Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - Re: Re: weight question (pj.ladd)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: firestar first flight (N111KX (Kip))
3. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: xtra wingtip mods (John Hauck)
4. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: weight question (John Hauck)
5. 09:12 AM - Re: weight question (JetPilot)
6. 10:25 AM - FireFly Stall Pre-Buffet (Jack B. Hart)
7. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: weight question (pj.ladd)
8. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: weight question (John Hauck)
9. 07:33 PM - Re: xtra wingtip mods (icrashrc)
10. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: xtra wingtip mods (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: weight question |
How do you determine "natural buffet speed?>>
Hi John,
it is just a note of the speed at which the plane shakes to tell you to
drop the nose a tad or you wil stall. It is just one of the boxes that
needs ticking for the annual check.
No idea what use is made of the information. I suppose if you had a
plane which gave no warning of an incipient stall it would be worth
knowing.
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: firestar first flight |
Great job, John!
Thanks for bringing another Kolb into the world... [Laughing]
Kip
--------
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231794#231794
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: xtra wingtip mods |
> Aileron mass balances are tested and built.
>
> http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/AileronMassBalance.htm
>
> I also started the page on the wing center section(gap fill).
>
> http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/WingCenterSection.htm
>
> Scott
Morning Scott:
Looks good.
When I built my mkIII in 1991, I knew I needed aileron counter balance
weights. Both my Ultrastar and Firestar suffered from aileron flutter. I
could not convince Kolb Aircraft I had a flutter problem, so I designed and
built my own. Wish I had a photo of them. They were pretty. Built similar
to your design, I used 1/8" aluminum plate instead of 4130 streamlined
tubing. My weight was tubular with a turned round nose and tapered tail. I
attached them to the inboard end of the aileron. Early on, during testing,
I experienced severe aileron flutter them installed. Happened to be at the
local airport, landed, and promptly removed them. Flew to Lakeland, Homer's
in PA, and OSH, in 1993, always sitting on the edge of my seat trying to
keep the mkIII close to 80 mph. A couple over and she would start to
flutter. Had a hell of a time trying to fly off a Cessna 210, at OSH, doing
the photo shoot. He was trying to slow down to 80 and I had to fly faster
than 80 to stay up with him. Think it was Lakeland 1994, Dick Rahill had
been out flying the Firestar, got caught is a typical Lakeland wind storm,
was trying to beat feet back to the UL strip, and got into very severe
aileron flutter. Now Kolb Aircraft believed their airplanes were
susceptible to aileron flutter. In a matter of days I had a copy of the new
aileron counter balance weights designed and built for the FS. Their
factory mkIII never fluttered and they were not convinced it needed them. I
flew with the FS counter balance weights on mty 17,400 mile trip to Alaska
and around the country in 1994. They were a blessing. My mkIII has never
had a hint of aileron flutter since I installed them. Made my flying 100%
more comfortable. Soon after they designed and built aileron counter
balance weights for the mkIII.
I really like the center section. Wish I had one similar. Being an
amateur, when I built my mkIII, I ended up with the windshield about 6"
behind the leading edge of the center section. This is a very effect air
scoop, dead air. Randy, at TNK, built me a fairing, but during finishing it
ended up not fitting correctly. Another area of dead air is behind the
doors in the area of both rear quarter windows. Brother Jim and I have
talked about the fix for this many times, but never get around to doing it.
We think a slat, similar to those used on the OH-58 (Bell Jet Ranger) would
work on the sides, and a lexan or sheet metal fairing to kill the hole
between the windshield and leading edge of the center section would fix that
area of drag. How much more cruise speed would it give us? Don't know, but
would be bound to improve some. I lost 5 mph top end installing the 8"
Maule Tundra Tail Wheel, but I don't want to give it up because it works so
well on the ground. Has tapered roller bearings in the pivot and lasts much
longer than the bushed pivots.
Oh well, I am happy with an 80 mph cruise. That has not changed. If I am
patient, I eventually get every where I want to go.
Good work guys,
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: weight question |
Patrick:
The reason I asked was, never flown any Kolb that gave any warning of an im
pending stall except the airspeed indicator. They go into the mush with no
warning, except ASI, and by this time you are stalling.
Maybe some VG equipped Kolbs give a prestall buffet, similar to a Cessna.
I don't know. The only Kolb I flew with VG's gave no warning. Seemed to s
tall like all the other Kolbs.
john h
mkIII
it is just a note of the speed at which the plane shakes to tell you to
drop the nose a tad or you wil stall. It is just one of the boxes that nee
ds ticking for the annual check.
No idea what use is made of the information. I suppose if you had a plane
which gave no warning of an incipient stall it would be worth knowing.
Pat
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: weight question |
I don't feel a prestall buffet in my Kolb, even with VG's. The stall is very hard
to make happen, the AOA has to be ridiculously high, but when it gets to just
below 30 MPH, the stall just happens, the nose drops a bit, and its flying
again almost immediately. Everything is smooth and controls are effective before
and throughout the stall. I have only stalled my Kolb power off, with power,
the nose would be so high a stall would become an aerobatic maneuver.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231824#231824
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| Subject: | FireFly Stall Pre-Buffet |
Kolbers,
Before I offset the thrust line, the FireFly would stall/mush straight
ahead. After I lowered and offset the thrust line to get more air over the
horizontal tail surfaces and to center the ball without a tab on the rudder,
things changed. The thrust line has been moved to the left. This gives the
left wing a little more lift than the right. At idle and pulling the stick
slowly back the FireFly right wing will buffet lightly and then falls off to
the right. With power on, the buffeting is much more pronounced. It gives
an early warning, to not pull the stick further back. If you do, it will
continue to buck with increasing amplitude until the right wing stalls
continuously and over you go.
This is the disadvantage of an off set thrust line to trim out the FireFly
at cruise. Use of a rudder trim tab instead of offset thrust line would
solve this problem.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: weight question |
never flown any Kolb that gave any warning of an impending stall>>
Hi John,
you are quite right as usual. My Xtra just mushes at the approach of a
stall. I have never mistreated it badly enough to suddenly fall into a
full stall and I suspect I would have to be very hamhanded to make it do
so. However the annual check form is not only designed for Kolbs but for
the full range of microlights, light aircraft, vintage aircraft and kit
planes which the LAA oversees on behalf of the CAA. If I don`t put
something in the box they will send it back.
I am a bit surprised that your plane when fully loaded with all your
long distance gear doesn`t sharpen up the usual mush into a `proper`
stall. Just shows well Homers wing performs, a real weight lifter.
Cheers
Pat
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: weight question |
Patrick:
Another reason why I put so much faith in this old bird to get me there and
get me home.
Yes, Homer's wing is a "real" weight lifter.
john h
mkIII
I am a bit surprised that your plane when fully loaded with all your lon
g distance gear doesn`t sharpen up the usual mush into a `proper` stall. J
ust shows well Homers wing performs, a real weight lifter.
Cheers
Pat
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: xtra wingtip mods |
John,
Thanks for the words of wisdom. Sometimes we forget how much of a test pilot the
was required as the earlier designs evolved.
I'm sure you now know the reason your first mass balances were ineffective was
because of the inboard mounting position. That allowed the LE tube to act as a
spring and could have well made the problem worse instead of better.
We used your current mass balances for a start on weight needed. I calculated the
weight of yours, added a fudge factor, and sized ours to be a little heavier.
I'll be able to drill out some of the lead if i need to after the ailerons
are covered and painted.
I'll add more info on the center section in the next day or two. I have Paul writing
that up for me. It's been a pain in the rear but we both think it will work
out well.
You're right about the area behind the doors. Getting the air to turn there would,
if nothing else, help feed air to the bottom half of the prop. Clean air to
the prop it always good! We may look at trying something it that area ourselves
but not until after the plane is finished and flying.
5mph from just the tail-wheel is a lot!
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231955#231955
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: xtra wingtip mods |
> 5mph from just the tail-wheel is a lot!
>
> --------
> Scott
Indicated airspeed. May be like me, getting old and unreliable. ;-)
It is a rather large tail wheel compared to the first one I had on this
mkIII. It was the same as what I had on my original Firestar. The
snowmobile bogey wheel. Didn't last long though. Went through a lot of
tailwheels until I hit on the present one. Took Maule that long to design
and produce something that would last me more than a year or two, back when
I was flying a bit.
john h
mkIII
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