Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:35 AM - M3X drag strut (icrashrc)
2. 04:04 AM - M3X drag strut (william sullivan)
3. 04:16 AM - rats (william sullivan)
4. 06:05 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (robert bean)
5. 06:54 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (russ kinne)
6. 07:12 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (John Hauck)
7. 07:17 AM - Re: AGM Battery & charger info (Charlie England)
8. 07:53 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (Dennis Souder)
9. 08:08 AM - Re: M3X drag strut/MV 2009 (John Hauck)
10. 08:20 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (Jack B. Hart)
11. 09:17 AM - Re: A better gas can (boyd)
12. 09:20 AM - Re: M3X drag strut/MV 2009 (Dennis Souder)
13. 09:31 AM - NOT KOLB RELATED unless you fly in icing conditions (Thom Riddle)
14. 12:59 PM - Re: Kolb history (N111KX (Kip))
15. 03:05 PM - Re: M3X drag strut (cspoke)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted here. I see a
row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I don't remember there ever
being any talk of this here on the list nor is there any mention of this in
the Kolb supplied building manual.
The obvious questions are;
Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required?
If so what rivets at what spacing?
Is there more than one row of rivets?
If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise sound
piece of tubing? Thanks,
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230196#230196
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
- Scott- I have two sets of mid '80's Firestar wings, and both sets have
the rivets as shown.- They go from the root rib to the first rib, top and
bottom, spaced 3 inches apart.- Mine are 5 rib wings.- The rivets are
1/8" stainless.-
-
-------------------------
----------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
----------------- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
----------------- FS 447
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
John H.- The electric rat zapper is available from Country Home Products at
: www.drpower.com-- Telephone number: 1-800-376-9637
- Item #23269
- Price: $59.95
-
- They are out of Vermont.- Excellent service, good people, great equip
ment- I have had one of their chippers for years.- Get on their mailing l
ist.- All kinds of stuff for around the house, farm, or airfield.- Lots
of fueling goodies, too.-
-
-------------------------
-------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------- Windsor Locks,
Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------- FS 447
do not archive
-
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X drag strut |
Only necessary in the sleeved/telescoping area.
BB
On 14, Feb 2009, at 6:34 AM, icrashrc wrote:
>
> These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted
> here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I
> don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list
> nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual.
> The obvious questions are;
> Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required?
> If so what rivets at what spacing?
> Is there more than one row of rivets?
>
> If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
> strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an
> otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
>
> --------
> Scott
>
> www.ill-EagleAviation.com
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230196#230196
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/
> kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/
> kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X drag strut |
Isn't there a stiffener of some sort INside the tube?? U-channel or
even angle?
do not archive
On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:34 AM, icrashrc wrote:
>
> These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted
> here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I
> don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list
> nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual.
> The obvious questions are;
> Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required?
> If so what rivets at what spacing?
> Is there more than one row of rivets?
>
> If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
> strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an
> otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
>
> --------
> Scott
>
> www.ill-EagleAviation.com
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230196#230196
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/
> kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/
> kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X drag strut |
> If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
> strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise
> sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
>
> --------
> Scott
Scott:
This procedure, for making up the drag struts, has been used since Ultrastar
days.
My guess would be to give it a little more strength to keep it in column by
tying all the tubes together.
I don't know what your plans and instructions look at, but understand they
are about as good as the Kolbra instructions. If so, the spacing is 3" on
each side, top and bottom, alternating the rivet holes.
john h
mkIII
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: AGM Battery & charger info |
battery & charger info:
>
>
>
>> Is a special charger needed for AGM batteries such as the Odyssey? At
>> www.odyessy.com <http://www.odyessy.com/> they recommend two types,
>> but I?m wondering why something like a Schumacher
>> http://store.schumachermart.com/se-1010-2.html won?t work just as well.
>
> ALL battery technologies benefit from the use of
> "smart" battery chargers that offer charge, top-off
> and maintenance cycles. The charger you cited
> doesn't cite this feature.
>
> A really nice, low cost Schumacher product sold
> at Wallmart is the 1562 series critters cited in
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Multiple_Battery_Myths_A.pdf
>
>
> and illustrated here:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_Chargers/1562.jpg
>
>
> Schumacher makes a range of smart chargers identifiable
> by the word "maintainer" in their descriptions. These
> include the SC600, SC1000, SC1200, etc.
>
> The idea that one should finely tune a plug-in-the-wall
> battery charger to the brand/technology of the battery
> is not supported by the way we charge batteries in our
> vehicles and expect years of service life.
>
> Consider also a variety of small battery charger/maintainers
> like:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Minder/
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr/Battery_Tender-Junior.jpeg
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Scott,
John's guess is correct: Riveting the two tubes together makes them
stronger: It makes them stronger in compression and bending. Your concern
about the holes weakening the tubes would be correct only if exceedingly
high tension loads were imposed - but this is not the case for their
application here.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut
> If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
> strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise
> sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
>
> --------
> Scott
Scott:
This procedure, for making up the drag struts, has been used since Ultrastar
days.
My guess would be to give it a little more strength to keep it in column by
tying all the tubes together.
I don't know what your plans and instructions look at, but understand they
are about as good as the Kolbra instructions. If so, the spacing is 3" on
each side, top and bottom, alternating the rivet holes.
john h
mkIII
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X drag strut/MV 2009 |
> John's guess is correct: Riveting the two tubes together makes them
> stronger:
>
> Dennis
Thanks for the reply, Dennis:
While I have your attention, Monument Valley will be here before you know
it, 15-17 May 2009. You are cordially invited to join us for our 7th
Annual Unplanned/Unorganized Kolb Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah.
I don't know about you all, but I am going to dedicate this year's flyin to
John W. He was one of the charter members, having attended everyone since
we started in 2003. I know he looked forward to it and enjoyed it as much
or more than I do.
Brother Jim is up at Homer Kolb's visiting. I got a chance to remind Homer
about MV. He wants to come out and join us this year. If he can make it,
he and Clara will be there. I know a lot of you have met Homer, but a lot
of our western friends have not. If Homer makes it, this would be a great
time to share our passion of flying his airplanes. If Dennis could make it,
it would be doubly so.
john h
mkIII - Fogged in at hauck's holler, alabama.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X drag strut |
At 03:34 AM 2/14/09 -0800, you wrote:
>
>If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
>strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise sound
piece of tubing? Thanks,
>
>--------
Scott,
It is a design solution. Drag struts are loaded in compression. If you
design to the compressive load times a safety factor, the material cross
sectional area will be quite small. If you used a solid rod of this cross
sectional area or even a thin walled tube, the material would fail by
buckling when placed under the design load. The only way to reduce this
tendency is to increase the outside diameter of the drag strut. But if one
does, you end up with much more cross sectional area to handle the
compressive loads and unnecessary weight. The more efficient weight wise
way to do it is to use a thin wall tube of the correct cross sectional area
to handle the compressive loads. Then add over it another larger OD thin
wall tube to handle the buckling component.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | A better gas can |
Awhile back Grant, I think it was Grant, anyway, asked about better and
easier ways to fuel his Kolb. I wrote the attached article for EAA Chapter
88's newsletter over the last few days and did the testing this morning so I
could wrap it up.
Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Rick
I am sure your idea made a great difference.. BUT there is an easier
way... if you put the long extension on the self venting fuel can, ( say
a 3 to 4 footer) then place the extension in your plane's tank, lift your
portable tank higher than the one in the plane and start pouring. About
the time the tank starts to show a vacuum, loosen the big nut holding the
spout on just a bit. The vacuum in the tank will pull air in from the
loose fitting and you wont spill any on the ground, remember you will have
to tighten the large nut a bit as the tank is about empty, you can tell when
to do this by the sound of the air bubbles going into the portable tank
Boyd
Ps if you really like the jb weld idea------- I would screw the fitting
into the tank, then remove it and put the jb on the fitting, then screw it
in again,,, this way putting the jb weld in the threads and under the
flange.
My $0.02 worth..
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | M3X drag strut/MV 2009 |
John,
Thank you for the invitation. Don't know about my schedule for this summer
as it involves the family (mostly my teen daughter's schedule, just 2 more
years and she'll be off to somewhere). I'd like to get to SNF this year. I
was layed-off a week ago and so I need to figure out what to do next. (We
manufactured printing press for newspapers mainly; demand for these have
been declining over the past several years, the financial meltdown was the
coup de grace.) It was a very good job and I learned some awesome
engineering programs. I look forward to see you and any Kolbers that might
make their way south to SNF this year.
Dennis
Do not archive
While I have your attention, Monument Valley will be here before you know
it, 15-17 May 2009. You are cordially invited to join us for our 7th
Annual Unplanned/Unorganized Kolb Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah.
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | NOT KOLB RELATED unless you fly in icing conditions |
Probably too early to tell but the video at the following link MAY explain why
the Continental Flt 3407 crashed near Buffalo thursday night. It will be interesting
to see what the NTSB report states.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230235#230235
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kolb history |
G.Aman, I was thinking of the aircraft serial number which was FS-705. The stamped
cage number is 12XX as I recall. I'll have to note it next time I am at the
airport...
Kip
--------
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230257#230257
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X drag strut |
Scott,
I discovered the same thing as you. The manual does not address the drag strut
rivets but I also noticed them on the Kolb demo plane. I searched and eventually
did find the reference to them on page 6 of the large two page folded plan
drawings. I ended up using these sheets for the majority of my building. Let
me know if you do not have this sheet and I can send it to you. It specifies the
spacing etc...
--------
Craig Spoke
Mk 111 Xtra VW (in the works)
Lillian, AL
cspoke@gulftel.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230266#230266
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|