t the experts to verify. Sporty's has a multivoltage transformer for your radio but they want $75.00 for it. john h mkIII Will it hurt this radio to run 12v DC into it from the external plug-in p ower source? (This individual circuit is fused at 3 amps.) Hoping to gain some knowledge before I fly it like this . Thanks - Dennis Kirby ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:32 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Hand radio power Dennis, Here's what you're looking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-Car-Adapter-Multi-Voltage-Car-or-Boat_W0QQitemZ370146286601QQihZ024QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I got a couple of them for running some 2-way radios, for when I was cross country driving alongside with another vehicle. Nowadays, we just cell phones. Radio Shack's version is much better than this one, and I think they give you more plugs, too. Mike Welch Kolb Firestar _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:12 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Dennis/All I don't know about the 9V - 12V issue but be very careful to unplug your equipment while cranking or powering off your airplane. I have a King KLX100 that I have fried twice by cranking or turning off the ignition while the radio is plugged into the system. Both times King fixed the power circuit for a nominal charge but now they talk about a major charge. Most cars have circuit that interrupts power to radios while cranking. Wish my plane does. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Kolb Friends - I have a Sporty's-200 handheld radio that I use occasionally in my Kolb. Up to now, I have always operated it using its own battery power. Recently, I obtained a power cord to power the radio from an external DC source. The cord plugs into the 12v DC cigar plug receptacle in my Mark-III, and the other end has a small plug jack that plugs into the radio. I figure this will help save the batteries in the radio, if I power it from the aircraft 12v power system. Here's my question: The plug jack on the radio says "9vDC" on it. Nine volts?! The eight double-A batteries that make up the battery pack (at a volt and a half each) totals 12 volts, so it's inconsistent why would the markings on the radio would say 9 volts. Will it hurt this radio to run 12v DC into it from the external plug-in power source? (This individual circuit is fused at 3 amps.) Hoping to gain some knowledge before I fly it like this . Thanks - Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, "Magic Bike" Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? From: "Rick Lewis" Ricks right on the cranking of the engine with electronics on. The transient voltages spikes from the starter motor can be several hundred volts, bad news for radio's. Your hand held radio probably has a built in voltage regulator. But be sure to check your manual or Sporty's to verify this before trying it. Rick Lewis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226105#226105 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? From: Richard Girard Dennis, >From the JD-200 manual: Cigarette Lighter Power Adapter/Nicad Battery Charger (#8634A) Allows the JD-200 to be powered externally from a cigarette lighter in aircraft with 12, 24 or 28 Volt electrical systems (accepts input voltage of 10 to 30 Volts DC). Plugs into the side of the JD-200, which allows the unit to be powered with or without a battery pack attached. Also charges the optional Nicad Battery Pack (#8631A). Safe for use with the Alkaline Battery Pack. Power cord measures 6 ft. long. Note: Bold print done by me. If you have this adapter you can carefully open it up and look inside. I'll bet you a quarter that all you'll find is a small resistor and an LED. That s all there was in the adapter for my Lowrance 2000 GPS and my Icom radio. Al l voltage regulation is done internally to the device not in the adapter. Giv e Sporty's a call and I'll bet they tell you the same thing. It's a liability issue for the manufacturer. They're selling you a backup radio and the legal bills would just sky rocket if an adapter fried your radio when you needed it in an emergency. If Sporty's tells you it is as I think, you can save some money and panel space by foregoing the cigarette lighter socket. Find any old charger for any appliance that has the right diameter and length of plug that goes in the side of the radio. These can be found at DAV, Goodwill, etc for fifty cents to a dollar. Cut the transformer off and wire it up through a fuse directly into the airplane. Just make sure you know: 1. The polarity of the socket 2. Which wire goes to which part of the plug Rick Rick On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL < Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote: > Classification: * UNCLASSIFIED*** > > > Kolb Friends ' > > > I have a Sporty's-200 handheld radio that I use occasionally in my Kolb. > Up to now, I have always operated it using its own battery power. > > > Recently, I obtained a power cord to power the radio from an external DC > source. The cord plugs into the 12v DC cigar plug receptacle in my > Mark-III, and the other end has a small plug jack that plugs into the > radio. I figure this will help save the batteries in the radio, if I pow er > it from the aircraft 12v power system. > > > Here's my question: The plug jack on the radio says "9vDC" on it. Nine > volts?! > > The eight double-A batteries that make up the battery pack (at a volt and a > half each) totals 12 volts, so it's inconsistent why would the markings o n > the radio would say 9 volts. > > > Will it hurt this radio to run 12v DC into it from the external plug-in > power source? (This individual circuit is fused at 3 amps.) > > > Hoping to gain some knowledge before I fly it like this =85 > > > Thanks ' > > Dennis Kirby > > Mark-3, 912ul, "Magic Bike" > > Cedar Crest, NM > > Classification: * UNCLASSIFIED*** > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:16 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? If it was my radio, I'd operate it on 12VDC. 12VDC coming out of your on board aircraft battery is the same as 12vdc coming out of 8 AA bats. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 v is 12 v,,,,, however on my 912 the charging system runs at 13.8 v----------- call sporty and see what they recommend. Boyd. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:38 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 9-volt DC Power for a Handheld Radio? Most cars have circuit that interrupts power to radios while cranking. Wish my plane does. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Rick, my main switch for my radio's etc,,,, is a double throw on off on switch My starter switch does not get power until the radio's etc are off. 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