---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/11/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:22 AM - Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (Mike Welch) 2. 11:39 AM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (herb) 3. 12:33 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (John Hauck) 4. 12:34 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (John Hauck) 5. 12:36 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (russ kinne) 6. 02:35 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (zeprep251@aol.com) 7. 02:51 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (russ kinne) 8. 03:35 PM - Unbelievable Military Photos (Mike Welch) 9. 03:47 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (John Hauck) 10. 04:11 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (Jim Kmet) 11. 06:26 PM - Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos (Rick Lewis) 12. 07:25 PM - military photos (Mike Welch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:12 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos Kolb guys, I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the wings. Is there a proper way to drill the holes? What I mean is, should I drill all the holes in the ribs FIRST, and then melt the holes through the finished faric, with a soldering iron? Or, would it be better to do all the fabric, reinforcing tapes, etc, and then drill through a final layers? It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the holes in the ribs first. The reason I think this is because I can make a nice 90* drilling jig, to insure the holes are centered on the top of the rib. I'm afraid if I try to drill the holes after the fabric and tape is on, I run the risk of off-centered holes...making a lop-sided rivet. Anybody? Anybody? Thanks, Mike Welch MkIII finally (!!!) putting fabric on flaps. So far, Poly Fiber on ALL tailfeathers, fuselage, both ailerons, & one flap. One more flap, and then the wings!! It's about time!! I just received an email from my step-father, a WW II retired Lt Commander. He forwarded to me an email of some of the most awesome military photographs I've ever seen. (mostly flying photos) If you want to see them, I absolutely guarantee you'll be amazed, send me an email, and I'll forward them on to you. They WILL be worth your time, unless you're a tree hugging hippie! _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:03 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos Drill holes first...then burn through fabric after tautening...then reinforcement tapes..more burning...rivets,,,poly brush etc... Herb At 01:21 PM 2/11/2009, you wrote: > > >Kolb guys, > > > I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the wings. >Is there a proper way to drill the holes? What >I mean is, should I drill all the holes in the >ribs FIRST, and then melt the holes through the >finished faric, with a soldering iron? Or, >would it be better to do all the fabric, >reinforcing tapes, etc, and then drill through a final layers? > > It would seem to me the better way would be > to drill all the holes in the ribs first. The > reason I think this is because I can make a > nice 90* drilling jig, to insure the holes are > centered on the top of the rib. I'm afraid if > I try to drill the holes after the fabric and > tape is on, I run the risk of off-centered holes...making a lop-sided rivet. > > Anybody? Anybody? > >Thanks, >Mike Welch >MkIII finally (!!!) putting fabric on >flaps. So far, Poly Fiber on ALL tailfeathers, >fuselage, both ailerons, & one flap. One more >flap, and then the wings!! It's about time!! > > I just received an email from my step-father, a WW II retired Lt Commander. > > He forwarded to me an email of some of the > most awesome military photographs I've ever seen. >(mostly flying photos) > > If you want to see them, I absolutely > guarantee you'll be amazed, send me an email, > and I'll forward them on to you. They WILL be > worth your time, unless you're a tree hugging hippie! > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. >http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:19 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos > It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the holes in the ribs first. > > Thanks, > Mike Welch That's the way I do it. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:25 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos > Drill holes first...then burn through fabric > after tautening...then reinforcement tapes..more burning...rivets,,,poly > brush etc... Herb Herb: I burn once. Put a tick mark beside each rivet hole to help line up after the reinforcing tape is on. If hole location is questionable, can use a pick to help locate. Saves another operation. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:11 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos Mike Those are MY kinda pictures! -- pls send Thanx Russ On Feb 11, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Mike Welch wrote: > > > Kolb guys, > > > I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the > wings. > Is there a proper way to drill the holes? What I mean is, should I > drill all the holes in the ribs FIRST, and then melt the holes > through the finished faric, with a soldering iron? Or, would it be > better to do all the fabric, reinforcing tapes, etc, and then drill > through a final layers? > > It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the > holes in the ribs first. The reason I think this is because I can > make a nice 90* drilling jig, to insure the holes are centered on > the top of the rib. I'm afraid if I try to drill the holes after > the fabric and tape is on, I run the risk of off-centered > holes...making a lop-sided rivet. > > Anybody? Anybody? > > Thanks, > Mike Welch > MkIII finally (!!!) putting fabric on flaps. So far, Poly Fiber > on ALL tailfeathers, fuselage, both ailerons, & one flap. One more > flap, and then the wings!! It's about time!! > > I just received an email from my step-father, a WW II retired Lt > Commander. > > He forwarded to me an email of some of the most awesome military > photographs I've ever seen. > (mostly flying photos) > > If you want to see them, I absolutely guarantee you'll be amazed, > send me an email, and I'll forward them on to you. They WILL be > worth your time, unless you're a tree hugging hippie! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos From: zeprep251@aol.com You need to be able to get ALL the drillings out of the rib tubes by blowin g, beating on the the structure lightly to vibrate it or turning it over and over while doing the above.One little sharp chip will find it's way to a pr essure point in the fabric and=C2- cut a hole in it.You can find the holes with a straight pin or do it like John does.The drill can stick in the fabr ic and wad it up in a knot.Just my 2 cents worth. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- G.Aman FS2=C2- MK-3 =C2- -----Original Message----- From: russ kinne Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:35 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos =C2- Mike=C2- Those are MY kinda pictures! -- pls send=C2- Thanx=C2- Russ=C2- =C2- On Feb 11, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Mike Welch wrote:=C2- =C2- - >=C2- >=C2- > Kolb guys,=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the > wings .=C2- > Is there a proper way to drill the holes? What I mean is, should I > dr ill all the holes in the ribs FIRST, and then melt the holes > through the f inished faric, with a soldering iron? Or, would it be > better to do all th e fabric, reinforcing tapes, etc, and then drill > through a final layers? =C2- >=C2- > It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the > holes in the ribs first. The reason I think this is because I can > make a nice 90* drilling jig, to insure the holes are centered on > the top of the rib. I'm afraid if I try to drill the holes after > the fabric and tape is on, I run the risk of off-centered > holes...making a lop-sided rivet.=C2- >=C2- > Anybody? Anybody?=C2- >=C2- > Thanks,=C2- > Mike Welch=C2- > MkIII finally (!!!) putting fabric on flaps. So far, Poly Fiber > on ALL tailfeathers, fuselage, both ailerons, & one flap. One more > flap, and th en the wings!! It's about time!!=C2- >=C2- > I just received an email from my step-father, a WW II retired Lt > Comma nder.=C2- >=C2- > He forwarded to me an email of some of the most awesome military > photo graphs I've ever seen.=C2- > (mostly flying photos)=C2- >=C2- > If you want to see them, I absolutely guarantee you'll be amazed, > send me an email, and I'll forward them on to you. They WILL be > worth your ti me, unless you're a tree hugging hippie!=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > _________________________________________________________________=C2- > Windows Liv e=84=A2: Keep your life in sync.=C2- > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitwork s_022009=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- =C2- =C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- ===========C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:01 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos I assume everybody knows about greasing the drill bit to capture chips -- On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:31 PM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote: > You need to be able to get ALL the drillings out of the rib tubes > by blowing, beating on the the structure lightly to vibrate it or > turning it over and over while doing the above.One little sharp > chip will find it's way to a pressure point in the fabric and cut > a hole in it.You can find the holes with a straight pin or do it > like John does.The drill can stick in the fabric and wad it up in a > knot.Just my 2 cents worth. > G.Aman > FS2 MK-3 > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:39 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Unbelievable Military Photos Kolb list=2C I generally try NOT to post non-Kolb items on this list. Although I have received a few off-list requests to see these military photos=2C I decided to share them with everyone. If you take offense=2C sorry. I'll feel really rotten at your scolding. Trust me on that. If you've been in the military=2C some of these will=2C no doubt=2C bring back some fond memories. At the very least=2C we should be proud of those who are (and have) protecting our freedoms. Mike Welch MkIII PS. I've got TWO boys (in their 30's) in Afghanistan. I especially like t he saying at the bottom of the list of photos. "If you can read this...thank a TEACHER. If you can read this in English.. ..thank the Military. hoo rah! Unbelievable photos...click on all 3 (one at a time) These are great shots. Would have liked to be the photographer. http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_0 22009 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:58 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos Russ: Yes, that works good in other situations. When working with fabric, the last thing you want around it is grease. Mig ht have a hard time getting the grease cleaned up prior to fabric applicati on. john h mkIII I assume everybody knows about greasing the drill bit to capture chips -- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:16 PM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos Mike, drill your holes 1st!!Use a string going across the tops & mark them , from root to tip, so they are all in a "Pretty-Pretty" line. Then drill them all with your 90 degree jig you mentioned. After drilling, blow out all the rib tubing with a compressor. Then stuff a tiny piece of fabric in each tube that you drilled, so that when you pull a rivet, if that little ball of the rivet falls off in the tube, it won`t find its way into the interior of the wing. If any shavings or rivet tips get into the wing, they will find somewhere comfortable to rest, & each time you fly, tiny vibrations will cause them to wear through the fabric from the inside out. Jim Kmet MK-3C Soon to be flying with a 912. Cookeville, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Welch" Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos > > > Kolb guys, > > > I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the wings. > Is there a proper way to drill the holes? What I mean is, should I drill > all the holes in the ribs FIRST, and then melt the holes through the > finished faric, with a soldering iron? Or, would it be better to do all > the fabric, reinforcing tapes, etc, and then drill through a final layers? > > It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the holes in the > ribs first. The reason I think this is because I can make a nice 90* > drilling jig, to insure the holes are centered on the top of the rib. I'm > afraid if I try to drill the holes after the fabric and tape is on, I run > the risk of off-centered holes...making a lop-sided rivet. > > Anybody? Anybody? > > Thanks, > Mike Welch > MkIII finally (!!!) putting fabric on flaps. So far, Poly Fiber on ALL > tailfeathers, fuselage, both ailerons, & one flap. One more flap, and > then the wings!! It's about time!! > > I just received an email from my step-father, a WW II retired Lt > Commander. > > He forwarded to me an email of some of the most awesome military > photographs I've ever seen. > (mostly flying photos) > > If you want to see them, I absolutely guarantee you'll be amazed, send me > an email, and I'll forward them on to you. They WILL be worth your time, > unless you're a tree hugging hippie! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:46 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos From: "Rick Lewis" I am attaching two pictures of how Brian, at Kolb factory, handles the loose pieces that may remain in the tubes. He probably blows the tubes out first then he seals all the ends as show in the pictures. Silicone rubber would probably be good to use here. Rick Lewis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229897#229897 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:38 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: military photos Group=2C My apologies for another un-Kolb post=2C but I have had a few people ask for the photos to be forwarded to them=2C by returning the Kolb list email to me. If you guys would check to very bottom of that email entitled "Unbelievab le Military Photos" I sent=2C you will see the three links to the photos. As you were. Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.