---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/20/09: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? (william sullivan) 2. 05:57 AM - Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (lucien) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (John Hauck) 4. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (herb) 5. 06:46 AM - Re: Owyhee Canyon Pictures (John Hauck) 6. 06:46 AM - Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (robert bean) 7. 06:48 AM - DHS Initiatives Could "Lock Out" General Aviation (Ralph B) 8. 07:01 AM - Re: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (Mike Welch) 9. 07:46 AM - Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (Jack B. Hart) 10. 08:08 AM - AirVenture 2009 (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 11. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? (Larry Cottrell) 12. 08:17 AM - Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (lucien) 13. 08:18 AM - Engine monitoring (Mike Welch) 14. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? (Mike Welch) 15. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? (Larry Cottrell) 16. 09:02 AM - Re: Engine monitoring (herb) 17. 10:55 AM - Re: Engine monitoring (Mike Welch) 18. 12:47 PM - Re: Engine monitoring (robert bean) 19. 12:48 PM - Warp Drive bolt torque (william sullivan) 20. 01:00 PM - Headsets & intercom selection for Mark III Xtra! (faisalasif) 21. 01:04 PM - Re: Warp Drive bolt torque (Larry Cottrell) 22. 01:47 PM - Warp Drive bolt torque (william sullivan) 23. 02:10 PM - Seeking instructor in FL (Watkinsdw) 24. 03:06 PM - Re: Headsets & intercom selection for Mark III Xtra! (lucien) 25. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? (zeprep251@aol.com) 26. 03:59 PM - Re: Headsets & intercom selection for Mark III Xtra! (Dana Hague) 27. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas (Richard Girard) 28. 04:47 PM - Re: Engine monitoring (John Hauck) 29. 05:34 PM - Re: Engine monitoring (Mike Welch) 30. 05:48 PM - Re: Engine monitoring (John Hauck) 31. 06:02 PM - Re: Engine monitoring (Mike Welch) 32. 06:18 PM - Homer Kolb (John Hauck) 33. 06:18 PM - Re: Engine monitoring (John Hauck) 34. 07:03 PM - Re: Engine monitoring (Mike Welch) 35. 07:38 PM - Re: AirVenture 2009 (ces308) 36. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: AirVenture 2009 (John Hauck) 37. 07:53 PM - Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (Jim Baker) 38. 08:03 PM - Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (John Hauck) 39. 08:37 PM - Re: AirVenture 2009 (ces308) 40. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: AirVenture 2009 (John Hauck) 41. 09:08 PM - Re: AirVenture 2009 (ces308) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:19 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? - Larry- Have you tried flying without the gap seal?- Maybe it's just t he angle of the photo, but it looks like almost 1/2 of the cooler's air flo w os blocked. - ------------------------- ------------------------ ------------------------- ------------------ Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------ Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas From: "lucien" Arty Trost wrote: > In this month's issue of Ultraflight magazine, in Rotax Talk by Ronnie Smith, he says (for those of us using two-strokes and E-10 mogas): > > "Remember also that there will be an altitude limit on the use of this 10% [ethanol gas]. I think it's around 7500 ft. MSL. Why? Well, car gas will start to vapor lock at higher altitudes so you have to watch this." > > He goes on to say that if we're flying about 7500 ft MSL we should use 100LL which has a lower vapor pressure than auto gas. > > Anyone heard of this? Had this happen? I know I'll be flying above 7500 MSL on my flight to Florida and am curious if any of you other two-strokers have ever experienced this or heard of it. > > Arty Trost > Sandy, Oregon > > > www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm I've heard this too, but havn't tried running E10 in anything yet except my pickup. I often drive in it up to the local ski area, tho, which ends up at a little over 10,000' MSL once I get to the top and havn't had any problems with vapor lock (tho it's fuel injected which may help?). In the plane, 7500' MSL is approx. pattern altitude for me and I often bump right up against 10,000'MSL when I do have time to leave the pattern.... I've been lucky and able to find pure unleaded autogas in town and have no problems with it at those altitudes. But I'd be a little worried about E10 way up there. I flew my FSII here for a while before I sold it and didn't have problems with vapor lock, but again we hadn't been infiltrated with E10 at the time. I'd say 100LL would be the safest route for flying at high altitudes if you're worried about it.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235349#235349 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:25 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas > He goes on to say that if we're flying about 7500 ft MSL we should use 100LL which has a lower vapor pressure than auto gas. > > Arty Trost Arty: During my two stroke cross country days, I used 100LL primarily because that was normally all that was available. It costs more, but two strokes as well and four strokes operate well on it. Only drawback during a long cross country my be lead fouling, which can be remedied in a few minutes by pulling the spark plugs and cleaning the lead off the plug with a pen knife or piece of safety wire. It is usually soft and comes right off. With dual ignition now days, a plug will let you know when it starts to get loaded up. Then again, today's two strokes may not be affected. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:34 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas Wondering if a mix of MO. and AV. would do the trick? by the way...Av gas is a really good degreaser...beats those spray cans ...Use carefully...and in the open... Works in a chemical sprayer...Herb and ...I have two buds who run Hirth engines sucessfully...Twin opposed model.... At 07:56 AM 3/20/2009, you wrote: > > >Arty Trost wrote: > > In this month's issue of Ultraflight magazine, in Rotax Talk by > Ronnie Smith, he says (for those of us using two-strokes and E-10 mogas): > > > > "Remember also that there will be an altitude limit on the use of > this 10% [ethanol gas]. I think it's around 7500 ft. MSL. Why? > Well, car gas will start to vapor lock at higher altitudes so you > have to watch this." > > > > He goes on to say that if we're flying about 7500 ft MSL we > should use 100LL which has a lower vapor pressure than auto gas. > > > > Anyone heard of this? Had this happen? I know I'll be flying > above 7500 MSL on my flight to Florida and am curious if any of you > other two-strokers have ever experienced this or heard of it. > > > > Arty Trost > > Sandy, Oregon > > > > > > www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm > > >I've heard this too, but havn't tried running E10 in anything yet >except my pickup. > >I often drive in it up to the local ski area, tho, which ends up at >a little over 10,000' MSL once I get to the top and havn't had any >problems with vapor lock (tho it's fuel injected which may help?). > >In the plane, 7500' MSL is approx. pattern altitude for me and I >often bump right up against 10,000'MSL when I do have time to leave >the pattern.... > >I've been lucky and able to find pure unleaded autogas in town and >have no problems with it at those altitudes. But I'd be a little >worried about E10 way up there. > >I flew my FSII here for a while before I sold it and didn't have >problems with vapor lock, but again we hadn't been infiltrated with >E10 at the time. > >I'd say 100LL would be the safest route for flying at high altitudes >if you're worried about it.... > >LS > >-------- >LS >Titan II SS > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235349#235349 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:53 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Owyhee Canyon Pictures Looks like more than half of your oil cooler is blocked by the gap seal. With the muffler positioned where it is, that may also be degrading the oil cooler's performance. The oil cooler placed under and rear of the muffler may be kicking air off of or blocking cooling air from the cylinders. A couple straight stacks out the rear of the engine would eliminate that bi g "can" muffler. Got to be disrupting air flow and increasing drag. I know you want your airplane quiet, and I don't blame you. Wish mine coul d be put into stealth mode, as my hearing quickly fades away. Very fatigui ng flying all day in a snare drum like mine. john h As you can see the muffler and oil cooler block a lot of air. I am j ust not sure if moving the cooler will make that much difference however. O h if you are wondering this was the set up that was sucessful on a Slingsho t. I am not convinced that it is going to work on a Firestar however. Larry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:53 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas I don't know the comparative vapor pressures of ethanol and mogas but auto gas is blended with higher vapor pressures in the winter for easier cold weather starting -or at least it was. Summer blend should be ok at 10K as far as vapor pressure. My concern is moisture content which can condense out as carb frost. The quality control of 100LL would probably be the important factor to consider when flying over those craggy rocks. BB On 20, Mar 2009, at 1:11 AM, TheWanderingWench wrote: > > > > In this month's issue of Ultraflight magazine, in Rotax Talk by > Ronnie Smith, he says (for those of us using two-strokes and E-10 > mogas): > > "Remember also that there will be an altitude limit on the use of > this 10% [ethanol gas]. I think it's around 7500 ft. MSL. Why? > Well, car gas will start to vapor lock at higher altitudes so you > have to watch this." > > He goes on to say that if we're flying about 7500 ft MSL we should > use 100LL which has a lower vapor pressure than auto gas. > > Anyone heard of this? Had this happen? I know I'll be flying above > 7500 MSL on my flight to Florida and am curious if any of you other > two-strokers have ever experienced this or heard of it. > > Arty Trost > Sandy, Oregon > > > www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:55 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: DHS Initiatives Could "Lock Out" General Aviation From: "Ralph B" March 19, 2009 General aviation is under attack on several fronts in the name of national security. While the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its divisions adopt a whatever it takes posture, the people who fly aircraft for fun, education, philanthropy, and business are asking whether severe restrictions on freedoms are worth marginal enhancements to security. When the cost of lost liberties are combined with the significant dollars required of aviators and airports to comply with these initiatives, an unfavorable cost-to-benefit ratio becomes strikingly evident. DHS is throwing several security initiatives at general aviation at once, challenging aircraft operators not only to differentiate them but also to understand how they interrelate. Accordingly, EAA has posted an analysis that sorts out the issues and identifies common themes. The combined effect of these initiatives would be stifling to general aviation. Imagine security requirements that would: o Force aviators to acquire government approval before each flight in certain general aviation aircraft. o Require private citizens to develop and implement costly security-compliance programs. o Hamstring historic aircraft operations such as EAAs B-17 tour. o Limit our military-veteran aviators freedom to fly historic airplanes like the ones that, ironically, they flew in service to defend American freedoms. o Restrict access to the airport for pilots, owners, and their guests. o Make it difficult or impossible to conduct certain Young Eagles events. o Force pilots and passengers to stay in the aircraft when arriving as a transient flight at an airport until an authorized person becomes available to escort them from the aircraft. o Limit the publics access to engage in and support general aviation activities. o Limit the interactive and social elements of participation in flight that are so important to a thriving general aviation community. Members of EAAs Regulatory Affairs staff remind EAAers that these and more consequences could result if the general aviation community fails to rally to protect its interests. They encourage you to stay informed, spread the word, and be prepared to act. -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 almost 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235355#235355 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:45 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas > I often drive in it up to the local ski area=2C tho=2C which ends up at a little over 10=2C000' MSL once I get to the top and havn't had any problem s with vapor lock (tho it's fuel injected which may help?). -------- > LS > Titan II SS Lucien=2C In your truck=2C you will likely never have a problem using E10 auto gas =2C even at 18=2C000 MSL.(providing it was built to handle E10) This is be cause your truck/car is run by a computer ECU=2C using a miriad of sensors to keep the engine in tune. It uses: 1) a coolant temperature sensor (colder engines get more fuel than warmer e ngines) 2) MAP (mainfold atmospheric pressure) for incoming combustion air 3) O2 sensor (to determine the Air/Fuel ratio) 4) MAF (mass air flow) to determine the volume of air being consumed 5) FPR (fuel pressure regulator) the computer uses this information to det ermine the pulse width that the ECU tells the fuel injector to pulse fuel. (i.e. lower pressure gets more pulse width) There are many other sensors=2C including those that the engine uses to a djust the ignition timing=2C fuel enrichment=2C etc. Comparing an automobile engine's reaction to E10 has nothing to do with h ow an airplane engine will react=2C unless=2C of course=2C your airplane's engine is governed by an ECU (electronic computer unit) The ECU monitors a ll the necessary engine parameters dozens of times a second. Comparing an airplane engine with a carburetor=2C and a truck using E10 a utogas=2C is much like comparing an apple with an orange. Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Get quick access to your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037 MSN55C0701A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:56 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas At 09:46 AM 3/20/09 -0400, you wrote: > >Summer blend should be ok at 10K as far as vapor pressure. My >concern is moisture content >which can condense out as carb frost. The quality control of 100LL >would probably be the important factor >to consider when flying over those craggy rocks. >BB Bob, Given equal handling and storage of E-10 and non E-10 fuel, I would think that the E-10 would reduce the ice tendency. With the alcohol in the fuel, it would take up the water and pass it on through to the engine. Any additional water that can not be held in the alcohol will fall out and remain in the bottom of the tank or carb bowl and have no effect on carb icing. I believe the greatest threat of carb icing come from high humidity air and not the fuel. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:27 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: AirVenture 2009 May I suggest Oshkosh July 27-Aug 2 for another Kolb flyin. Its been real lonely in the UL/LSA camp ground the last few years. Last year there was for the first time was a Port-o-let in the camp ground. John's friend Karla (head of the ultralight council) made it clear that it wouldn't be allowed ever again. In spite of the cold reception we get there it is a good time. It is important that we fly in and show the EAA that there is still some interest in ultralights and LSAs. I have tried to get it across to the EAA that Sun N Fun still has a strong showing of ultralights and LSA. Maybe they are doing something different. Last year there were only three to four planes in the camp ground and at times there was no one flying. We were being told the ultralight vendor area would be changed to antique plane parking. At the risk of sounding negative I don't want the bastards to win and completely close down the ultralight area at Airventure (Oshkosh). Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:32 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Bill, At least half of the coolers air flow is blocked, but I still have the rest of the exposed top part taped off to get the oil temps up above 170 degrees. I will remove the tape when I fly today. The oil is plenty cool, the heads are not. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:28 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Larry- Have you tried flying without the gap seal? Maybe it's just the angle of the photo, but it looks like almost 1/2 of the cooler's air flow os blocked. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/19/09 12:26:00 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:09 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas From: "lucien" herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: > Wondering if a mix of MO. and AV. would do the trick? > Blends like this seem to be acceptable by Rotax as they recommend it to get the octane rating correct if part of the gas is 87 regular. By that time tho you may as well just run 100LL period as a convenience measure. I ran my 447 on my trike on pure 100LL for about 100 hours. Turned out the plugs lasted almost 50 hours before I began to notice any problems. So I think the fouling issue might not actually be that bad. It wasn't for me. I ran 100LL a fair bit in my 503's as well (more than 30% of the time for sure on the one I put on my trike to replace the 447) and didn't start getting a mag drop for at least 40 hours. So I'd just run 100LL and install a fresh set of plugs at the start of the trip to zero them out. When I go places underneath my 912 I usually put at least some 100LL in the tank if not a full tank. Gives an extra bit of insurance against vapor lock as I climb up towards the stratosphere..... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235366#235366 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:53 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring Kolbers=2C Question: Doesn't the Rotax 912 use altitude compensating carbs? It see ms like I remember hearing that from years ago. Or was it Bing carbs=2C in general? Regarding engine monitoring: Are you guys aware that there a slew of gau ges and sensors "out there" that you can use to know exactly what's going o n with your engine? These "gauges & sensors" are stand-alone monitoring devices. That is=2C they work all by themselves=2C and not dependant of anything else. Example: a Wideband O2 sensor and digital gauge will tell you EXACTLY wh at your fuel/air ratio is. The digital gauges have an alarm mode=2C in the event your engine becomes too lean. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PLX-DEVICES-SM-AFR-DM-5-52MM-GAUGE-WIDEBAND- KIT-BLACK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ022QQitemZ350177800390QQrdZ1Q QsspagenameZWDVW You can also get a digital EGT gauge ( with preset alarm parameters): http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&zenid=cfe62dc03 26887ee2f3a93405677be5b I have BOTH of these gauges=2C along with several others=2C to provide de tailed engine monitoring. Maybe some of us don't care too precisely what i s going on inside our engines=2C but I do. Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200 9 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:20 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Larry=2C If your cylinder heads run cool(ish)=2C and the EGTs run hot=2C this may be a result of too advanced timing. Is there any way to adjust timing to r etard about 2-3 degrees? Mike Welch From: lcottrell@fmtcblue.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Bill=2C At least half of the coolers air flow is blocked=2C but I still have th e rest of the exposed top part taped off to get the oil temps up above 170 degrees. I will remove the tape when I fly today. The oil is plenty cool=2C the heads are not. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan Sent: Friday=2C March 20=2C 2009 5:28 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30 ? Larry- Have you tried flying without the gap seal? Maybe it's just the a ngle of the photo=2C but it looks like almost 1/2 of the cooler's air flow os blocked. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks=2C Ct. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - Release Date: 03/19/09 12:26:00 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200 9 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:43 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? The cylinder heads are bumping redline at any rpm over 5200. (max is 6200 allowable) the EGT's max is 1400. They are 1150. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Larry, If your cylinder heads run cool(ish), and the EGTs run hot, this may be a result of too advanced timing. Is there any way to adjust timing to retard about 2-3 degrees? Mike Welch ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: lcottrell@fmtcblue.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:04:43 -0600 Bill, At least half of the coolers air flow is blocked, but I still have the rest of the exposed top part taped off to get the oil temps up above 170 degrees. I will remove the tape when I fly today. The oil is plenty cool, the heads are not. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:28 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Larry- Have you tried flying without the gap seal? Maybe it's just the angle of the photo, but it looks like almost 1/2 of the cooler's air flow os blocked. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - Release Date: 03/19/09 12:26:00 ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/20/09 06:59:00 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:58 AM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring Frugal Herb here... Mike. I wonder if any of the O2 sensors are "less" succeptible to leaded gas? 100 octane is the minuimum analysis...I recall accepting the delivery of a truck of av gas at a local airport that had an analysis of 119 octane... . High Octane gas is regular gas with additives...to slow the burn mainly...everyone knows this I guess? Maybe the O2 sensor can be brought back to life with a blow torch? burn the lead off. In our application...all that is needed is a single wire sensor with the calibration curve--ie: micro volts output indicates O2 ratio... This output could be easily amplified and sent to an analog gauge , calibrated to indicate the ratio. The Zirconia sensor crosses to 14.7 ratio at about 400 micro volts ... an analog meter...0 to 1000 micro volts would suffice.. In some applications of auto engines to planes; the O2 sensor is replaced by an adjustable voltage source on the instrument panel... Poor mans Mixture control...set by using the EGT gauge.. Feed the signal into the computer on the O2 input lines.. Herb Ps.. Bro Pike Discovered a good use for our 20 buck noise reduction head phones...from the aviation dept at Wally.World... When mowing ,,, no input ..just turn it on...stick the cable in your shirt pocket...:-) Good pair of noise muff's cost that much... At 10:18 AM 3/20/2009, you wrote: >Kolbers, > > Question: Doesn't the Rotax 912 use altitude > compensating carbs? It seems like I remember > hearing that from years ago. Or was it Bing carbs, in general? > > Regarding engine monitoring: Are you guys > aware that there a slew of gauges and sensors > "out there" that you can use to know exactly what's going on with your engine? > > These "gauges & sensors" are stand-alone > monitoring devices. That is, they work all by > themselves, and not dependant of anything else. > > Example: a Wideband O2 sensor and digital > gauge will tell you EXACTLY what your fuel/air > ratio is. The digital gauges have an alarm > mode, in the event your engine becomes too lean. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PLX-DEVICES-SM-AFR-DM-5-52MM -GAUGE-WIDEBAND-KIT-BLACK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ022QQitemZ3501 77800390QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW > > You can also get a digital EGT gauge ( with preset alarm parameters): > >http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPa th=5&zenid=cfe62dc0326887ee2f3a93405677be5b > > I have BOTH of these gauges, along with > several others, to provide detailed engine > monitoring. Maybe some of us don't care too > precisely what is going on inside our engines, but I do. > >Mike Welch >MkIII > > >---------- >Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news >travels really fast. >Find >out more. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:42 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring Herb=2C Nope=2C I don't think ANY of the O2 sensors will work very well with a st eady diet of leaded gasoline. Eventually=2C you'll get lead buildup. As far as cleaning them goes=2C I doubt a blow touch would be a good idea . I haven't done a google search to see if anyone knows how to remove lead deposits from O2 sensors. The O2 sensor I have says to mount it at least 24" away from the cylinders. It will burn up if exposed to high heat (blow torch). Again=2C I haven't done the research=2C but I think some sort of chemical bath may clean them. Just guessing=2C tho. It's entirely possible that o nce they clogged with lead=2C they're shot! For very precise AFR (air/fuel ratio) readings=2C a person would want the Wideband O2 sensor/gauge. The standard O2 sensor=2C with a voltage range of 0 to 1 volt=2C just isn't accurate enough for rapid determination of AFR .. The wideband O2 sensor ranges from 0 to 5 volts. (The sensitivity is muc h greater than a standard O2 sensor.) The Wideband gauge likely contains a ll the electronics you mentioned. Mike MkIII From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring Frugal Herb here... Mike. I wonder if any of the O2 sensors are "less" succeptible to lead ed gas? 100 octane is the minuimum analysis...I recall accepting the d elivery of a truck of av gas at a local airport that had an analysis of 119 octane... . High Octane gas is regular gas with additives...to slow the burn mainly...everyone knows this I guess? Maybe the O2 sensor can be brought back to life with a blow torch? burn th e lead off. In our application...all that is needed is a single wire sensor with the calibration curve--ie: micro volts output indicates O2 ratio... This o utput could be easily amplified and sent to an analog gauge =2C calibrated to indicate the ratio. The Zirconia sensor crosses to 14.7 ratio at ab out 400 micro volts ... an analog meter...0 to 1000 micro volts would suffi ce.. In some applications of auto engines to planes=3B the O2 sensor is replace d by an adjustable voltage source on the instrument panel... Poor mans Mi xture control...set by using the EGT gauge.. Feed the signal into the compu ter on the O2 input lines.. Herb Ps.. Bro Pike Discovered a good use for our 20 buck noise reduction head phones...from the aviation dept at Wally.World... When mowing =2C=2C=2C no input ..just turn it on...stick the cable in your shirt pocket...:-) Good pair of noi se muff's cost that much... At 10:18 AM 3/20/2009=2C you wrote: Kolbers=2C Question: Doesn't the Rotax 912 use altitude compensating carbs? It see ms like I remember hearing that from years ago. Or was it Bing carbs=2C in general? Regarding engine monitoring: Are you guys aware that there a slew of gau ges and sensors "out there" that you can use to know exactly what's going o n with your engine? These "gauges & sensors" are stand-alone monitoring devices. That is=2C they work all by themselves=2C and not dependant of anything else. Example: a Wideband O2 sensor and digital gauge will tell you EXACTLY wh at your fuel/air ratio is. The digital gauges have an alarm mode=2C in the event your engine becomes too lean. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PLX-DEVICES-SM-AFR-DM-5-52MM-GAUGE-WIDEBAND- KIT-BLACK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ022QQitemZ350177800390QQrdZ1Q QsspagenameZWDVW You can also get a digital EGT gauge ( with preset alarm parameters): http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&zenid=cfe62dc03 26887ee2f3a93405677be5b I have BOTH of these gauges=2C along with several others=2C to provide de tailed engine monitoring. Maybe some of us don't care too precisely what i s going on inside our engines=2C but I do. Mike Welch MkIII Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail=AE .. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MS GTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:51 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring I set my old teakettle solex up with a one wire sensor. They are reasonably accurate but don't have any preheat function (reference stabilized voltage) like the gooder ones. -So to get a reading you have to set up an rpm, wait for the voltage to stabilize, and write it down. Maybe not too handy for everyday flight. In my case I was only using it to set up the three frustrating variables of the idle, main and economizer jets. THere was also a full throttle gas-dumper that I blocked off. -A time consuming, stress inducing job, tail tied down, repeated throttle range runups, airplane jumping around, but, once done, zero maintenance from then on. The sensor is now on a shelf. BB On 20, Mar 2009, at 1:54 PM, Mike Welch wrote: > Herb, > > Nope, I don't think ANY of the O2 sensors will work very well > with a steady diet of leaded gasoline. Eventually, you'll get lead > buildup. > As far as cleaning them goes, I doubt a blow touch would be a > good idea. I haven't done a google search to see if anyone knows > how to remove lead deposits from O2 sensors. The O2 sensor I have > says to mount it at least 24" away from the cylinders. It will > burn up if exposed to high heat (blow torch). > Again, I haven't done the research, but I think some sort of > chemical bath may clean them. Just guessing, tho. It's entirely > possible that once they clogged with lead, they're shot! > > For very precise AFR (air/fuel ratio) readings, a person would > want the Wideband O2 sensor/gauge. The standard O2 sensor, with a > voltage range of 0 to 1 volt, just isn't accurate enough for rapid > determination of AFR. > The wideband O2 sensor ranges from 0 to 5 volts. (The > sensitivity is much greater than a standard O2 sensor.) The > Wideband gauge likely contains all the electronics you mentioned. > > Mike > MkIII > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:59:08 -0500 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > From: herbgh@nctc.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring > > Frugal Herb here... > > Mike. I wonder if any of the O2 sensors are "less" succeptible > to leaded gas? 100 octane is the minuimum analysis...I recall > accepting the delivery of a truck of av gas at a local airport that > had an analysis of 119 octane... . High Octane gas is regular gas > with additives...to slow the burn mainly...everyone knows this I > guess? > > Maybe the O2 sensor can be brought back to life with a blow torch? > burn the lead off. > > > In our application...all that is needed is a single wire sensor > with the calibration curve--ie: micro volts output indicates O2 > ratio... This output could be easily amplified and sent to an > analog gauge , calibrated to indicate the ratio. The Zirconia > sensor crosses to 14.7 ratio at about 400 micro volts ... an analog > meter...0 to 1000 micro volts would suffice.. > > In some applications of auto engines to planes; the O2 sensor is > replaced by an adjustable voltage source on the instrument > panel... Poor mans Mixture control...set by using the EGT gauge.. > Feed the signal into the computer on the O2 input lines.. > > Herb > Ps.. > > > Bro Pike > > Discovered a good use for our 20 buck noise reduction head > phones...from the aviation dept at Wally.World... When mowing ,,, > no input ..just turn it on...stick the cable in your shirt > pocket...:-) Good pair of noise muff's cost that much... > > > At 10:18 AM 3/20/2009, you wrote: > Kolbers, > > Question: Doesn't the Rotax 912 use altitude compensating > carbs? It seems like I remember hearing that from years ago. Or > was it Bing carbs, in general? > > Regarding engine monitoring: Are you guys aware that there a > slew of gauges and sensors "out there" that you can use to know > exactly what's going on with your engine? > > These "gauges & sensors" are stand-alone monitoring devices. > That is, they work all by themselves, and not dependant of anything > else. > > Example: a Wideband O2 sensor and digital gauge will tell you > EXACTLY what your fuel/air ratio is. The digital gauges have an > alarm mode, in the event your engine becomes too lean. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PLX-DEVICES-SM-AFR-DM-5-52MM-GAUGE- > WIDEBAND-KIT- > BLACK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ022QQitemZ350177800390QQrdZ1 > QQsspagenameZWDVW > > You can also get a digital EGT gauge ( with preset alarm > parameters): > > http://auberins.com/index.php? > main_page=index&cPath=5&zenid=cfe62dc0326887ee2f3a93405677be5b > > I have BOTH of these gauges, along with several others, to > provide detailed engine monitoring. Maybe some of us don't care > too precisely what is going on inside our engines, but I do. > > Mike Welch > MkIII > > Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. > Find out more. > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for > Hotmail=AE. See how. > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:18 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive bolt torque - Does anybody know the torque on the bolts that hold a Warp Drive prop t o the hub flange on a 447?- I called Warp Drive, and they are closed this week.- Thanks. - ------------------------- ------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct .. ------------------------- ------------------- FS 447 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:15 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Headsets & intercom selection for Mark III Xtra! From: "faisalasif" Dear All, Please can everyone give their feedback with their Headsets, commonly used Intercom, recommended intercom and recommended Headsets Please Let me know of the best cost/product compromise. I have selected ICOM IC-A24 NAV/COM as my radio. Comments/Experiences? Regards, faisal (at) Scaled.com.pk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235402#235402 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:05 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive bolt torque 175 inch pounds for the hub, 120 for the blades. Larry C ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive bolt torque Does anybody know the torque on the bolts that hold a Warp Drive prop to the hub flange on a 447? I called Warp Drive, and they are closed this week. Thanks. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/20/09 06:59:00 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:56 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive bolt torque - Thanks, Larry. - do not archive ------------------------- ----------- Bill Sullivan ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:20 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Seeking instructor in FL From: "Watkinsdw" Greetings. I'm hoping to acquire a Kolb in the very near future. Does anyone know of a CFI with Kolb experience who can provide training and a tailwheel endorsement in the South Florida area? I live in Deerfield beach, near Pompano apt (KPMP). My Cel # is 954 608 5423. Thanks! Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235408#235408 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Headsets & intercom selection for Mark III Xtra! From: "lucien" faisalasif wrote: > Dear All, > > Please can everyone give their feedback with their Headsets, > commonly used Intercom, recommended intercom and recommended Headsets > > Please Let me know of the best cost/product compromise. > > I have selected ICOM IC-A24 NAV/COM as my radio. Comments/Experiences? > > Regards, > > faisal (at) Scaled.com.pk I have an A24 handheld that I use as a handheld currently (not in the plane). Has nice big letters on the display that make it easy to see the current frequency. It also has a queue-like thing that stores the last 10 entered frequencies and you can rotate through them with the buttons. The external power jack is a smaller one than the one used on the A22 and others, so you'd have to rig something up for external power or get Icom's cigarette lighter adaptor (which would surely be $$$). It should work ok in a plane, tho turning it on requires pressing/holding the power button for 3 secs. Stupid, IMO. This may have to be done each time instead of simply coming on when power is applied (I havent' tried this with mine yet). As for headsets, I use the Telex stratus 50 digital. Expensive, but still way way cheaper than a bunch of hearing loss. It has a digital sampling type active NR, which is VERY effective and over a pretty broad range of frequencies. It's easily the quietest headset I've ever tried. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235415#235415 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? From: zeprep251@aol.com Larry, =C2- Have a friend with HKS on a hawk. The cooler is mounted on the fusela ge tube right behind the bulkhead. That leaves the heads unobstructed and st ill cools the oil well.The oil tank is just below engine level and about ove r the rear tank if it was in a Kolb FS.Get as much air to the heads as you c an. =C2-=C2- G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Larry Cottrell Sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:54 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? The cylinder heads are bumping redline at any rpm over 5200. (max is 6200 allowable) the EGT's max is 1400. They are 1150. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Larry, =C2- =C2- If your cylinder heads run cool(ish), and the EGTs run hot, this may be a result of too advanced timing.=C2- Is there any way to adjust timing to retard about 2-3 degrees? =C2- Mike Welch =C2- From: lcottrell@fmtcblue.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? Bill, =C2-=C2-=C2- At least=2 0half of the coolers air flow is blocked, but I still have the rest of the exposed top part=C2-taped o ff to get the oil temps up above 170 degrees. I will remove the tape when I f ly today. The oil is plenty cool, the heads are not. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:28 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb List: Anyone have experience with a Hirth F-30? =C2- Larry- Have you tried flying without the gap seal?=C2- Maybe it's just the angle of the photo, but it looks like almost 1 /2 of the cooler's air flow os blocked. =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Bill Sullivan =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C 2=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- Windsor Locks, Ct. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - Release Date: 03/19/09 12:26:00 ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution Hotmail=C2=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c - Release Date: 03/20/09 06:59:00 === ====== ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:58 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Headsets & intercom selection for Mark III Xtra! At 04:00 PM 3/20/2009, faisalasif wrote: > >Please can everyone give their feedback with their Headsets, >commonly used Intercom, recommended intercom and recommended Headsets > >Please Let me know of the best cost/product compromise. > >I have selected ICOM IC-A24 NAV/COM as my radio. Comments/Experiences? I have the A24 with a Comtronics helmet and and am happy with the combination. The Comtronics won't plug directly into the Icom but it's a straightforward adapter; I wired a homemade one into my plane with a PTT in the control stick. No intercom; there's nobody to talk to in a single seat airplane. :) The only issue is that you can't use the A24 with a headset or helmet unless you remote the antenna; you get a horrible RF feedback squeal when you try to transmit. Moving the antenna only two feet away (I mounted the rubber duck antenna that came with the radio under the cockpit floor, pointing straight down, with a 6' cord and adapter from Radio Shack) solves the problem. I've heard that only certain David Clark headsets don't have this problem, but I already had the helmet so moving the antenna was the simplest thing. With an intercom in the circuit that may not be an issue. I can hear just fine and everybody in the pattern says they can hear me just fine. I did need to go to resistor plugs for the engine. -Dana -- "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes." ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vapor Pressure and E-10 mogas From: Richard Girard Part of the vapor lock problem in airplanes versus automobiles is how the fuel is sent from the tank to the engine. I don't know of a modern car that pulls fuel from the tank. The fuel pump is in the tank and pushes it to the injectors. If you think you're going to have a problem with vapor lock you might want to think about putting a Facet pump close to the tank so any draw is short and from there on it's pushed to the carb(s).My two cents. Rick do not archive On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Mike Welch wrote: > > > I often drive in it up to the local ski area, tho, which ends up at a > little over 10,000' MSL once I get to the top and havn't had any problems > with vapor lock (tho it's fuel injected which may help?). > -------- > > LS > >II SS > > > Lucien, > > In your truck, you will likely never have a problem using E10 auto gas, > even at 18,000 MSL.(providing it was built to handle E10) This is because > your truck/car is run by a computer ECU, using a miriad of sensors to keep > the engine in tune. It uses: > > 1) a coolant temperature sensor (colder engines get more fuel than warmer > engines) > 2) MAP (mainfold atmospheric pressure) for incoming combustion air > 3) O2 sensor (to determine the Air/Fuel ratio) > 4) MAF (mass air flow) to determine the volume of air being consumed > 5) FPR (fuel pressure regulator) the computer uses this information to > determine the pulse width that the ECU tells the fuel injector to pulse > fuel. (i.e. lower pressure gets more pulse width) > > There are many other sensors, including those that the engine uses to > adjust the ignition timing, fuel enrichment, etc. > Comparing an automobile engine's reaction to E10 has nothing to do with > how an airplane engine will react, unless, of course, your airplane's engine > is governed by an ECU (electronic computer unit) The ECU monitors all the > necessary engine parameters dozens of times a second. > > Comparing an airplane engine with a carburetor, and a truck using E10 > autogas, is much like comparing an apple with an orange. > > Mike Welch > MkIII > > > ------------------------------ > Get quick access to your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. Download > FREE now! > > * > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:29 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring The Bing 64 is altitude and temperature compensating. How much? I don't know. John W and I both topped out at 15,000 feet MSL with the 912ULS engines. I use basic engine instruments on my 912 engines: Tach Oil Press Oil Temp CHT Volt Meter These basic instruments have been all that was necessary to operate the 912 engines safely. I like to keep my airplane as simple as possible. john h mkIII Question: Doesn't the Rotax 912 use altitude compensating carbs? It seems like I remember hearing that from years ago. Or was it Bing carbs, in general? Regarding engine monitoring: Are you guys aware that there a slew of gauges and sensors "out there" that you can use to know exactly what's going on with your engine? Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:02 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring John=2C Using the basic gauges you stated is probably all that's necessary in a w ell-proven engine like the 912. But=2C if a person has unique tuning problems=2C like AFRs causing lean m ixtures=2C overheating issues=2C and such=2C then there are some excellent guages available. For a select few=2C who aren't sure about how their engine is running=2C additional gauges may be helpful to allow them to dial-in their engine's ad justments. A Rotax 912 does it own density altitude adjustments. A valuable feature =2C indeed=2C but few other engines are so sophisticated. Even my Cessna 172 didn't do "automatic leaning". I had to turn the mixt ure control manaully=2C if I wanted to lean out the engine at altitude. I sold it last June. Can a 2 cycle or 4 cycle motor=2C tuned at sea level=2C become way too le an=2C if a person were to fly it at 10=2C000+ feet? If it is possible for this to happen (climb into a lean condition)=2C at least there are gauges t hat may help them take a different tuning approach. Mike Welch From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring The Bing 64 is altitude and temperature compensating. How much? I don't k now. John W and I both topped out at 15=2C000 feet MSL with the 912ULS eng ines. I use basic engine instruments on my 912 engines: Tach Oil Press Oil Temp CHT Volt Meter These basic instruments have been all that was necessary to operate the 912 engines safely. I like to keep my airplane as simple as possible. john h mkIII Question: Doesn't the Rotax 912 use altitude compensating carbs? It se ems like I remember hearing that from years ago. Or was it Bing carbs=2C i n general? Regarding engine monitoring: Are you guys aware that there a slew of gau ges and sensors "out there" that you can use to know exactly what's going o n with your engine? Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200 9 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:20 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring I doubt you'll ever find an engine leaning out at altitude. Normally, they get richer because of less oxygen/air. john h mkIII Can a 2 cycle or 4 cycle motor, tuned at sea level, become way too lean, if a person were to fly it at 10,000+ feet? If it is possible for this to happen (climb into a lean condition), at least there are gauges that may help them take a different tuning approach. Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:43 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring Oops! Didn't think that one through. Yeah=2C I guess they would get riche r. Duh. From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring I doubt you'll ever find an engine leaning out at altitude. Normally=2C th ey get richer because of less oxygen/air. john h mkIII Can a 2 cycle or 4 cycle motor=2C tuned at sea level=2C become way too l ean=2C if a person were to fly it at 10=2C000+ feet? If it is possible for this to happen (climb into a lean condition)=2C at least there are gauges that may help them take a different tuning approach. Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200 9 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:14 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Homer Kolb Folks: Thought Homer and Clara Kolb were going to be with us at MV this year, but alas, something has come up that takes precedence over MV. Homer will not be there. I told him how special it would be for our small MV group to have the previlege of spending some quality time with the man that is responsible for our sport. Hopefully, he will be able to make it next year. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:14 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring I knew what you meant. ;-) How is your mkIII coming along? Do you have someone lined up to teach you how to fly a mkIII? john h mkIII ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring Oops! Didn't think that one through. Yeah, I guess they would get richer. Duh. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:34 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring MkIII is coming along very well=2C thank you. The entire plane is painted=2C except for striping. I'm waiting to put on all the wing & hor. stabs.=2C before I get around to any decorative stripe s. All Lexan is cut and ready. Just waiting on brakes to get done=2C before I can even think of locking myself out of easy access to the front end. Doors are finished=2C painted=2C and Lexaned. Engine is mounted. Prop is remounted=2C and properly torqued the bolts. A ll miscellaneous thinks like radiator=2C intercooler=2C etc=2C mounts are m ade=2C items are secured in place. I may be a week or so away from firing up the motor. What's really weird is=2C I can almost see light at the end of the tunnel. After 10 years=2C I'm treading on new ground. Kind of neat to finally see an "almost airplane". No=2C I haven't got anyone lined up yet=2C for training. I talked to Jim K met last summer. I doubt I need much training=2C just an orientation type flight. I've got 700 hrs in Cessnas=2C and about 15 hours in dual ultralig ht trainers (QS MX II=2C and FlightStar). Youngest son is on his way home (right now). Heading to Gulf Shores=2C AL =2C next week. Visiting the grandkids. Mike Welch MkIII From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring I knew what you meant. =3B-) How is your mkIII coming along? Do you have someone lined up to teach you how to fly a mkIII? john h mkIII ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch Sent: Friday=2C March 20=2C 2009 8:01 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine monitoring Oops! Didn't think that one through. Yeah=2C I guess they would get riche r. Duh. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:36 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AirVenture 2009 From: "ces308" I should keep my mouth shut,but the UL-LSA just doesn't turn enough money for Uncle TOM for them to bother with us! I used to like and even belong to EAA,but since Uncle Tom took over it's turned into this GIANT money making machine / party for the rich and famous .Maybe we should start our own UL/LSA flyin ,invite the MFG's to come knowing there will be no charge for them to try and sell their wares and have an affordable weekend for all! Sorry.....just not fond of the King Tommys EAA chris ambrose m3x-jabiru Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235456#235456 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:53 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AirVenture 2009 > Maybe we should start our own UL/LSA flyin ,invite the MFG's to come knowing there will be no charge for them to try and sell their wares and have an affordable weekend for all! > > chris ambrose Chris/Gang: We have had an annual Kolb Flyin for the past 6 years. Next one is a couple months away. Beats anything EAA can put out at S&F or OSH. The price is right. Also the Kolb Homecoming is an annual and also beats anything anybody else can come up with. That puts one in the West and one in the East. Most of us are interested primarily in Kolbs because that is what we are building, flying, or wishing for. We tolerate "others" and find most of them pretty darn good folks too. They are my two favorite flyins, along with our annual flight to the Rock House in SE Oregon in conjuction with MV. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:02 PM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Off list - Hirth reputation. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: Date sent: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:34:18 -0400 From: possums Subject: Kolb-List: Off list - Hirth reputation. Send reply to: kolb-list@matronics.com > A lot of engines have the same problem. > Just between you and me and the fence post-- > Screw Hirth engines. Bill has tried them several times > over the last 12 years. Along with AMC engines and a few others. > > I've got way over what I should have on my 503 "1997 Rotax" engine without > a rebuild and it still runs like a Toyota. 450 hrs on my Hirth without problems. Guess I didn't listen to the fence post..... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 405. 426.5377 cell Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:13 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Off list - Hirth reputation. > 450 hrs on my Hirth without problems. Guess I didn't listen to the > fence post..... > > > Jim Baker That's great. May be a record. What airplane are you flying it with, Jim? And which one is it? I never got any where near that much time on one of my two strokes. Something would break or wear out, except the 582. It didn't have time to wear out. It simply seized. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:06 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AirVenture 2009 From: "ces308" This sounds really cool ! I wish I could make the MV tour,but there is no way..However,when is the Homecoming in Kentucky? I would sure like to plan on that one .... chris ambrose m3x-jabiru Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235470#235470 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:47 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AirVenture 2009 > This sounds really cool ! I wish I could make the MV tour,but there is no way..However,when is the Homecoming in Kentucky? I would sure like to plan on that one .... > > chris ambrose Last year it was held the third weekend of September. Have not heard if and when the Kolb Homecoming will be this year. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:42 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: AirVenture 2009 From: "ces308" Thanks John,I hope so...that would work great for me...anyone interested in coming up to northern Michigan ?? 5Y2 Houghton Lake State airport to be exact.... chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235474#235474 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.