---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/10/09: 50 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:57 AM - Re: Wing Center Section (icrashrc) 2. 04:43 AM - top drawl tanks (Ted Cowan) 3. 05:07 AM - Re: top drawl tanks (Richard Girard) 4. 05:50 AM - Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (cristalclear13) 5. 05:51 AM - Rate of climb (Mike Welch) 6. 06:12 AM - Re: Need help posting my flight route on Google Maps (Ed Chmielewski) 7. 06:41 AM - Re: Gap Seals - An Easy Way to Give your Kolb more control Autho (John Hauck) 8. 06:41 AM - Re: top drawl tanks (John Hauck) 9. 06:55 AM - Xtra Pistons (george.mueller@aurora.org) 10. 07:08 AM - Re: Rate of climb (Richard Girard) 11. 07:09 AM - Re: Rate of climb (Richard Girard) 12. 07:40 AM - Re: Rate of climb (robcannon) 13. 08:11 AM - Re: rate of climb (boyd) 14. 08:48 AM - Re: Gap Seals - An Easy Way to Give your Kolb more control Autho (JetPilot) 15. 08:49 AM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (Jack B. Hart) 16. 08:59 AM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (cristalclear13) 17. 09:01 AM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (cristalclear13) 18. 09:04 AM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (cristalclear13) 19. 09:15 AM - Re: top drawl tanks (JetPilot) 20. 09:20 AM - Re: Rate of climb (JetPilot) 21. 09:44 AM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (JetPilot) 22. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (Jack B. Hart) 23. 10:00 AM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (cristalclear13) 24. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: top drawl tanks (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 25. 11:17 AM - Re: Rate of climb (Robert Laird) 26. 11:21 AM - Re: top drawl tanks (tlongo) 27. 11:40 AM - Re: Rate of climb () 28. 12:09 PM - Re: Fjuel rtanks (russ kinne) 29. 12:15 PM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (cristalclear13) 30. 12:16 PM - Re: top drawl tanks (JetPilot) 31. 12:25 PM - Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (JetPilot) 32. 01:10 PM - Re: top drawl tanks (tlongo) 33. 01:20 PM - Re: Wing Center Section (icrashrc) 34. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video (Jack B. Hart) 35. 01:55 PM - Bottom Drain Fuel Tank Bushings (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 36. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: top drawl tanks (boyd) 37. 02:19 PM - Re: Bottom Drain Fuel Tank Bushings (George Alexander) 38. 02:33 PM - Re: Rate of climb (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 39. 03:13 PM - Re: Rate of climb (Dana Hague) 40. 03:13 PM - Re: Rate of climb (Dana Hague) 41. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: top drawl tanks (zeprep251@aol.com) 42. 03:44 PM - Re: Rate of climb (Jimmy Young) 43. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Rate of climb (Robert Laird) 44. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Fjuel rtanks (John Hauck) 45. 07:45 PM - Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS (lucien) 46. 07:53 PM - Re: Rate of climb (Richard Pike) 47. 07:53 PM - Re: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS (John Hauck) 48. 08:10 PM - Re: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS (lucien) 49. 08:22 PM - Re: Re: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS (John Hauck) 50. 09:11 PM - Re: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS (JetPilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:20 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Center Section From: "icrashrc" The entire process took a few weeks. All the steps were done on the plane. It was done basically in the same order as the pictures on the website. We made shape we wanted over the plane, then made our center section, then made a mold over the center section. There hasn't been a part pulled from the mold yet. If we decide to offer a few for sale then that would be next. Scott JetPilot wrote: > Scott, > > The is quite a nice center section, how long did it take you to do that entire process of making that ? Did you make the mold, and then use that female mold to cast your center section after it was off the plane ? > > Mike -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234004#234004 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:23 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: top drawl tanks I have two five gal. tanks on my slingshot as per directions. I have had one tank not siphon correctly on a short trip and I found it was the vent was slightly clogged. no problem. I believe it a leak on one of the top lines would prevent equalization but I also believe the bottom feeders are more problematic. I have had those and the push in type plugs that hold the fittings would normally leak or deteriorate and have to be replaced (not sure if they would stand up to alki or not) requiring a great deal of trouble getting to them. Also, if the same leak that stopped the top feeders happened to the bottom feeders -- well, you have to call the fire department (while flying)!! So, I guess it is what it is. I would have definately put a ten gal tank or better in stead of my two fives had I have known better. p.s. I have a go cart type tank, two gals I believe that slips right in back on a firestar on top of the other tank that is great as a gravity feeder for extended flights. I do not need it now. It has a weird shape and fits in perfectly. will send pics to someone who is interested. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot 912 ul zoom zoom ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: top drawl tanks From: Richard Girard Ted, Ditto on the problem of the grommets when putting the fuel feeds on the bottom of the tanks. I got very lucky when I made the decision to replace both tanks in my Mk III. The grommet flanges had split all the way up to the body, but had not started to leak, yet. I bought new top draw tank taps from TNK and the bottoms of the new tanks are pristine. It may not be the best way to do it, but I don't loose any sleep worrying about tank grommets that are nearly impossible to inspect. Rick On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Ted Cowan wrote: > > > I have two five gal. tanks on my slingshot as per directions. I have had > one tank not siphon correctly on a short trip and I found it was the vent > was slightly clogged. no problem. I believe it a leak on one of the top > lines would prevent equalization but I also believe the bottom feeders are > more problematic. I have had those and the push in type plugs that hold the > fittings would normally leak or deteriorate and have to be replaced (not > sure if they would stand up to alki or not) requiring a great deal of > trouble getting to them. Also, if the same leak that stopped the top > feeders happened to the bottom feeders -- well, you have to call the fire > department (while flying)!! So, I guess it is what it is. I would have > definately put a ten gal tank or better in stead of my two fives had I have > known better. > p.s. I have a go cart type tank, two gals I believe that slips right in > back on a firestar on top of the other tank that is great as a gravity > feeder for extended flights. I do not need it now. It has a weird shape > and fits in perfectly. will send pics to someone who is interested. Ted > Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot 912 ul zoom zoom > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:26 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "cristalclear13" Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234022#234022 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:09 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Rate of climb Kolb guys=2C I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII (M kII=2C Classics=2C Xtras) I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes=2C but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the climb performance with various powered engines. Example...Rotax 582.....x# fpm =2C GEO (HP?)......x# fpm=2C Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm=2C Rotax 912 ULS... ..x# fpm=2C VW (HP?) ...x# fpm Thanks. Your indulgence is appreciated. BTW. For those that are interested=2C I completely finished painting my entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes). Engine and propeller are remounted. I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator mount on Sunday. (pictures available for those who ask) I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to esta blish bragging rights for the highest. I realize there are a million reaso ns why there will be some variances. like density altitude=2C weight of pla ne and cargo=2C prop differences=2C etc.) Thanks=2C Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog- cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:27 AM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Need help posting my flight route on Google Maps Hi, Another good, free service is www.fltplan.com . Register for free, no spam, very comprehensive. Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 4:42 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Need help posting my flight route on Google Maps > > > Arty > > Can't help you with Google maps but have you ever tried the flight planner > software at areoplanner.com? > If you are a EAA member and you click on the right buttons the basic > service is free. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:14 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gap Seals - An Easy Way to Give your Kolb more control Autho On the tail, the effect of the increased authority can clearly be seen by how much I had to bend the trim tab to get the Kolb to fly straight in Cruise. The clear lexan tab was the standard Lexan trim tab bent to the standard 30 degree angle that Most MK III's require to fly straight before the gap seal was added to the rudder. After putting on the gap seals, I only needed about half as much bend in the rudder tab for the plane to fly straight at cruise as can be seen in the new aluminum tap, demonstrating that the rudder is now more effective and requiring less trim and deflection for the same cruise condition. > > Mike Mike: Did you take into consideration, the lexan tab will bend quite a bit more than the sheet metal tab in flight, not requiring as much initial angle? I have never experimented with gap seals on the tail section, but others have. I use quite a bit more hinge on rudder and elevators than called for in the plans. This kills a lot of the gap in the tail section on my mkIII. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:21 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: top drawl tanks I don't use grommets to pull fuel out the bottom of my tank, which is alumi num. Seems the plastic tanks today are not nearly as rigid and thick as they wer e back in the 80's. john h mkIII Ted, Ditto on the problem of the grommets when putting the fuel feeds on the bottom of the tanks. Rick ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Xtra Pistons From: george.mueller@aurora.org Has anyone tried the Xtra pistons which supposedly increase the horsepower of a Rotax 912 80 hp up to 95 hp? Did they work? Any problems with them? George in Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rate of climb From: Richard Girard Mike, at 608 lb. dry, my Mk III is a pig. I did climb tests in 2006 right after dawn when the temps were in the 80's. Didn't make any difference whether I climbed at 55 or 70 mph IAS, it came in at 500 fpm every time.Tes ting method: Establish climb at 800' agl, start stop watch at 1000' asl and time the climb to 2000'. Repeat twice for each IAS. Rick On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Mike Welch wrote : > Kolb guys, > > I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII > (MkII, Classics, Xtras) > > I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I > don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. > > One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the cli mb > performance with various powered engines. Example...Rotax 582.....x# > fpm, GEO (HP?)......x# fpm, Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm, Rotax 912 ULS.... .x# > fpm, VW (HP?) ...x# fpm > > Thanks. Your indulgence is appreciated. > > BTW. For those that are interested, I completely finished painting my > entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes). Engi ne > and propeller are remounted. I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator > mount on Sunday. (pictures available for those who ask) > > I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to > establish bragging rights for the highest. I realize there are a million > reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude, weight o f > plane and cargo, prop differences, etc.) > > Thanks, Mike Welch > MkIII > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live=99 Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out. > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rate of climb From: Richard Girard PS, it's 582 powered. Rick On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Mike Welch wrote : > Kolb guys, > > I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII > (MkII, Classics, Xtras) > > I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I > don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. > > One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the cli mb > performance with various powered engines. Example...Rotax 582.....x# > fpm, GEO (HP?)......x# fpm, Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm, Rotax 912 ULS.... .x# > fpm, VW (HP?) ...x# fpm > > Thanks. Your indulgence is appreciated. > > BTW. For those that are interested, I completely finished painting my > entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes). Engi ne > and propeller are remounted. I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator > mount on Sunday. (pictures available for those who ask) > > I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to > establish bragging rights for the highest. I realize there are a million > reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude, weight o f > plane and cargo, prop differences, etc.) > > Thanks, Mike Welch > MkIII > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live=99 Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out. > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rate of climb From: "robcannon" My Twinstar mark II with the HKS gets around 900 fpm at 50 to 60 mph. This is at about 700 lbs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234043#234043 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:43 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: Kolb-List: re: rate of climb I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. Mike Welch On my mkIII C I have the 912 and 68 inch Warp Drive propl.. And since I have never been to sea level. I went the opposite way and tested at altitude. Between 9500 ft and 10000 ft. solo takes 1 min or 500 ft/min Between 9500 ft and 10000 ft. with 2 on board, very near max wt. it takes 2 min. or 250 ft/min There may be some way to calculate what it would do at sea level. but I don't know the formula. Boyd Young Kolb MKIIIC Brigham City Ut. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:17 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seals - An Easy Way to Give your Kolb more control Autho From: "JetPilot" John H, The hinges makes a great gap seal ! I did not put any gap seal over the hinges in my rudder, not enough air is going to get through those hinges to worry about. I also like the idea of putting more hinge material on the control surfaces, it should wear better and sure wont hurt anything. You get the added benefit of that much extra gap seal. The change in trim tab material from Lexan to aluminum was done before the gap seals, here is a better picture of the original bend in the aluminum tab, and then much lesser bend for coordinated cruise after the gap seals. The amount of bend in the first picture is much more than it looks, as the camera is not looking at the rudder from straight on, I took about half the bend out. -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234050#234050 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightkolbdetailgapseals04_29_2008_08_121.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightkolbdetailtrimtabs12_30_2007_03_153.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:36 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video At 05:47 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote: > >Here's the link: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE > >-------- Cristal, Good Video. I am curious. Where you carrying a passenger on your flight and were the photos taken while you were in level flight? From the photos it looked like quite a bit of down elevator in two of them. Why? Jack B. hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "cristalclear13" jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > At 05:47 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE > > > > -------- > > > > > > > Cristal, > > Good Video. I am curious. Where you carrying a passenger on your flight > and were the photos taken while you were in level flight? From the photos > it looked like quite a bit of down elevator in two of them. Why? > > Jack B. hart FF004 > Winchester, IN Thanks Jack, I don't see it. Maybe it's the angle of the shot. They were either above or below me taking the pictures. I was flying solo. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234052#234052 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "cristalclear13" jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > At 05:47 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE > > > > -------- > > > > > > > Cristal, > > Good Video. I am curious. Where you carrying a passenger on your flight > and were the photos taken while you were in level flight? From the photos > it looked like quite a bit of down elevator in two of them. Why? > > Jack B. hart FF004 > Winchester, IN Oh yeah, and we had just taken off and was still climbing, but I don't see a whole lot of up elevator in the pictures. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234053#234053 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:48 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "cristalclear13" cristalclear13 wrote: > > Oh yeah, and we had just taken off and was still climbing, but I don't see a whole lot of up elevator in the pictures. Meant to say down elevator there. Looks like normal down elevator to me since we were still climbing. Are you trying to make a wise crack about my weight? :( -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234054#234054 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks From: "JetPilot" tc1917(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > > Also, if the same leak that stopped the top > feeders happened to the bottom feeders -- well, you have to call the fire > department (while flying)!! > It would be difficult to keep a thin bottom feed plastic tank sealed, which is exactly why I still use the top feed on my Kolb fuel tanks. The top feed tank is not preferred in aviation, but it works fine if much care is used not to get any type of leak anywhere above the fuel level. In the thin plastic tanks as we have in our Kolbs, I will keep using top feed. Given this top feed, there are several things you need to be careful of and consider though ! As far as a leak goes, air leaks at a MUCH faster rate than fuel does, and air is generally not detectable. A pinhole that would just cause a bit of gas moisture on a fitting on the bottom of the tank, would flood the system with air and result in an engine failure at the top of the tank. If a valve, or filter develops a small leak under positive pressure would quickly be caught in a preflight as an area being moist with gas, the same pinhole in above the tanks ( in an area of suction ) would not be detectable in most cases until the engine quit. I have no sparks or flames around my fuel fittings in my Kolb, and while a very slow drip or even moisture would not be acceptable and would be immediately corrected before any flight, such a slow leak as a drip every couple of minutes would NOT result in an in-flight fire. The same slow leak with air leaking in as opposed to gas leaking out would result in an emergency though ! I would rather see some gasoline moisture in a preflight, or a very small slow drip than having my engine suddenly quit. This is why I place all my fuel valves, filters, and gascolators below the tank level in my Kolb, this is good fuel system design. A forced landing in bad terrain is much more likely to result in a fire than a very slow drip that can be caught in a preflight [Shocked] Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234059#234059 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rate of climb From: "JetPilot" At sea level on a hot humid day, my MK III Xtra with the Rotax 912-s climbs at 1000 feet a minute with 2 people, around 1400 FPM when I am alone, and 10 gallons of fuel. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234061#234061 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:45 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "JetPilot" Nice video and beautiful music to go along with it Crystal ! Looks like you guys had a great time. I wish I could have gone ! I see what Jack is talking about on the elevator, but being down elevator in cruise could possibly indicate a tail heavy condition, but it could be other things also. I don't know if the TwinStar has the adjustable horizontal stab as my MK III Does. It looks to me like most of the load of the tail is being carried by the Horizontal Stab and the elevator may even working against it a bit with so much down in cruise. I don't know much of anything about the Twinstar, if this is normal or not, I just know its far different from what I see in my MK III Xtra in cruise ! Maybe John H could take a look at the pictures... I bet he has seen stuff like this in Kolbs a couple hundred times before. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234064#234064 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:54 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video At 09:04 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote: > > >cristalclear13 wrote: >> > >Are you trying to make a wise crack about my weight? :( > >-------- Cristal, Now that you made the statement, you must be sensitive. Nothing is more unattractive than someone who is anorexic. Your fairings look great and I would say you are in the bloom of health. Let the Kolb worry about your weight and go fly. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "cristalclear13" JetPilot wrote: > Nice video and beautiful music to go along with it Crystal ! Looks like you guys had a great time. I wish I could have gone ! > > I see what Jack is talking about on the elevator, but being down elevator in cruise could possibly indicate a tail heavy condition, but it could be other things also. I don't know if the TwinStar has the adjustable horizontal stab as my MK III Does. It looks to me like most of the load of the tail is being carried by the Horizontal Stab and the elevator may even working against it a bit with so much down in cruise. I don't know much of anything about the Twinstar, if this is normal or not, I just know its far different from what I see in my MK III Xtra in cruise ! Maybe John H could take a look at the pictures... I bet he has seen stuff like this in Kolbs a couple hundred times before. > > Mike Ok, I see what you're saying. I was thinking backwards (which I tend to do after a long tiring weekend). I don't know the answer. I might have been going down a little at some time to let the gyrocopter catch up to me. But more than likely I didn't have my trim set. That might cause it, right? -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234068#234068 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:38 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks Mike/All You make a lot of good points. Top draw fuel tanks just seem to add unnecessary opportunities for problems. Also top draw tanks would seem to be less forgiving of a low fuel level. A turn or turbulence could uncover a fuel feed causing at least higher hart rate much quicker than with bottom feed. I have never landed with less than three total gallons and normally get nervous when I get to 5 gallons but if I were to need it. As for leaks on bottom draw tanks I have never had one. At six years I purchased new tanks and new rubber plug things. I think it is three years on the new tanks. Another 3-4 years I will replace the current tanks with the new 6 gallon tanks. I have always used a step drill and cleaned up the holes before inserting the plugs, then the fittings. I have never had a leak and have used that 10% ethanol crap for at least 6 years since that is the only fuel they sell in Michigan. On trips I use 110LL but that isn't the norm. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:13 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks > > > tc1917(at)bellsouth.net wrote: >> >> Also, if the same leak that stopped the top >> feeders happened to the bottom feeders -- well, you have to call the fire >> department (while flying)!! >> > > > It would be difficult to keep a thin bottom feed plastic tank sealed, > which is exactly why I still use the top feed on my Kolb fuel tanks. The > top feed tank is not preferred in aviation, but it works fine if much care > is used not to get any type of leak anywhere above the fuel level. In the > thin plastic tanks as we have in our Kolbs, I will keep using top feed. > Given this top feed, there are several things you need to be careful of > and consider though ! > > As far as a leak goes, air leaks at a MUCH faster rate than fuel does, and > air is generally not detectable. A pinhole that would just cause a bit of > gas moisture on a fitting on the bottom of the tank, would flood the > system with air and result in an engine failure at the top of the tank. > If a valve, or filter develops a small leak under positive pressure would > quickly be caught in a preflight as an area being moist with gas, the same > pinhole in above the tanks ( in an area of suction ) would not be > detectable in most cases until the engine quit. I have no sparks or > flames around my fuel fittings in my Kolb, and while a very slow drip or > even moisture would not be acceptable and would be immediately corrected > before any flight, such a slow leak as a drip every couple of minutes > would NOT result in an in-flight fire. The same slow leak with air > leaking in as opposed to gas leaking out would result in an emergency > though ! I would rather see some gasoline moisture in a pr! > eflight, or a very small slow drip than having my engine suddenly quit. > This is why I place all my fuel valves, filters, and gascolators below > the tank level in my Kolb, this is good fuel system design. > > A forced landing in bad terrain is much more likely to result in a fire > than a very slow drip that can be caught in a preflight [Shocked] > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234059#234059 > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rate of climb From: Robert Laird At 588 lbs empty, w/ Rotax 912ULS, 3-blade Warp drive prop and just me and 12 gallons, I routinely get 900-1100 fpm, but if I'm trying hard and right on the edge, I can do 1400fpm. -- Robert On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Mike Welch wrote : > Kolb guys, > > I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII > (MkII, Classics, Xtras) > > I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I > don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. > > One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the cli mb > performance with various powered engines. Example...Rotax 582.....x# > fpm, GEO (HP?)......x# fpm, Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm, Rotax 912 ULS.... .x# > fpm, VW (HP?) ...x# fpm > > Thanks. Your indulgence is appreciated. > > BTW. For those that are interested, I completely finished painting my > entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes). Engi ne > and propeller are remounted. I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator > mount on Sunday. (pictures available for those who ask) > > I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to > establish bragging rights for the highest. I realize there are a million > reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude, weight o f > plane and cargo, prop differences, etc.) > > Thanks, Mike Welch > MkIII > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live=99 Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out. > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:06 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks From: "tlongo" If you are worried about fuel problems put a pressure gauge in carburetor feed line and you will know even before problem gives you an engine out. I have the new 6 gal tanks with top feed and have never had any problems, had the older 5 gal with bottom feed and also never had any problems. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234081#234081 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:35 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rate of climb Mark III, Classic with a Geo engine with windage tray and Raven furnished cam gets 400 ft/min at density altitude of around 6000' msl. The gross weight is 840 lbs. At a gross weight of 1030 lbs., the rate of climb is 100 ft/min or less. In summary, it is scary. Do not know what it will do at sea level, but the thrust is significantly more. Static thrust at 6000 msl is 307 lbs. and at sea level it is off of my scale which ends at about 320 lbs. The Geo is a super engine and the Raven belt re-drive is very smooth and reliable. Hopefully, I will get the plane down to Sacramento for some sea level testing. I am guessing that my rate of climb will be around 800 ft/min. We shall see. Vic N4201G ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:23 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fjuel rtanks John In re the recent talk about fuel tanks -- I've wondered why you have yours so high? It must reduce the power needed to get fuel to the engine, but must also raise the CG. Are there any noticeable handling differences between yours and a 'stock' Mark III? Russ so not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "cristalclear13" jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > At 09:04 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote: > Cristal, > > Now that you made the statement, you must be sensitive. Nothing is more > unattractive than someone who is anorexic. Your fairings look great and I > would say you are in the bloom of health. Let the Kolb worry about your > weight and go fly. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > do not archive Thanks Jack, How nice you are. In an attempt to be funny or head off kidding (which I tend to be on the receiving end alot) I'll cut myself down. But it's hard to tell joking on forums since less than 10% of understanding comes from words (and emoticons aren't too much help). The rest comes from diction, inflection, facial expressions, body language, etc. Back to your original concern...My weight and balance shows me safely within the CG range. My big trim tab affects my up and down elevator quite a bit so maybe that had something to do with it. I hadn't adjusted my trim when I was flying there because I was trying to get a feel for how quickly the gyrocopter was climbing/following. Maybe I'll ask the gyrocopter to fly with me some more and I can experiment with my trim tab and see if that makes a difference. Thanks. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234087#234087 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:12 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks From: "JetPilot" Rick, Where did you get the bottom draw fittings ? If they work on the thin Kolb plastic tanks that well without leaking, it would be worth it for me to change to bottom draw in my present tanks. The only reason I have not done this already is that I was not aware of any good fittings that would not leak for the Kolb tanks. tlongo wrote: > If you are worried about fuel problems put a pressure gauge in carburetor feed line and you will know even before problem gives you an engine out. I don't know how much change in pressure you would see as more and more bubbles enter the system, it may show up in time or it may not ??? This is not always the case though as Rick Points out. If air floods the system, it could be very sudden, you would see the fuel pressure drop at the same time your engine quits. Bottom draw is definitely the way to do if you can find a way to do it without leaks. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234088#234088 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:49 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video From: "JetPilot" A trim tab is used to position the elevator, it does not make much difference if you hold the stick by force, or if the trim tab does it for you, that just looks like bunch of down elevator in several of the shots ( it looks more constant, not just a momentary movement ). I don't see this as being related to the position of your trim tab at all. Kolbs are very different than other types of planes in many respects, which is why I would wonder what John Hauck would think about this. I would hate to get you all worried about this and then have John H come and say that half the Kolbs he flown fly with the elevator in that position ! But whenever you see something that looks different, its better to ask someone that knows then to just ignore it :) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234089#234089 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:38 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks From: "tlongo" I did have an air leak back when I had the 5 gal tanks with bottom feed. I use the clear blue type fuel line so I can see the fuel, that is how I spotted the air problem that ended up being a leaking squeeze bulb, but it did not leak fuel. I have since replaced squeeze bulb with electric fuel pump for prime and back up. The see trough line lets you know right away, just change it every year with maintenance. Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234097#234097 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Center Section From: "icrashrc" John, Hang on to the prop pitch tool for now. I won't need it again until the engine is back on my plane. There's the whole painting and covering thing between now and then. :-) Tell me more about the fairing that needs repaired BC. John Hauck wrote: > > I've added a fair amount to the page on the wing center section. > > > > > http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/WingCenterSection.htm > > > > Scott > > > > > > > Looks good. > > One of these days I must figure out how to repair the fairing that was made > for my mkIII in 2000. > > Let me know if you need the prop pitch tool back any time soon. I have to > send my blades to Warp Drive to have them refurbished before I can adjust > the pitch. Probably take a couple more weeks to get it done. > > john h > mkIII -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234104#234104 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:21 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video At 12:25 PM 3/10/09 -0700, JetPilot wrote: > >A trim tab is used to position the elevator, it does not make much difference if you hold the stick by force, or if the trim tab does it for you, that just looks like bunch of down elevator in several of the shots ( it looks more constant, not just a momentary movement ). I don't see this as being related to the position of your trim tab at all. > >Kolbs are very different than other types of planes in many respects, which is why I would wonder what John Hauck would think about this. I would hate to get you all worried about this and then have John H come and say that half the Kolbs he flown fly with the elevator in that position ! But whenever you see something that looks different, its better to ask someone that knows then to just ignore it :) > Mike, The reason I asked is that the air craft looked out of trim. If it was in level flight and trimmed out, I thought the horizontal stabilizer and elevator would have been in line with each other. If anything I would have expected the elevator to have been displaced upward to maintain a heavier load or climb. If down elevator is required for level flight with two people aboard, it might be good to adjust the horizontal stabilizer. A nephew took some photos during a July 4th 2007 fly over of the FireFly while in level flight. I have an elevator position indicator but I have never been able to verify that it was indicating properly. Both of these can be seen at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly137.html http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly102.html FWIW Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:16 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Bottom Drain Fuel Tank Bushings Mike The first set came from Kolb with my kit. I don't remember where I got the current set. I see Aircraft Spruce carries them. When I replaced the tanks I changed the fittings to fittings with a finger strainer and a shut off valve. AS part # FFV01 & FTB01. Again I make sure the hole is round and smooth with no burs. Then I push in the bushing, lubricate the fittings and push in the fitting. Never had a leak. Of course now that I said that.... I like to replace the rubber bushings and maybe the fuel tanks every 6 years or so. If nothing else I like to just spend a buck each every 5-6 years for a replacement rubber bushing, its also a good time to flush out your fuel tanks real good. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks > > Rick, > > Where did you get the bottom draw fittings ? If they work on the thin > Kolb plastic tanks that well without leaking, it would be worth it for me > to change to bottom draw in my present tanks. The only reason I have not > done this already is that I was not aware of any good fittings that would > not leak for the Kolb tanks. > > > tlongo wrote: >> If you are worried about fuel problems put a pressure gauge in carburetor >> feed line and you will know even before problem gives you an engine out. > > > I don't know how much change in pressure you would see as more and more > bubbles enter the system, it may show up in time or it may not ??? This > is not always the case though as Rick Points out. If air floods the > system, it could be very sudden, you would see the fuel pressure drop at > the same time your engine quits. Bottom draw is definitely the way to do > if you can find a way to do it without leaks. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234088#234088 > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:41 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks You make a lot of good points. Top draw fuel tanks just seem to add unnecessary opportunities for problems. Also top draw tanks would seem to be less forgiving of a low fuel level. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess I am having problems deciding on the difference between top and bottom feed tanks.... With a bottom feed tank your fuel pump is sucking gas from the bottom of the tank and forcing it to the engine via external lines to the tank. With a top feed tank your fuel pump is sucking gas from the bottom of the tank and forcing it to the engine via internal lines in the tank.. In either case if there are leaks there are problems if the leaks are above the tank it is going to suck air,,,, and if below the tank it is going to leak gas in the belly of the plane... neither sounds like a lot of fun. The only difference I could imagine is if one method left more unusable fuel in the tank when the tank was empty. Boyd Young KOLB MKIIIC 16 gal aluminum tank bottom fed at 2 points. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:24 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Bottom Drain Fuel Tank Bushings From: "George Alexander" NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > Mike > > The first set came from Kolb with my kit. I don't remember where I got the > current set. I see Aircraft Spruce carries them. When I replaced the tanks I > changed the fittings to fittings with a finger strainer and a shut off > valve. AS part # FFV01 & FTB01. > > Again I make sure the hole is round and smooth with no burs. Then I push in > the bushing, lubricate the fittings and push in the fitting. > < < > > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > --- Mike et al: Rick said it, but I would stress the point, lubricate the fitting and PUSH them in. Making sure that the fitting remains perpendicular to the surface where the bushing will seat. Any attempt to get it to go in by twisting and turning will possibly distort the hole and may increase the possibility of a leak. Would be more likely with the newer thin wall tanks. Tanks on my three previous airplanes, over the last dozen years were bottom fed. Unlike Rick, I was a big spender and changed them at least every other year. Probably didn't need to, but it made me feel better. Never had a leak. Just switched my FSII tanks over to bottom feed. -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234114#234114 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:17 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rate of climb Mike I have never measured the climb rate of my VW powered MKIIIC. I would guess it would be right even with or slightly less than a 80HP. Rotax. I also rate my engine at 80HP but that is a guesstimate Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:48 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Rate of climb Kolb guys, I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII (MkII, Classics, Xtras) I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the climb performance with various powered engines. Example...Rotax 582.....x# fpm, GEO (HP?)......x# fpm, Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm, Rotax 912 ULS.....x# fpm, VW (HP?) ...x# fpm Thanks. Your indulgence is appreciated. BTW. For those that are interested, I completely finished painting my entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes). Engine and propeller are remounted. I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator mount on Sunday. (pictures available for those who ask) I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to establish bragging rights for the highest. I realize there are a million reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude, weight of plane and cargo, prop differences, etc.) Thanks, Mike Welch MkIII ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Windows Live=99 Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:27 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rate of climb At 08:48 AM 3/10/2009, Mike Welch wrote: > I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I > don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. I know you only asked about MKIII's, but for sake of comparison, my Cuyuna powered UltraStar does 500fpm at about 40-45mph, on a warm day with 475# AUW. -Dana -- Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:35 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rate of climb At 08:48 AM 3/10/2009, Mike Welch wrote: > I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I > don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers. I know you only asked about MKIII's, but for sake of comparison, my Cuyuna powered UltraStar does 500fpm at about 40-45mph, on a warm day with 475# AUW. -Dana -- Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks From: zeprep251@aol.com Rick et all, ?? 3 weeks after I bought the MK-3 I opened the hanger to see fuel dripping out of the drain holes in the bottom of the fuselage.I really can't say how old the grommets were,but I converted to top feed tanks and use? clear line from the tanks thru the filter mounted on top of the tanks where I can see it.From the gascolater, to elec pump, to the engine? driven pump are all plumbed with black fuel injection quality hose.Need to see if any air is getting in at the top and the clear? line lets me check that easily.And Rick,,where can you get that110LL? : ) ???????????????????????????? G Aman -----Original Message----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:34 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks ? Mike/All? ? You make a lot of good points. Top draw fuel tanks just seem to add unnecessary opportunities for problems. Also top draw tanks would seem to be less forgiving of a low fuel level. A turn or turbulence could uncover a fuel feed causing at least higher hart rate much quicker than with bottom feed. I have never landed with less than three total gallons and normally get nervous when I get to 5 gallons but if I were to need it.? ? As for leaks on bottom draw tanks I have never had one. At six years I purchased new tanks and new rubber plug things. I think it is three years on the new tanks. Another 3-4 years I will replace the current tanks with the new 6 gallon tanks. I have always used a step drill and cleaned up the holes before inserting the plugs, then the fittings. I have never had a leak and have used that 10% ethanol crap for at least 6 years since that is the only fuel they sell in Michigan. On trips I use 110LL but that isn't the norm.? ? Rick Neilsen? Redrive VW powered MKIIIC? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" ? Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:13 PM? Subject: Kolb-List: Re: top drawl tanks? ? >? >? > tc1917(at)bellsouth.net wrote:? >>? >> Also, if the same leak that stopped the top? >> feeders happened to the bottom feeders -- well, you have to call the fire? >> department (while flying)!!? >>? >? >? > It would be difficult to keep a thin bottom feed plastic tank sealed, > which is exactly why I still use the top feed on my Kolb fuel tanks. The > top feed tank is not preferred in aviation, but it works fine if much care > is used not to get any type of leak anywhere above the fuel level. In the > thin plastic tanks as we have in our Kolbs, I will keep using top feed. > Given this top feed, there are several things you need to be careful of > and consider though !? >? > As far as a leak goes, air leaks at a MUCH faster rate than fuel does, and > air is generally not detectable. A pinhole that would just cause a bit of > gas moisture on a fitting on the bottom of the tank, would flood the > system with air and result in an engine failure at the top of the tank. > If a valve, or filter develops a small leak under positive pressure would > quickly be caught in a preflight as an area being moist with gas, the same > pinhole in above the tanks ( in an area of suction ) would not be > detectable in most cases until the engine quit. I have no sparks or > flames around my fuel fittings in my Kolb, and while a very slow drip or > even moisture would not be acceptable and would be immediately corrected > before any flight, such a slow leak as a drip every couple of minutes > would NOT result in an in-flight fire. The same slow leak with air > leaking in as opposed to gas leaking out would result in an emergency > though ! I would rather see some gasoline moisture in a pr!? > eflight, or a very small slow drip than having my engine suddenly quit. > This is why I place all my fuel valves, filters, and gascolators below > the tank level in my Kolb, this is good fuel system design.? >? > A forced landing in bad terrain is much more likely to result in a fire > than a very slow drip that can be caught in a preflight [Shocked]? >? > Mike? >? > --------? > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!!? >? > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S? >? >? >? >? > Read this topic online here:? >? > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234059#234059? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? > ? ? ? ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rate of climb From: "Jimmy Young" Mike, Robert Laird will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but last November we were both in his 912S powered MK III, climbing out at over 1100 fpm on an 80 degree mid-day flight, & I know we have to weigh over 440 lbs combined. (Pretty evenly split between us by the way, and there won't be any downward corrections regarding the weight!) -------- Jimmy Young FS II, Generac V-Twin Houston TX area Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234129#234129 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rate of climb From: Robert Laird That's correct. Field elevation is about 235 MSL. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Jimmy Young wrote: > > Mike, > > Robert Laird will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but last November we > were both in his 912S powered MK III, climbing out at over 1100 fpm on an 80 > degree mid-day flight, & I know we have to weigh over 440 lbs combined. > > (Pretty evenly split between us by the way, and there won't be any > downward corrections regarding the weight!) > > -------- > Jimmy Young > FS II, Generac V-Twin > Houston TX area > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234129#234129 > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:45 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Fjuel rtanks I've wondered why you have > yours so high? It must reduce the power needed to get fuel to the engine, > but must also raise the CG. Are there any noticeable handling differences > between yours and a 'stock' > Mark III? > Russ Russ: My fuel tank is high because where it was located was empty, open space in the standard mkIII. 25 gals fits that space perfect. Homer left this space open to have 360 deg visibility. My neck won't twist that far around. Getting fuel to the engine with less power had nothing to do with the location of the tank. I don't understand "raising the CG". There are no noticeable handling differences between my mkIII and a stock mkIII. Location of the tank did not affect fore and aft, or lateral cg. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:39 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS From: "lucien" Hi all, I asked this over on the titan list, but thought I'd ask you guys here that run the warp drive on the 912ULS. I got mine fitted to my engine this evening and at this point, it's set to about 5350 static RPM. Mine's a 68" 3 blade. My question is, what do you guys aim for pitch-wise and/or static rpm wise? PS the fasteners I got are a perfect fit for attaching the extension, for those of you who remember my thread on the bolts.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234150#234150 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:50 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rate of climb From: "Richard Pike" MKIII Classic. Various mods, center section of wing is separate from fuselage, has VG's, other mods. Empty weight about 535. Using a 582 with a 2 blade 68" Ivo, 2.58:1 B box, solo with full fuel on a summer day typically gives a climb rate of around 800-900'/minute@6250 rpm. In the winter, a climb rate of 1000-1200'/min @ 6250 rpm, all at between 2-3,000 msl. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234153#234153 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:52 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS > I got mine fitted to my engine this evening and at this point, it's set to about 5350 static RPM. Mine's a 68" 3 blade. > > My question is, what do you guys aim for pitch-wise and/or static rpm > wise? > > PS the fasteners I got are a perfect fit for attaching the extension, for > those of you who remember my thread on the bolts.... > > LS That's a good place to start for me. Usually, 5400 static will give me 5500 WOT straight and level flight. That gives me the best of both takeoff and cruise. May be different for the Titan, because it is so much cleaner than the mkIII, but I'd give it a shot and see how it works out. Would not be surprised if you had to pull a little more pitch into it. Not having experience with the Titan, I could only venture a guess. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > > That's a good place to start for me. Usually, 5400 static will give me 5500 > WOT straight and level flight. That gives me the best of both takeoff and > cruise. > > May be different for the Titan, because it is so much cleaner than the > mkIII, but I'd give it a shot and see how it works out. > > Would not be surprised if you had to pull a little more pitch into it. Not > having experience with the Titan, I could only venture a guess. > > john h > mkIII Ok, thanks john. If the winds lay down at all tomorrow I may take it around the patch to see what I got. Just wanted to know if I wasn't underpropped before flying it, don't want it to run away on me.... If all goes well with work, wx, etc, I'm hoping it takes me and the plane to MV in May.. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234156#234156 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:46 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS > If all goes well with work, wx, etc, I'm hoping it takes me and the plane to MV in May.. > > LS I bet it will. Warp Drive Props have certainly pushed my around all over the place, and back... john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:40 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Static rpm - warp drive/912ULS From: "JetPilot" I like my Warp Drive prop a lot, I get a static RPM of about 5200, which is about the same in climb. Your titan is a little faster, but I think the 5350 RPM you have now is a good safe place to start. It might be a little high for your fast Titan, but if so you will know it long before you over rev the engine. Take it up, see what the RPM is at cruise, and then adjust from there if need be. I am looking forward to hearing your report on the prop. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234159#234159 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.