---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/24/09: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:48 AM - Re: Structural additions to wing? Power for a Kolbra? (Wayne McCullough) 2. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Fabric rubbing on cage tubes (Dana Hague) 3. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Fabric rubbing on cage tubes (robert bean) 4. 07:08 AM - Re: Structural additions to wing? Power for a Kolbra? (John Hauck) 5. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Fabric rubbing on cage tubes (Jack B. Hart) 6. 06:25 PM - A few photos (R. Hankins) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:55 AM PST US From: "Wayne McCullough" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Structural additions to wing? Power for a Kolbra? Ok guys, Still lurking in here....Still working on Kolbra #004.......using a 582 blue head ... I know that John H. and John W. were very close......... I had the opportunity to speak with John H. on several occasions at the sun-n-fun flyins over the years........He told me that the 582 will fly the Kolbra fine.........but, he used a Jabiru first (my original choice)....but was not happy with the performance of the engine on the airframe.......He went with the 912S because, his words were , using a larger prop due to gearbox means more push and less rpms.........aka going places affordably.......LOL.......We laughed about it and he did all of the research....... One of these days , John H. , I will get to meet you ........I fly out of the Briar Patch (9 GA1) which is 5 minutes from the house... Wayne McCullough ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:55 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Fabric rubbing on cage tubes At 11:39 PM 1/23/2009, possums wrote: > I think you might be wrong, I've used both on different Uls - My old > 1983 CGS Hawk used Dacron coverings - right?? Like sail cloth? >The Poly-Fiber method uses Poly-Brush followed by Poly-Spray... Well, I should have been more precise. The fabric you use in the Stits _process_, that you buy from Stits (Poly-Fiber, now) is polyseter fabric. Same for Ceconite, same fabric, though you have to buy it from Ceconite for the process to be "legal". I don't know if Stits and Ceconite do anything further to the base fabric (sizings or coatings) before selling it. Dacron is just another trade name for polyester fabric made by Dupont Corporation, though we use it interchangeably (and incorrectly) whether it was actually manufactured by Dupont or not, and sailcloth is usually polyester... lots of other ultralights use polyester sails, but without the "process" coatings. Same fabric, different process. -Dana -- "A dress makes no sense unless it inspires men to want to take it off you." ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:59 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Fabric rubbing on cage tubes and you can save money by using the generic dacron from ACS. Works the same. BB On 24, Jan 2009, at 9:43 AM, Dana Hague wrote: > > At 11:39 PM 1/23/2009, possums wrote: > >> I think you might be wrong, I've used both on different Uls - My >> old 1983 CGS Hawk used Dacron coverings - right?? Like sail cloth? >> The Poly-Fiber method uses Poly-Brush followed by Poly-Spray... > > Well, I should have been more precise. The fabric you use in the > Stits _process_, that you buy from Stits (Poly-Fiber, now) is > polyseter fabric. Same for Ceconite, same fabric, though you have > to buy it from Ceconite for the process to be "legal". I don't > know if Stits and Ceconite do anything further to the base fabric > (sizings or coatings) before selling it. Dacron is just another > trade name for polyester fabric made by Dupont Corporation, though > we use it interchangeably (and incorrectly) whether it was actually > manufactured by Dupont or not, and sailcloth is usually > polyester... lots of other ultralights use polyester sails, but > without the "process" coatings. Same fabric, different process. > > -Dana > > -- > "A dress makes no sense unless it inspires men to want to take it > off you." > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:10 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Structural additions to wing? Power for a Kolbra? Wayne: Hope to be at Sun and Fun in April. Briar Patch looks like the perfect airport. Its over there near my old sto mping grounds, Hunter Army Airfield. I did my instrument and advance rotar y wing training there. John W and I both went through the AH-1G Cobra Tran sition at Cobra Hall on Hunter. That's been 40 years ago. Got to fly a little yesterday. MKIII and 912ULS performed great. Made me feel good. I had not forgotten how to do it. I now have 303.0 hours on the engine and 2,871.5 hours on the airframe. An ybody got any more time than that on a Kolb? I haven't flown 10 hours sinc e I got back from the Kolb Homecoming last September. I think I will make up for it come Sun and Fun and the annual flight to Monument Valley and oth er parts West... Might even break 3,000 hours. john h mkIII - Watching the rain drops fall. I fly out of the Briar Patch (9 GA1) which is 5 minutes from the house... Wayne McCullough ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:03 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Fabric rubbing on cage tubes At 11:08 PM 1/23/09 -0600, you wrote: > >Haven't followed this thread closely, but do have a comment about fabric >wearing aluminum. It's likely not the covering doing the damage, but >grit carried by the covering as it moves relative to the tube. > >Most of the guys flying bigger experimentals know not to use nylon wire >ties directly on motor mounts because they can eat through the 4130 >steel. Dirt & grit get embedded in the nylon & if it moves, it acts like >a saw. This is a very real issue with any soft material moving against >metal in an a/c; I've had a fabric covered starter cable cut through an >aluminum oil drain-back tube on a Lyc. > Charlie, Cristal, and Kolbers, One thing to remember is that iron oxide and aluminum oxide are both abrasives, where aluminum oxide is the champ. This why if the fabric is fretting over aluminum tubing, a black powder will form. Add a little water or oil and it will run down the fabric. When you can see the black, it is the alumni oxide caught in the fabric that will rapidly wear or fret the aluminum tube over which the fabric has been stretched. Since you cannot get away from the fabric contacting the aluminum tube oxide coating, the only way to stop the fretting is to make sure the fabric cannot move. In Cristal's case I would blow the dust away from the tube and fabric and then lightly brush poly tack thinned with some MEK above the tube an on the inside of the fabric. This combination should help to re attach the fabric to the tube. Brushing it lightly will prevent a run down on the inside of the fabric that may show through. Then I would follow up with a second brushing of full strength poly tack. Then I would air brush the paint on the out side and go fly. Snowing a little Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: A few photos From: "R. Hankins" I finally got to go fly this afternoon after many weeks of fog and grey. It rained most of the day, but cleared up enough to be safe and legal this afternoon. It felt good to be flying and the scenery was great. I have 42 hrs on the 503 since the total rebuild this spring. It is finally feeling broken in and running just like it used to. In the cool air and with only six gallons on board at liftoff, I was climbing at 1400ft/min@55mph indicated. I reached pattern altitude 2/3 of the way down the runway. :-) Here is a link to a few pictures. http://www.new.facebook.com/album.php?aid 05666&l=1a5b4&id=1174278290 -------- Roger in Oregon 1992 KXP 503 - N1782C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226618#226618 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.