Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:11 AM - Re: q (pj.ladd)
2. 03:49 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (Denny Rowe)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (Ralph B)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (JetPilot)
5. 07:21 PM - New M3X Flies ! (ces308)
6. 07:33 PM - Re: New M3X Flies ! (John Hauck)
7. 07:41 PM - Re: New M3X Flies ! (robert bean)
8. 07:58 PM - Re: New M3X Flies ! (JetPilot)
9. 08:04 PM - Re: New M3X Flies ! (ces308)
Message 1
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Hi All,
Anybody not interested in this very off topic piece please hit the delete
key and accept my apologies. I wrote it in response to a request from Russ
but after putting all the effort into it I thought that there may be a few
listers who might be interested as well.
When and where did you fly the Mustang? How many hours?>>
Hi Russ,
a bit of a cheat really. 1 whole hour in a P51D called `Crazy Horse`. She
is often seen around the show circuit in the US and in photos and films.
She is one of half a dozen or so Mustangs that have been cut about to make a
twin seater and I flew her out of Kissimmee with pilot Lee Lauderbeck.
We had a briefing and discussed what flying I had done, nearly all gliding
at that point, and what I wanted to do.
Got strapped in and Lee said "We will just wake up the Merlin" He ran
through the checks and said "Go on then ,take her out"
I knew nothing about taxying a `real` plane except swinging the nose so that
I could see where we were going but I managed to get to the runway without
standing her on her nose or hitting anything.
Lee lined her up, locked the tailwheel and opened the throttle. Acceleration
was terrific. Lee held her down until we were at the end of the runway and
then pulled her straight up. I could see the numbers get smaller in the rear
view mirror. We ran out of steam and we fell off on one wing and Lee said
"She`s all yours". I managed to get sorted out and we climbed to about
10,000 ft where Lee made me do some increasingly steep turns. Interesting,
but no trouble after circling in thermals steeply banked at 5 knots above
the stall with a dozen other gliders within a couple of hundred yards.
Lee then let me loose to do whatever I wanted. I, naturally went off looking
for Germans, whipping along the cloud tops and banking hard to surprise some
lurking square head hiding behind a pillar of cloud. Great Stuff.! Why don`t
they fit a gun sight?
Then he talked me through some aero`s. Loops, rolls, hammerheads, pushing
hard all the time. As soon as one manouvre was finished it was straight into
another. Halfway through a Cuban, diving down inverted, he said "You do the
second half" I rolled the right way up and pulled up into the loop . I had
never done anything like it before except a gentle chandelle in a glider.
Height is too hard won in a glider to throw away doing aerobats.
We came down in a long dive and I commenced a ground level beat up for a few
miles before popping up to circuit height when we got back to Kissimmee.
Lee talked me round the circuit lowering the flaps and undercart and dealing
with the radio for me. He talked me through the approach and I managed to
put her down reasonably. He then took over and opened the throttle turning
it into a touch and go. Then he let me fly another circuit without
prompting, taking over just before we touched down.
I taxied in feeling like Douglas Bader and Gabby Zabreski rolled into one.
Without doubt the flying highlight of my life.
I really don`t know how much input Lee put into the flying. I certainly
didn`t detect any but I just can`t believe I did it all myself.#
I forgot to mention that there was a camera mounted high on the tailplane,
facing forward, which took video of the plane and the forward horizon, and
one camera in the cockpit taking pictures of me looking alternately ecstatic
and terrified and feeling sick.. Unfortunately when I flew through cloud
water droplets had collected on the lens of the fin mounted camera which
reduced the sharpness of the picture considerably.
If I remember correctly the hour cost me around 1500. A hell of a lot of
money and I now find it difficult to see how I could possible have done it
at the time. But there is the video and on the wall of my study is a nice
framed picture of a Mustang` on which Lee Lauderbeck has written `To PJ.
Nice job flying Crazy Horse` So it must be true.
I reckon that I have made two real value for money purchases in my life. One
was spending $3 with Exchange and Mart on a book on how to play the piano.
Flying Crazy Horse was the other.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
Clearing an 80 foot obstacle and stoping in less than 600 foot sounds pretty
damn good to me!
I have a 600 foot strip with one open end, and I never consider coming in
from the end with the trees.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, N616DR
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bickham" <gearbender@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Dumb short short landing technique question
>
> I have a what may seem like a dumb question regarding really short
> landings. I've been pushing myself to try to land as short as I can. I
> find it a challenge to control the speed at minimum and achieve a decent
> landing with minimum ground roll. I consider myself barely an average
> aviator and have the history to prove it.
>
> I'm down to landing in less than 600 ft over a +80 foot obstacle on grass.
> One of the problems is the steep approach at minimum speed and timing the
> flare. Gusting winds don't help. I think what is happening is the wing
> and flaps are blocking the air at the abrupt flare and robbing some
> elevator authority making things kinda ugly at times. My next move is to
> try a little shot of power to put some air on the elevator for authority.
>
> I liken this to a bird landing on a wire and missing the wire. Interested
> in learning others techniques and suggestions. Don't want to insult
> anyone, but would like to avoid VG's being the answer. Technique should
> be the same to achieve best result with or without VG's. Sorry bout that.
>
> Again, this is pushing my abilities. I may have reached my personal
> limits based on my limited ability.
>
> --------
> Thanks too much,
>
> John Bickham
> Mark III-C w/ 912UL
> St. Francisville, LA
>
> Landing a plane and being married - a few smooth moments mixed with a lot
> of rough ones.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239655#239655
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
16:38:00
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
rowedenny
> Clearing an 80 foot obstacle and stoping in less than 600 foot sounds pretty
damn good to me! I have a 600 foot strip with one open end, and I never consider
coming in
> from the end with the trees.
>
> Denny Rowe, Mk-3, N616DR
>
I agree. Anyone that land inside 600 feet over an 80' obstacle is doing pretty
good. I have found the shortest landings are power off landings coming in at
best glide speed. Anything less than that can ruin a set of landing gear if the
flare timing is off.
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
22 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
1 year flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239676#239676
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
John, Your technique sounds good, if you are coming in 80 feet over the trees
and stopping in 600 feet, you are doing very well. You are correct to worry about
gusty winds when doing this, a gust that puts you below stall or even right
near stall in the flare could result in an accident or very hard landing with
damage to your plane. In commercial aviation we approach at higher speeds
when the wind is gusty.
You knew the obvious answer to this question, so I have to ask you why do you want
to avoid using VG's ? You must think there is some downside to them if you
want to avoid something that could improve your short field and landing performance
so much. Given the short fields you fly out of, VG's would be a huge
help, not just on the wings, but also on the horizontal tail will keep your elevator
working during the minimum speed flare you are talking about. Everything
you are talking about, your plane will do much better with VG's. If you think
you might not like them, put them on with double sided auto trim tape and
try them, that way if you don't like the results some mineral spirits and time
will get them right off. For just over 100 bucks, and a half a days work, you
can do something that has the potential to increase your planes performance
by a huge margin, and if you don't like it, you can easily get them off. Bargains
like that don't come along often.
Short field operations without VG's is kind of like a NASCAR driver wanting to
race with cheap economy tires, all the driving technique in the world will not
be able to make up for the lack of proper equipment.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239697#239697
Message 5
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Hello all,
Well, it's been a long winter ,but today it paid off.I finally was able to fly
my new M3X this evening and she flies GREAT ! Very smooth,quiet,responsive and
hands off ! I couldn't be happier with the airplane ! Check out the picture
!
chris ambrose
M3X / Jabiru A-2200
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239829#239829
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/first_flight_203.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New M3X Flies ! |
> Well, it's been a long winter ,but today it paid off.I finally was able
to fly my new M3X this evening and she flies GREAT ! Very
smooth,quiet,responsive and hands off ! I couldn't be happier with the
airplane ! Check out the picture !
>
> chris ambrose
Great!
Congratulations!
Good luck with your new Kolb.
Get the 40 hours flown off and head west to Monument Valley next month.
john h
mkIII
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New M3X Flies ! |
It must have been a big day! What part of the USA are you located?
BB
On 17, Apr 2009, at 10:19 PM, ces308 wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Well, it's been a long winter ,but today it paid off.I finally was
> able to fly my new M3X this evening and she flies GREAT ! Very
> smooth,quiet,responsive and hands off ! I couldn't be happier with
> the airplane ! Check out the picture !
>
> chris ambrose
> M3X / Jabiru A-2200
> N327CS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239829#239829
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/first_flight_203.jpg
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New M3X Flies ! |
That is awesome !!! I don't think anyone will have any trouble recognizing your
Kolb, it is very distinctive :) Congratulations on an uneventful first flight,
to have it all trimmed up and flying hands off on the first flight is quite
an accomplishment. I look forward to seeing your performance numbers when you
get more flights on your plane.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239836#239836
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New M3X Flies ! |
Thank you all ! I am in the upper mid Michigan. I would love to join you guys
at MV some day. Hope to see some of you in the future !
chris ambrose
m3x-jabiru
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239838#239838
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