---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/31/09: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:56 AM - Re: Destroying a Kolb (william sullivan) 2. 03:10 AM - Re: Destroying a Kolb (william sullivan) 3. 03:57 AM - Re: Re: Destroying a Kolb (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 4. 04:33 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Thom Riddle) 5. 05:42 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Eugene Zimmerman) 6. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Mike Welch) 7. 05:49 AM - Re: Destroying a Kolb (N111KX (Kip)) 8. 06:06 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (russ kinne) 9. 06:13 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (Gray, Mark) 10. 06:19 AM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (clrprop) 11. 06:41 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (Mike Welch) 12. 07:08 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (robert bean) 13. 07:08 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (russ kinne) 14. 07:20 AM - Re: Destroying a KOLB ? (herb) 15. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (George Myers) 16. 08:06 AM - Hold Harmless Release Form (Mike Welch) 17. 08:26 AM - lawyers (Mike Welch) 18. 08:50 AM - Re: lawyers (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 19. 10:07 AM - Re: lawyers (Dana Hague) 20. 10:24 AM - Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... (Nick Cassara) 21. 10:39 AM - Re: Hold Harmless Release Form (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net) 22. 10:48 AM - Re: lawyers (Mike Welch) 23. 11:55 AM - Re: Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... (robert bean) 24. 12:02 PM - Re: fuel flow meter (planecrazzzy) 25. 12:03 PM - 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 26. 12:03 PM - Re: lawyers (Jim ODay) 27. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: lawyers (Mike Welch) 28. 01:47 PM - Re: lawyers (grantr) 29. 02:25 PM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 30. 03:17 PM - Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (zeprep251@aol.com) 31. 04:16 PM - Re: Distroying a KOLB ? Lawyers-lawsuits (Jon LaVasseur) 32. 04:25 PM - Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (lucien) 33. 05:36 PM - Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs (JetPilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:44 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Destroying a Kolb - Ellery- I am really digging in the old memory, but I seem to remember t hat there is something called a "Hold Harmless" agreement in the UCC (Unifo rm Commercial Code). - In the equipment business, we used to use UCC Forms 1 and 2 a lot, whic h were for partial title of objects- like a truck with a crane on it, and t wo suppliers involved.- Kind of a way to make sure everybody got paid.- Reassure the guy that this question is a common worry, and can be resolved .- Have him see a lawyer!- It would be a lot cheaper than destroying it .- - ------------------------- ------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct .. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:23 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Destroying a Kolb Ellery- I just had another thought.- Have him take the wings off, and sel l it as parts- "Not an airworthy vehicle".- I understand it's commonly do ne with 103's for liability reasons. - ------------------------- ------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct .. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:28 AM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Destroying a Kolb The guy said he has already talked to a lawyer Im guessing the wrong one first Ellery in Maine In a message dated 3/31/2009 4:57:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, williamtsullivan@att.net writes: Ellery- I am really digging in the old memory, but I seem to remember that there is something called a "Hold Harmless" agreement in the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code). In the equipment business, we used to use UCC Forms 1 and 2 a lot, which were for partial title of objects- like a truck with a crane on it, and two suppliers involved. Kind of a way to make sure everybody got paid. Reassure the guy that this question is a common worry, and can be resolved. Have him see a lawyer! It would be a lot cheaper than destroying it. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:46 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? From: "Thom Riddle" Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition to BB's advice to see a lawyer, perhaps he should see a shrink too. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:02 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Distroying a KOLB ? On Mar 30, 2009, at 8:41 PM, ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote: > is there a way to save this from happening so the guy won't be > liable for the plane ever ? The only way I know of is to sue him for all he has, including his kolb, for threatening to take the life of his Mk3xtra . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:07 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? Ellery=2C I agree with the comments so far. Thom especially described this guy. It's just amazing the number of anal people there are! First of all=2C t his guy's concerns can be covered by a simple hold-harmless release form. Secondly=2C it is damn near impossible for a private citizen to be sued by another private citizen from a different state. (costs are the biggest reas on=2C jurisdiction is the next=2C practicality=2C etc. The scope of the tr ial would have to be in the millions for anyone to get an attorney that wou ld accept the case{and he/she wouldn't take the case without a prepaid cash retainer=2C a BIG reta iner}) In the course of 30 minutes=2C this guy could generate a form to be safe from litigation. Included in the form could be: 1) plane sold as parts only=2C assembly at your own risk! 2) flying is dangerous=2C operate at your own risk 3) if this aircraft is put into service=2C it must be inspected by an FAA licensed A & P=2C and properly registered with the FAA as a Experimental Ca tegory Aircraft=2C prior to use 4) do not operate this aircraft without completing proper licensed flight instruction first=2C and be signed off by a CFI I'm not an attorney=2C but I play one on TV. Actually=2C sad to say=2C I have sued many people=2C and been sued once=2C so I do know my way around the courthouse. I wish that weren't true! I have also testified as an "expert witness" on behalf of the state about 25 times. If this guy is truly considering destroying his plane=2C because of fear of litigation=2C he shouldn't built it in the first place. He would be bet ter off living in a cave. Tell him to get a release form and relax!!! Just my thoughts..... Mike Welch MkIII > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? > From: riddletr@gmail.com > Date: Tue=2C 31 Mar 2009 04:32:37 -0700 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > > Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition to BB's advice to see a lawyer=2C perhaps he should see a shrink too. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo=2C NY > http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi > http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix > > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a si mple system that works. > - John Gaule > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200 9 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Destroying a Kolb From: "N111KX (Kip)" Donating to a museum sounds like a better option to me... -------- Kip Firestar II, N111KX Waiex, N111YX Quickie 1, N111QX Atlanta Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237002#237002 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:10 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Distroying a KOLB ? Ellery Hold-harmless releases are quite common, and very good if properly written But I doubt if selling it as unassembled parts would totally protect him. He'd still need a H-H release And maybe sad to say, but he needs a lawyer. They often do keep people out of trouble Russ K ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:05 AM PST US From: "Gray, Mark" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that I will be getting rid of o nce the new bird is finished. I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and don't w ant to go thru that again, just the lawyer cost will be more than I can sel l it for. I hope to see something positive come from this discussion. Do Not Archive Mark Gray N229K ________________________________ The information in this email and attachments hereto may contain legally pr ivileged, proprietary or confidential information that is intended for a pa rticular recipient. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employ ee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipi ent(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, retention or use of the contents of this e-mail information is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers or vendors, any inf ormation contained in this e-mail is subject to the terms and conditions in the governing contract, if applicable. If you have received this communica tion in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail, permanently d elete any electronic copies of this communication and destroy any paper cop ies. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:25 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? From: "clrprop" I know someone that did this. I think it was a Baby Ace. He destroyed the engine as well. It shocked me to hear about it. He was worried about liability as the builder even from third or fourth owners if it was resold. I guess no disclaimer can keep them from suing you. Even if you win, it might bankrupt you fighting it. He opted for the peace of mind. Can't say I would do the same. Keath T MKIII C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237008#237008 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:26 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? Mark=2C Hello. Haven't heard from you before. Hi. Talking to an attorney can be just as useless as talking some guy on the corner. I said "CAN BE"!! It depends on the attorney. They are as differ ent as any other class of people. There are some good ones=2C and there ar e some worthless ones. The problem is=2C they don't admit to being worthle ss=2C but they will still take your money. Trust me on this one!! In the course of being self-employed for more than 35 years=2C I hate to confess that I have had to deal with the legal system. Makes me sick=2C to be honest. However=2C I have read the law books for my own research=2C es pecially regarding product liability=2C mechantability=2C intended-uses=2C and in some cases=2C responsibility. Hell=2C just because I like to hear myself think=2C I'll throw together a quick Hold-Harmless release form this evening. It isn't rocket science to sell an airplane=2C for Pete's sake!! Now=2C for those inclined to argue with me=2C let me make sure I point ou t I am talking about PRIVATE citizens selling to other private citizens. A n airplane manufacturer is a different story. But=2C even they cover their ass with a simple release form. Have some of the maufacturers been sued? Yes! But=2C that's because some lowlife attorney knew the manufacturer ha d insurance or assets to seize (read that big $$$). Mike Welch suedo know-it-all From: Mark.Gray@Takata.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? I am in the same boat=2C I have a Firestar II that I will be getting rid of once the new bird is finished. I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and don=92t want to go thru that again=2C just the lawyer cost will be more than I can sell it for. I hope to see something positive come from this discussion. Do Not Archive Mark Gray N229K The information in this email and attachments hereto may contain legally pr ivileged=2C proprietary or confidential information that is intended for a particular recipient. If you are not the intended recipient(s)=2C or the em ployee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended re cipient(s)=2C you are hereby notified that any disclosure=2C copying=2C dis tribution=2C retention or use of the contents of this e-mail information is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers or vend ors=2C any information contained in this e-mail is subject to the terms and conditions in the governing contract=2C if applicable. If you have receive d this communication in error=2C please immediately notify us by return e-m ail=2C permanently delete any electronic copies of this communication and d estroy any paper copies. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200 9 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:56 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? Keep it until you are dead. Let someone else sort it out. If you are listed as the manufacturer you are liable to the end. Once the "company" has gone bankrupt the lawyers lose interest. BB On 31, Mar 2009, at 9:12 AM, Gray, Mark wrote: > I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that I will be getting > rid of once the new bird is finished. > I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and > don=92t want to go thru that again, just the lawyer cost will be more > than I can sell it for. > I hope to see something positive come from this discussion. > > Do Not Archive > > Mark Gray > N229K > > The information in this email and attachments hereto may contain > legally privileged, proprietary or confidential information that is > intended for a particular recipient. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of > this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, copying, distribution, retention or use of the > contents of this e-mail information is prohibited and may be > unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers or vendors, any > information contained in this e-mail is subject to the terms and > conditions in the governing contract, if applicable. If you have > received this communication in error, please immediately notify us > by return e-mail, permanently delete any electronic copies of this > communication and destroy any paper copies. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:56 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? Mike Thanx for your input. It's a sorry state of affairs when we have to have a lawyer in our pockets all the time, but there it is. I've been self-employed for 50 years, and luckily have never been sued. They've tried, but I have METICULOUS paper records (tho I hate paperwork) and was able to fend them off. But as you point out, even if you win, defending yourself will cost you a big bundle. We SHOULD make the loser pay all costs; this would eliminate thousands of frivolous cases. Maybe Obama will do this for us when he gets time. But a good, properly-written HH release should hold. Could you share the one you write with us? Lawyers usually go after the deepest pockets they can find, but lots of them have little to do these days & may tackle most anything. FWIW Russ K On Mar 31, 2009, at 9:40 AM, Mike Welch wrote: > Mark, > > Hello. Haven't heard from you before. Hi. > > Talking to an attorney can be just as useless as talking some guy > on the corner. I said "CAN BE"!! It depends on the attorney. > They are as different as any other class of people. There are some > good ones, and there are some worthless ones. The problem is, they > don't admit to being worthless, but they will still take your > money. Trust me on this one!! > > In the course of being self-employed for more than 35 years, I > hate to confess that I have had to deal with the legal system. > Makes me sick, to be honest. However, I have read the law books > for my own research, especially regarding product liability, > mechantability, intended-uses, and in some cases, responsibility. > > Hell, just because I like to hear myself think, I'll throw > together a quick Hold-Harmless release form this evening. It isn't > rocket science to sell an airplane, for Pete's sake!! > > Now, for those inclined to argue with me, let me make sure I > point out I am talking about PRIVATE citizens selling to other > private citizens. An airplane manufacturer is a different story. > But, even they cover their ass with a simple release form. Have > some of the maufacturers been sued? Yes! But, that's because some > lowlife attorney knew the manufacturer had insurance or assets to > seize (read that big $$$). > > Mike Welch > suedo know-it-all > > From: Mark.Gray@Takata.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:12:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? > > I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that I will be getting > rid of once the new bird is finished. > I have already been on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and > don=92t want to go thru that again, just the lawyer cost will be more > than I can sell it for. > I hope to see something positive come from this discussion. > > Do Not Archive > > Mark Gray > N229K > > The information in this email and attachments hereto may contain > legally privileged, proprietary or confidential information that is > intended for a particular recipient. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of > this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, copying, distribution, retention or use of the > contents of this e-mail information is prohibited and may be > unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers or vendors, any > information contained in this e-mail is subject to the terms and > conditions in the governing contract, if applicable. If you have > received this communication in error, please immediately notify us > by return e-mail, permanently delete any electronic copies of this > communication and destroy any paper copies. > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > > Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. > Find out more. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:17 AM PST US From: herb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? Mike Before you pen this Hold Harmless...Check the EAA site...They likely have a pretty good one... as my Cousin "the Judge" said...and my cousin "the lawyer" said.... The law ain't necessarily fair ; its just the law...!! Herb At 08:40 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote: >Mark, > > Hello. Haven't heard from you before. Hi. > > Talking to an attorney can be just as useless > as talking some guy on the corner. I said "CAN > BE"!! It depends on the attorney. They are as > different as any other class of people. There > are some good ones, and there are some > worthless ones. The problem is, they don't > admit to being worthless, but they will still > take your money. Trust me on this one!! > > In the course of being self-employed for more > than 35 years, I hate to confess that I have > had to deal with the legal system. Makes me > sick, to be honest. However, I have read the > law books for my own research, especially > regarding product liability, mechantability, > intended-uses, and in some cases, responsibility. > > Hell, just because I like to hear myself > think, I'll throw together a quick > Hold-Harmless release form this evening. It > isn't rocket science to sell an airplane, for Pete's sake!! > > Now, for those inclined to argue with me, let > me make sure I point out I am talking about > PRIVATE citizens selling to other private > citizens. An airplane manufacturer is a > different story. But, even they cover their > ass with a simple release form. Have some of > the maufacturers been sued? Yes! But, that's > because some lowlife attorney knew the > manufacturer had insurance or assets to seize (read that big $$$). > >Mike Welch >suedo know-it-all > > >---------- >From: Mark.Gray@Takata.com >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:12:47 -0400 >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Destroying a KOLB ? > >I am in the same boat, I have a Firestar II that >I will be getting rid of once the new bird is finished. > >I have already been on the receiving end of a >frivolous lawsuit and don=92t want to go thru that >again, just the lawyer cost will be more than I can sell it for. > >I hope to see something positive come from this discussion. > > >Do Not Archive > > >Mark Gray > >N229K > > >---------- >The information in this email and attachments >hereto may contain legally privileged, >proprietary or confidential information that is >intended for a particular recipient. If you are >not the intended recipient(s), or the employee >or agent responsible for delivery of this >message to the intended recipient(s), you are >hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >distribution, retention or use of the contents >of this e-mail information is prohibited and may >be unlawful. When addressed to Takata customers >or vendors, any information contained in this >e-mail is subject to the terms and conditions in >the governing contract, if applicable. If you >have received this communication in error, >please immediately notify us by return e-mail, >permanently delete any electronic copies of this >communication and destroy any paper copies. > > >ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >ronics.com >ww.matronics.com/contribution > > >---------- >Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news >travels really fast. >Find >out more. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:09 AM PST US From: "George Myers" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? As a blue collar comedian once said "You kaint' fix stoopid". From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Welch Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:49 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? Ellery, I agree with the comments so far. Thom especially described this guy. It's just amazing the number of anal people there are! First of all, this guy's concerns can be covered by a simple hold-harmless release form. Secondly, it is damn near impossible for a private citizen to be sued by another private citizen from a different state. (costs are the biggest reason, jurisdiction is the next, practicality, etc. The scope of the trial would have to be in the millions for anyone to get an attorney that would accept the case{and he/she wouldn't take the case without a prepaid cash retainer, a BIG retainer}) In the course of 30 minutes, this guy could generate a form to be safe from litigation. Included in the form could be: 1) plane sold as parts only, assembly at your own risk! 2) flying is dangerous, operate at your own risk 3) if this aircraft is put into service, it must be inspected by an FAA licensed A & P, and properly registered with the FAA as a Experimental Category Aircraft, prior to use 4) do not operate this aircraft without completing proper licensed flight instruction first, and be signed off by a CFI I'm not an attorney, but I play one on TV. Actually, sad to say, I have sued many people, and been sued once, so I do know my way around the courthouse. I wish that weren't true! I have also testified as an "expert witness" on behalf of the state about 25 times. If this guy is truly considering destroying his plane, because of fear of litigation, he shouldn't built it in the first place. He would be better off living in a cave. Tell him to get a release form and relax!!! Just my thoughts..... Mike Welch MkIII > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? > From: riddletr@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 04:32:37 -0700 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > > Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition to BB's advice to see a lawyer, perhaps he should see a shrink too. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi > http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix > > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. > - John Gaule > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993 > >= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, &g== > > > _____ HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:36 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Hold Harmless Release Form Hold Harmless Release Form To whom it may concern: I=2C(Seller)____________________=2C sell the following aircraft=2C (or pa rts=2C or whatever)=2C to (Buyer)________________________=2C on this date__ _________. Prior to agreeing to the purchase of this aircraft (or parts=2C etc)=2C t he Buyer is advised of the following=2C and accepts ALL risks contained the rein: This aircraft=2C (or parts=2C etc) is sold with the thorough understandin g it composed of NON-CERTIFIED parts=2C that is=2C parts that the FAA has n ot deemed suitable for aircraft construction. Such parts may include=2C but not be limited to=2C hardware store bolts and fittings=2C home-made items and other types of brackets and fasteners=2C that are used to constru ct this aircraft. This aircraft=2C (or parts=2C etc.) does NOT comply with any Federal qual ity requirements=2C for use as a certified aircraft=2C and any use of this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) is at the expressed acknowledgement of the Buyer that he accepts all risks involved. buyer's initials________ Buyer further understands and agrees that building an aircraft has many u nforeseen risks. These risks may include=2C but are not limited to=2C airc raft parts longevity=2C allowable tolerances=2C parts used for manufacturer 's non-intended uses=2C undersized fasteners=2C (which may include=2C but a re not limited to=3B nuts=2C bolts=2C cables=2C screws=2C rivets=2C fabric =2C paint=2C tubing=2C etc.) Buyer fully understands and accepts that this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) is not manufactured=2C nor tested=2C by ANY qualifying entity=2C either fed eral or private. Buyer accepts the responsibility that he will thoroughly inspect=2C repair=2C create=2C or otherwise bring this aircraft (or parts =2C etc) up to a FULLY flyable=2C fully dependable=2C fully capable aircraf t=2C prior to it's intended use. Buyer's initials_________ Buyer also acknowledges that ALL aircraft in the USA are regulated by the FAA (Federal Aviation Authority). The buyer will license=2C have inspecte d=2C and maintain this aircraft to ALL legal requirements of ALL controllin g agencies=2C including=2C but not limited to=2C federal=2C state=2C and lo cal requirements and laws. Buyer is to have this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) inspected by a competent =2C fully licensed FAA "A & P mechanic"=2C with the powers necessary to sta te whether this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) is safe=2C flyable=2C and comple tely authorized for it's intended uses. Buyer is NOT to operate=2C use=2C or put into service=2C said aircraft (or parts=2C etc) without such inspect ion and approval by such authorized inspector. It is also completely understood by Buyer=2C that Seller has no control w hatsoever of the completed construction=2C maintenance=2C modification=2C a lteration=2C change of design=2C use=2C or any other method where Buyer can deviate from what Seller created=2C built or assembled. Seller does NOT c ontrol what Buyer does! Buyer's initials_____________ Buyer agrees to fully comply with ALL laws=2C rules=2C guidelines=2C etc. of all governing entities=2C with regard to building=2C repairing=2C flyin g=2C maintaining=2C and using this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) Any failure of Buyer to act in ANY unlawful=2C unauthorized=2C illegal=2C o r otherwise prohibited fashion=2C is solely the fault and actions of the Bu yer. Buyer's initials_____________ Lastly=2C Buyer understands and accepts it is his=2C and ONLY his=2C resp onsibility to see that this aircraft (or parts=2C etc) is/are trustworthy =2C and will safely perform as expected. Seller has no ability to control Buyer's further actions=2C in any regard=2C with referen ce to this transaction. Sellers liability ends with this sale=2C and any future action by Buyer is at Buyer's expense=2C both monetarily and physically. Seller______________________________________ Date_____________________ Buyer______________________________________ Date_____________________ Notary Public________________________________ Date_____________________ Seal______________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Ex plorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037 MSN55C0701A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:09 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: lawyers Kolb people=2C I threw that together in the course of an hour and a half. I'd love to s ee someone try to sue me=2C after signing this. I wouldn't need a lawyer. I'd send a copy registered mail to their attorney=2C after I was notified I was being sued. Their attorney would ask for more "retainer" and then advise them "YOU DI DN'T TELL ME THIS!!!!" "Am I supposed to go into court and tell the judge =2C oops=2C we forgot this??!!" Any single one of the items breached in the contract/hold harmless agreem ent=2C breaches the whole thing. Maybe because I've been through the process=2C and have had to deal with so many scumbag attorneys (redundant=2C I know) that I am not hung up on th is stuff. If you don't know anything else=2C you've GOT to know this!!!! Attorneys don't do a damn thing unless they make the big bucks. And seeing their clients notarized signature on my HH Form wouldn't look too promisin g. Yes=2C the EAA probably does have a HH form=2C but I didn't look. Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Internet Explorer 8 ' Get your Hotmail Accelerated. Download free! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:09 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: lawyers Mike When the widow is standing in court crying with her six kids the jury tends to overlook any hold harmless form. Your right about the money thing. If you still have a big TARP bonus check, deep pockets, or airplane liability insurance you will be a target. For the rest of us it isn't worth the lawyers time. I personally like the statement in the hold harmless that states that this airplane is guaranteed to kill. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Kolb-List: lawyers Kolb people, I threw that together in the course of an hour and a half. I'd love to see someone try to sue me, after signing this. I wouldn't need a lawyer. I'd send a copy registered mail to their attorney, after I was notified I was being sued. Their attorney would ask for more "retainer" and then advise them "YOU DIDN'T TELL ME THIS!!!!" "Am I supposed to go into court and tell the judge, oops, we forgot this??!!" Any single one of the items breached in the contract/hold harmless agreement, breaches the whole thing. Maybe because I've been through the process, and have had to deal with so many scumbag attorneys (redundant, I know) that I am not hung up on this stuff. If you don't know anything else, you've GOT to know this!!!! Attorneys don't do a damn thing unless they make the big bucks. And seeing their clients notarized signature on my HH Form wouldn't look too promising. Yes, the EAA probably does have a HH form, but I didn't look. Mike Welch ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Internet Explorer 8 ' Get your Hotmail Accelera'_new'>Download free! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:25 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: lawyers From what I understand, well written hold harmless agreements can be effective in preventing the person who signed it from bringing legal action against you, but it's not binding on his heirs, even if there is verbage to that effect on the paper... IOW if he crashes and dies you can still be sued by his wife and/or kids. However, I've also read that including a stipulation in the agreement that any disputes be settled by binding arbitration rather than the courts IS binding on the heirs... and arbitration by a group of people knowledgeable in the aviation world would likely go much better for the seller than a jury of people who've never seen an airplane smaller than a 737/ -Dana -- But it's NOT an ASSAULT Weapon, it's a DEFENSE weapon! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:59 AM PST US From: "Nick Cassara" Subject: Kolb-List: Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... Hello John H and Kolber's I am going to follow John's lead and put a larger tail wheel on my Kolbra. I am looking at the Maule SFS-P8A in Aircraft Spruce. Since I have yet to build my tail, I am wondering if there is any need for, or recommendations of structural changes to the lower vertical Stabilizer. Thanks, Nick Cassara Palmer, AK 20*F.No volcanic ash falling today!! ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:53 AM PST US From: purplemoon99@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hold Harmless Release Form ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:16 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: lawyers Rick=2C This widow=2C who has six kids=2C is the same one who's husband spent all of their money on home-built airplanes=2C isn't she?? In truth=2C not very many lawsuits of this scope go to trial. They usual ly are decided by a judge=2C or mediated=2C or arbitrated. Remember=2C we' re not talking Cessna=2C or Cirrus=2C just Billy Bob. All the barstool legal advice (from me and others) doesn't diminish a tho rough HH Agreement. NOT everything in this world is someone else's (previo us) fault!! Sometimes=2C believe it or not=2C it is the guy that flew the plane's fault. I still maintain that if this guy's lawyer got his mitts on your copy of the HH Agreement=2C signed and notorized by his client=2C the re just isn't going to be much further legal action. When there is no payd ay for the bloodsucker=2C they move on ambulance chasing=2C and asbestos cl aims. Mike Welch From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: lawyers Mike When the widow is standing in court crying with her six kids the jury tends to overlook any hold harmless form. Your right about the money thing. If y ou still have a big TARP bonus check=2C deep pockets=2C or airplane liabili ty insurance you will be a target. For the rest of us it isn't worth the la wyers time. I personally like the statement in the hold harmless that states that this airplane is guaranteed to kill. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch Sent: Tuesday=2C March 31=2C 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Kolb-List: lawyers Kolb people=2C I threw that together in the course of an hour and a half. I'd love to s ee someone try to sue me=2C after signing this. I wouldn't need a lawyer. I'd send a copy registered mail to their attorney=2C after I was notified I was being sued. Their attorney would ask for more "retainer" and then advise them "YOU DI DN'T TELL ME THIS!!!!" "Am I supposed to go into court and tell the judge =2C oops=2C we forgot this??!!" Any single one of the items breached in the contract/hold harmless agreem ent=2C breaches the whole thing. Maybe because I've been through the process=2C and have had to deal with so many scumbag attorneys (redundant=2C I know) that I am not hung up on th is stuff. If you don't know anything else=2C you've GOT to know this!!!! Attorneys don't do a damn thing unless they make the big bucks. And seeing their clients notarized signature on my HH Form wouldn't look too promisin g. Yes=2C the EAA probably does have a HH form=2C but I didn't look. Mike Welch Internet Explorer 8 ' Get your Hotmail Accelera'_new'>Download free! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail=AE .. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MS GTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:01 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Maule SFS-P8A tail wheel on Kolb... although bracing won't hurt, the larger diameter tailwheels reduce stress on the whole works because they ride smoother over rough ground. If you taxi on only paved surfaces you shouldn't have to do anything. If you are going with the Maule buy the SFSA soft solid version. -a nice cushiony wheel that will never go flat. A little expensive at $400+ I installed the homebuilt 6" L-696 soft solid wheel and am very impressed. It handles and turns great and IMO is more suited to a MKIII than a larger wheel. -additionally it will fit a round tube if drilled out to match the Kolb spring. BB (not BillyBob) On 31, Mar 2009, at 1:23 PM, Nick Cassara wrote: > Hello John H and Kolber=92s > > I am going to follow John=92s lead and put a larger tail wheel on my > Kolbra. I am looking at the Maule SFS-P8A in Aircraft Spruce. > Since I have yet to build my tail, I am wondering if there is any > need for, or recommendations of structural changes to the lower > vertical Stabilizer. > > Thanks, > > Nick Cassara > > Palmer, AK > 20*F=85No volcanic ash falling today!! > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:53 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fuel flow meter From: "planecrazzzy" Hey Ellery, You should be just about done with the Mark III X by now. I don't hang around here... So I haven't noticed if you've posted progress.... Don't know if you heard... But the guy you made the trade with... Can't fly... either he gets air sick.... or he got scared...Don't know. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dog .. Building Wittman- Buttercup -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237073#237073 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/leading_edges_finished_02_113.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/coating_wood_with_west_systems_02_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/leading_edge_19_214.jpg ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:08 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" Fellow 912 Drivers - Looking for your collective experiences to help me solve this 912ul mystery. Last week, after returning from a 2-hour flight in my Mark-3, I noticed gas dripping from one of the air filters. This has never happened before, so I am baffled as to what might've caused this. Here are some specifics of the flight, that might offer clues: I was flying at a higher-than-normal (for me) power setting that day - 5100 rpm. My auxiliary (electric) fuel pump was operating the whole time. It's a Facet -same as what many of us use. I also discovered fuel in the carb overflow hose - the little 1/8 inch clear tube that comes out from the carb. It only dripped for a minute or two after engine shutdown, then stopped. The engine seemed to run fine the entire flight. I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric fuel pump running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus overflowing it. But I don't know this for sure. Any clues? Many thanks - Dennis Kirby Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:31 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: lawyers From: "Jim ODay" I discussed this with a personal injury lawyer. He advised me to destroy the aircraft if I no longer wanted it to be 100% safe. I did not follow his advise and sold the plane. The other defense to be safe is to be 100% broke. Civil litigation is always about money; no money = no litigation. -------- Jim O'Day Fargo, ND Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237074#237074 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:24 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: lawyers Jim=2C You found one of those worthless attorneys I mentioned. To suggest you d estroy the plane is just plain stupid=2C stupid=2C stupid!! Selling the plane was more intelligent than his advice. Remember people=2C we are talking about attorneys here. Some good=2C and some not so good. It's not like we were dealing with the best of the best....like community o rganizers=2C or anything. Mike Welch And BB=2C that was funny as hell!! > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: lawyers > From: jimoday@hotmail.com > Date: Tue=2C 31 Mar 2009 12:03:24 -0700 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > > I discussed this with a personal injury lawyer. He advised me to destroy the aircraft if I no longer wanted it to be 100% safe. I did not follow his advise and sold the plane. > > The other defense to be safe is to be 100% broke. Civil litigation is alw ays about money=3B no money = no litigation. > > -------- > Jim O'Day > Fargo=2C ND > Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237074#237074 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_03200 9 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: lawyers From: "grantr" So I guess selling a car or motorcycle could result in the same crap. Ok say I sell my plane to someone and they take it home crash it and die. Now the family hires a lawyer to sue me for selling them an unsafe aircraft. They would probably say I willingly sold the person an aircraft that I knew was not safe to fly. What if i had a video of the demo flight performed by me and the guy on tape reading and agreeing to the hold harmless form. Would that be good evidence? And to protect my financial assets what if upon receipt of the notice of the pending lawsuit, I moved all of my assets over to my wife's name that way i did not own a dime? Cant be sued if you don't have anything right? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237094#237094 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:01 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" Ellery wrote: << with all the sue happy people these days is there a way to save this from happening so the guy won't be liable for the plane ever ? >> Ellery - This topic has been asked and kicked around on the Kolb List in the past. I asked the same question to Joe Norris, of EAA Aviation Services in Oshkosh. His answer was, in short, there is NO liability trail back to the seller, by the very nature that it is an Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft. Here's why: When the purchaser buys your aircraft, THEY must make the assertion that the entire aircraft (including the engine) is in a condition for safe operation. Further, on any given flight in an experimental aircraft, the person operating the aircraft is responsible to ascertain that the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation. Thus, there is no responsibility to any party that had previous ownership of the aircraft or its components. Joe Norris goes on to suggest that you could, if you wish, make up some form of sales document. This document would declare that the aircraft is experimental in nature, and is sold "as is, where is" with no warrantee of condition or suitability expressed or implied. I've even seen someone suggest that, if you REALLY wanted to cover yourself, you include the words, "THIS AIRCRAFT IS GUARANTEED TO KILL YOU." But that seems like overkill. Hope this helps ... Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul (with a drippy carb), in Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs From: zeprep251@aol.com The only way fuel gets into the air filter is past the needle and seat.It h as to fill the float bowl high enough to be pushed out of the main jet disch arge.More pressure than the needle can handle,perhaps because of the use of the aux pump.There are different size needles and seats for higher pressure systems with the Bing 64CV.The residual pressure in the pump and hoses will force fuel past the seat until the pressure equalizes atmospheric.=C2- =C2- G Aman MK 3 C 2200 Jabiru Bing 64CV -----Original Message----- From: Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL Sent: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 1:59 pm Subject: Kolb-List: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs Fellow 912 Drivers =93 =C2- Looking for your collective experiences to help me solve this 912ul mystery. Last week, after returning from a 2-hour flight in my Mark-3, I noticed gas dripping from one of the air filters. This has never happened before, so I am baffled as to what might=99ve caused this. =C2- Here are some specifics of the flight, that might offer clues: I was flying at a higher-than-normal (for me) power setting that day =93 5100 rpm. My auxiliary (electric) fuel pump was operating the whole time.=C2- It=99s a Facet =93same as what many of us use. I also discovered fuel i n the carb overflow hose =93 the little 1/8 inch clear tube that comes out from the carb. =C2- It only dripped for a minute or two after engine shutdown, then stopped. The engine seemed to run fine the entire flight. I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric fuel pump running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus overflowi ng it.=C2- =C2-But I don=99t know this for sure. =C2- Any clues? =C2- Many thanks =93 Dennis Kirby Cedar Crest, NM ==================== ============== ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:51 PM PST US From: Jon LaVasseur Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Distroying a KOLB ? Lawyers-lawsuits Hi Guys,=0A=0AI have been told some time ago that while there are numerous urban legends regarding the sale of Experimental Amatuer Built aircraft tha t there has never been a successful suit, brought against a builder, that r esulted in significant damages being awarded.- Does anyone know, first ha nd of actual damages?- I am sure builders have been sued but were the sui ts successful?=0A=0AJon L=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:33 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs From: "lucien" Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland. wrote: > > > > Fellow 912 Drivers > > Looking for your collective experiences to help me solve this 912ul mystery. > Last week, after returning from a 2-hour flight in my Mark-3, I noticed gas dripping from one of the air filters. > This has never happened before, so I am baffled as to what mightve caused this. > > Here are some specifics of the flight, that might offer clues: > I was flying at a higher-than-normal (for me) power setting that day 5100 rpm. > My auxiliary (electric) fuel pump was operating the whole time. Its a Facet same as what many of us use. > I also discovered fuel in the carb overflow hose the little 1/8 inch clear tube that comes out from the carb. > > It only dripped for a minute or two after engine shutdown, then stopped. > The engine seemed to run fine the entire flight. > I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric fuel pump running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus overflowing it. But I dont know this for sure. > > Any clues? > > Many thanks > Dennis Kirby > Cedar Crest, NM > There was a service bulletin on the 912 fuel pump (I believe it was the FP) a while back where a possible overpressure situation could develop when an auxiliary electric pump is used. Can't remember if it was both the 80 and 100hp engines... You might check through the bulletins on rotax-owner.com and see if your engine is affected. I think you had to replace the fuel pump to comply with it. Otherwise, could just be a sticky float valve. I had one of the float bowl pins bent on one of my carbs when I first got mine, no idea how it got bent, but it made it so only one float was actually functional. The motor ran perfectly, but there was always a fine layer of gas on the float bowl after flying that I simply didn't notice for a while. Replaced the bowl and that fixed it. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237128#237128 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:45 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 912 Question - Gas dripping from the Carbs From: "JetPilot" Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland. wrote: > > > > I suspect that the combination of 5100 rpm, plus having the electric fuel pump running, might have caused excess fuel in the carb, thus overflowing it. But I dont know this for sure. > > Any clues? > > Running the engine at a higher RPM should not cause any increase in fuel pressure to the carbs. If you have the correct pressure rating electric pump, running that the entire time should not cause gas to leak out the carb. With the correct facet fuel pump installed, the pressure to the carb is the very close to the same weather the electric pump is turned on or off. Assuming you have the correct pressure facet electric pump, and assuming it has not been causing this fuel overflow in the past, I see no reason to suspect it now. >From what you describe, the float bowl of your carb is overfilling and letting it leak out of the carb at places you describe. It sounds like a stuck float or stuck float valve to me. I would also check the vitreon valve tip material on the carb float valve to make sure it is in good condition and capable of shutting off the gas in the float chamber to prevent overfilling of the float bowl. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! 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