---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/14/09: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:35 AM - M3X drag strut (icrashrc) 2. 04:04 AM - M3X drag strut (william sullivan) 3. 04:16 AM - rats (william sullivan) 4. 06:05 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (robert bean) 5. 06:54 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (russ kinne) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (John Hauck) 7. 07:17 AM - Re: AGM Battery & charger info (Charlie England) 8. 07:53 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (Dennis Souder) 9. 08:08 AM - Re: M3X drag strut/MV 2009 (John Hauck) 10. 08:20 AM - Re: M3X drag strut (Jack B. Hart) 11. 09:17 AM - Re: A better gas can (boyd) 12. 09:20 AM - Re: M3X drag strut/MV 2009 (Dennis Souder) 13. 09:31 AM - NOT KOLB RELATED unless you fly in icing conditions (Thom Riddle) 14. 12:59 PM - Re: Kolb history (N111KX (Kip)) 15. 03:05 PM - Re: M3X drag strut (cspoke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:44 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut From: "icrashrc" These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual. The obvious questions are; Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required? If so what rivets at what spacing? Is there more than one row of rivets? If it's not required anyone care to speculate on strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks, -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230196#230196 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:12 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut - Scott- I have two sets of mid '80's Firestar wings, and both sets have the rivets as shown.- They go from the root rib to the first rib, top and bottom, spaced 3 inches apart.- Mine are 5 rib wings.- The rivets are 1/8" stainless.- - ------------------------- ----------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ----------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ----------------- FS 447 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:22 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: rats John H.- The electric rat zapper is available from Country Home Products at : www.drpower.com-- Telephone number: 1-800-376-9637 - Item #23269 - Price: $59.95 - - They are out of Vermont.- Excellent service, good people, great equip ment- I have had one of their chippers for years.- Get on their mailing l ist.- All kinds of stuff for around the house, farm, or airfield.- Lots of fueling goodies, too.- - ------------------------- -------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- -------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- -------------------- FS 447 do not archive - ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:42 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut Only necessary in the sleeved/telescoping area. BB On 14, Feb 2009, at 6:34 AM, icrashrc wrote: > > These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted > here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I > don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list > nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual. > The obvious questions are; > Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required? > If so what rivets at what spacing? > Is there more than one row of rivets? > > If it's not required anyone care to speculate on > strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an > otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks, > > -------- > Scott > > www.ill-EagleAviation.com > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230196#230196 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ > kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ > kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:23 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut Isn't there a stiffener of some sort INside the tube?? U-channel or even angle? do not archive On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:34 AM, icrashrc wrote: > > These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted > here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I > don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list > nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual. > The obvious questions are; > Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required? > If so what rivets at what spacing? > Is there more than one row of rivets? > > If it's not required anyone care to speculate on > strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an > otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks, > > -------- > Scott > > www.ill-EagleAviation.com > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230196#230196 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ > kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ > kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:31 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut > If it's not required anyone care to speculate on > strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise > sound piece of tubing? Thanks, > > -------- > Scott Scott: This procedure, for making up the drag struts, has been used since Ultrastar days. My guess would be to give it a little more strength to keep it in column by tying all the tubes together. I don't know what your plans and instructions look at, but understand they are about as good as the Kolbra instructions. If so, the spacing is 3" on each side, top and bottom, alternating the rivet holes. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:02 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AGM Battery & charger info battery & charger info: > > > >> Is a special charger needed for AGM batteries such as the Odyssey? At >> www.odyessy.com they recommend two types, >> but I?m wondering why something like a Schumacher >> http://store.schumachermart.com/se-1010-2.html won?t work just as well. > > ALL battery technologies benefit from the use of > "smart" battery chargers that offer charge, top-off > and maintenance cycles. The charger you cited > doesn't cite this feature. > > A really nice, low cost Schumacher product sold > at Wallmart is the 1562 series critters cited in > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Multiple_Battery_Myths_A.pdf > > > and illustrated here: > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_Chargers/1562.jpg > > > Schumacher makes a range of smart chargers identifiable > by the word "maintainer" in their descriptions. These > include the SC600, SC1000, SC1200, etc. > > The idea that one should finely tune a plug-in-the-wall > battery charger to the brand/technology of the battery > is not supported by the way we charge batteries in our > vehicles and expect years of service life. > > Consider also a variety of small battery charger/maintainers > like: > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Minder/ > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr/Battery_Tender-Junior.jpeg > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:18 AM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut Hi Scott, John's guess is correct: Riveting the two tubes together makes them stronger: It makes them stronger in compression and bending. Your concern about the holes weakening the tubes would be correct only if exceedingly high tension loads were imposed - but this is not the case for their application here. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut > If it's not required anyone care to speculate on > strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise > sound piece of tubing? Thanks, > > -------- > Scott Scott: This procedure, for making up the drag struts, has been used since Ultrastar days. My guess would be to give it a little more strength to keep it in column by tying all the tubes together. I don't know what your plans and instructions look at, but understand they are about as good as the Kolbra instructions. If so, the spacing is 3" on each side, top and bottom, alternating the rivet holes. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:52 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut/MV 2009 > John's guess is correct: Riveting the two tubes together makes them > stronger: > > Dennis Thanks for the reply, Dennis: While I have your attention, Monument Valley will be here before you know it, 15-17 May 2009. You are cordially invited to join us for our 7th Annual Unplanned/Unorganized Kolb Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah. I don't know about you all, but I am going to dedicate this year's flyin to John W. He was one of the charter members, having attended everyone since we started in 2003. I know he looked forward to it and enjoyed it as much or more than I do. Brother Jim is up at Homer Kolb's visiting. I got a chance to remind Homer about MV. He wants to come out and join us this year. If he can make it, he and Clara will be there. I know a lot of you have met Homer, but a lot of our western friends have not. If Homer makes it, this would be a great time to share our passion of flying his airplanes. If Dennis could make it, it would be doubly so. john h mkIII - Fogged in at hauck's holler, alabama. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:02 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut At 03:34 AM 2/14/09 -0800, you wrote: > >If it's not required anyone care to speculate on >strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks, > >-------- Scott, It is a design solution. Drag struts are loaded in compression. If you design to the compressive load times a safety factor, the material cross sectional area will be quite small. If you used a solid rod of this cross sectional area or even a thin walled tube, the material would fail by buckling when placed under the design load. The only way to reduce this tendency is to increase the outside diameter of the drag strut. But if one does, you end up with much more cross sectional area to handle the compressive loads and unnecessary weight. The more efficient weight wise way to do it is to use a thin wall tube of the correct cross sectional area to handle the compressive loads. Then add over it another larger OD thin wall tube to handle the buckling component. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:14 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: A better gas can Awhile back Grant, I think it was Grant, anyway, asked about better and easier ways to fuel his Kolb. I wrote the attached article for EAA Chapter 88's newsletter over the last few days and did the testing this morning so I could wrap it up. Rick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick I am sure your idea made a great difference.. BUT there is an easier way... if you put the long extension on the self venting fuel can, ( say a 3 to 4 footer) then place the extension in your plane's tank, lift your portable tank higher than the one in the plane and start pouring. About the time the tank starts to show a vacuum, loosen the big nut holding the spout on just a bit. The vacuum in the tank will pull air in from the loose fitting and you wont spill any on the ground, remember you will have to tighten the large nut a bit as the tank is about empty, you can tell when to do this by the sound of the air bubbles going into the portable tank Boyd Ps if you really like the jb weld idea------- I would screw the fitting into the tank, then remove it and put the jb on the fitting, then screw it in again,,, this way putting the jb weld in the threads and under the flange. My $0.02 worth.. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:07 AM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: M3X drag strut/MV 2009 John, Thank you for the invitation. Don't know about my schedule for this summer as it involves the family (mostly my teen daughter's schedule, just 2 more years and she'll be off to somewhere). I'd like to get to SNF this year. I was layed-off a week ago and so I need to figure out what to do next. (We manufactured printing press for newspapers mainly; demand for these have been declining over the past several years, the financial meltdown was the coup de grace.) It was a very good job and I learned some awesome engineering programs. I look forward to see you and any Kolbers that might make their way south to SNF this year. Dennis Do not archive While I have your attention, Monument Valley will be here before you know it, 15-17 May 2009. You are cordially invited to join us for our 7th Annual Unplanned/Unorganized Kolb Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: NOT KOLB RELATED unless you fly in icing conditions From: "Thom Riddle" Probably too early to tell but the video at the following link MAY explain why the Continental Flt 3407 crashed near Buffalo thursday night. It will be interesting to see what the NTSB report states. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946 do not archive -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230235#230235 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb history From: "N111KX (Kip)" G.Aman, I was thinking of the aircraft serial number which was FS-705. The stamped cage number is 12XX as I recall. I'll have to note it next time I am at the airport... Kip -------- Kip Firestar II, N111KX Waiex, N111YX Quickie 1, N111QX Atlanta Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230257#230257 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:23 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: M3X drag strut From: "cspoke" Scott, I discovered the same thing as you. The manual does not address the drag strut rivets but I also noticed them on the Kolb demo plane. I searched and eventually did find the reference to them on page 6 of the large two page folded plan drawings. I ended up using these sheets for the majority of my building. Let me know if you do not have this sheet and I can send it to you. It specifies the spacing etc... -------- Craig Spoke Mk 111 Xtra VW (in the works) Lillian, AL cspoke@gulftel.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230266#230266 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.