Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:56 AM - Re: Destroying a Kolb (william sullivan)
2. 03:10 AM - Re: Destroying a Kolb (william sullivan)
3. 03:57 AM - Re: Re: Destroying a Kolb (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
4. 04:33 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Thom Riddle)
5. 05:42 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Eugene Zimmerman)
6. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Mike Welch)
7. 05:49 AM - Re: Destroying a Kolb (N111KX (Kip))
8. 06:06 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (russ kinne)
9. 06:13 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (Gray, Mark)
10. 06:19 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (clrprop)
11. 06:41 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (Mike Welch)
12. 07:08 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (robert bean)
13. 07:08 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (russ kinne)
14. 07:20 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (herb)
15. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (George Myers)
16. 08:06 AM - Hold Harmless Release Form (Mike Welch)
17. 08:26 AM - lawyers (Mike Welch)
18. 08:50 AM - Re: lawyers (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
19. 10:07 AM - Re: lawyers (Dana Hague)
20. 10:24 AM - Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... (Nick Cassara)
21. 10:39 AM - Re: Hold Harmless Release Form (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net)
22. 10:48 AM - Re: lawyers (Mike Welch)
23. 11:55 AM - Re: Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... (robert bean)
24. 12:02 PM - Re: fuel flow meter (planecrazzzy)
25. 12:03 PM - 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
26. 12:03 PM - Re: lawyers (Jim ODay)
27. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: lawyers (Mike Welch)
28. 01:47 PM - Re: lawyers (grantr)
29. 02:25 PM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
30. 03:17 PM - Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (zeprep251@aol.com)
31. 04:16 PM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? Lawyers-lawsuits (Jon LaVasseur)
32. 04:25 PM - Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (lucien)
33. 05:36 PM - Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (JetPilot)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Destroying a Kolb |
- Ellery- I am really digging in the old memory, but I seem to remember t
hat there is something called a "Hold Harmless" agreement in the UCC (Unifo
rm Commercial Code).
- In the equipment business, we used to use UCC Forms 1 and 2 a lot, whic
h were for partial title of objects- like a truck with a crane on it, and t
wo suppliers involved.- Kind of a way to make sure everybody got paid.-
Reassure the guy that this question is a common worry, and can be resolved
.- Have him see a lawyer!- It would be a lot cheaper than destroying it
.-
-
-------------------------
------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct
.
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Subject: | Re: Destroying a Kolb |
Ellery- I just had another thought.- Have him take the wings off, and sel
l it as parts- "Not an airworthy vehicle".- I understand it's commonly do
ne with 103's for liability reasons.
-
-------------------------
------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct
.
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Subject: | Re: Destroying a Kolb |
The guy said he has already talked to a lawyer Im guessing the wrong one
first
Ellery in Maine
In a message dated 3/31/2009 4:57:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
Ellery- I am really digging in the old memory, but I seem to remember that
there is something called a "Hold Harmless" agreement in the UCC (Uniform
Commercial Code).
In the equipment business, we used to use UCC Forms 1 and 2 a lot, which
were for partial title of objects- like a truck with a crane on it, and two
suppliers involved. Kind of a way to make sure everybody got paid. Reassure
the guy that this question is a common worry, and can be resolved. Have him
see a lawyer! It would be a lot cheaper than destroying it.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? |
Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not be flying.
Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition to BB's advice
to see a lawyer, perhaps he should see a shrink too.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? |
On Mar 30, 2009, at 8:41 PM, ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote:
> is there a way to save this from happening so the guy won't be
> liable for the plane ever ?
The only way I know of is to sue him for all he has, including his
kolb, for threatening to take the life of his Mk3xtra . <grin>
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? |
Ellery=2C
I agree with the comments so far. Thom especially described this guy.
It's just amazing the number of anal people there are! First of all=2C t
his guy's concerns can be covered by a simple hold-harmless release form.
Secondly=2C it is damn near impossible for a private citizen to be sued by
another private citizen from a different state. (costs are the biggest reas
on=2C jurisdiction is the next=2C practicality=2C etc. The scope of the tr
ial would have to be in the millions for anyone to get an attorney that wou
ld accept the case{and
he/she wouldn't take the case without a prepaid cash retainer=2C a BIG reta
iner})
In the course of 30 minutes=2C this guy could generate a form to be safe
from litigation. Included in the form could be:
1) plane sold as parts only=2C assembly at your own risk!
2) flying is dangerous=2C operate at your own risk
3) if this aircraft is put into service=2C it must be inspected by an FAA
licensed A & P=2C and properly registered with the FAA as a Experimental Ca
tegory Aircraft=2C prior to use
4) do not operate this aircraft without completing proper licensed flight
instruction first=2C and be signed off by a CFI
I'm not an attorney=2C but I play one on TV. Actually=2C sad to say=2C I
have sued many people=2C and been sued once=2C so I do know my way around
the courthouse. I wish that weren't true!
I have also testified as an "expert witness" on behalf of the state about
25 times.
If this guy is truly considering destroying his plane=2C because of fear
of litigation=2C he shouldn't built it in the first place. He would be bet
ter off living in a cave. Tell him to get a release form and relax!!!
Just my thoughts.....
Mike Welch
MkIII
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?
> From: riddletr@gmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 31 Mar 2009 04:32:37 -0700
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not
be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition
to BB's advice to see a lawyer=2C perhaps he should see a shrink too.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo=2C NY
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
>
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a si
mple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: | Re: Destroying a Kolb |
Donating to a museum sounds like a better option to me...
--------
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237002#237002
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? |
Ellery
Hold-harmless releases are quite common, and very good if properly
written
But I doubt if selling it as unassembled parts would totally protect
him. He'd still need a H-H release
And maybe sad to say, but he needs a lawyer. They often do keep
people out of trouble
Russ K
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Subject: | Re: Destroying a KOLB ? |
I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that I will be getting rid of o
nce the new bird is finished.
I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and don't w
ant to go thru that again, just the lawyer cost will be more than I can sel
l it for.
I hope to see something positive come from this discussion.
Do Not Archive
Mark Gray
N229K
________________________________
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? |
I know someone that did this. I think it was a Baby Ace. He destroyed the engine
as well. It shocked me to hear about it.
He was worried about liability as the builder even from third or fourth owners
if it was resold.
I guess no disclaimer can keep them from suing you. Even if you win, it might bankrupt
you fighting it. He opted for the peace of mind. Can't say I would do
the same.
Keath T
MKIII C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237008#237008
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Subject: | Destroying a KOLB ? |
Mark=2C
Hello. Haven't heard from you before. Hi.
Talking to an attorney can be just as useless as talking some guy on the
corner. I said "CAN BE"!! It depends on the attorney. They are as differ
ent as any other class of people. There are some good ones=2C and there ar
e some worthless ones. The problem is=2C they don't admit to being worthle
ss=2C but they will still take your money. Trust me on this one!!
In the course of being self-employed for more than 35 years=2C I hate to
confess that I have had to deal with the legal system. Makes me sick=2C to
be honest. However=2C I have read the law books for my own research=2C es
pecially regarding product liability=2C mechantability=2C intended-uses=2C
and in some cases=2C responsibility.
Hell=2C just because I like to hear myself think=2C I'll throw together a
quick Hold-Harmless release form this evening. It isn't rocket science to
sell an airplane=2C for Pete's sake!!
Now=2C for those inclined to argue with me=2C let me make sure I point ou
t I am talking about PRIVATE citizens selling to other private citizens. A
n airplane manufacturer is a different story. But=2C even they cover their
ass with a simple release form. Have some of the maufacturers been sued?
Yes! But=2C that's because some lowlife attorney knew the manufacturer ha
d insurance or assets to seize (read that big $$$).
Mike Welch
suedo know-it-all
From: Mark.Gray@Takata.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ?
I am in the same boat=2C I have a Firestar II that I will be getting rid of
once the new bird is finished.
I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and don=92t
want to go thru that again=2C just the lawyer cost will be more than I can
sell it for.
I hope to see something positive come from this discussion.
Do Not Archive
Mark Gray
N229K
The information in this email and attachments hereto may contain legally pr
ivileged=2C proprietary or confidential information that is intended for a
particular recipient. If you are not the intended recipient(s)=2C or the em
ployee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended re
cipient(s)=2C you are hereby notified that any disclosure=2C copying=2C dis
tribution=2C retention or use of the contents of this e-mail information is
prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers or vend
ors=2C any information contained in this e-mail is subject to the terms and
conditions in the governing contract=2C if applicable. If you have receive
d this communication in error=2C please immediately notify us by return e-m
ail=2C permanently delete any electronic copies of this communication and d
estroy any paper copies.
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Subject: | Re: Destroying a KOLB ? |
Keep it until you are dead. Let someone else sort it out.
If you are listed as the manufacturer you are liable to the end.
Once the
"company" has gone bankrupt the lawyers lose interest.
BB
On 31, Mar 2009, at 9:12 AM, Gray, Mark wrote:
> I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that I will be getting
> rid of once the new bird is finished.
> I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and
> don=92t want to go thru that again, just the lawyer cost will be more
> than I can sell it for.
> I hope to see something positive come from this discussion.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Mark Gray
> N229K
>
> The information in this email and attachments hereto may contain
> legally privileged, proprietary or confidential information that is
> intended for a particular recipient. If you are not the intended
> recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of
> this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified
> that any disclosure, copying, distribution, retention or use of the
> contents of this e-mail information is prohibited and may be
> unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers or vendors, any
> information contained in this e-mail is subject to the terms and
> conditions in the governing contract, if applicable. If you have
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify us
> by return e-mail, permanently delete any electronic copies of this
> communication and destroy any paper copies.
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Destroying a KOLB ? |
Mike
Thanx for your input.
It's a sorry state of affairs when we have to have a lawyer in our
pockets all the time, but there it is.
I've been self-employed for 50 years, and luckily have never been
sued. They've tried, but I have METICULOUS paper records (tho I hate
paperwork) and was able to fend them off.
But as you point out, even if you win, defending yourself will cost
you a big bundle. We SHOULD make the loser pay all costs; this would
eliminate thousands of frivolous cases. Maybe Obama will do this for
us when he gets time.
But a good, properly-written HH release should hold. Could you share
the one you write with us?
Lawyers usually go after the deepest pockets they can find, but lots
of them have little to do these days & may tackle most anything.
FWIW
Russ K
On Mar 31, 2009, at 9:40 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Hello. Haven't heard from you before. Hi.
>
> Talking to an attorney can be just as useless as talking some guy
> on the corner. I said "CAN BE"!! It depends on the attorney.
> They are as different as any other class of people. There are some
> good ones, and there are some worthless ones. The problem is, they
> don't admit to being worthless, but they will still take your
> money. Trust me on this one!!
>
> In the course of being self-employed for more than 35 years, I
> hate to confess that I have had to deal with the legal system.
> Makes me sick, to be honest. However, I have read the law books
> for my own research, especially regarding product liability,
> mechantability, intended-uses, and in some cases, responsibility.
>
> Hell, just because I like to hear myself think, I'll throw
> together a quick Hold-Harmless release form this evening. It isn't
> rocket science to sell an airplane, for Pete's sake!!
>
> Now, for those inclined to argue with me, let me make sure I
> point out I am talking about PRIVATE citizens selling to other
> private citizens. An airplane manufacturer is a different story.
> But, even they cover their ass with a simple release form. Have
> some of the maufacturers been sued? Yes! But, that's because some
> lowlife attorney knew the manufacturer had insurance or assets to
> seize (read that big $$$).
>
> Mike Welch
> suedo know-it-all
>
> From: Mark.Gray@Takata.com
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:12:47 -0400
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ?
>
> I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that I will be getting
> rid of once the new bird is finished.
> I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and
> don=92t want to go thru that again, just the lawyer cost will be more
> than I can sell it for.
> I hope to see something positive come from this discussion.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Mark Gray
> N229K
>
> The information in this email and attachments hereto may contain
> legally privileged, proprietary or confidential information that is
> intended for a particular recipient. If you are not the intended
> recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of
> this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified
> that any disclosure, copying, distribution, retention or use of the
> contents of this e-mail information is prohibited and may be
> unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers or vendors, any
> information contained in this e-mail is subject to the terms and
> conditions in the governing contract, if applicable. If you have
> received this communication in error, please immediately notify us
> by return e-mail, permanently delete any electronic copies of this
> communication and destroy any paper copies.
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
> Find out more.
>
>
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Subject: | Destroying a KOLB ? |
Mike
Before you pen this Hold Harmless...Check the
EAA site...They likely have a pretty good one...
as my Cousin "the Judge" said...and my cousin
"the lawyer" said.... The law ain't necessarily
fair ; its just the law...!!
Herb
At 08:40 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
> Hello. Haven't heard from you before. Hi.
>
> Talking to an attorney can be just as useless
> as talking some guy on the corner. I said "CAN
> BE"!! It depends on the attorney. They are as
> different as any other class of people. There
> are some good ones, and there are some
> worthless ones. The problem is, they don't
> admit to being worthless, but they will still
> take your money. Trust me on this one!!
>
> In the course of being self-employed for more
> than 35 years, I hate to confess that I have
> had to deal with the legal system. Makes me
> sick, to be honest. However, I have read the
> law books for my own research, especially
> regarding product liability, mechantability,
> intended-uses, and in some cases, responsibility.
>
> Hell, just because I like to hear myself
> think, I'll throw together a quick
> Hold-Harmless release form this evening. It
> isn't rocket science to sell an airplane, for Pete's sake!!
>
> Now, for those inclined to argue with me, let
> me make sure I point out I am talking about
> PRIVATE citizens selling to other private
> citizens. An airplane manufacturer is a
> different story. But, even they cover their
> ass with a simple release form. Have some of
> the maufacturers been sued? Yes! But, that's
> because some lowlife attorney knew the
> manufacturer had insurance or assets to seize (read that big $$$).
>
>Mike Welch
>suedo know-it-all
>
>
>----------
>From: Mark.Gray@Takata.com
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:12:47 -0400
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ?
>
>I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that
>I will be getting rid of once the new bird is finished.
>
>I have already been on the receiving end of a
>frivolous lawsuit and don=92t want to go thru that
>again, just the lawyer cost will be more than I can sell it for.
>
>I hope to see something positive come from this discussion.
>
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>Mark Gray
>
>N229K
>
>
>----------
>The information in this email and attachments
>hereto may contain legally privileged,
>proprietary or confidential information that is
>intended for a particular recipient. If you are
>not the intended recipient(s), or the employee
>or agent responsible for delivery of this
>message to the intended recipient(s), you are
>hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
>distribution, retention or use of the contents
>of this e-mail information is prohibited and may
>be unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers
>or vendors, any information contained in this
>e-mail is subject to the terms and conditions in
>the governing contract, if applicable. If you
>have received this communication in error,
>please immediately notify us by return e-mail,
>permanently delete any electronic copies of this
>communication and destroy any paper copies.
>
>
>ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>ronics.com
>ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>----------
>Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news
>travels really fast.
><http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_0320
09>Find
>out more.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? |
As a blue collar comedian once said "You kaint' fix stoopid".
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Welch
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:49 AM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?
Ellery,
I agree with the comments so far. Thom especially described this guy.
It's just amazing the number of anal people there are! First of all, this
guy's concerns can be covered by a simple hold-harmless release form.
Secondly, it is damn near impossible for a private citizen to be sued by
another private citizen from a different state. (costs are the biggest
reason, jurisdiction is the next, practicality, etc. The scope of the trial
would have to be in the millions for anyone to get an attorney that would
accept the case{and
he/she wouldn't take the case without a prepaid cash retainer, a BIG
retainer})
In the course of 30 minutes, this guy could generate a form to be safe
from litigation. Included in the form could be:
1) plane sold as parts only, assembly at your own risk!
2) flying is dangerous, operate at your own risk
3) if this aircraft is put into service, it must be inspected by an FAA
licensed A & P, and properly registered with the FAA as a Experimental
Category Aircraft, prior to use
4) do not operate this aircraft without completing proper licensed flight
instruction first, and be signed off by a CFI
I'm not an attorney, but I play one on TV. Actually, sad to say, I have
sued many people, and been sued once, so I do know my way around the
courthouse. I wish that weren't true!
I have also testified as an "expert witness" on behalf of the state about
25 times.
If this guy is truly considering destroying his plane, because of fear of
litigation, he shouldn't built it in the first place. He would be better
off living in a cave. Tell him to get a release form and relax!!!
Just my thoughts.....
Mike Welch
MkIII
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?
> From: riddletr@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 04:32:37 -0700
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not
be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition
to BB's advice to see a lawyer, perhaps he should see a shrink too.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
>
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
simple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993
>
>= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
&g==
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>
>
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Subject: | Hold Harmless Release Form |
Hold Harmless Release Form
To whom it may concern:
I=2C(Seller)____________________=2C sell the following aircraft=2C (or pa
rts=2C or whatever)=2C to (Buyer)________________________=2C on this date__
_________.
Prior to agreeing to the purchase of this aircraft (or parts=2C etc)=2C t
he Buyer is advised of the following=2C and accepts ALL risks contained the
rein:
This aircraft=2C (or parts=2C etc) is sold with the thorough understandin
g it composed of NON-CERTIFIED parts=2C that is=2C parts that the FAA has n
ot deemed suitable for aircraft construction.
Such parts may include=2C but not be limited to=2C hardware store bolts and
fittings=2C home-made
items and other types of brackets and fasteners=2C that are used to constru
ct this aircraft.
This aircraft=2C (or parts=2C etc.) does NOT comply with any Federal qual
ity requirements=2C for use as a certified aircraft=2C and any use of this
aircraft (or parts=2C etc) is at the expressed acknowledgement of the Buyer
that he accepts all risks involved. buyer's initials________
Buyer further understands and agrees that building an aircraft has many u
nforeseen risks. These risks may include=2C but are not limited to=2C airc
raft parts longevity=2C allowable tolerances=2C parts used for manufacturer
's non-intended uses=2C undersized fasteners=2C (which may include=2C but a
re not limited to=3B nuts=2C bolts=2C cables=2C screws=2C rivets=2C fabric
=2C paint=2C tubing=2C etc.)
Buyer fully understands and accepts that this aircraft (or parts=2C etc)
is not manufactured=2C nor tested=2C by ANY qualifying entity=2C either fed
eral or private. Buyer accepts the responsibility that he will thoroughly
inspect=2C repair=2C create=2C or otherwise bring this aircraft (or parts
=2C etc) up to a FULLY flyable=2C fully dependable=2C fully capable aircraf
t=2C prior to it's intended use.
Buyer's
initials_________
Buyer also acknowledges that ALL aircraft in the USA are regulated by the
FAA (Federal Aviation Authority). The buyer will license=2C have inspecte
d=2C and maintain this aircraft to ALL legal requirements of ALL controllin
g agencies=2C including=2C but not limited to=2C federal=2C state=2C and lo
cal requirements and laws.
Buyer is to have this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) inspected by a competent
=2C fully licensed FAA "A & P mechanic"=2C with the powers necessary to sta
te whether this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) is safe=2C flyable=2C and comple
tely authorized for it's intended uses. Buyer is NOT to operate=2C use=2C
or put into service=2C said aircraft (or parts=2C etc) without such inspect
ion and approval by such authorized inspector.
It is also completely understood by Buyer=2C that Seller has no control w
hatsoever of the completed construction=2C maintenance=2C modification=2C a
lteration=2C change of design=2C use=2C or any other method where Buyer can
deviate from what Seller created=2C built or assembled. Seller does NOT c
ontrol what Buyer does! Buyer's initials_____________
Buyer agrees to fully comply with ALL laws=2C rules=2C guidelines=2C etc.
of all governing entities=2C with regard to building=2C repairing=2C flyin
g=2C maintaining=2C and using this aircraft (or parts=2C etc)
Any failure of Buyer to act in ANY unlawful=2C unauthorized=2C illegal=2C o
r otherwise prohibited fashion=2C is solely the fault and actions of the Bu
yer. Buyer's initials_____________
Lastly=2C Buyer understands and accepts it is his=2C and ONLY his=2C resp
onsibility to see that this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) is/are trustworthy
=2C and will safely perform as expected. Seller has no
ability to control Buyer's further actions=2C in any regard=2C with referen
ce to this transaction.
Sellers liability ends with this sale=2C and any future action by Buyer is
at Buyer's expense=2C both monetarily and physically.
Seller______________________________________ Date_____________________
Buyer______________________________________ Date_____________________
Notary Public________________________________ Date_____________________
Seal______________________________
_________________________________________________________________
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Kolb people=2C
I threw that together in the course of an hour and a half. I'd love to s
ee someone try to sue me=2C after signing this. I wouldn't need a lawyer.
I'd send a copy registered mail to their attorney=2C after I was notified
I was being sued.
Their attorney would ask for more "retainer" and then advise them "YOU DI
DN'T TELL ME THIS!!!!" "Am I supposed to go into court and tell the judge
=2C oops=2C we forgot this??!!"
Any single one of the items breached in the contract/hold harmless agreem
ent=2C breaches the whole thing.
Maybe because I've been through the process=2C and have had to deal with
so many scumbag attorneys (redundant=2C I know) that I am not hung up on th
is stuff. If you don't know anything else=2C you've GOT to know this!!!!
Attorneys don't do a damn thing unless they make the big bucks. And seeing
their clients notarized signature on my HH Form wouldn't look too promisin
g.
Yes=2C the EAA probably does have a HH form=2C but I didn't look.
Mike Welch
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Mike
When the widow is standing in court crying with her six kids the jury
tends to overlook any hold harmless form. Your right about the money
thing. If you still have a big TARP bonus check, deep pockets, or
airplane liability insurance you will be a target. For the rest of us it
isn't worth the lawyers time.
I personally like the statement in the hold harmless that states that
this airplane is guaranteed to kill.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: lawyers
Kolb people,
I threw that together in the course of an hour and a half. I'd love
to see someone try to sue me, after signing this. I wouldn't need a
lawyer. I'd send a copy registered mail to their attorney, after I was
notified I was being sued.
Their attorney would ask for more "retainer" and then advise them
"YOU DIDN'T TELL ME THIS!!!!" "Am I supposed to go into court and tell
the judge, oops, we forgot this??!!"
Any single one of the items breached in the contract/hold harmless
agreement, breaches the whole thing.
Maybe because I've been through the process, and have had to deal
with so many scumbag attorneys (redundant, I know) that I am not hung up
on this stuff. If you don't know anything else, you've GOT to know
this!!!! Attorneys don't do a damn thing unless they make the big
bucks. And seeing their clients notarized signature on my HH Form
wouldn't look too promising.
Yes, the EAA probably does have a HH form, but I didn't look.
Mike Welch
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From what I understand, well written hold harmless agreements can be
effective in preventing the person who signed it from bringing legal action
against you, but it's not binding on his heirs, even if there is verbage to
that effect on the paper... IOW if he crashes and dies you can still be
sued by his wife and/or kids. However, I've also read that including a
stipulation in the agreement that any disputes be settled by binding
arbitration rather than the courts IS binding on the heirs... and
arbitration by a group of people knowledgeable in the aviation world would
likely go much better for the seller than a jury of people who've never
seen an airplane smaller than a 737/
-Dana
--
But it's NOT an ASSAULT Weapon, it's a DEFENSE weapon!
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Subject: | Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... |
Hello John H and Kolber's
I am going to follow John's lead and put a larger tail wheel on my Kolbra. I
am looking at the Maule SFS-P8A in Aircraft Spruce. Since I have yet to
build my tail, I am wondering if there is any need for, or recommendations
of structural changes to the lower vertical Stabilizer.
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
20*F.No volcanic ash falling today!!
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Subject: | Re: Hold Harmless Release Form |
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Rick=2C
This widow=2C who has six kids=2C is the same one who's husband spent all
of their money on home-built airplanes=2C isn't she??
In truth=2C not very many lawsuits of this scope go to trial. They usual
ly are decided by a judge=2C or mediated=2C or arbitrated. Remember=2C we'
re not talking Cessna=2C or Cirrus=2C just Billy Bob.
All the barstool legal advice (from me and others) doesn't diminish a tho
rough HH Agreement. NOT everything in this world is someone else's (previo
us) fault!! Sometimes=2C believe it or not=2C it is the guy that flew the
plane's fault. I still maintain that if this guy's lawyer got his mitts on
your copy of the HH Agreement=2C signed and notorized by his client=2C the
re just isn't going to be much further legal action. When there is no payd
ay for the bloodsucker=2C they move on ambulance chasing=2C and asbestos cl
aims.
Mike Welch
From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: lawyers
Mike
When the widow is standing in court crying with her six kids the jury tends
to overlook any hold harmless form. Your right about the money thing. If y
ou still have a big TARP bonus check=2C deep pockets=2C or airplane liabili
ty insurance you will be a target. For the rest of us it isn't worth the la
wyers time.
I personally like the statement in the hold harmless that states that this
airplane is guaranteed to kill.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Tuesday=2C March 31=2C 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: lawyers
Kolb people=2C
I threw that together in the course of an hour and a half. I'd love to s
ee someone try to sue me=2C after signing this. I wouldn't need a lawyer.
I'd send a copy registered mail to their attorney=2C after I was notified
I was being sued.
Their attorney would ask for more "retainer" and then advise them "YOU DI
DN'T TELL ME THIS!!!!" "Am I supposed to go into court and tell the judge
=2C oops=2C we forgot this??!!"
Any single one of the items breached in the contract/hold harmless agreem
ent=2C breaches the whole thing.
Maybe because I've been through the process=2C and have had to deal with
so many scumbag attorneys (redundant=2C I know) that I am not hung up on th
is stuff. If you don't know anything else=2C you've GOT to know this!!!!
Attorneys don't do a damn thing unless they make the big bucks. And seeing
their clients notarized signature on my HH Form wouldn't look too promisin
g.
Yes=2C the EAA probably does have a HH form=2C but I didn't look.
Mike Welch
Internet Explorer 8 ' Get your Hotmail Accelera'_new'>Download free!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Subject: | Re: Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... |
although bracing won't hurt, the larger diameter tailwheels reduce
stress on the whole works because
they ride smoother over rough ground. If you taxi on only paved
surfaces you shouldn't have to do anything.
If you are going with the Maule buy the SFSA soft solid version. -a
nice cushiony wheel that will never go flat.
A little expensive at $400+
I installed the homebuilt 6" L-696 soft solid wheel and am very
impressed. It handles and turns great and
IMO is more suited to a MKIII than a larger wheel. -additionally it
will fit a round tube if drilled out to match
the Kolb spring.
BB
(not BillyBob)
On 31, Mar 2009, at 1:23 PM, Nick Cassara wrote:
> Hello John H and Kolber=92s
>
> I am going to follow John=92s lead and put a larger tail wheel on my
> Kolbra. I am looking at the Maule SFS-P8A in Aircraft Spruce.
> Since I have yet to build my tail, I am wondering if there is any
> need for, or recommendations of structural changes to the lower
> vertical Stabilizer.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
>
> Palmer, AK
> 20*F=85No volcanic ash falling today!!
>
>
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Subject: | Re: fuel flow meter |
Hey Ellery,
You should be just about done with the Mark III X by now.
I don't hang around here... So I haven't noticed if you've posted progress....
Don't know if you heard... But the guy you made the trade with...
Can't fly... either he gets air sick.... or he got scared...Don't know.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dog
.
Building Wittman- Buttercup
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237073#237073
Attachments:
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Subject: | 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs |
Fellow 912 Drivers -
Looking for your collective experiences to help me solve this 912ul
mystery.
Last week, after returning from a 2-hour flight in my Mark-3, I noticed
gas dripping from one of the air filters.
This has never happened before, so I am baffled as to what might've
caused this.
Here are some specifics of the flight, that might offer clues:
I was flying at a higher-than-normal (for me) power setting that day -
5100 rpm.
My auxiliary (electric) fuel pump was operating the whole time. It's a
Facet -same as what many of us use.
I also discovered fuel in the carb overflow hose - the little 1/8 inch
clear tube that comes out from the carb.
It only dripped for a minute or two after engine shutdown, then stopped.
The engine seemed to run fine the entire flight.
I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric
fuel pump running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus
overflowing it. But I don't know this for sure.
Any clues?
Many thanks -
Dennis Kirby
Cedar Crest, NM
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I discussed this with a personal injury lawyer. He advised me to destroy the aircraft
if I no longer wanted it to be 100% safe. I did not follow his advise
and sold the plane.
The other defense to be safe is to be 100% broke. Civil litigation is always about
money; no money = no litigation.
--------
Jim O'Day
Fargo, ND
Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237074#237074
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Jim=2C
You found one of those worthless attorneys I mentioned. To suggest you d
estroy the plane is just plain stupid=2C stupid=2C stupid!!
Selling the plane was more intelligent than his advice.
Remember people=2C we are talking about attorneys here. Some good=2C and
some not so good.
It's not like we were dealing with the best of the best....like community o
rganizers=2C or anything.
Mike Welch
And BB=2C that was funny as hell!!
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: lawyers
> From: jimoday@hotmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 31 Mar 2009 12:03:24 -0700
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I discussed this with a personal injury lawyer. He advised me to destroy
the aircraft if I no longer wanted it to be 100% safe. I did not follow his
advise and sold the plane.
>
> The other defense to be safe is to be 100% broke. Civil litigation is alw
ays about money=3B no money = no litigation.
>
> --------
> Jim O'Day
> Fargo=2C ND
> Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237074#237074
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
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>
>
>
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So I guess selling a car or motorcycle could result in the same crap.
Ok say I sell my plane to someone and they take it home crash it and die. Now the
family hires a lawyer to sue me for selling them an unsafe aircraft. They would
probably say I willingly sold the person an aircraft that I knew was not
safe to fly.
What if i had a video of the demo flight performed by me and the guy on tape reading
and agreeing to the hold harmless form.
Would that be good evidence?
And to protect my financial assets what if upon receipt of the notice of the pending
lawsuit, I moved all of my assets over to my wife's name that way i did
not own a dime?
Cant be sued if you don't have anything right?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237094#237094
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? |
Ellery wrote: << with all the sue happy people these days is there a
way to save this from happening so the guy won't be liable for the plane
ever ? >>
Ellery -
This topic has been asked and kicked around on the Kolb List in the
past. I asked the same question to Joe Norris, of EAA Aviation Services
in Oshkosh. His answer was, in short, there is NO liability trail back
to the seller, by the very nature that it is an
Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft. Here's why:
When the purchaser buys your aircraft, THEY must make the assertion that
the entire aircraft (including the engine) is in a condition for safe
operation. Further, on any given flight in an experimental aircraft,
the person operating the aircraft is responsible to ascertain that the
aircraft is in a condition for safe operation. Thus, there is no
responsibility to any party that had previous ownership of the aircraft
or its components.
Joe Norris goes on to suggest that you could, if you wish, make up some
form of sales document. This document would declare that the aircraft
is experimental in nature, and is sold "as is, where is" with no
warrantee of condition or suitability expressed or implied. I've even
seen someone suggest that, if you REALLY wanted to cover yourself, you
include the words, "THIS AIRCRAFT IS GUARANTEED TO KILL YOU." But that
seems like overkill.
Hope this helps ...
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul (with a drippy carb), in
Cedar Crest, NM
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Subject: | Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs |
The only way fuel gets into the air filter is past the needle and seat.It h
as to fill the float bowl high enough to be pushed out of the main jet disch
arge.More pressure than the needle can handle,perhaps because of the use of
the aux pump.There are different size needles and seats for higher pressure
systems with the Bing 64CV.The residual pressure in the pump and hoses will
force fuel past the seat until the pressure equalizes atmospheric.=C2-
=C2- G Aman MK 3 C 2200 Jabiru Bing 64CV
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Sent: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 1:59 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs
Fellow 912 Drivers =93
=C2-
Looking for your collective experiences to help me solve
this 912ul mystery.
Last week, after returning from a 2-hour flight in my
Mark-3, I noticed gas dripping from one of the air filters.
This has never happened before, so I am baffled as to what
might=99ve caused this.
=C2-
Here are some specifics of the flight, that might offer
clues:
I was flying at a higher-than-normal (for me) power setting
that day =93 5100 rpm.
My auxiliary (electric) fuel pump was operating the whole
time.=C2- It=99s a Facet =93same as what many of us use.
I also discovered fuel i
n the carb overflow hose =93 the
little 1/8 inch clear tube that comes out from the carb.
=C2-
It only dripped for a minute or two after engine shutdown,
then stopped.
The engine seemed to run fine the entire flight.
I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric
fuel pump running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus overflowi
ng
it.=C2- =C2-But I don=99t know this for sure.
=C2-
Any clues?
=C2-
Many thanks =93
Dennis Kirby
Cedar Crest, NM
====================
==============
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Subject: | Re: Distroying a KOLB ? Lawyers-lawsuits |
Hi Guys,=0A=0AI have been told some time ago that while there are numerous
urban legends regarding the sale of Experimental Amatuer Built aircraft tha
t there has never been a successful suit, brought against a builder, that r
esulted in significant damages being awarded.- Does anyone know, first ha
nd of actual damages?- I am sure builders have been sued but were the sui
ts successful?=0A=0AJon L=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs |
Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland. wrote:
>
>
>
> Fellow 912 Drivers
>
> Looking for your collective experiences to help me solve this 912ul mystery.
> Last week, after returning from a 2-hour flight in my Mark-3, I noticed gas dripping
from one of the air filters.
> This has never happened before, so I am baffled as to what mightve caused this.
>
> Here are some specifics of the flight, that might offer clues:
> I was flying at a higher-than-normal (for me) power setting that day 5100 rpm.
> My auxiliary (electric) fuel pump was operating the whole time. Its a Facet
same as what many of us use.
> I also discovered fuel in the carb overflow hose the little 1/8 inch clear tube
that comes out from the carb.
>
> It only dripped for a minute or two after engine shutdown, then stopped.
> The engine seemed to run fine the entire flight.
> I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric fuel pump
running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus overflowing it. But
I dont know this for sure.
>
> Any clues?
>
> Many thanks
> Dennis Kirby
> Cedar Crest, NM
>
There was a service bulletin on the 912 fuel pump (I believe it was the FP) a while
back where a possible overpressure situation could develop when an auxiliary
electric pump is used.
Can't remember if it was both the 80 and 100hp engines...
You might check through the bulletins on rotax-owner.com and see if your engine
is affected. I think you had to replace the fuel pump to comply with it.
Otherwise, could just be a sticky float valve. I had one of the float bowl pins
bent on one of my carbs when I first got mine, no idea how it got bent, but it
made it so only one float was actually functional. The motor ran perfectly,
but there was always a fine layer of gas on the float bowl after flying that I
simply didn't notice for a while. Replaced the bowl and that fixed it.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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Subject: | Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs |
Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland. wrote:
>
>
>
> I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric fuel pump
running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus overflowing it. But
I dont know this for sure.
>
> Any clues?
>
>
Running the engine at a higher RPM should not cause any increase in fuel pressure
to the carbs. If you have the correct pressure rating electric pump, running
that the entire time should not cause gas to leak out the carb. With the correct
facet fuel pump installed, the pressure to the carb is the very close to
the same weather the electric pump is turned on or off. Assuming you have the
correct pressure facet electric pump, and assuming it has not been causing
this fuel overflow in the past, I see no reason to suspect it now.
>From what you describe, the float bowl of your carb is overfilling and letting
it leak out of the carb at places you describe. It sounds like a stuck float
or stuck float valve to me. I would also check the vitreon valve tip material
on the carb float valve to make sure it is in good condition and capable of
shutting off the gas in the float chamber to prevent overfilling of the float
bowl.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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