Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Re: Alaska 2009 (Thom Riddle)
2. 04:10 AM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (Dana Hague)
3. 05:03 AM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (Jim Kmet)
4. 06:17 AM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (Jim Kmet)
5. 06:21 AM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (Richard Girard)
6. 07:08 AM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (lucien)
7. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: Alaska 2009 (Jack B. Hart)
8. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Alaska 2009 (robert bean)
9. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Alaska 2009 (John Hauck)
10. 07:55 AM - Re: Alaska 2009 (Thom Riddle)
11. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (John Hauck)
12. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Alaska 2009 (John Hauck)
13. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Alaska 2009 (Jack B. Hart)
14. 08:53 AM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (lucien)
15. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (John Hauck)
16. 09:56 AM - Getting bolts (Mike Welch)
17. 10:19 AM - Re: Getting bolts (lucien)
18. 10:19 AM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (Dana Hague)
19. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Getting bolts (Larry Cottrell)
20. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: Getting bolts (Richard Girard)
21. 12:45 PM - Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time (lucien)
22. 02:03 PM - Fat Cat solution (cristalclear13)
23. 02:43 PM - Re: Getting bolts (lucien)
24. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Getting bolts (frank.goodnight)
25. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Getting bolts (John Hauck)
26. 04:53 PM - Douglas, Georgia Fly-In (cristalclear13)
27. 05:29 PM - Re: Kolb List: Getting bolts (william sullivan)
28. 05:33 PM - Re: Kolb List: Fat Cat solution (william sullivan)
29. 06:55 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (Mike Welch)
30. 07:25 PM - Re: Kolb List: Fat Cat solution (cristalclear13)
31. 07:40 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (Dana Hague)
32. 07:48 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (herb)
33. 07:50 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (Larry Cottrell)
34. 08:16 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
35. 08:26 PM - Re: Douglas, Georgia Fly-In (John Hauck)
36. 08:49 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (John Hauck)
37. 09:11 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (John Hauck)
38. 09:27 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (herb)
39. 09:29 PM - Chuck's selling CGS Hawk (TheWanderingWench)
40. 09:29 PM - Experimental aircraft (Mike Welch)
41. 09:55 PM - Re: Experimental aircraft (John Hauck)
42. 10:02 PM - Fw: Experimental aircraft (John Hauck)
43. 10:47 PM - Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? (jerb)
44. 11:47 PM - Re: Re: Alaska 2009 (Tony Oldman)
Message 1
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John,
I've written four articles that were published in EAA's Light Sport Magazine over
the last couple of years. I got paid. If they like what you send them, and
you ask for payment, they will pay.... not a lot but it makes it worthwhile. Contact
Mary Jones if you are interested. A heads up, they don't do much editing,
so your finished copy, at least the words, need to be "reader ready". The only
editing I've seen in my articles was injecting errors that were not in the
copy I sent them :-).
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232903#232903
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
At 10:49 PM 3/2/2009, lucien wrote:
>My question to ya'll is, what size and grade of bolts do you use to attach
>the extension to the flange? i.e. length below the head, length of shank,
>length of threaded portion? As for grade, I think the main options for
>metric are 8.8, 10.9 and 12.9 (and stainless steel).
>I talked to Daryl today about this on the phone, he told me they needed to
>be about 1 1/2" long and grade 8...
Without getting into what grade to hold your prop on (because I don't know):
AN bolts (which have been used to hold on props for years) aren't graded
per se, but are roughly equivalent to U.S. Grade 5, which is equivalent to
metric grade 8.8. Grade 8 is equivalent to metric 10.9. There is no
direct U.S. equivalent for 12.9, which is a very high strength bolt that I
would think would too brittle for a prop application.
-Dana
--
Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
At the recomendation of the guy that makes the Sabre prop extensions, (per
Travis' instructions)Get the measurements you want, the call Mayland
metrics & order either grade 8 or grade 5 from them. Thats what I just did &
they are great to work with & order from. They will take your U.S.
measurements & convert them to metric & ship them right out.
http://mdmetric.com/indexg.html?gclid=CPajwc7V9ZcCFQazsgodwk2RDA
Jim Kmet
Cookeville , TN
MK-3C soon to start the 912
Warp & Sabre combo
(All my measurements are at the airport, & won`t be out there fore a few
more days when it finally warms up)
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:49 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: warp drive extension again - bolts this time
>
> Hi all,
>
> I posted this over on the titan list, but I know some of you guys run the
> warp drive prop with Warp's 3" extension, so Im cuttin-and-pastin my query
> here as well.
>
> I've bitten the bullet and am replacing my IVO with a warp drive and 3"
> extension. My 912's prop flange has the lugs pressed into the holes in the
> outermost ring. These holes are threaded with 8mm x 1.25 pitch threads.
>
> My question to ya'll is, what size and grade of bolts do you use to attach
> the extension to the flange? i.e. length below the head, length of shank,
> length of threaded portion? As for grade, I think the main options for
> metric are 8.8, 10.9 and 12.9 (and stainless steel).
>
> I talked to Daryl today about this on the phone, he told me they needed to
> be about 1 1/2" long and grade 8. The grading system is different for 8mm
> bolts tho.
>
> It looks like M8 x 40 bolts fit what Daryl was describing. He said he
> didn't have any, so I'm trying scare up a set of correct bolts when the
> prop comes in next week. I have found socket-head bolts that seem to be
> exactly right according to his description, but I'm not sure of the grade
> I should get.
>
> I might call him again tomorrow to ask if what I have will work, but don't
> want to pester him unecessarily if I don't have to ;).
>
> Thanks,
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232877#232877
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
Sorry, thats MARYLAND metrics
Jim
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Kmet" <jlsk1@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: warp drive extension again - bolts this time
>
> At the recomendation of the guy that makes the Sabre prop extensions, (per
> Travis' instructions)Get the measurements you want, the call Mayland
> metrics & order either grade 8 or grade 5 from them. Thats what I just did
> & they are great to work with & order from. They will take your U.S.
> measurements & convert them to metric & ship them right out.
> http://mdmetric.com/indexg.html?gclid=CPajwc7V9ZcCFQazsgodwk2RDA
>
> Jim Kmet
> Cookeville , TN
> MK-3C soon to start the 912
> Warp & Sabre combo
> (All my measurements are at the airport, & won`t be out there fore a few
> more days when it finally warms up)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:49 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: warp drive extension again - bolts this time
>
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I posted this over on the titan list, but I know some of you guys run the
>> warp drive prop with Warp's 3" extension, so Im cuttin-and-pastin my
>> query here as well.
>>
>> I've bitten the bullet and am replacing my IVO with a warp drive and 3"
>> extension. My 912's prop flange has the lugs pressed into the holes in
>> the outermost ring. These holes are threaded with 8mm x 1.25 pitch
>> threads.
>>
>> My question to ya'll is, what size and grade of bolts do you use to
>> attach the extension to the flange? i.e. length below the head, length of
>> shank, length of threaded portion? As for grade, I think the main options
>> for metric are 8.8, 10.9 and 12.9 (and stainless steel).
>>
>> I talked to Daryl today about this on the phone, he told me they needed
>> to be about 1 1/2" long and grade 8. The grading system is different for
>> 8mm bolts tho.
>>
>> It looks like M8 x 40 bolts fit what Daryl was describing. He said he
>> didn't have any, so I'm trying scare up a set of correct bolts when the
>> prop comes in next week. I have found socket-head bolts that seem to be
>> exactly right according to his description, but I'm not sure of the grade
>> I should get.
>>
>> I might call him again tomorrow to ask if what I have will work, but
>> don't want to pester him unecessarily if I don't have to ;).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> LS
>>
>> --------
>> LS
>> Titan II SS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232877#232877
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
Dana, et al, We've had this discussion before, but to be brief, AN bolts
conform to the spec for Grade 6, not Grade 5. The difference is that Grade 5
are carbon steel like Grade 8, while AN bolts are alloy steel, roughly
equivalent to 4130. The difference of importance is that an AN bolt actually
gets stronger when bent, while Grade 5 and 8, especially Grade 8, are
brittle and break.
You are right that metric 8.8 is equivalent to an AN, and 10.9 is equivalent
to Grade 8 as such 8.8 is the proper selection for prop bolts.
Lucien, Daryl builds good props, but his advice to use Grade 8's is
inconsistent with the rest of the world. Power Fin, for instance, ships
their props with SS socket head cap screws (SHCS) which are roughly 60% as
strong as the AN and metric 8.8's bolts of the same size, but allows the use
of metric 8.8 bolts, too.
The issue is ductility, not strength. The SS shcs, 8.8's and AN bolts will
absorb the vibration and torque pulses of the engine. The Grade 8's will
work harden and fracture.
Rick
do not archive
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> At 10:49 PM 3/2/2009, lucien wrote:
>
> My question to ya'll is, what size and grade of bolts do you use to attach
>> the extension to the flange? i.e. length below the head, length of shank,
>> length of threaded portion? As for grade, I think the main options for
>> metric are 8.8, 10.9 and 12.9 (and stainless steel).
>> I talked to Daryl today about this on the phone, he told me they needed to
>> be about 1 1/2" long and grade 8...
>>
>
> Without getting into what grade to hold your prop on (because I don't
> know):
>
> AN bolts (which have been used to hold on props for years) aren't graded
> per se, but are roughly equivalent to U.S. Grade 5, which is equivalent to
> metric grade 8.8. Grade 8 is equivalent to metric 10.9. There is no direct
> U.S. equivalent for 12.9, which is a very high strength bolt that I would
> think would too brittle for a prop application.
>
> -Dana
>
> --
> Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Dana, et al, We've had this discussion before, but to be brief, AN bolts conform
to the spec for Grade 6, not Grade 5. The difference is that Grade 5 are carbon
steel like Grade 8, while AN bolts are alloy steel, roughly equivalent to
4130. The difference of importance is that an AN bolt actually gets stronger
when bent, while Grade 5 and 8, especially Grade 8, are brittle and break.
> You are right that metric 8.8 is equivalent to an AN, and 10.9 isequivalent to
Grade 8 as such 8.8 is the proper selection for prop bolts.
> Lucien, Daryl builds good props, but his advice to use Grade 8's is inconsistent
with the rest of the world. Power Fin, for instance, ships their props with
SS socket head cap screws (SHCS) which are roughly 60% as strong as the AN
and metric 8.8's bolts of the same size, but allows the use of metric 8.8 bolts,
too.
> The issue is ductility, not strength. The SS shcs, 8.8's and AN bolts will absorb
the vibration and torque pulses of the engine. The Grade 8's will work harden
and fracture.
>
>
> Rick
> do not archive
>
Speaking of that, I happened to rob the hub bolts out of my powerfin that I still
have last night and noticed they're the exact size (M8 x 40) that it looks
like Daryl recommended ;).
And yes they are stainless steel SHCS's (I ran powerfins for a long time on my
2-strokes).
So it sounds like SS is preferred over the other options that seem to be available
for metric hardware (i.e. class 8.8 through 12.9)?
it strikes me as very bizarre that we have to go the hardware store for metric
bolts and there doesn't seem to be an aircraft grade set for metric. I've been
all over the internet last day or so and can't find anything analogous to AN/MS/NAS
etc for metric bolts.
What do you guys with extensions have holding yours on at the moment? I'll go get
that if it's different than the SS's I have.
I may call Daryl again today and see if I can get a specific recommendation. It'd
be nice to have them when the prop comes in next week...
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232934#232934
Message 7
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At 11:42 PM 3/2/09 -0600, you wrote:
>
>I was 65 my last flight to Alaska in 2004. Was pretty noticeable I had
>slowed down quite a bit since my 2001 Alaska flight. My flying days were
>much shorter. Can't slow down too much or I'll never make it there and
>back.
>
John,
Welcome to the over 70 flying club. A few years ago, I could look at an old
codger and say to my self "I will never look like that." Now when I look in
the mirror to shave, I see that person.
Don't let it worry you. People ask me how long I will fly, and I say that I
will as long as I can drag the FireFly in and out of the hangar. I may have
to rest a bit in a chair before I get in and crank up. One thing that helps
me is that I have met a fellow west of Winchester that is in his nineties
and he continues to fly. When I am out side working on the place and I hear
his 1/2 VW and see him fly over, it gives me a boost that if he can do it so
can I.
Now that I have a working air/fuel mixture control on the FireFly, this
summer, I hope to put a lot of pins in the map.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 8
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Two solutions to that Jack, either throw away the mirrors or don't
shave. Having a grizzly looking
gray beard keeps the young chicks from chasing you.
I have stopped lifting the tail now when moving the plane in and out
of the shed.
Spine is not as resilient as it once was.
90 year old guy with a 1/2 VW? that's great.
BB, a youthful 68 (in my mind anyway)
do not archive
On 3, Mar 2009, at 10:31 AM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> At 11:42 PM 3/2/09 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>> I was 65 my last flight to Alaska in 2004. Was pretty noticeable
>> I had
>> slowed down quite a bit since my 2001 Alaska flight. My flying
>> days were
>> much shorter. Can't slow down too much or I'll never make it
>> there and
>> back.
>>
>
> John,
>
> Welcome to the over 70 flying club. A few years ago, I could look
> at an old
> codger and say to my self "I will never look like that." Now when
> I look in
> the mirror to shave, I see that person.
>
> Don't let it worry you. People ask me how long I will fly, and I
> say that I
> will as long as I can drag the FireFly in and out of the hangar. I
> may have
> to rest a bit in a chair before I get in and crank up. One thing
> that helps
> me is that I have met a fellow west of Winchester that is in his
> nineties
> and he continues to fly. When I am out side working on the place
> and I hear
> his 1/2 VW and see him fly over, it gives me a boost that if he can
> do it so
> can I.
>
> Now that I have a working air/fuel mixture control on the FireFly,
> this
> summer, I hope to put a lot of pins in the map.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
Message 9
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> I've written four articles that were published in EAA's Light Sport
> Magazine over the last couple of years. I got paid.
> --------
> Thom Riddle
Wasn't like that in the old days, and up through late 2004.
Was fun getting my airplane and photos in international publications in the
beginning, but that wears off after 25 years of doing this.
I did not write anything about my 2004 flight. That was strictly my flight.
I didn't receive any sponsorship. Had no deadlines or obligations to meet.
Turned out to be the best flight yet.
john h
mkIII
Message 10
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Jack,
That is very good to hear.
One of my RANS S6-S partners is in his early 70s. He told me 5 years or so ago
that he would probably stop flying at around 75 but he is showing no signs of
slowing down. I'm only in my early 60s so I hopefully still have another decade
or more before I retire my wings.
There are several oldish(80s) pilots at our airport but I've not seen any of the
octogenarians actually fly in the last few years.
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232949#232949
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
> What do you guys with extensions have holding yours on at the moment?
I'll go get that if it's different than the SS's I have.
>
> I may call Daryl again today and see if I can get a specific
> recommendation. It'd be nice to have them when the prop comes in next
> week...
>
> LS
Lucien:
I use Daryl's props and Daryl's recommendation for fasteners, 8.8.
I do not use SS. They might be alright, but SS is not as stress resistant.
I buy my bolts locally, drill the heads for safety wire myself.
Have had good luck with them, more than 2,600 hours without a failure.
Friction between the prop, extention (I use a 4"), and the prop flange, is
carrying the torsional loads. The prop flange as well as the extention are
equipped with drive lugs. I don't think the prop bolts are getting a
beating on my airplane.
john h
mkIII
Message 12
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> Welcome to the over 70 flying club. A few years ago, I could look at an
old
> codger and say to my self "I will never look like that." Now when I look
> in
> the mirror to shave, I see that person.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
Thanks, Jack:
Cool being an old codger. I get away with a lot more sh_t now than I could
in my younger days. ;-)
Yea, sometimes the mirror is shocking, until I figure out who that old fart
is looking back.
I'm not as mobile, flexible, or strong as I was a few years ago, but when I
get in the Kolb, I fell like I am 18 again. I don't know that my ability to
fly well has deminished any. However, I have not been flying nearly as much
as I used to. This shows up as a rusty old pilot right away. A day or two
into a long cross country and I am back in the groove flying and staying
ahead of the airplane and my navigation.
john h
mkIII
Message 13
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At 07:54 AM 3/3/09 -0800, you wrote:
>
>One of my RANS S6-S partners is in his early 70s. He told me 5 years or so
ago that he would probably stop flying at around 75 but he is showing no
signs of slowing down. I'm only in my early 60s so I hopefully still have
another decade or more before I retire my wings.
>
Thom,
My problem is that I did not get started until very late. Flew on and off a
little from 1970, but did not finish a ticket or own a plane. I had to be
responsible by getting my kids and wife educated. But now that I am retired
I have learned to be selfish and irresponsible. This mode really started in
1999 when the FireFly first broke ground, continues up to this day, and I
hope for many years to come.
The move up here to Indiana has been a good one, in that, where I used to
have to drive 38 miles to get to the airport, the current trip is 1.5 miles.
Also, Indiana seems to be kinder on rental hangar space. I can fly all
year on one Social Security check and have money left over. Not bragging,
just a fact. Let's face it, if the old codgers did not keep spending money
the economy would be in much worse shape than it is.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
John Hauck wrote:
>
> Lucien:
>
> I use Daryl's props and Daryl's recommendation for fasteners, 8.8.
>
> I do not use SS. They might be alright, but SS is not as stress resistant.
>
> I buy my bolts locally, drill the heads for safety wire myself.
>
> Have had good luck with them, more than 2,600 hours without a failure.
>
> Friction between the prop, extention (I use a 4"), and the prop flange, is
> carrying the torsional loads. The prop flange as well as the extention are
> equipped with drive lugs. I don't think the prop bolts are getting a
> beating on my airplane.
>
> john h
> mkIII
Ah, how much you want to bet that was along the lines of what Daryl said and the
disconnect is between the phone and the chair...... ;)
Do you use fully threaded bolts or ones with a shoulder on them? I couldn't find
the 8.8 grade locally that actually had a shoulder, they were all fully threaded........
2600 hours is good enough for me, I'll tell you what ;).
Thanks all for helping a current Kolb infidel (tho the firefly idea is still drilling
around in my mind)...
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232963#232963
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
> Do you use fully threaded bolts or ones with a shoulder on them? I
couldn't find the 8.8 grade locally that actually had a shoulder, they were
all fully threaded........
>
> LS
Lucien:
Wouldn't use a fully threaded bolt for a prop bolt.
Santa Fe should have a fastener shop. I get my bolts at a local shop like
Fastenal, or something like that.
I did have to drill the heads of the bolts for safety wire. Could not get
drilled metric prop bolts.
john h
mkIII
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Lucien=2C
You might give Aircraft Spruce a try for the bolts you need. If I rememb
er correctly=2C I got my prop bolts from them. I can't recall the details
=2C but I seem to recall something about mine being metric=2C too=2C and I
also seem to remember the 8.8 grade for propellers.
Mike Welch
MkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Getting bolts |
[quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]Lucien C
You might give Aircraft Spruce a try for the bolts you need. If I remember correctly
C I got my prop bolts from them. I can't recall the details C but I seem
to recall something about mine being metric C too C and I also seem to remember
the 8.8 grade for propellers.
Mike Welch
MkIII
Windows Live Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Check
it out.
> [b]
Yeah I looked at the online catalogue and couldn't find any metric fasteners at
all. But I'll ring them up and see if they got them and there just aren't any
on the website.
I'm going to go by the local FBO also, tho they may not have any metric stuff at
all either (they don't work on anything foreign really)....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232976#232976
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
At 09:20 AM 3/3/2009, Richard Girard wrote:
>Dana, et al, We've had this discussion before, but to be brief, AN bolts
>conform to the spec for Grade 6, not Grade 5. The difference is that Grade
>5 are carbon steel like Grade 8, while AN bolts are alloy steel, roughly
>equivalent to 4130.
I said "roughly equivalent", not "interchangeable with... an AN bolt is
~125ksi whereas a Grade 5 is 120ksi. There is no Grade 6 (well, doubtless
there is but you won't find Grade 6 bolts for sale anywhere) The actual
tensile strength of a Grade 5 bolt will generally be lower, too, as Grade
5's are most commonly coarse thread, with a smaller root diameter than the
fine thread AN's.
Actually Grade 8 (but not Grade 5) is indeed alloy steel.
-Dana
--
Grow your own dope! Plant a politician!
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| Subject: | Re: Getting bolts |
Check your area for an implement (tractors) store and see if they have
them. I checked all over Boise Idaho trying to find some and was
referred to a John Deer dealer, and they had both the size and was the
only place that had the length that I needed. They are the same bolts.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: lucien
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:18 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Getting bolts
[quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]Lucien C
=EF=BD
=EF=BD You might give Aircraft Spruce a try for the bolts you
need.=EF=BD If I remember correctly C I got my prop bolts from
them.=EF=BD I can't recall the details C but I seem to recall
something about mine being metric C too C and I also seem to remember
the 8.8 grade for propellers.
=EF=BD
Mike Welch
MkIII
Windows Live=EF=BD Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite
groups to meet. Check it out.
> [b]
Yeah I looked at the online catalogue and couldn't find any metric
fasteners at all. But I'll ring them up and see if they got them and
there just aren't any on the website.
I'm going to go by the local FBO also, tho they may not have any
metric stuff at all either (they don't work on anything foreign
really)....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232976#232976
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/03/09 07:25:00
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| Subject: | Re: Getting bolts |
If all else fails, McMaster Carr has them. Their warehouse in L.A. should
have them to you in a couple of days.
Rick
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>wro
te:
> Check your area for an implement (tractors) store and see if they have
> them. I checked all over Boise Idaho trying to find some and was referred
to
> a John Deer dealer, and they had both the size and was the only place tha
t
> had the length that I needed. They are the same bolts.
> Larry C
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:18 AM
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Re: Getting bolts
>
>
> [quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]Lucien C
> =EF=BD
> =EF=BD You might give Aircraft Spruce a try for the bolts you need.
=EF=BD If I
> remember correctly C I got my prop bolts from them.=EF=BD I can't reca
ll the
> details C but I seem to recall something about mine being metric C too C
and
> I also seem to remember the 8.8 grade for propellers.
> =EF=BD
> Mike Welch
> MkIII
> Windows Live=EF=BD Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite gro
ups to
> meet. Check it out.
> > [b]
>
>
> Yeah I looked at the online catalogue and couldn't find any metric
> fasteners at all. But I'll ring them up and see if they got them and ther
e
> just aren't any on the website.
>
> I'm going to go by the local FBO also, tho they may not have any metric
> stuff at all either (they don't work on anything foreign really)....
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232976#232976
>
>
> http://www.matronicp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com"
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; href="
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
> http://www.matronics.com/c===============
=
>
>
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> - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
> 07:25:00
>
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ronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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| Subject: | Re: warp drive extension again - bolts this time |
John Hauck wrote:
>
> Lucien:
>
> Wouldn't use a fully threaded bolt for a prop bolt.
>
> Santa Fe should have a fastener shop. I get my bolts at a local shop like
> Fastenal, or something like that.
>
> I did have to drill the heads of the bolts for safety wire. Could not get
> drilled metric prop bolts.
>
> john h
> mkIII
Well I'll be darned.... sure enough, we have a Fastenal here in town....
Went by and got some 8.8 bolts, went over it on the phone with Daryl after getting
to the hangar and it looks like these are about right (M8 x40 partial thread).
Course I'll know for sure once the prop gets here, which should be early next week...
Thanks for all the help guys,
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233001#233001
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| Subject: | Fat Cat solution |
Hey Kolbers,
With companies trying to get rid of their big executive "Fat Cat" images, I've
come up with a solution that'll not only help them out but can give us more flying
time in our Kolbs. Who'll volunteer to be in the Skinny Cat Kolb Airlines
Fleet?
Here's the ad:
Hey Fat Cats, here's your transportation solution during this recession. Not only
can you shed your Fat Cat image, but you can enjoy the scenic (and yet still
faster than a car, bus or train) route to your destination. Hey, you might
even luck out with some strong winds that'll cancel the flight and give you a
good excuse to delay that executive meeting that you didn't want to attend and
wasn't ready for anyways. Nothing like being stranded in the slow-paced town
of Podunk to relax away that stress of being CEO. "Sorry, guys no cell phone
coverage here in Podunk."
We'll even personalize your flight with your company's logo on the plane so when
you arrive the news crews can see how frugally you are spending our tax dollars.
You say you have an entire executive team that needs to travel?...NO problem!
With our fleet of Kolbers flying formation you'll not only get them all there
in one piece* but also in STYLE!
Price negotiable. *Guarantee of getting there in one piece may be negotiable as
well.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233009#233009
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skinny_cat_kolb_airlines_482.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Getting bolts |
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> If all else fails, McMaster Carr has them. Their warehouse in L.A. should have
them to you in a couple of days.
>
> Rick
>
Thanks guys, like I replied in the other thread, I found a Fastenal here in town
at John H's suggestion. They had what appears to be the correct bolt, 8.8 grade,
M8 1.25 x 40 partial thread. I talked it over with Daryl over lunch on the
phone, while I was at the plane with the tape measure. It looks like this will
be the exact size and grade needed based on measuring and what Daryl said was
required, thickness of the extension etc..
oh well, learned a whole bunch about metric bolts over the last day or so...
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233018#233018
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| Subject: | Re: Getting bolts |
I found 8.8 partialy threaded bolts at home depot,also Lowes has a
good selection.
I did have to cut 1/4 in. off the threads so they would fit my HKS. We
use locknuts behind the ext. so drilling the heads was not a problem.
Frank Goodnight
FireStar2
HKS
On Mar 3, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> If all else fails, McMaster Carr has them. Their warehouse in L.A.
> should have them to you in a couple of days.
>
> Rick
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Larry Cottrell
<lcottrell@fmtcblue.com
> > wrote:
> Check your area for an implement (tractors) store and see if they
> have them. I checked all over Boise Idaho trying to find some and
> was referred to a John Deer dealer, and they had both the size and
> was the only place that had the length that I needed. They are the
> same bolts.
> Larry C
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lucien
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:18 AM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Getting bolts
>
>
> [quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]Lucien C
> =EF=BD
> =EF=BD You might give Aircraft Spruce a try for the bolts you
need.=EF=BD
> If I remember correctly C I got my prop bolts from them.=EF=BD I
can't
> recall the details C but I seem to recall something about mine being
> metric C too C and I also seem to remember the 8.8 grade for
> propellers.
> =EF=BD
> Mike Welch
> MkIII
> Windows Live=EF=BD Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite
> groups to meet. Check it out.
> > [b]
>
>
> Yeah I looked at the online catalogue and couldn't find any metric
> fasteners at all. But I'll ring them up and see if they got them and
> there just aren't any on the website.
>
> I'm going to go by the local FBO also, tho they may not have any
> metric stuff at all either (they don't work on anything foreign
> really)....
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232976#232976
>
>
> http://www.matronicp; via the Web href="http://
> forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
=
>
>
> - www.avg.com
> 03/03/09 07:25:00
>
> ==== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Getting bolts |
> oh well, learned a whole bunch about metric bolts over the last day or
so...
>
> LS
Lucien:
Based on the time Kolbs have been out there, about 99% of the time somebody
on this List has already had the problem and can point you in the right
direction to get it solved.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Douglas, Georgia Fly-In |
I'm going to try to make this fly-in. Would love to see another Kolb there!
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233040#233040
Attachments:
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List: Getting bolts |
- Thanks for the tip about Fastenal.- I found one 3 miles from here, an
d I never new what they were.- Makes life a little easier.- They also h
ave a website with locations and all kinds of info.
-
-------------------------
------------ Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------ Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
------------ FS 447
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List: Fat Cat solution |
- Cristal- Up here we call thoughts like that "cabin fever", or the rambl
ings of a deranged mind.- Very common in New England this time of year.
- I do like the idea, though.
-
-------------------------
------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct
.
-------------------------
------------------- FS 447
do not archive
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| Subject: | Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
Herb=2C
Seeing as I had only one response to plea for a little bit of reinforcing
tape (from JD Stewart=2C who lives 20 miles away)=2C I ended up heading to
my local WalMart.
Guess what? I'd bet a million bucks the stuff they sell is EXACTLY the s
ame as the Poly Fiber stuff. (except for the sticky backing)
At the very least...it'll damn sure work just fine!!
From the Poly Fiber product description for their tape.....high density 1
00% polyester
WalMart stuff (if someone did't tell you=2C you wouldn't know!)..........
100% polyester
I just finished Poly Tak'ing it on. I swear=2C if I didn't say anything
=2C no one would ever know the difference. BTW=2C it cost 1/10th the Poly
Fiber brand. Not having the sticky backing is only slightly tougher to app
ly.
Mike Welch
PS. I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share my o
pinion privately to someone on the list) John H thinks he's the ultimate a
uthority when it comes to all things Kolb. NOT in my opinion=2C he isn't!!
From: herbgh@nctc.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?
Yep...Know all about that...Aircraft fabric should be woven using some sort
of water process..whatever that is? So they tell us when charging three p
rices for it..
Using fabric store cloth requires one to know the difference... Wiping
down with acetone or mek is wise.. and that might not be enough... On fibe
rglass/carbon fiber layups...wise to use the std peel ply or know the diffe
rence.. I have spent many hours helping to do layups...polish molds... enou
gh to know that I wouldn't want to do that for a complete project...Vacuumi
ng bagging is a pain in the ass...always a leak or two...:-)
I started this thread in response to Mikes question about the half inch rei
nforcing tape that is placed over the ribs and adds some strength to the b
ond between the large head rivets and the fabric..itself... There are perf
ectly safe substitutes out there...I suggested one... I may have said ribbo
n...which in actuality it is not... sort of a seam.bias tape...
Lets see...3500 for project...add 600 for covering and paint...I have abo
ut 4200 in my brand new firefly...:-) It is obviously not about cost...b
ut I would not want to fall out of the air on principle either...:-) Thin
king outside the box has its perils on this list...been there several times
...Herb
oopss just remembered...I added single =2C streamlined lift struts to my Fi
refly...not std at all..more like the firestar now...:-)
At 04:17 PM 2/28/2009=2C you wrote:
The real problem with using fabric / department store polyester cloth is th
at you most likely have no way of knowing what sizing chemicals were used o
n it. If it's silicone=2C it could create bonds that are something less tha
n optimal to the tape or subsequent coating.
One of the Long EZ builders found this out when he used fabric store polyes
ter as peel ply. The silicone sizing in the cloth caused the bond to any at
tachments attempted later to be nonexistant. The fuselage had to be scrappe
d.
Let's see=2C about $15K for kit and covering=2C $52 is .35%. Brings the phr
ase "penny wise and pound foolish" to mind.
If it's just a few feet=2C why not get out the pinking shears and make what
you need? Even if you had to order a yard or two of heavy weight fabric yo
u'd be money ahead.
Rick
do not archive
On Sat=2C Feb 28=2C 2009 at 2:51 PM=2C John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wr
ote:
Mike:
My understanding is the reinforcement tape reinforces the fabric where it i
s mechanically attached to the rib=2C top or bottom. Have no idea how much
stress is placed on it top or bottom. I do know one of the primary requir
ements of fabric=2C reinforcement tape=2C rivets=2C and trim tape is to kee
p ribs=2C full and false=2C in position. Ribs have very little strength la
terally.
Don't think my wing is the place for walmart ribbon.
Hope you guys are just kidding about using it.
john h
mkIII
My comment was referring to the rib reinforcement tape=2C since that was
the subject of the thread. The bottom surface 99% of the time is pressed
against the ribs. It seems intuitive to me=2C the stress on the rib tape L
ESS=2C than the stress on the top surface rib tape. I would think that the
top of the wing the rib tape is trying to be "sucked up" 99% of the time.
If I wasn't clear enough=2C sorry=2C I was referring to rib tape.
Mike
====== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-L
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb List: Fat Cat solution |
williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote:
> ? Cristal- Up here we call thoughts like that "cabin fever", or the ramblings
of a deranged mind.? Very common in New England this time of year.? I do like
the idea, though.
> ?
> ???????????????????????????????????????????? Bill Sullivan
> ???????????????????????????????????????????? Windsor Locks, Ct
Bill,
Can't be cabin fever...went flying yesterday evening...MUST be a deranged mind!!
[Laughing]
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233056#233056
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| Subject: | Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
At 09:54 PM 3/3/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
>
>PS. I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share my
>opinion privately to someone on the list) John H thinks he's the ultimate
>authority when it comes to all things Kolb. NOT in my opinion, he isn't!!
I don't know if John's the "ultimate authority", I don't _always_ agree
with him, but he's been flying Kolbs for longer than nearly anybody else
except Homer and Dennis, so he's always worth listening to. Listen, and
then (as he himself would say) make up your own mind.
-Dana
--
A day without sunshine is like, night.
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| Subject: | Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
Hi Mike
Its main function imho is to reinforce the
cloth under the rivet head and its length adds
some linear strength to the cloth over the
rib... helps the cloth to lay down and not
balloon between rivets...on the top
side...mainly.. over time this mild ballooning
over the ribs and in between the rivets could
fatigue either the fabric or the rib ... I do not
doubt that the fabric adds strength to the wing
given the fact that the rear spar carries the
ailerons with only the help of the ribs ... I
have always thought that at high speed, probably
in a high g , knife edge like turn( a definite
no no!!) that the wing could flex and cause
aileron reversal...which could spoil ones day...
if low enough...another no no!!
Give Homer a lot of credit...he always erred
on the side of safety and used accepted aircraft
practice when it came to hardware..
.. but back when he was designing, this roll
of reinforcing tape cost maybe 7 bucks..?? :-)
I bet Homer would have shopped in the
aviation dept. at Wal Mart were they in
business back then?? :-) They also have a
nice kit of 4 colors of vinyl
tape...red,yellow,blue and white...makes for nice
repairs of small damaged areas..
Hope everyone knows,speaking of penny wise and
pound wise, that if you ask Aircraft Spruce for
uncertified fabric...they will sell you the high
priced spread that is on page 331 of current
catalog...1.7 oz that is.. $7.65 yd...
turn the page and on 332 is Dacron Fabric for
Homebuilt aircraft..$2.95 yd...1.8 oz ( I have
covered two planes with this and it works just
fine,depending on wing loading.) 2.7 oz is
$4.25..( good for all other Kolbs..but Firefly I
would guess.) Stitts sells an uncertified
lite for $7.65 yd... on page 325...
also note that spruce sends gallons of poly
products sans haz material charges..with UPS. at
one time it was cheaper to buy quarts since there
was no similar charge on that quantity..
Herb
At 08:54 PM 3/3/2009, you wrote:
>Herb,
>
> Seeing as I had only one response to plea for
> a little bit of reinforcing tape (from JD
> Stewart, who lives 20 miles away), I ended up heading to my local WalMart.
> Guess what? I'd bet a million bucks the
> stuff they sell is EXACTLY the same as the Poly
> Fiber stuff. (except for the sticky backing)
> At the very least...it'll damn sure work just fine!!
>
> From the Poly Fiber product description for
> their tape.....high density 100% polyester
> WalMart stuff (if someone did't tell you, you
> wouldn't know!)..........100% polyester
>
> I just finished Poly Tak'ing it on. I swear,
> if I didn't say anything, no one would ever
> know the difference. BTW, it cost 1/10th the
> Poly Fiber brand. Not having the sticky
> backing is only slightly tougher to apply.
>
>Mike Welch
>
>PS. I often find it best to just keep some
>things to myself (or share my opinion privately
>to someone on the list) John H thinks he's the
>ultimate authority when it comes to all things
>Kolb. NOT in my opinion, he isn't!!
>
>
>----------
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:36:50 -0600
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>From: herbgh@nctc.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?
>
>Yep...Know all about that...Aircraft fabric
>should be woven using some sort of water
>process..whatever that is? So they tell us when charging three prices for
it..
>
> Using fabric store cloth requires one to
> know the difference... Wiping down with acetone
> or mek is wise.. and that might not be
> enough... On fiberglass/carbon fiber
> layups...wise to use the std peel ply or know
> the difference.. I have spent many hours
> helping to do layups...polish molds... enough
> to know that I wouldn't want to do that for a
> complete project...Vacuuming bagging is a pain
> in the ass...always a leak or two...:-)
>
>
>I started this thread in response to Mikes
>question about the half inch reinforcing
>tape that is placed over the ribs and adds some
>strength to the bond between the large head
>rivets and the fabric..itself... There are
>perfectly safe substitutes out there...I
>suggested one... I may have said ribbon...which
>in actuality it is not... sort of a seam.bias tape...
>
> Lets see...3500 for project...add 600 for
> covering and paint...I have about 4200 in my
> brand new firefly...:-) It is obviously not
> about cost...but I would not want to fall out
> of the air on principle either...:-) Thinking
> outside the box has its perils on this list...been there several
times...Herb
>
>
>oopss just remembered...I added single ,
>streamlined lift struts to my Firefly...not std
>at all..more like the firestar now...:-)
>
>
>At 04:17 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:
>The real problem with using fabric / department
>store polyester cloth is that you most likely
>have no way of knowing what sizing chemicals
>were used on it. If it's silicone, it could
>create bonds that are something less than
>optimal to the tape or subsequent coating.
>One of the Long EZ builders found this out when
>he used fabric store polyester as peel ply. The
>silicone sizing in the cloth caused the bond to
>any attachments attempted later to be
>nonexistant. The fuselage had to be scrapped.
>Let's see, about $15K for kit and covering, $52
>is .35%. Brings the phrase "penny wise and pound foolish" to mind.
>If it's just a few feet, why not get out the
>pinking shears and make what you need? Even if
>you had to order a yard or two of heavy weight fabric you'd be money ahead.
>
>Rick
>do not archive
>
>On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 2:51 PM, John Hauck
><<mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com>jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>Mike:
>
>My understanding is the reinforcement tape
>reinforces the fabric where it is mechanically
>attached to the rib, top or bottom. Have no
>idea how much stress is placed on it top or
>bottom. I do know one of the primary
>requirements of fabric, reinforcement tape,
>rivets, and trim tape is to keep ribs, full and
>false, in position. Ribs have very little strength laterally.
>
>Don't think my wing is the place for walmart ribbon.
>
>Hope you guys are just kidding about using it.
>
>john h
>mkIII
>
>
> My comment was referring to the rib
> reinforcement tape, since that was the subject
> of the thread. The bottom surface 99% of the
> time is pressed against the ribs. It seems
> intuitive to me, the stress on the rib tape
> LESS, than the stress on the top surface rib
> tape. I would think that the top of the wing
> the rib tape is trying to be "sucked up" 99% of the time.
>
> If I wasn't clear enough, sorry, I was referring to rib tape.
>
>Mike
>
>
>======
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>ronics.com
>ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>----------
>Windows Live=99 Groups: Create an online spot for
>your favorite groups to meet.
><http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009>Che
ck
>it out.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:54 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?
Mike Welch
PS. I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share
my opinion privately to someone on the list) John H thinks he's the
ultimate authority when it comes to all things Kolb. NOT in my opinion,
he isn't!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
I agree it would be better to keep some things to your self, or at least
double check on which reply button you hit.
Larry C
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
Mike
I'm glad you found something you think will work.
John is one of the first that tries to help. If you don't agree with him
that is your choice. I don't think your personal comment is called for.
I don't recommend anything that isn't standard procedure with anything
structural. The reinforcing tape you found maybe perfectly ok but I
don't know so I didn't say anything. If I felt that this might cause a
safety issue I would feel it is necessary to say something. I don't
think I'm much of a authority on anything but if I can help maintain the
good Kolb reputation or point out something I think is unsafe I will
make a post. If I'm wrong I would hope someone would correct me. I see
John doing the same thing.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:54 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Can you help out a guy down on his luck?
Herb,
Seeing as I had only one response to plea for a little bit of
reinforcing tape (from JD Stewart, who lives 20 miles away), I ended up
heading to my local WalMart.
Guess what? I'd bet a million bucks the stuff they sell is EXACTLY
the same as the Poly Fiber stuff. (except for the sticky backing)
At the very least...it'll damn sure work just fine!!
From the Poly Fiber product description for their tape.....high
density 100% polyester
WalMart stuff (if someone did't tell you, you wouldn't
know!)..........100% polyester
I just finished Poly Tak'ing it on. I swear, if I didn't say
anything, no one would ever know the difference. BTW, it cost 1/10th
the Poly Fiber brand. Not having the sticky backing is only slightly
tougher to apply.
Mike Welch
PS. I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share
my opinion privately to someone on the list) John H thinks he's the
ultimate authority when it comes to all things Kolb. NOT in my opinion,
he isn't!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Douglas, Georgia Fly-In |
> I'm going to try to make this fly-in. Would love to see another Kolb
there!
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
Cristal:
I may surprise you. It is 220 sm, about 3 hours, and 15 gal gas one way.
Weather is forecast for "great" from here to there and back, marginal wind,
CAVU, temps in the 70s.
If I can get out of here early enough, I may fly over for breakfast.
The old mkIII and 912ULS could use a little exercise. I could use some too.
I flew a little while this afternoon, around my local area, immediate local
area. That is from my cow pasture to the neighbors, right over the power
line by Kim's Country Store, then to 4,000 feet with the VSI pegged on 2,000
FPM, a few stalls, wing overs, and unusual attitudes on the way back down,
with power off, to 410 feet MSL and my grass strip. I dodged all the cows,
donkeys, cow pies, donkey apples, calves, baby donkeys, and one big bull,
and did not bend a gear leg. ;-)
john h
mkIII - 2,872.7 hours
912ULS - 304.2 hours
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
Well.....Mike, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm entitled to
mine.
I have been around Kolbs a while, built three, rebuilt the same three,
and done a lot of flying in them over the past 25 years.
Sorry it bothers you if I exercise my right to voice my opinion. Being
a member of the Kolb List does not mean I have to agree with all your
decisions. You certainly do not have to agree with mine.
No, I don't think I am the ultimate authority when it comes to Kolbs. I
learn new stuff about them quite often from members of this List. I try
to keep my ears open most of the time.
No, I'm not going to get my covering supplies from Wal-Mart, but if you
say you are going to use the Wal-Mart Covering System to cover your
Kolb, I'll probably have a comment or two to make about it.
john h
mkIII - 2,872.1 hours
912ULS - 304.2 hours
Mike Welch
PS. I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or share
my opinion privately to someone on the list) John H thinks he's the
ultimate authority when it comes to all things Kolb. NOT in my opinion,
he isn't!!
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
I don't know if this is a private coversation between Herb and Mike W or
not. If it gets posted on this List it is addressed to all members.
I agree with Herb on the function of the reinforcing tape and the wing
fabric. Not only does the covering make a sail, but it reinforces the
entire wing structure.
Homer is still designing and building airplanes. Doubt very seriously
he is shopping for parts from Wal-Marts.
Back when he designed and built his first aircraft, a hang glider made
of conduit, plastic covering, and tape, nothing on that aircraft was
aviation quality. All that changed when he started designing airplanes
to kit.
One of the primary reasons I bought a Kolb Ultrastar for my first
civilian aircraft was the fact that most of the little airplane was
aviation quality, all the parts that were critical to safe flight. Very
few parts on that 1984 Ultrastar were not aircraft grade hardware.
Certainly, all covering materials were Stitts, and it remained that way
right through a kit you buy from TNK today.
Steve Whitman was a real aviation pioneer, air racer, designer, builder,
pilot, right up into his 90's. He paid the ultimate price, along with
his wife, because he did not follow prescribed procedure for covering
the aircraft he and his wife were flying on a return trip from Sun and
Fun, Lakeland, Florida. Somewhere over Tennessee the Whitman came apart
in the air.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Its main function imho is to reinforce the cloth under the rivet
head and its length adds some linear strength to the cloth over the
rib... helps the cloth to lay down and not balloon between rivets...on
the top side...mainly.. over time this mild ballooning over the ribs
and in between the rivets could fatigue either the fabric or the rib ...
I bet Homer would have shopped in the aviation dept. at Wal Mart
were they in business back then?? :-)
Herb
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
John
I started to suggest that prop 8.8 bolts are available at Advanced
Auto...but...I was still suffering from reinforcing tape fatigue... :-)
Now if you really want to talk about aircraft quality
materials...check the burlap at TSC...mighty good stuff... make take
a lot of poly brush however..big iron...:-)
I think we are only discussing the reinforcing tape.. and I
knew that it was very similar stuff.. and plenty safe...especially
since Mike was planning to use it on the bottom of the wing..
changing anything on a kit airplane requires common sense... my
neighbors tell me that I have none ...for if God had wanted--------------!!
Herb
At 11:10 PM 3/3/2009, you wrote:
>I don't know if this is a private coversation between Herb and Mike
>W or not. If it gets posted on this List it is addressed to all members.
>
>I agree with Herb on the function of the reinforcing tape and the
>wing fabric. Not only does the covering make a sail, but it
>reinforces the entire wing structure.
>
>Homer is still designing and building airplanes. Doubt very
>seriously he is shopping for parts from Wal-Marts.
>
>Back when he designed and built his first aircraft, a hang glider
>made of conduit, plastic covering, and tape, nothing on that
>aircraft was aviation quality. All that changed when he started
>designing airplanes to kit.
>
>One of the primary reasons I bought a Kolb Ultrastar for my first
>civilian aircraft was the fact that most of the little airplane was
>aviation quality, all the parts that were critical to safe
>flight. Very few parts on that 1984 Ultrastar were not aircraft
>grade hardware. Certainly, all covering materials were Stitts, and
>it remained that way right through a kit you buy from TNK today.
>
>Steve Whitman was a real aviation pioneer, air racer, designer,
>builder, pilot, right up into his 90's. He paid the ultimate price,
>along with his wife, because he did not follow prescribed procedure
>for covering the aircraft he and his wife were flying on a return
>trip from Sun and Fun, Lakeland, Florida. Somewhere over Tennessee
>the Whitman came apart in the air.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>mkIII
>
>
> Its main function imho is to reinforce the cloth under the rivet
> head and its length adds some linear strength to the cloth over
> the rib... helps the cloth to lay down and not balloon between
> rivets...on the top side...mainly.. over time this mild ballooning
> over the ribs and in between the rivets could fatigue either the
> fabric or the rib ...
>
>
> I bet Homer would have shopped in the aviation dept. at Wal
> Mart were they in business back then?? :-)
>
>Herb
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Chuck's selling CGS Hawk |
I don't remember seeing this on the list, and know there are some of you who know
Chuck.
Arty
From: cgshawk@yahoogroups .com [mailto:cgshawk@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
Chuck Slusarczyk
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [cgshawk] Update from Chuck S
Hi Everyone:
Giving you all an update on how I'm doing. The good news is I'm getting
better with each passing week. Bad news is It is a lot slower process than
I thought it would be. I'm told it will probably take a year to 18 months
to fully recover.
Given that, I realize it is best if I sell CGS. I can see that I'm not
going to be physically able to handle it like I used to. I still can't drive
or fly, so I can only get to the shop on a very limited basis. I also find
that once I'm there, I tire very easily and find I can't work more than just
a couple of hours.
I want to be able to provide parts and service to existing Hawk owners, and
have quite a bit of inventory on hand as well as all the tooling. For the
time being, we will continue to sell and ship parts that we have in stock as
well as dacron covers. We can also order engines, props, and BRS chutes.
We are in the process of finishing up any parts orders that are outstanding,
as well as our current kit orders.
If any one out there is interested, please get in touch with me via email at
chucks2000@roadrunn er.com. Ideally I'd like to see a group of Hawk owners
maybe get together and relocate the company to a warmer climate. I will
make myself available for technical assistance. If you have any ideas you
want to pass along, I'm listening.
Best Regards,
Chuck Slusarczyk
CGS Aviation
440-564-1214
chucks2000@roadrunn er.com
Message 40
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| Subject: | Experimental aircraft |
John=2C
What others aren't aware of=2C is your constant contrary position on almo
st anything I say. My comment was a reference to the last year and a half
of your comments. Others have no idea of what I am getting at.
You are correct when you say everyone is entitled to their opinion. But
=2C for some reason=2C it seems as though every time I voice mine=2C you se
em to take the opposite view. Even when I pretext my position with an acce
ptance that others may have differing opinions=2C you still make a point of
challenging me.
I used to suggest people consider alternate engines besides Rotax. Even
though I state Rotax are the best=2C you countermand my position=2C and it'
s as if YOU are the only one with an opinion. I don't mention engines=2C a
nymore. It's just not worth it.
I used to share ideas=2C mods=2C suggestions=2C but I don't do that very
much=2C anymore=2C either.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99 Contacts: Organize your contact list.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-
cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental aircraft |
Mike:
I don't do much back copy emailing. If I have something to share, I
usually share it with the List.
Also, I don't get personal either. You may take it that way, but that
ain't the way it is.
john h
mkIII
Mike Welch said:
What others aren't aware of, is your constant contrary position on
almost anything I say. My comment was a reference to the last year and
a half of your comments. Others have no idea of what I am getting at.
You are correct when you say everyone is entitled to their opinion.
But, for some reason, it seems as though every time I voice mine, you
seem to take the opposite view. Even when I pretext my position with an
acceptance that others may have differing opinions, you still make a
point of challenging me.
I used to suggest people consider alternate engines besides Rotax.
Even though I state Rotax are the best, you countermand my position, and
it's as if YOU are the only one with an opinion. I don't mention
engines, anymore. It's just not worth it.
I used to share ideas, mods, suggestions, but I don't do that very
much, anymore, either.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Experimental aircraft |
Sorry folks.
I meant this last email to go bc to Mike Welch, not the Kolb List.
I appologise.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Experimental aircraft
Mike:
I don't do much back copy emailing.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Can you help out a guy down on his luck? |
At 08:54 PM 3/3/2009, you wrote:
>Herb,
>
> Seeing as I had only one response to plea for a little bit of
> reinforcing tape (from JD Stewart, who lives 20 miles away), I
> ended up heading to my local WalMart.
> Guess what? I'd bet a million bucks the stuff they sell is
> EXACTLY the same as the Poly Fiber stuff. (except for the sticky backing)
> At the very least...it'll damn sure work just fine!!
>
> From the Poly Fiber product description for their tape.....high
> density 100% polyester
> WalMart stuff (if someone did't tell you, you wouldn't
> know!)..........100% polyester
>
> I just finished Poly Tak'ing it on. I swear, if I didn't say
> anything, no one would ever know the difference. BTW, it cost
> 1/10th the Poly Fiber brand. Not having the sticky backing is only
> slightly tougher to apply.
>
>Mike Welch
>
>PS. I often find it best to just keep some things to myself (or
>share my opinion privately to someone on the list) John H thinks
>he's the ultimate authority when it comes to all things Kolb. NOT
>in my opinion, he isn't!!
>
Wow! Comes on begging for a hand out of covering materials and asks
what alternative he might use, then doesn't like the answer he
gets. The Gull of some people.
jerb
Message 44
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My instructor is in his early 80s and still instructing.Its 20 years since
he sent me into the sky by my lonsome. Its now my turn to teach him how to
operate a 1914 Ford T. How times change.
Tony
Downunder
Kolb MK111c
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:54 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Alaska 2009
>
> Jack,
> That is very good to hear.
>
> One of my RANS S6-S partners is in his early 70s. He told me 5 years or so
> ago that he would probably stop flying at around 75 but he is showing no
> signs of slowing down. I'm only in my early 60s so I hopefully still have
> another decade or more before I retire my wings.
>
> There are several oldish(80s) pilots at our airport but I've not seen any
> of the octogenarians actually fly in the last few years.
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
>
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
> simple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232949#232949
>
>
>
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