---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/06/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - Yahoo! Auto Response (bczygan@yahoo.com) 2. 12:39 AM - 912 ULS starter (icrashrc) 3. 08:12 AM - saws (chris davis) 4. 08:51 AM - Re: saws (william sullivan) 5. 09:24 AM - Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum (Mike Welch) 6. 09:31 AM - Re: 912 ULS starter (JetPilot) 7. 09:35 AM - Re: Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum (Tom Longo) 8. 09:41 AM - Re: Yahoo! Auto Response (JetPilot) 9. 10:05 AM - Re: saws (Dana Hague) 10. 10:13 AM - Re: saws (zeprep251@aol.com) 11. 10:23 AM - Re: saws (Dennis Souder) 12. 10:38 AM - Re: Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum (George Myers) 13. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: 912 ULS starter (b young) 14. 11:48 AM - Bent Gear Legs and Hidden Damage (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 15. 11:53 AM - Re: saws (dshepherd) 16. 01:47 PM - saws (chris davis) 17. 02:21 PM - Re: saws (Vic) 18. 07:22 PM - Super LED Light (Bob) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:06 AM PST US From: bczygan@yahoo.com Subject: Kolb-List: Yahoo! Auto Response Hi Friend, How are you doing recently? I would like to introduce you a very good company which I know. Their website is *www.myehomebuy*They can offer you all kinds of Electronic products like laptops, gps,TV LCD,cell phones,ps3,MP3/4, etc........Please take some time to have a check, There must have something you'd like to buy. Their contact email: myehomebuy_service@188.com MSN: myehomebuy-easylife@hotmail.com Hope you have a good mood in shopping from their company! Best Regards Julie! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: 912 ULS starter From: "icrashrc" Has anyone measured the current draw of the Rotax 912 HD starter? I'm researching battery options and i wasn't smart enough to check mine before we started disassembly. Thanks, -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237946#237946 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:43 AM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Kolb-List: saws Anybody ever used a chop saw for cutting- aluminum tubing or- is there a reason against it ? Thanks Chris=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:16 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: saws - Chris-- I never used a chop saw for it, but I have used a table saw w ith a carbide blade.- Very noisy and dangerous- chips flying, and the pie ce can grab.- I use the miter guide and go through very slowly.- Hang o n tight.- The chop saw should work, but be very careful- full face shield , ear plugs, and hang on to the part.- Any chips with the table saw go qu ite a ways, too. - ------------------------- ------------------------- -- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------- -- Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:12 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum Chris=2C Using a miter saw with a "toothed" blade is more than scary=2C it's the k ind of thing that makes statistics. There is absolutely no SAFE way to do it. The problem is the way the saw blade's teeth want to grab the edge of the tubing once you've managed to break into the inner walls. You CAN use the chop saw=2C but you have to use the carborundum blade=2C made especially for cutting metal. These blades are completely circular=2C and do not "catch" and shred the tube=2C like a toothed blade will. My preference for cutting aluminum tubing is my Makita hand grinder=2C wi th the 1/16" thick "cut off disc. This is relatively safe=2C and very fast =2C when compared to a hack saw or jigsaw. The cheapo discs last very little. The brand name discs last a long time. You WILL get what you pay for!!! (Harbor Freight sells 10-packs for a few bucks. For the same price=2C you can buy 3 decent brand name discs that w ill outlast the 10-pack.) Since we are on the subject of cutting metal=2C never=2C never=2C never ( !!!) cut this stuff without ear protection. Take it from a deaf basturd=2C who's listened to Skil Saws whine for decades=2C these tools will take the ir toll on your hearing!! My hearing is about 40% of what is was when I wa s younger. While we are at it. Eye protection. Same as hearing!!!!! Never cut an y metal without decent eye protection. Last year=2C I had to go to an eye doctor=2C and have a metal sliver removed from my eyeball!! After 3+ weeks of the agony=2C I faced the music and got it removed. I was hoping it wou ld come out on it's own........nope! (I had to this 35 years ago=2C but it was a wood splinter back then.) I thought my glasses were good enough. They weren't. Here on the Kolb list=2C we want to always use protection!! Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_ Updates1_042009 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 912 ULS starter From: "JetPilot" I have an 18 Amp Hour battery in my Kolb that has been starting my 912-S for 3 years without a problem. I live in Florida, so I cant tell you weather it would work in cold weather or not. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237989#237989 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:20 AM PST US From: "Tom Longo" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum Put a plywood (fine tooth) blade in backwards and it works great for that. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Welch Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:24 PM To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum Chris, Using a miter saw with a "toothed" blade is more than scary, it's the kind of thing that makes statistics. There is absolutely no SAFE way to do it. The problem is the way the saw blade's teeth want to grab the edge of the tubing once you've managed to break into the inner walls. You CAN use the chop saw, but you have to use the carborundum blade, made especially for cutting metal. These blades are completely circular, and do not "catch" and shred the tube, like a toothed blade will. My preference for cutting aluminum tubing is my Makita hand grinder, with the 1/16" thick "cut off disc. This is relatively safe, and very fast, when compared to a hack saw or jigsaw. The cheapo discs last very little. The brand name discs last a long time. You WILL get what you pay for!!! (Harbor Freight sells 10-packs for a few bucks. For the same price, you can buy 3 decent brand name discs that will outlast the 10-pack.) Since we are on the subject of cutting metal, never, never, never (!!!) cut this stuff without ear protection. Take it from a deaf basturd, who's listened to Skil Saws whine for decades, these tools will take their toll on your hearing!! My hearing is about 40% of what is was when I was younger. While we are at it. Eye protection. Same as hearing!!!!! Never cut any metal without decent eye protection. Last year, I had to go to an eye doctor, and have a metal sliver removed from my eyeball!! After 3+ weeks of the agony, I faced the music and got it removed. I was hoping it would come out on it's own........nope! (I had to this 35 years ago, but it was a wood splinter back then.) I thought my glasses were good enough. They weren't. Here on the Kolb list, we want to always use protection!! Mike Welch MkIII ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Rediscover Hotmail: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:55 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Yahoo! Auto Response From: "JetPilot" Can they offer me an EIS for my Rotax ??? -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237992#237992 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:09 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: saws At 11:11 AM 4/6/2009, chris davis wrote: >Anybody ever used a chop saw for cutting aluminum tubing or is there a >reason against it ? Thanks Chris I did a lot of aluminum (tube and sheet) with my radial arm saw a couple of years ago. I bought a blade specifically made for light metals and plastic, which is used with stick wax. Messy and the metal you're cutting gets REAL hot, but it works. You do need to push the saw into the work rather than pulling it as you typically do with wood. -Dana -- This is a test of the emergency tagline system. Were this an actual tagline, you would see amusing mottos, disclaimers, a zillion net addresses, or edifying philisophical statements. This is only a test. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: saws From: zeprep251@aol.com A small band saw worked well for me,used a very fine tooth blade.at fast speed. -----Original Message----- From: Dana Hague Sent: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:58 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: saws At 11:11 AM 4/6/2009, chris davis wrote: Anybody ever used a chop saw for cutting? aluminum tubing or? is there a reason against it ? Thanks Chris I did a lot of aluminum (tube and sheet) with my radial arm saw a couple of years ago.? I bought a blade specifically made for light metals and plastic, which is used with stick wax.? Messy and the metal you're cutting gets REAL hot, but it works.? You do need to push the saw into the work rather than pulling it as you typically do with wood. -Dana -- ?This is a test of the emergency tagline system.? Were this an actual tagline, you would see amusing mottos, disclaimers, a zillion net addresses, or edifying philisophical statements.? This is only a test. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:10 AM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: saws Chris, Using a powered miterbox saw was all we ever used at Old Kolb for cutting aluminum tubing of all sizes . and tons of 5/16 x 035 for ribs. We used a carbide blade with the most teeth per inch available. I like to wear a leather glove on my left hand which did the tube holding chore. Never had a problem - not to say you couldn't. Of course, cut slowly and wear goggles as chips do fly everywhere. I don't argue with those who think it too dangerous - but it has worked for us. Dennis _____ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris davis Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: Kolb-List: saws Anybody ever used a chop saw for cutting aluminum tubing or is there a reason against it ? Thanks Chris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:58 AM PST US From: "George Myers" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum Actually if you turn the blade around backwards it cuts all manner of metal like butter. Use any old blade. Max Nix. From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Welch Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Saws, or more specifically, cutting aluminum Chris, Using a miter saw with a "toothed" blade is more than scary, it's the kind of thing that makes statistics. There is absolutely no SAFE way to do it. The problem is the way the saw blade's teeth want to grab the edge of the tubing once you've managed to break into the inner walls. You CAN use the chop saw, but you have to use the carborundum blade, made especially for cutting metal. These blades are completely circular, and do not "catch" and shred the tube, like a toothed blade will. My preference for cutting aluminum tubing is my Makita hand grinder, with the 1/16" thick "cut off disc. This is relatively safe, and very fast, when compared to a hack saw or jigsaw. The cheapo discs last very little. The brand name discs last a long time. You WILL get what you pay for!!! (Harbor Freight sells 10-packs for a few bucks. For the same price, you can buy 3 decent brand name discs that will outlast the 10-pack.) Since we are on the subject of cutting metal, never, never, never (!!!) cut this stuff without ear protection. Take it from a deaf basturd, who's listened to Skil Saws whine for decades, these tools will take their toll on your hearing!! My hearing is about 40% of what is was when I was younger. While we are at it. Eye protection. Same as hearing!!!!! Never cut any metal without decent eye protection. Last year, I had to go to an eye doctor, and have a metal sliver removed from my eyeball!! After 3+ weeks of the agony, I faced the music and got it removed. I was hoping it would come out on it's own........nope! (I had to this 35 years ago, but it was a wood splinter back then.) I thought my glasses were good enough. They weren't. Here on the Kolb list, we want to always use protection!! Mike Welch MkIII _____ Rediscover HotmailR: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:06 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: 912 ULS starter I have an 18 Amp Hour battery in my Kolb that has been starting my 912-S for 3 years without a problem. I live in Florida, so I cant tell you weather it would work in cold weather or not. Mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>. I have a 18 amp hour that starts the 912 in 20 deg temps. Boyd ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Bent Gear Legs and Hidden Damage From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" (NOTE - Subject Line has been changed to reflect current topic) "Thom Riddle" wrote: << If you land hard enough to bend a leg there is a fair chance there is other hidden damage. >> Thom - I must respectfully disagree with your statement, if you are referring to Kolb airplanes. As much as I hate to repeat this story (due to my damaged pride), here is my experience. On the maiden flight of my Mark-3 in 2002, I pancaked my airplane onto the runway (paved) on my very first landing. With no experience in such a light, low-inertia aircraft, I performed the classic got-too-slow stall after I pulled the power to idle on short final, and dropped it in from 8 feet. Airspeed dropped off very quickly, and I was still too high. I bent both gear legs, one of them so severely that gear leg was bent into the shape of a "U" and the bottom of the bend scraped on the runway! Very embarrassing. (Side note - after that little incident, I went and got proper Kolb training from Norm Labhart in the new Mark-3 Xtra demonstrator, at TNK in London. A weekend of money and time well spent!) I installed a new pair of gear legs, and all was well again with my aircraft. These are the stock aluminum gear legs. No other damage whatsoever to my cage. This speaks volumes about the structural integrity and excellence of Homer's design - the gear legs bent but the (expensive) steel cage remained completely undamaged. Like the fuse that blows to protect the electrical system, the aluminum gear legs saved the rest of my airplane from any damage. Of course, Thom, if you are referring to lesser quality aircraft than our Kolbs, then I take no issue with your statement! Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:01 AM PST US From: "dshepherd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: saws ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:18 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Kolb-List: saws Thank you guys for your responce to my Saws question ! Iwent to sears today and looked at the mitersaws and knowing myself I bought a new 10 inch band saw it was about the same price and I have experence with a band saw and k now that you can cut yourself with one and back out mayme loosing a finger but with a chopsaw I can see me "in the condition Im in and as halfassed as -I am I might just chop off my whole hand . so thats why I bought the ban d saw . I will let you know how it goes Thank Chris=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:00 PM PST US From: "Vic" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: saws Chris, Use a nonferrous blade, cut on the pull stroke, hold it firmly or clamped and make sure you use a backing board. A glove would'nt hurt incase you forget one of these suggestions. Alway use a firm slow cut. I cut from 5/16 tube to 3" angle, did the whole plane. You can even use a bandsaw- with cut oil. Tiny stuff is most unstable. Vic Ex carpenter 30Yrs ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:53 PM PST US From: "Bob" Subject: Kolb-List: Super LED Light To anyone considering strobes for their Kolb you may want to look at Whelens new Vertex Super-LED Light. We had a rep at my work last week and he showed us these new super LED lights and they were definitely bright. All self contained and very low current draw as you would expect from LEDs. You can choose from multiple flash patterns just by momentarily touching one wire to B+ to cycle through the different flash patterns. These look like they could be perfect wing tip strobes.You can buy a chrome bezel to go around the light which finishes them off nicely. You can check them out at whelen.com just to the right of the new product arrow. 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