Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:27 AM - Re: Re: Flying videos thermals! (pj.ladd)
2. 03:47 AM - smooth flying (Ted Cowan)
3. 07:12 AM - Re: smooth flying (Ralph B)
4. 08:03 AM - Re: smooth flying (Richard Girard)
5. 08:50 AM - Re: smooth flying (lucien)
6. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: smooth flying (Mike Welch)
7. 10:23 AM - Re: AOA indicator (Mike Welch)
8. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: smooth flying (herb)
9. 10:44 AM - Re: AOA indicator (herb)
10. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: smooth flying (loseyf@comcast.net)
11. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: fuel flow meter ()
12. 01:09 PM - Re: Dates for M.V. (lucien)
13. 02:17 PM - Re: smooth flying (JetPilot)
14. 02:19 PM - Re: smooth flying (JetPilot)
15. 02:33 PM - Re: AOA indicator (russ kinne)
16. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: fuel flow meter (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
17. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: fuel flow meter (boyd)
18. 09:22 PM - Re: Re: fuel flow meter (jerb)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flying videos thermals! |
it is kind of funny to watch my wife enjoy fighting the turbulence >>
Hi,
I think the secret is NOT to fight the thermals. It doesn`t normally matter
if you are pushed up or down 50 feet, or tilted a bit, the next gust will
probably correct it to some extent. Provided of course that you are not
thrown in to a dangerous position. of course. Changes of airspeed on the ASI
are more likely to be caused by changes of pressure or direction in a gust
rather than an actual change in the planes speed. The inertia of the plane
just doesn`t change that fast and chasing the the airspeed through every
change can be pretty wearing.
As you approach a thermal the air gets a little bubbly, like champagne, and
then a wing lifts, and there is a little surge. You put the lifting wing
down and put in a bootfull of rudder, ease back on the stick to drop the
speed and begin to circle to find the strong lift in the middle of the
thermal and ...up you go.
At least that was the way it used be when I flew gliders. Now that I am
older and my stomach can no longer withstand roller coaster rides I fly
mornings or evenings. If I have to fly nearer mid day I stay away from
thermic sources like town roofs, ploughed fields, tarmac airfields. I watch
for buzzards circling and go the other way. I stay out from under milky
looking cumulus. I am just chicken...and I don`t care, I do this for fun and
being thrown around as if I was in a laundry machine just doesn`t qualify.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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Ok, after all of that stuff, I want to say this; if you want smooth flying
even in the afternoon, without the bad bumps, mind grinding tugs on the
stick to right yourself, the solution is easy: 'get a sling shot'. Easy as
that. I flew an original firestar for close to seven years and a lot of
hours. Flying to Florida to ride the coast line and just about every type
of thermal you can image and you know what, I got real tired yanking and
banking. Took hits that left me bruised and aching. Since I got the
Slingshot, I love flying even in the afternoon. This is the most forgiving
and capable flyer I have ever been in. I fly along side C150s and they are
rocking and rolling harder than I. What I get is more of a pivot back and
forth, left and right and a little pitch up and down but even the six and
eight hundred foot risers only show up on my instruments. It weighs in at
500 lbs dry (heavier than most) has a 912UL 80 hp (had a 582 gas guzzler)
and I couldnt be happier. Carrying a passenger is testy cause they have to
be small to get in and it really doesnt like the extra weight but I have
taken an 180 pounder up and it just requires a little more RPM to keep it
going. Lands just as smooth, just requires a hundred or more feet to get
up. So if you want smooth and zoom zoom, get a slingshot. Dont know about
the firefly cause it is too light. Hope I didnt bore you all. But -- if
you ever want the thrill of a lifetime, get to the Florida coast with us and
fly the beach, 80 miles down for a grouper sandwich, two hundred feet up,
two hundred feet off the beach, grand.
Something else, when I rebuilt my first ultrastar, I took some advise and
used stainless steel rivets. Some years later I got it back and had to
repair it and I learned a lesson. Stainless rivets are the worse things in
the world to drill out without overdrilling the holes. Been told by a Navy
aircraft repairman, very experienced, that we should not be using steel
rivets on alum. anyway. It is about dislike materials. But if you have to,
use steel because it will NOT tighten as much as stainless and possibly
weaken the holes as the mandrel is pulled. Stainless is actually too tight.
Take a sample of alum and test pull both and you will see the stainless
mandrel comes almost all the way through when you break it. There are other
problems with dislike materials also. My two cents worth. A properly
pulled steel rivet is better than an overpulled stainless. I want as much
meat around the mandrel ball as I can get. I am sure I will get heat from
this. Ted Cowan, Alabama
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
Ted, I notice the same thing in the Kolbra after many years flying the very light
Firestar. It's that extra wing loading that does the trick. There is a trade
off in everything, of course, and the Kolbra sink rate is much higher, especially
with a passenger.
Going flying today in Minnesota. Wow, the afternoon high will be 45! It's a heat
wave ...
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
22 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
1 year flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236639#236639
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
Ted, Thermals are just the Lord's way of passing out free altitude. Unless
you're in a situation that demands organized flying, slow down, turn and
watch the earth fall away.
Rick
do not archive
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Ted Cowan <tc1917@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Ok, after all of that stuff, I want to say this; if you want smooth flying
> even in the afternoon, without the bad bumps, mind grinding tugs on the
> stick to right yourself, the solution is easy: 'get a sling shot'. Easy as
> that. I flew an original firestar for close to seven years and a lot of
> hours. Flying to Florida to ride the coast line and just about every type
> of thermal you can image and you know what, I got real tired yanking and
> banking. Took hits that left me bruised and aching. Since I got the
> Slingshot, I love flying even in the afternoon. This is the most forgiving
> and capable flyer I have ever been in. I fly along side C150s and they are
> rocking and rolling harder than I. What I get is more of a pivot back and
> forth, left and right and a little pitch up and down but even the six and
> eight hundred foot risers only show up on my instruments. It weighs in at
> 500 lbs dry (heavier than most) has a 912UL 80 hp (had a 582 gas guzzler)
> and I couldnt be happier. Carrying a passenger is testy cause they have to
> be small to get in and it really doesnt like the extra weight but I have
> taken an 180 pounder up and it just requires a little more RPM to keep it
> going. Lands just as smooth, just requires a hundred or more feet to get
> up. So if you want smooth and zoom zoom, get a slingshot. Dont know about
> the firefly cause it is too light. Hope I didnt bore you all. But -- if
> you ever want the thrill of a lifetime, get to the Florida coast with us and
> fly the beach, 80 miles down for a grouper sandwich, two hundred feet up,
> two hundred feet off the beach, grand.
> Something else, when I rebuilt my first ultrastar, I took some advise and
> used stainless steel rivets. Some years later I got it back and had to
> repair it and I learned a lesson. Stainless rivets are the worse things in
> the world to drill out without overdrilling the holes. Been told by a Navy
> aircraft repairman, very experienced, that we should not be using steel
> rivets on alum. anyway. It is about dislike materials. But if you have to,
> use steel because it will NOT tighten as much as stainless and possibly
> weaken the holes as the mandrel is pulled. Stainless is actually too tight.
> Take a sample of alum and test pull both and you will see the stainless
> mandrel comes almost all the way through when you break it. There are other
> problems with dislike materials also. My two cents worth. A properly
> pulled steel rivet is better than an overpulled stainless. I want as much
> meat around the mandrel ball as I can get. I am sure I will get heat from
> this. Ted Cowan, Alabama
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
Ralph B wrote:
> Ted, I notice the same thing in the Kolbra after many years flying the very light
Firestar. It's that extra wing loading that does the trick. There is a trade
off in everything, of course, and the Kolbra sink rate is much higher, especially
with a passenger.
>
> Going flying today in Minnesota. Wow, the afternoon high will be 45! It's a heat
wave ...
>
> Ralph
Does TNK even still make the Kolba? Or is it a by-request-only kit build like the
FS?
I've lusted after the Kolbra forever (along with a billion other planes too I guess)...
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236664#236664
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
Lucien=2C
Yes=2C I believe TNK will sell you a Kolbra kit. You are correct=2C it i
s by request only. At least=2C this is what I remember from talking to Tra
vis a while back.
Hell=2C I guess they'd even sell you a Bell JetRanger=2C if you have the
money. : )
Mike Welch
sent from Gulf Shores=2C AL...here visiting youngest son=2C home from Afgha
nistan=2C and grandkids
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: smooth flying
> From: lstavenhagen@hotmail.com
> Date: Sun=2C 29 Mar 2009 08:50:14 -0700
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Ralph B wrote:
> > Ted=2C I notice the same thing in the Kolbra after many years flying th
e very light Firestar. It's that extra wing loading that does the trick. Th
ere is a trade off in everything=2C of course=2C and the Kolbra sink rate i
s much higher=2C especially with a passenger.
> >
> > Going flying today in Minnesota. Wow=2C the afternoon high will be 45!
It's a heat wave ...
> >
> > Ralph
>
>
> Does TNK even still make the Kolba? Or is it a by-request-only kit build
like the FS?
>
> I've lusted after the Kolbra forever (along with a billion other planes t
oo I guess)...
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236664#236664
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200
9
Message 7
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Boyd=2C
I don't believe I was advocating using an AOA. I simply stated some pilo
ts feel they are a better stall indicator. I also said I think the link wi
ll get more exposure on this site=2C which is true.
Whether someone sees the value of an AOA in a Kolb airplane is up to that
person=2C and their wants and desires. I'm not inclined to think it is to
o distracting=2C or too much workload=2C if a person had one. Can't say I
understand how an AOA "complicates" things=2C either.
For many (Kolb) pilots=2C an AOA is just not worth the effort=2C nor the
added information it may display. I can accept that.
I was just passing along a link=2C that's all.
Mike Welch
MkIII....which is looking less like a project=2C and more like an airplane
everyday.
From: by0ung@brigham.net
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: AOA indicator
Unless you are flying like a fighter pilot pulling high g levels and
possible getting yourself into accelerated stall. You don=92t
need angle of attack=85
Admittedly=2C=2C for a fighter pilot=2C it is still the
best=2C=2C
but for our type of flying=2C=2C=2C airspeed is good
indicator. Keep it simple=85 like one less
thing to have to worry about. And one less distraction =2C and less pilot w
ork
load.
Boyd Young
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kolb people=2C
A guy that makes these posted this link on a different group site.
I think it may get more exposure on this site=2C for those that are interes
ted.
Some pilots feel AOA is a better stall indicator than airspeed.
Here's the link:
http://www.pipcom.com/~cowcam/AOAr.htm
Mike Welch
MkIII
_________________________________________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Ex
plorer 8.
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
Heck of a deal on the factory MkIII extra
also... Cannot believe it has not sold!! Herb
At 12:11 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote:
>Lucien,
>
> Yes, I believe TNK will sell you a Kolbra
> kit. You are correct, it is by request
> only. At least, this is what I remember from talking to Travis a while
back.
>
> Hell, I guess they'd even sell you a Bell
> JetRanger, if you have the money. : )
>
>Mike Welch
>sent from Gulf Shores, AL...here visiting
>youngest son, home from Afghanistan, and grandkids
>
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: smooth flying
> > From: lstavenhagen@hotmail.com
> > Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 08:50:14 -0700
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Ralph B wrote:
> > > Ted, I notice the same thing in the Kolbra
> after many years flying the very light
> Firestar. It's that extra wing loading that
> does the trick. There is a trade off in
> everything, of course, and the Kolbra sink rate
> is much higher, especially with a passenger.
> > >
> > > Going flying today in Minnesota. Wow, the
> afternoon high will be 45! It's a heat wave ...
> > >
> > > Ralph
> >
> >
> > Does TNK even still make the Kolba? Or is it
> a by-request-only kit build like the FS?
> >
> > I've lusted after the Kolbra forever (along
> with a billion other planes too I guess)...
> >
> > LS
> >
> > --------
> > LS
> > Titan II SS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236664#236664
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>----------
>Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news
>travels really fast.
><http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_0320
09>Find
>out more.
Message 9
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Mike
I like the idea of a "Bacon Saver/Gear
saver) AOA indicator... I think something
similar is used in 150's ? hooked to a
big noise maker in the cockpit... :-) I turned
it on regularly...much to the consternation of my
asleep instructor...thought that was what it was for for a while....:-)
Simplicity?? I got that....a big red idiot
light ... attached to a Grand Rapids box however...:-) Herb
At 12:23 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote:
>Boyd,
>
> I don't believe I was advocating using an
> AOA. I simply stated some pilots feel they are
> a better stall indicator. I also said I think
> the link will get more exposure on this site, which is true.
>
> Whether someone sees the value of an AOA in a
> Kolb airplane is up to that person, and their
> wants and desires. I'm not inclined to think
> it is too distracting, or too much workload, if
> a person had one. Can't say I understand how
> an AOA "complicates" things, either.
>
> For many (Kolb) pilots, an AOA is just not
> worth the effort, nor the added information it may display. I can accept
that.
>I was just passing along a link, that's all.
>
>Mike Welch
>MkIII....which is looking less like a project,
>and more like an airplane everyday.
>
>
>----------
>From: by0ung@brigham.net
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kolb-List: AOA indicator
>Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:41:59 -0700
>
>Unless you are flying like a fighter pilot
>pulling high g levels and possible getting
>yourself into accelerated stall. You don=92t need angle of attack=85
>
>Admittedly,, for a fighter pilot, it is still the best,,
>
> but for our type of flying,,, airspeed is
> good indicator. Keep it simple=85 like one
> less thing to have to worry about. And one less
> distraction , and less pilot work load.
>
>
>Boyd Young
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Kolb people,
>
> A guy that makes these posted this link on a
> different group site. I think it may get more
> exposure on this site, for those that are interested.
> Some pilots feel AOA is a better stall
> indicator than airspeed. Here's the link:
>
><http://www.pipcom.com/%7Ecowcam/AOAr.htm>http://www.pipcom.com/~cowcam/AOA
r.htm
>
>Mike Welch
>MkIII
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>----------
>Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite
>MSN content with
><http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B03
7MSN55C0701A>Internet
>Explorer 8.
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
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| Subject: | Re: fuel flow meter |
Do any of the Kolb clan use a fuel flow meter? Would like one for my Mark IIIC.
Vic
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dates for M.V. |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Here's what was published 19 Dec 08:
>
> 2009 Unplanned/Unorganized Kolb Flyin Monument Valley 15,16,
> 17 May 2009.
>
> Those dates are the weekend between Mothers' Day and Memorial Day Weekend.
>
> Although the "official" dates are 15, 16, and 17 May 2009, most of us get
> there a day early on Thursday and depart Sunday morning (14-17 May 09).
>
> Frank, where are you going to be flying from?
>
> All are welcome. Hope we have a big crowd of Kolb enthusiast. If you
> aren't a Kolb enthusiast, you may become one if you hang around us too long.
>
> john h
> mkIII
Friend of mine from work plans to tag along in his RV-6A, if RV's are welcome too....
So that might be 2 titans and an RV from NM if everything goes right with
wx, vacations, etc.... well, we'll need a hefty head start but....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236717#236717
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
That is a very good flight report on the Slingshot, I am sure many people will
like the information as they lurk here wondering which Kolb they should build.
What part of the Florida coastline did you fly ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236727#236727
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: smooth flying |
P.S. The factory Kolb is about the best deal on a very nice Kolb that one will
ever find. I wish that was for sale when I bought mine. Just the parts alone
for that Kolb would cost more than they are asking for it, and its already built.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236729#236729
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: AOA indicator |
Guys
Isn't the Cessna "stall warning horn" really an AOA indicator? The
little metal tab sticking out of the leading edge gets pushed up by
the relative wind & sounds the horn, when the AOA is increased. (it's
just an opening in later models) Part of the preflight was to push it
up (Master on) and make sure it beeps. In a near-perfect 3-point
landing it would beep when you were a foot above the runway. It
simply said "slow down a little more and you'll stall". Good to know.
I found it very useful, but have been accused of wearing it out when
swordfish-spotting & whale-photographing. On all the time.
BTW, guys who fly long XC's may find this useful. My instructor used
to tell me to maintain a constant altitude -- this was good for
practice I suppose, because it needed constant control adjustments to
maintain a certain altitude.
But this is very inefficient. When you get an updraft, this procedure
makes you put the nose down and speed up, spending less time in a
favorable, lift-producing wind. And conversely, slow down in a
downdraft, spending MORE time in an unfavorable wind.
Much better (if airspace permits), to slow down in an updraft and
spend the maximum amount of time there, and speed up in a downdraft,
to get out of it ASAP. Within limits of course.
FWIW
Russ K
On Mar 29, 2009, at 1:43 PM, herb wrote:
> Mike
>
> I like the idea of a "Bacon Saver/Gear saver) AOA
> indicator... I think something similar is used in 150's ?
> hooked to a big noise maker in the cockpit... :-) I turned it on
> regularly...much to the consternation of my asleep
> instructor...thought that was what it was for for a while....:-)
>
>
> Simplicity?? I got that....a big red idiot light ...
> attached to a Grand Rapids box however...:-) Herb
>
>
> At 12:23 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote:
>> Boyd,
>>
>> I don't believe I was advocating using an AOA. I simply stated
>> some pilots feel they are a better stall indicator. I also said I
>> think the link will get more exposure on this site, which is true.
>>
>> Whether someone sees the value of an AOA in a Kolb airplane is
>> up to that person, and their wants and desires. I'm not inclined
>> to think it is too distracting, or too much workload, if a person
>> had one. Can't say I understand how an AOA "complicates" things,
>> either.
>>
>> For many (Kolb) pilots, an AOA is just not worth the effort, nor
>> the added information it may display. I can accept that.
>> I was just passing along a link, that's all.
>>
>> Mike Welch
>> MkIII....which is looking less like a project, and more like an
>> airplane everyday.
>>
>> From: by0ung@brigham.net
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: AOA indicator
>> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:41:59 -0700
>>
>> Unless you are flying like a fighter pilot pulling high g levels
>> and possible getting yourself into accelerated stall. You don=92t
>> need angle of attack=85
>>
>> Admittedly,, for a fighter pilot, it is still the best,,
>>
>> but for our type of flying,,, airspeed is good indicator.
>> Keep it simple=85 like one less thing to have to worry about. And
>> one less distraction , and less pilot work load.
>>
>>
>>
>> Boyd Young
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>> Kolb people,
>>
>> A guy that makes these posted this link on a different group
>> site. I think it may get more exposure on this site, for those
>> that are interested.
>> Some pilots feel AOA is a better stall indicator than airspeed.
>> Here's the link:
>>
>> http://www.pipcom.com/~cowcam/AOAr.htm
>>
>> Mike Welch
>> MkIII
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with
>> Internet Explorer 8.
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: fuel flow meter |
I useed a Fuel flow meter in my firestar and I will install one in my
MK3Xtra also I got it from Boaters World
Ellery in Maine
Building MK3Xtra
In a message dated 3/29/2009 3:08:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
apilot@surewest.net writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <apilot@surewest.net>
Do any of the Kolb clan use a fuel flow meter? Would like one for my Mark
IIIC. Vic
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps! (http://pr
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: fuel flow meter |
Do any of the Kolb clan use a fuel flow meter? Would like one for my Mark
IIIC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I hooked an aux input for the EIS to a fuel sender. it reads fuel level on
the EIS to tenths of gallons, I check the starting point from a glance in
the tank to see it is near where I think it should be. On a x country I
burn 4 gal per hour.. and can cross check the level on the EIS to the
expected fuel burn and the flight timer. If the fuel in the tank gets below
3 gal indicated it lights up the master warning light. That is my limit
for reserve.
Boyd
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: fuel flow meter |
Got one on my Hawk. I have the fuel flow option on my Grand Rapids
Technologies EIS - so far for several years it been accurate and
worked. It has provided some interesting data related to prop pitch
relative to performance (climb/cruise), and fuel consumption rate.
jerb
At 03:07 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote:
>
>Do any of the Kolb clan use a fuel flow meter? Would like one for
>my Mark IIIC. Vic
>
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