Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Broken exhaust bracket (Jim Hauck)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Broken exhaust bracket (lucien)
3. 06:33 AM - Re: 100LL fuel additive (Thom Riddle)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: 100LL fuel additive (Thom Riddle)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: 100LL fuel additive (John Hauck)
6. 07:18 AM - Max Gross (david watkins)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: 100LL fuel additive (John Hauck)
8. 08:42 AM - Re: Max Gross (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
9. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: 100LL fuel additive (Richard Girard)
10. 09:53 AM - Re: Max Gross (Watkinsdw)
11. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: 100LL fuel additive (John Hauck)
12. 10:07 AM - Re: Max Gross (Richard Girard)
13. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Max Gross (John Hauck)
14. 10:21 AM - Muffler fix (Richard Girard)
15. 10:33 AM - MKIII Performance (John Hauck)
16. 11:04 AM - Re: MKIII Performance (Mike Welch)
17. 11:04 AM - Re: Muffler fix (Jim Hauck)
18. 11:15 AM - Re: MKIII Performance (John Hauck)
19. 11:15 AM - Re: Max Gross (Watkinsdw)
20. 11:45 AM - Re: MKIII Performance (lucien)
21. 11:52 AM - Re: Broken exhaust bracket (cristalclear13)
22. 01:02 PM - Re: Broken exhaust bracket (George Alexander)
23. 01:15 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL for sale (Watkinsdw)
24. 02:18 PM - Re: Muffler fix (robert bean)
25. 03:08 PM - Re: Broken exhaust bracket (Mike Welch)
26. 03:08 PM - Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (JetPilot)
27. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: 100LL fuel additive (Larry Cottrell)
28. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (Jim Baker)
29. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (Brad Stump)
30. 06:33 PM - Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (Beauford T)
31. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (Brad Stump)
32. 06:57 PM - Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (N111KX (Kip))
33. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (jerb)
34. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (Jim Baker)
35. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (Jim Baker)
36. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. (DAquaNut@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Broken exhaust bracket |
Good morning Cristal;
Yes, the rubber bushings should be on the muffler bracket and not on one
side of the muffler bracket and on half on the back side of the support
angle.
The cracked bracket could be contributed to the set up and also could just
be fair wear and tear from vibration.
I would suggest grinding the washer off the muffler bracket and welding an
1/8" thick plate the full length of the bracket where the washer is located
now. Just weld the sides of the muffler bracket, not across the top or
bottom as that will cause a stress point where the bracket bends.
Ha, you live to far away or I would weld it up for you.:)
Jim
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Subject: | Re: Broken exhaust bracket |
Ralph B wrote:
>
> 1) the reason it cracked is that you have the old style single-jointed muffler
with one set of 3 springs. These older mufflers are prone to cracking.
> Ralph B
This is a good point. These older style mufflers had only one point in the tubing
where they could flex. A common area of cracking on these is in an almost perfect
circle right at the seam where the main expansion tube goes into the can.
I had an eipper style one of these older mufflers on my quicksilver that gave this
exact circle-wise cracking in that area. Got a friend to TIG weld a new bead
around there which fixed it.
But you have to pay very close attention to the tension of the springs and the
muffler mounting with the old style. They can't be too tight to where they prevent
movement of the joint, a common installation problem. Anti-sieze on the parts
during assembly helps a bit as well.
But the new style with the seperate elbow is a lot better as it has 2 joints where
the whole works can move and better isolates the vibration of the motor from
the muffler.
The Kolb mounting design with the bracket bolted to the heads is actually very
secure and gives good support for the can (mine would hold the muffler can perfectly
in place even with no elbow installed yet) so repairing the bracket may
be all you need to do.
But if it keeps cracking, you might want to replace the muffler with the new style......
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235618#235618
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Subject: | Re: 100LL fuel additive |
I just visited the MMO website
http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/products/
and they have multiple products, or at least it seems that way. Which of these
are you MMO aficionados using? The first one listed on their site comes in 16
oz to 55 gallon sizes and they suggest using this one in gasoline and oil. The
2nd is for diesel. The 3rd listing is called Marvel Super Gas Treatment and it
shows only 12 oz containers.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235626#235626
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Subject: | Re: 100LL fuel additive |
The MMO FAQ has a lot of info pertinent to its use, including the following excerpts:
Can I use MMO in 2-cycle engines?
Yes, MMO is safe for use in 2-cycle engines. Replace 25% of the 2-cycle oil with
MMO. For example, if use 8oz of 2-cycle oil, replace 2oz of 2-cycle with 2oz
of MMO at oil change.
Can I use MMO for winter storage as a fuel stabilizer?
Yes, you can use MMO as a fuel stabilizer. Use 4ozs of Marvel for every 10 gallons
of fuel.
Can I use MMO in my air tools such as a nail gun?
Yes, you can use MMO in your air tools. However, we recommend you use Marvel Air
Tool oil for longer term use. The formulation of the Air Tool Oil is nearly
identical to the original MMO but also includes a heavy-duty corrosion inhibitor
to protect the tool in the high-moisture environment of air tools.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235630#235630
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Subject: | Re: 100LL fuel additive |
> and they have multiple products, or at least it seems that way. Which of
these are you MMO aficionados using? The first one listed on their site
comes in 16 oz to 55 gallon sizes and they suggest using this one in
gasoline and oil. The 2nd is for diesel. The 3rd listing is called Marvel
Super Gas Treatment and it shows only 12 oz containers.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
The one I use is the only one available at stores I frequent, the first one
listed for gas and diesel engines.
I believe it recommends one quart for 80 to 100 gals. That is normally the
ratio I mix, sometimes more than recommended. I am not too particular.
Never had a fouled plug or stuck valve in a 912 while using MMO.
In 1994, I flew 232 hours in 41 days with a 912UL. I did not use MMO.
About every 75 hours, operating on a steady diet of 100LL, at least one plug
will start fouling. Indication was a slight thumping/tapping felt in the
airframe. Really gets your attention when flying over inhospitable terrain.
I'd land at the next available airport, pull the plugs, clean them with my
knife and the wire on my spark plug gap gauge. Good for another 75 hours.
The 912 was being operated at 5,000 rpm cruise.
Don't have that problem with the 912ULS, normally. I did go through some
engine missing and power problems last year on my flight out West. I think
some of that was carb icing. Was flying with John W. His 912ULS was not
experiencing any problems. May have been a gremlin. Have not had that
problem since.
john h
mkIII
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Can anyone explain to me how the maximum gross weight is set for a MIII? I'm
told it's set by the builder, not Kolb.
Thanks,
Dave
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Subject: | Re: 100LL fuel additive |
> Can I use MMO in 2-cycle engines?
> Yes, MMO is safe for use in 2-cycle engines. Replace 25% of the 2-cycle
> oil with MMO. For example, if use 8oz of 2-cycle oil, replace 2oz of
> 2-cycle with 2oz of MMO at oil change.
> --------
> Thom Riddle
I would not replace two stroke oil with MMO, but add it in addition to the
recommended amount of two stroke oil.
Personal opinion and gut feeling only.
I use regular MMO in my air tools. Haven't worn one out yet.
john h
mkIII
Message 8
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Dave
The builder does set the maximum gross weight along with a bunch of
other stuff. The same regulations are there for original designs. The
Kolb MKIII has a factory recommended max gross weight of 1000 lbs. set
by a structural engineer. It was based on the design limits of the
standard airframe with some leeway for less than quality workmanship.
At least one of our group has increased the limit by making a bunch of
structural changes and has proven its strength. If you do quality work
and built the plane exactly like John H built his it would appear the
limit can be safely increased to 1200 lbs. If your not a structural
engineer any deviations from John's proven modifications could put the
airframe at risk at this higher limit. John is the test pilot of his
design modifications and continues to be.
Another way of answering the question would be to say you as the builder
can set the limit at 2,000 lbs and are killed in a crash you will not be
cited by the FAA for violating experimental regulations.
As always worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: david watkins
To: Kolb messages
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:18 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Max Gross
Can anyone explain to me how the maximum gross weight is set for a
MIII? I'm told it's set by the builder, not Kolb.
Thanks,
Dave
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: 100LL fuel additive |
Thom, I use the original MMO in the HKS in the gas only since HKS specs a
full synthetic oil and I don't want to mix.
Rick
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just visited the MMO website
>
> http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/products/
>
> and they have multiple products, or at least it seems that way. Which of
> these are you MMO aficionados using? The first one listed on their site
> comes in 16 oz to 55 gallon sizes and they suggest using this one in
> gasoline and oil. The 2nd is for diesel. The 3rd listing is called Marvel
> Super Gas Treatment and it shows only 12 oz containers.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
>
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
> simple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235626#235626
>
>
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Thanks, Rick.
I'm in the process of buying a 2001 MKIII powered by a 912s. The builder, who is
described as a very meticulous craftsman, has set the max gross at 1050#. I
can live with that, but since I weigh 190, and my partner 170, we'll have to carry
less than full fuel in the 20 gal. tank. The empty weight is 594#, probably
in part due to the 912s, and the BRS.
I'd heard about John's increase, and wondered how much flexibility I had, especially
since I fantasize about installing floats, down the road.
Are you there, John, and do you have any suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235657#235657
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Subject: | Re: 100LL fuel additive |
Ricks msg reminded me I probably should have indicated I do not use MMO
in the crankcase of the 912ULS. However, it might not be a bad idea to
add some just prior to oil change to help stir up and get more lead into
suspension.
On antique tractors, as soon as I get one, I put a quart of MMO in the
gas tank and another in the crankcase. I helps loosen up a lot of
sludge and crap from years of nondetergent oil. However, that ain't got
nothing to do with airplane engines. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Thom, I use the original MMO in the HKS in the gas only since HKS
specs a full synthetic oil and I don't want to mix.
Rick
Message 12
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Richard is right, you will set the max gross weight on the forms you will
file to get your experimental certificate. You may set it at whatever you
wish, however, to get your aircraft out of phase 1 testing you must
demonstrate and document the aircraft's performance at this weight.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM, david watkins
<david.watkins0@gmail.com>wrote:Can anyone explain to me how the
maximum gross weight is set for a
MIII? I'm told it's set by the builder, not Kolb.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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> I'd heard about John's increase, and wondered how much flexibility I had,
> especially since I fantasize about installing floats, down the road.
>
> Are you there, John, and do you have any suggestions?
I can't tell you what to do, but I, personally, would not hesitate to fly
this particular mkIII at more than the recommended 1,000 lbs gross weight.
As far as floats are concerned, I have no ideas and can not comment on them.
There are no major improvements on the fuselage of my mkIII from a standard
mkIII. Most of the changes Brother Jim made to my fuselage at the Kolb
Factory, were automatically incorporated in standard mkIII fuselages, little
things most folks don't know about. I guess the biggest change I made was
reinforcing the noses of all main ribs and the tails of the four outboard
main ribs, additional bracing on the bowtip and increased lateral bracing on
the leading edge of the wing.
Redesigning the main gear did nothing for increasing gross weight
capability.
Flight characteristics and capability don't change much with Homer's big
straight wings. They love to haul stuff!
The main reason I upgraded the wings was based primarily on the type flying
I knew my mkIII would be subjected to, and personal preference of the way I
like things to be in my airplane.
If anyone chooses to fly a Kolb aircraft over the recommended maximum gross
weight, it is their decision to do so, not mine. I don't recommend other
folks fly their Kolbs the way I fly mine.
john h
mkIII
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Cristal, Jim, what do you think of using silver solder to fix the crack.
Lower temperature, less stress. I haven't used it in this application, but
it seems reasonable. Brazing would be another option.Cristal, when doing the
fix, make sure the system isn't bound up in some way so that it has to be
forced into position to get everything hooked up. Make sure to use
anti-sieze compound on the ball joints so these are free to move as the
system expands and contracts. Replace the rubber dampers and use them on
both sides of the muffler attachment brackets.
I use the mounts you asked about on my 582, but has the three piece exhaust
system, hence more alignment options.
Rick
do not archive
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Subject: | MKIII Performance |
Got out and enjoyed an hour of wonderful last light flight yesterday.
Perfect day for flying. Spring is bursting out, air was clear and cool,
about 65F.
912ULS was turning 5,500 RPM WOT straight and level flight.
Climbed 1,500 FPM at 70 mph indicated, 5400 RPM.
Climbed 1,800 FPM at 50 mph indicated, 5300 RPM.
Floated halfway down Gantt International Airport in ground effect with 40
degrees of flaps. Demonstrated no threat of deadly Kolb Quit.
Had 10 gals fuel on board, solo.
john h
mkIII
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Subject: | MKIII Performance |
> Climbed 1=2C800 FPM at 50 mph indicated=2C 5300 RPM.
> john h
> mkIII
John=2C
Can't say I've ever heard of such climb out perfromance on a Kolb!! Must
have felt like an elevator!! 1800 FPM?!! Must have been a sight to watch
from the ground.
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99 SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
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Rick;
I would never use silver solder on that type of repair, unless I was
40,000 miles from no where and that was all I had. No again on brazing.
If a plate was welded up the way I suggested it will last a very long
time.
I do agree with you on making sure that there is no stress points from
misalignment of bolts and etc.
Jim H
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Subject: | Re: MKIII Performance |
Not bad for an old bird.
Those are "indicated speeds and climb rates". How accurate are they? I don't
have a clue, but probably pretty close, close enough for me.
I thought they all climbed like that with 912ULS.
John Bickham has a mkIII that climbs like that with a 912UL. I had a hard time
keeping up with him last year at the Nauga Flyin.
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235678#235678
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Thanks, John,
Your comments are accepted in the spirit in which they were offered-"information",
not "recommendation".
I appreciate your steering me to the Kolb in question.
I've been very impressed with the integrity of the the builder, and look forward
to flying the plane.
Finally, I look forward to learning more from you as time goes by.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235679#235679
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Subject: | Re: MKIII Performance |
John Hauck wrote:
> Not bad for an old bird.
>
> Those are "indicated speeds and climb rates". How accurate are they? I don't
have a clue, but probably pretty close, close enough for me.
>
> I thought they all climbed like that with 912ULS.
>
> John Bickham has a mkIII that climbs like that with a 912UL. I had a hard time
keeping up with him last year at the Nauga Flyin.
For what it's worth, my FSII would do around 900fpm sustained at sea level, which
was pretty good considering it had come out at a rather heavy 440lbs empty
weight for the original builder. Part of that was the C box with clutch he'd opted
for for the 3 blade warp drive prop. This had prompted the addition of 10lbs
of ballast to the nose to get the CG to come out right.
Even out here before I sold it it could do between 300 and 400 fpm climb. Again
pretty impressive given the 503 is about a 377 at this altitude.
The Kolb wing is definitely made for lifting.
As for the 912ULS, I think it's about the best you can do for a 100hp engine period.
The only other aircraft motor Rotax made that could beat it (and smoke it
too) was the 618 and (unfortunately IMO) it's not in production anymore. And
it couldn't do it for 2000 hours + either besides.
Since this is the Kolb forum I don't want to brag about other planes, but my 912ULS
gives me similar performance, I'll just say that.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235688#235688
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Subject: | Re: Broken exhaust bracket |
jimh474(at)embarqmail.com wrote:
> Yes, the rubber bushings should be on the muffler bracket and not on one
> side of the muffler bracket and on half on the back side of the support
> angle.
>
> Jim
I found what I think is the rubber bushings that was used originally. In the CPS
catalogue I found part numbers 9406 (male bushing) and 9408 (female bushing):
http://www.rotaxparts.net/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=838
However a friend mentioned that I should probably use barry mount isolators:
http://www.greenskyadventures.com/Installation_items/vibmntimages.htm
However it looks like there are various ones to choose from (according to the chart
at the bottom of that webpage). Has anyone used these and if so, which ones
(what series and color)?
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235691#235691
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Subject: | Re: Broken exhaust bracket |
cristalclear13 wrote:
>
>
> - - - snip- - -
>
> I know there aren't many of you out there that have a 503 anymore and probably
don't even have the same set up for the exhaust if you do have a 503, but if
you have something similar could you please post a picture and/or diagram?
>
> - - - snip- - -
>
>
Cristal:
Know you've gotten lots of input since the posting..... but here's a picture of
my set up on my FSII. (R503).
If you go with the recommended bushings from CPS, don't forget the backing washers.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235696#235696
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/503_muffler_mount_003_small_423.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL for sale |
Hey, George,
What kind of airplane are you putting the floats on? I'm fantasizing about the
same modification on a Kolb MKIII w/ 912s.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235698#235698
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There are different grades of silver solder. If the right one is
used it is as good as a weld.
Brazing has low strength and prone to cracking easily under flex.
There is a big difference between the two.
BB, lots of experience fabricating hi-vac ultra thin wall stainless
lab equipment with it.
The stuff I used cost big bucks and had to be bought from a specialty
manufacturer.
-But then the department of energy has deep pockets :)
On 22, Mar 2009, at 2:03 PM, Jim Hauck wrote:
> Rick;
>
> I would never use silver solder on that type of repair, unless I
> was 40,000 miles from no where and that was all I had. No again on
> brazing.
>
> If a plate was welded up the way I suggested it will last a very
> long time.
>
> I do agree with you on making sure that there is no stress points
> from misalignment of bolts and etc.
>
> Jim H
>
>
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Subject: | Broken exhaust bracket |
> I've also attached a picture of my exhaust with the mount with some lette
rs pointing to various places.
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
Cristal=2C
It seems to me Jim H. has suggested the best way to repair the bracket.
A TIG weld as he described should last a long time.
If you have the room on your support bracket=2C you might consider adding
a duplicate bracket=2C while the muffler is being welded=2C anyway.
By distributing the vibration load between 2 mounting locations=2C you ma
y not have a problem for a very long time.
Just an idea....
Mike Welch
MkIII
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Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
Its always possible to have good results with a bad engine, but that makes it an
exception. When choosing an engine, I would consider the record of the all
of the engines of that make and model, not ONE... I would never make an engine
choice based on just one exceptional case.
That being said, I have seen from many sources the same as posted earlier, Hearth
engines are horrible for reliability and don't last long. I would never use
one. From what Jim reports ,his experience is very good, but that does not
change the MANY with bad experiences with Hirth engines. Do your research before
deciding on an engine for an airplane !
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235713#235713
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: 100LL fuel additive |
Gang,
When I used it in my 503 I added it to the regular amount of two
stroke oil, My plugs showed no indication that it was getting too much
oil.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 100LL fuel additive
> Can I use MMO in 2-cycle engines?
> Yes, MMO is safe for use in 2-cycle engines. Replace 25% of the
2-cycle
> oil with MMO. For example, if use 8oz of 2-cycle oil, replace 2oz of
> 2-cycle with 2oz of MMO at oil change.
> --------
> Thom Riddle
I would not replace two stroke oil with MMO, but add it in addition to
the
recommended amount of two stroke oil.
Personal opinion and gut feeling only.
I use regular MMO in my air tools. Haven't worn one out yet.
john h
mkIII
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/21/09 17:58:00
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> When choosing an engine, I would
> consider the record of the all of the engines of that make and
> model, not ONE.
...and a great deal of grief can be heard from Rotax, Lycoming,
Continental, AMW, MZ, VW, , etc....Very seldom do we routinely and
continually hear about the successes, just the failures. "Hey, didja
hear that so-and-so made an entirely uneventful flight?"
> That being said, I have seen from many sources the same as posted
> earlier, Hearth engines are horrible for reliability and don't
> last long
I've also heard that Hearth engines suck..... ; )
. I would never use one. From what Jim reports ,his
> experience is very good, but that does not change the MANY with
> bad experiences with Hirth engines. Do your research before
> deciding on an engine for an airplane !
Absolutely, do your research. Consider the source, talk to owners,
don't just listen to detractors, get facts......
That said, I'm not an advocate for or against Hirth. All I know is
that my engine, appparently the only known success story for this
marque, has served me well, without problems. Were it not for Hirth
(or at least my model of Hirth), I'd most likely have a Rotax. Are
Hirth without problems? Nope. The 2706 was a problematic engine that
had several vices, none of them forgiving. Are there bad Hirth
engines? Some of the reputation is undeserved because Jim Bede
ordered a boat load of short block Hirth engines (without intake,
carbs, or exhaust) for the BD-5 and when that didn't pan out,
untested and incomplete engines were dumped on the market. Some can
still be obtained. Cobbled up two stroke engines, particularly with
unknown lineage exhaust systems, aren't pretty.
On the other side of this equation are owners, some of whom should
never own two stroke engines. They don't understand them, aren't
willing to learn how to make them happy, treat them like four
strokes, and just generally cause havoc through ignorance. As the
Bard once said,
Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to
heaven.
On that note......
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
405. 426.5377 cell
Elmore City, OK
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
I flew ultra lites for a lot of years with Cyuna engines,two engine outs,one right
after take-off,If not for my first flight instructor beating in my head emergency
procedures,it could have been a nasty outcome.All engine outs were from
cold seizure,The Hirth engine is suppost to be immune.As for longevity only
time will tell.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jlbaker@msbit.net
> Sent: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:56:30 -0500
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation.
>
>
> X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
>
>> When choosing an engine, I would
>> consider the record of the all of the engines of that make and
>> model, not ONE.
>
> ...and a great deal of grief can be heard from Rotax, Lycoming,
> Continental, AMW, MZ, VW, , etc....Very seldom do we routinely and
> continually hear about the successes, just the failures. "Hey, didja
> hear that so-and-so made an entirely uneventful flight?"
>
>> That being said, I have seen from many sources the same as posted
>> earlier, Hearth engines are horrible for reliability and don't
>> last long
>
> I've also heard that Hearth engines suck..... ; )
>
> . I would never use one. From what Jim reports ,his
>> experience is very good, but that does not change the MANY with
>> bad experiences with Hirth engines. Do your research before
>> deciding on an engine for an airplane !
>
> Absolutely, do your research. Consider the source, talk to owners,
> don't just listen to detractors, get facts......
>
>
> That said, I'm not an advocate for or against Hirth. All I know is
> that my engine, appparently the only known success story for this
> marque, has served me well, without problems. Were it not for Hirth
> (or at least my model of Hirth), I'd most likely have a Rotax. Are
> Hirth without problems? Nope. The 2706 was a problematic engine that
> had several vices, none of them forgiving. Are there bad Hirth
> engines? Some of the reputation is undeserved because Jim Bede
> ordered a boat load of short block Hirth engines (without intake,
> carbs, or exhaust) for the BD-5 and when that didn't pan out,
> untested and incomplete engines were dumped on the market. Some can
> still be obtained. Cobbled up two stroke engines, particularly with
> unknown lineage exhaust systems, aren't pretty.
>
> On the other side of this equation are owners, some of whom should
> never own two stroke engines. They don't understand them, aren't
> willing to learn how to make them happy, treat them like four
> strokes, and just generally cause havoc through ignorance. As the
> Bard once said,
>
> Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to
> heaven.
>
> On that note......
>
> Jim Baker
> 580.788.2779
> 405. 426.5377 cell
> Elmore City, OK
>
>
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
...well said, sir... but I betcha when knowledge straps in and cranks up for that
particular leg, it won't be behind a Rotax OR a Hirth 2 stroke.... ;-)
beauford,
FF-076
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven.
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
....Maybe because of Rotax or Hirth ect...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: beauford173@verizon.net
> Sent: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:32:58 -0400
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Off list - Hirth reputation.
>
>
> ...well said, sir... but I betcha when knowledge straps in and cranks up
> for that
> particular leg, it won't be behind a Rotax OR a Hirth 2 stroke.... ;-)
>
> beauford,
> FF-076
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
>
> Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven.
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
While I have flown behind a Hirth for 15 minutes or so and, it ran fine, I'd hate
to be a dealer that has to sell the "2000 hour TBO" I see in the ad's... [Rolling
Eyes]
--------
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235753#235753
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
Mike and all,
Some time back I had much the same opinion as you regarding
Hirths. My wing man went down twice - the second rebuild they
changed both the crank & the case. That seemed to cure the problem.
Matt at Recreational Power Engineering has made a lot of progress
with Hirth improving the quality of engine they turn out. Last I new
my friend has run it well over 400 hours and it's still going. The
new model engines appear to be much more reliable. There are some
advantages of running their lower RPM, higher torque engine, not as
noisy and better fuel economy.
jerb
At 05:08 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>Its always possible to have good results with a bad engine, but that
>makes it an exception. When choosing an engine, I would consider
>the record of the all of the engines of that make and model, not
>ONE... I would never make an engine choice based on just one exceptional case.
>
>That being said, I have seen from many sources the same as posted
>earlier, Hearth engines are horrible for reliability and don't last
>long. I would never use one. From what Jim reports ,his experience
>is very good, but that does not change the MANY with bad
>experiences with Hirth engines. Do your research before deciding on
>an engine for an airplane !
>
>Mike
>
>--------
>"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
>you could have !!!
>
>Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235713#235713
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
>All engine outs were from cold seizure,The
> Hirth engine is suppost to be immune.
If there were a consensus about what precicely constituites a cold
seizure, I might agree. As for immunity....perhaps better than an
iron sleeved cylinder that grows at a rate lower than the piston's
growth....but still subject to the vagaries of overly lean mixture
and lubrication film failure.
Shoot, Rotax said it best in their literature......
"This engine, by its design, is subject to sudden stoppage."
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
405. 426.5377 cell
Elmore City, OK
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> I'd hate to be a dealer that has to sell the "2000 hour TBO" I see in the ad's...
[Rolling Eyes]
I'm more than a bit skeptical, as well. Examples of 1200-1500 hrs
have been reported for other UL two stroke cranks, so perhaps the
margins are reachable....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
405. 426.5377 cell
Elmore City, OK
Message 36
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Subject: | Re: Off list - Hirth reputation. |
In a message dated 3/22/2009 10:09:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
jlbaker@msbit.net writes:
Shoot, Rotax said it best in their literature......
"This engine, by its design, is subject to sudden stoppage."
Jim,
I think that statement was made to cover their hind end. If
something happens to a Rotax you cant say they did not warn You! I have been
around Ultralights since the early 80.s I never met a happy Hirth owner! As
long as they have been around they should get it right. Hopefully the guy
that was flying at the New Kolb Homecoming is happy! His Hirth sound ed fairly
good from the ground
Ed Diebel FF 62
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