Kolb-List Digest Archive

Mon 04/20/09


Total Messages Posted: 49



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:35 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (Tony Oldman)
     2. 01:33 AM - Re: One Thing At A Time (David Lucas)
     3. 04:08 AM - Driving to Sun-N-Fun (Fredrick Kerfoot)
     4. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (robert bean)
     5. 05:59 AM - Re: One Thing At A Time (lucien)
     6. 06:23 AM - Re: One thing at a time (william sullivan)
     7. 06:32 AM - Re: Kolb List Re: q (pj.ladd)
     8. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (John Hauck)
     9. 06:35 AM - Re: Kolb List Re: q (pj.ladd)
    10. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Wandering Wench is on her way (russ kinne)
    11. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: One thing at a time (John Hauck)
    12. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (pj.ladd)
    13. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (Herb)
    14. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (Herb)
    15. 07:08 AM - Kolb List Re: q (ces308)
    16. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (John Hauck)
    17. 07:13 AM - Re: One Thing At A Time (lucien)
    18. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (K I)
    19. 07:17 AM - Re: One thing at a time (william sullivan)
    20. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (John Hauck)
    21. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (K I)
    22. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (John Hauck)
    23. 07:35 AM - Re: One Thing At A Time (lucien)
    24. 07:42 AM - Re: One Thing At A Time (lucien)
    25. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (John Hauck)
    26. 08:40 AM - Re: One Thing At A Time (lucien)
    27. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (Mike Welch)
    28. 09:58 AM - Re: One Thing At A Time (JetPilot)
    29. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (pj.ladd)
    30. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (pj.ladd)
    31. 12:02 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: q (pj.ladd)
    32. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (John Hauck)
    33. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (pj.ladd)
    34. 12:10 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: q (John Hauck)
    35. 12:35 PM - Make One Change At A Time, Then Test Fly (John Hauck)
    36. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (pj.ladd)
    37. 12:38 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: q (pj.ladd)
    38. 01:17 PM - traveling (william sullivan)
    39. 01:47 PM - Re: Kolb List Re: q (John Hauck)
    40. 01:54 PM - Re: traveling (John Hauck)
    41. 02:53 PM - Re: One Thing At A Time (lucien)
    42. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time ()
    43. 05:17 PM - Re: One Thing At A Time (JetPilot)
    44. 05:26 PM - Fw: monofloat (chris davis)
    45. 05:41 PM - Fw: momofloat (chris davis)
    46. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: One Thing At A Time (John Hauck)
    47. 06:32 PM - Kolb crash yesterday (Dana Hague)
    48. 07:20 PM - Re: CHT Probe-Attachment/Breakage (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
    49. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (possums)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:35:37 AM PST US
    From: "Tony Oldman" <aoldman@xtra.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    While I can not give any advise on 912 engines I believe I can on 503s. Over oiling the air filter will reduce RPM. I wash the filters in warm soapy water or KNL cleaning solution and let dry in the sun. I do not put any oil on them. When its time to change the plugs its also time to clean the air filters. .Over oiled filters will leave tell tail splotchs of oil on the tail plane and shortly after that you may notice a reluctance to reach full RPM on take off. Removal of the filters at this stage and it feels like you have been turbo charged. Regards Tony Downunder MK111c 503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:31 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One Thing At A Time > > > John Hauck wrote: >> Something I temporarily forgot. When test making changes and test >> flying, >> make one change at a time, then go fly to see what the results are. I >> didn't do that yesterday. >> >> My new Warp Drive Blades had a little edge of black paint left when the >> masking tape was pulled off the nickle leading edges. I did my initial >> pitch adjustments with this tiny ridge of paint. My rpm at WOT straight >> and >> level indicated I was pitched a little bit light, 5,600 rpm. >> >> I did three things to my airplane before I test flew it again: >> >> 1-Sanded and feathered the edge even with the trailing edge of the nickle >> leading edge. >> >> 2-Cleaned and reoiled the K&N air filters. >> >> 3-Adjusted the covers on my conical K&N filters to stand off about an >> inch >> rather than the original stock 1/2 inch. >> >> Was rather surprised on takeoff, my climb rpm was only 5200 rather than >> 5400. Also surprised when my max rpm had dropped to 5,500 rpm WOT >> straight >> and level flight. >> >> Got an idea cleaning up the ridge of paint on the blades may have >> increased >> their bite. >> >> Don't know if the air filter cleaning/reoiling or the change in air >> filter >> cover standoff pulled power off the engine. Hope that is not the case. >> >> On the other hand, it is hard to believe that tiny ridge of paint would >> have >> that much effect on its performance, but I think it did. >> >> john h >> mkIII - Getting ready for Lakeland and Monument Valley. > > > I've added and taken off leading edge tape and foil on quit a few props > over the years and never noticed any change in the performance. Those were > IVOs, wood props and powerfins mostly tho. Could make a difference on the > WD, I'm only on my second one. > > Oiling K&N's tho, has given me positively scary results ;). I never > developed the trick to what's the right amount of oil, so I oil extremely > lightly or not at all to avoid the plugged filter syndrome at that worst > possible time. > > Dennis Kirby flew out to KSAF this am and we finally shook hands and > talked planes, props and flying for a bit. The NM posse is in formation. > Dennis is going to invite the Belin trikers to come along too which would > be positively neat. I'm going to call the owner of the other Titan on our > field this week and see if he wants to go too. > Former partner in my titan may go in his RV-6A, tho he'll be a lone wolf > at his speeds.... > > Still waiting on my vacation grant from work, I'm guardedly optimistic > that I'll get it but then again in this economy I may not be in a good > position to fight back if I get turned down. > I'm planning to go meanwhile. > > The likely gathering spots for the NM posse are either Double Eagle > airport or Gallup at this point. > > LS > > -------- > LS > Titan II SS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240150#240150 > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:33:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "David Lucas" <d_a_lucas@hotmail.com>
    Can remember, years ago, where someone dimpled the camber face of his prop blade much like a golf ball has dimples in it and got a slight increase in performance together with about 100 RPM increase at a given power setting. Just dug out the notes I had on it (sorry no photo's); The dimples were centered on the face of the propeller at the peak of the camber of the prop blade, 3 rows .5 inches apart. The dimples were staggered on 3/4 inch center. Diameter and depth of dimple did not not seem too critical. He used a diameter of approximately .200 by .100 deep. Also; Wicks Aircraft Supply (1-800-221-9425) Part number 259-200 for homebuilt vortelator kit for the prop is one option that allows you to try similar technology without drilling holes in your wood propeller. This modification benefits props that are less than ideally efficient. This info is a bit old, so part No's etc might have changed. David. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240241#240241


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:08:25 AM PST US
    From: Fredrick Kerfoot <fredkt46@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Driving to Sun-N-Fun
    If you are planning to drive to the Sun-N-Fun best pack a lunch. The manag ement of the of the Sun-N-Fun in their never-ending=2C undying and limitles s greed have decided to once again charge for parking. ($5.00 per vehicle p er day or $20.00 for the week) In years past this fleecing of the flock ha s resulted in traffic delays of well over a hour. The individual at the re gistration desk assured me "this time it would be different" because there would be three people at the gate grabbing the cash. (Did I mention it is C ASH only?) Yeah I've seen that tried before too. Oh well=2C perhaps the e ver diminishing attendance will help to mitigate the delays. Geez=2C the n ext thing you know they will be charging landing and tie down fees. Those old boys sure know how to beat a dying horse. Fred K p.s. I don't think there will be any need for me to buy a we ek pass. _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_ Mobile2_042009


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:39:05 AM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    I do have a K&N filter on my solex but consider it to be mostly a bug screen too. Probably needs a debugging this spring. K&N advertises aftermarket intake filter kits in all the car mags. predicting X amount of increased hp which is a lot of BS. In most cases the factory big box type filter has been engineered to get as good as you will get. Any perceived benefit from the K&N is just that.... perceived, like how you swear your engine now runs smoother after that oil change. -not. BB On 20, Apr 2009, at 3:34 AM, Tony Oldman wrote: > > While I can not give any advise on 912 engines I believe I can on > 503s. Over oiling the air filter will reduce RPM. > I wash the filters in warm soapy water or KNL cleaning solution and > let dry in the sun. I do not put any oil on them. When its time to > change the plugs its also time to clean the air filters. .Over > oiled filters will leave tell tail splotchs of oil on the tail > plane and shortly after that you may notice a reluctance to reach > full RPM on take off. Removal of the filters at this stage and it > feels like you have been turbo charged. > > Regards > Tony > Downunder > MK111c > 503 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:31 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One Thing At A Time > > >> >> >> John Hauck wrote: >>> Something I temporarily forgot. When test making changes and >>> test flying, >>> make one change at a time, then go fly to see what the results >>> are. I >>> didn't do that yesterday. >>> >>> My new Warp Drive Blades had a little edge of black paint left >>> when the >>> masking tape was pulled off the nickle leading edges. I did my >>> initial >>> pitch adjustments with this tiny ridge of paint. My rpm at WOT >>> straight and >>> level indicated I was pitched a little bit light, 5,600 rpm. >>> >>> I did three things to my airplane before I test flew it again: >>> >>> 1-Sanded and feathered the edge even with the trailing edge of >>> the nickle >>> leading edge. >>> >>> 2-Cleaned and reoiled the K&N air filters. >>> >>> 3-Adjusted the covers on my conical K&N filters to stand off >>> about an inch >>> rather than the original stock 1/2 inch. >>> >>> Was rather surprised on takeoff, my climb rpm was only 5200 >>> rather than >>> 5400. Also surprised when my max rpm had dropped to 5,500 rpm >>> WOT straight >>> and level flight. >>> >>> Got an idea cleaning up the ridge of paint on the blades may have >>> increased >>> their bite. >>> >>> Don't know if the air filter cleaning/reoiling or the change in >>> air filter >>> cover standoff pulled power off the engine. Hope that is not the >>> case. >>> >>> On the other hand, it is hard to believe that tiny ridge of paint >>> would have >>> that much effect on its performance, but I think it did. >>> >>> john h >>> mkIII - Getting ready for Lakeland and Monument Valley. >> >> >> I've added and taken off leading edge tape and foil on quit a few >> props over the years and never noticed any change in the >> performance. Those were IVOs, wood props and powerfins mostly tho. >> Could make a difference on the WD, I'm only on my second one. >> >> Oiling K&N's tho, has given me positively scary results ;). I >> never developed the trick to what's the right amount of oil, so I >> oil extremely lightly or not at all to avoid the plugged filter >> syndrome at that worst possible time. >> >> Dennis Kirby flew out to KSAF this am and we finally shook hands >> and talked planes, props and flying for a bit. The NM posse is in >> formation. Dennis is going to invite the Belin trikers to come >> along too which would be positively neat. I'm going to call the >> owner of the other Titan on our field this week and see if he >> wants to go too. >> Former partner in my titan may go in his RV-6A, tho he'll be a >> lone wolf at his speeds.... >> >> Still waiting on my vacation grant from work, I'm guardedly >> optimistic that I'll get it but then again in this economy I may >> not be in a good position to fight back if I get turned down. >> I'm planning to go meanwhile. >> >> The likely gathering spots for the NM posse are either Double >> Eagle airport or Gallup at this point. >> >> LS >> >> -------- >> LS >> Titan II SS >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240150#240150 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:59:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: > I do have a K&N filter on my solex but consider it to be mostly a bug > screen too. > Probably needs a debugging this spring. > K&N advertises aftermarket intake filter kits in all the car mags. > predicting X amount of increased hp > which is a lot of BS. In most cases the factory big box type filter > has been engineered to get as good as > you will get. Any perceived benefit from the K&N is just that.... > perceived, like how you swear your > engine now runs smoother after that oil change. -not. > BB > Don't want to get into a K&N bash fest, but truth is the unoiled filter is perfectly adequate for our needs as we generally don't run our motors on the ground for long periods of time. Mostly we're up in the clean air. Oiling is a black art the first few times you do it and making a mistake those first couple of times till you get the hang of it can be very expensive and possibly painful. I practically never oil mine for that reason as I'd rather be assured the fan keeps turning after cleaning and installation. Without the oil they still filter quite well, certainly well enough for our needs. First annual I did on my plane was with an AnP over at Los Alamos, NM. Anyone who's flown in there knows your only choice for departure involves a 500' or deeper cliff right off the east end of the runway into a giant canyon (with who-knows-what buried down there from activities of LANL). No way I was going to blast off from there with freshly oiled filters so we left em dry (and they stayed that way till I replaced them)..... Finally, do use the K&N solvent for cleaning, tho. A regular solvent will eventually damage the element.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240255#240255


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:23:15 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: One thing at a time
    - Lucien- Please correct me if I'm wrong.- A friend with extensive 2-st roke knowledge told me that oiling the K&N filter is generally unnecessary because a 2-stroke at idle will "chuff" back into the filter, leaving oil. -This would not apply to 2-strokes with a reed valve. -If run at low sp eeds for a while it will become over oiled.- If oiled as per spec, and th en run at low speed, it can cause noticable loss of power.- He said what you said- for our usage, clean and don't oil.--Would you agree with thi s? - ------------------------- --------------------- Bill Sulliv an ------------------------- --------------------- Windsor Loc ks, Ct. ------------------------- --------------------- FS 447


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:32:25 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb List Re: q
    get a ride in the EAA's B-17.I>> I saw a B17 and a Liberator during a tour they did of Florida some years ago. One of the guys doing the tour in the B17 had done a few ops. and as I was able to identify a `G` and knew they had been basesd in Framlingham in the UK he recognised a fellow flyer and he was obviously relieved to be able to talk to someone who had at least an inkling what it was all about. A visitor walking through the fuselage stopped and tapped the alloy skin and said `Is that all you had to keep the bullets out?` The crewmans eyes rolled in his head and his eyebrows crawled up his forehead but very professionally he said "Thats just to keep the weather out,Sir" Then he caught my eye and we both creased up. Pat


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:34:32 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    Lucien/Gang: My experience and opinions only. I don't know where you have been flying, but there isn't any clean air, even if it looks clean. I would not consider operating my engine without the K&N filter oiled. > Don't want to get into a K&N bash fest, but truth is the unoiled filter is perfectly adequate for our needs as we generally don't run our motors on the ground for long periods of time. Mostly we're up in the clean air. You just think "we're up in the clean air." Short local flights will probably not give you a real indication of how much dirt that little gold plated engine is injesting, but do an 8 hour flight day and you will be amazed at the amount of crude that collects on the leading edges of everything. What you don't see when flying is what can hurt you. > Oiling is a black art the first few times you do it and making a mistake those first couple of times till you get the hang of it can be very expensive and possibly painful. I'm not an expert at cleaning and oiling K&N air filters, so I usually over oil. I also clean them with gasoline. I think it does a better job, is quicker, and a lot less expensive. I have never seen gasoline damage cotton. I have never had an engine problem because of a K&N oil filter that was over oiled. > I practically never oil mine for that reason as I'd rather be assured the > fan keeps turning after cleaning and installation. Without the oil they > still filter quite well, certainly well enough for our needs. I wouldn't buy an engine if I new it had been operated without an adequate air filter. Again, I am not going to gamble on the life of my engine by not oiling the filter. In addition to the airplane, I also use oiled cotton and oiled foam rubber air filter elements on my ATV and dirt bike. Without the "correct" oil, they probably would not last all day. There is a difference between the oil used for cotton and foam elements. Best not get them mixed up. Seems the oil for foam elements is quite sticky and thicker than oil used for cotton. > Finally, do use the K&N solvent for cleaning, tho. A regular solvent will > eventually damage the element.... Again, my own experience and opinions only. john h mkIII


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:35:11 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb List Re: q
    (I think a "D" version). If I remember, it was $3,200 an hour for the P-51. Check their web site. I couldn't afford a flight in any of them,>> Hi Bill, allowing for general price increase that would jibe OK with my =A31500. Yes it was a "D". No,I couldn`t afford it either but it seems cheap now. Pat


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:44:05 AM PST US
    From: russ kinne <russ@rkiphoto.com>
    Subject: Re: Wandering Wench is on her way
    Have fun, all the best, fair winds Russ


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:47:23 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: One thing at a time
    Bill S: Far as I know, most two and four stroke engines experience what I call "fuel vapor stand off". That is a little fuel vapor cloud that sits a couple inches off the mouth of the carb. I discovered this when I was a kid experimenting (playing) with the B&S engine on my Dads lawn mower. My 1935 Ford pickup did the same thing. My 447 and my 912 engines do it too. That is where a lot of excess oil is coming from on two strokes that are configured with the air filters/carbs positioned perpendicular to the air stream. Wind blows that little cloud of fuel vapor out of the filter. My 912 K&N filters are red after oiling, but will be blue the next time I pull them for cleaning and oiling. Why, lots of blue dye in 100LL. How does the air filter get satuarated with this dye when there is constant vacuum pulling air from outside to inside? If you all think you do not need to oil your K&N filters, that is your business. Personally, I think K&N engineers know a lot more about their filters than the average man on the street. Most all the sand rails, dune buggies, and atv's I ran into in the dunes of California, Arizona, and Nevada, use oiled cotton air filter elements, either K&N or some of the newer names or air filter producers. Doubt you'll see any of those filters run dry. john h mkIII Lucien- Please correct me if I'm wrong. A friend with extensive 2-stroke knowledge told me that oiling the K&N filter is generally unnecessary because a 2-stroke at idle will "chuff" back into the filter, leaving oil. This would not apply to 2-strokes with a reed valve. If run at low speeds for a while it will become over oiled. If oiled as per spec, and then run at low speed, it can cause noticable loss of power. He said what you said- for our usage, clean and don't oil. Would you agree with this? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:52:20 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    Sensenich,wood,W58djl44---ae9623..>> Hi Chris, what does that mean in feet and inches or even centimetres? My reprt of 10knot climb at 50mph should have been 1000ft per min. Pat


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:03:03 AM PST US
    From: Herb <herbgh@nctc.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    Pat Not Chris...but in front of the puter now... 58 inches in dia... 44 inch pitch... Sensenich makes super props... been doing it for a long time...not sure about the ae9623... Herb At 08:52 AM 4/20/2009, you wrote: > >Sensenich,wood,W58djl44---ae9623..>> > >Hi Chris, >what does that mean in feet and inches or even centimetres? > >My reprt of 10knot climb at 50mph should have been 1000ft per min. > >Pat > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >04/19/09 20:04:00


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:03:24 AM PST US
    From: Herb <herbgh@nctc.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    What are you swinging Pat? Herb At 08:52 AM 4/20/2009, you wrote: > >Sensenich,wood,W58djl44---ae9623..>> > >Hi Chris, >what does that mean in feet and inches or even centimetres? > >My reprt of 10knot climb at 50mph should have been 1000ft per min. > >Pat > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >04/19/09 20:04:00


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:08:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kolb List Re: q
    From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
    A "G" model 17 has the chin turret .When I took the ride in it ,all I could think of is the fact that they were in these airplanes for 8-10 hrs a time ,at deafening levels of sound and bullets flying through it...it was an incredibly awe inspiring experience .If you can ever get the chance...TAKE IT ! chris ambrose m3x-jab Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240277#240277


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:09:47 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    > My reprt of 10knot climb at 50mph should have been 1000ft per min. > > Pat Thought you all might do it different over there. john h mkIII


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:13:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    John Hauck wrote: > > You just think "we're up in the clean air." Short local flights will > probably not give you a real indication of how much dirt that little gold > plated engine is injesting, but do an 8 hour flight day and you will be > amazed at the amount of crude that collects on the leading edges of > everything. What you don't see when flying is what can hurt you. > It's not where you go, it's how long you're up. The acid test is pulling the filter after a period of running time and seeing if anything has collected on the inside. I.e. if you drag a finger along the inner part of the filter and it leaves a little road in some dust, then you have a leak or the element is letting dirt in. I've run the K&N's for about a decade and many 100's of hours without oiling and have never seen anything other than a completely clean filter on the inside. Damage to the element due to using the wrong solvent (i.e. any kind of kerosene) will give you telltale little bits of white stuff on the inside of the filter. > > I'm not an expert at cleaning and oiling K&N air filters, so I usually over > oil. I also clean them with gasoline. I think it does a better job, is > quicker, and a lot less expensive. I have never seen gasoline damage > cotton. I have never had an engine problem because of a K&N oil filter that > was over oiled. > I have had trouble and in the most notable case was extremely lucky that the plane was a slow one and I had plenty of runway left. Rich running and low power is another common result I've had before I finally decided not to use the oil anymore. Never again for me. > > Again, I am not going to gamble on the life of my engine by not oiling the > filter. In addition to the airplane, I also use oiled cotton and oiled foam > rubber air filter elements on my ATV and dirt bike. Without the "correct" > oil, they probably would not last all day. > > There is a difference between the oil used for cotton and foam elements. > Best not get them mixed up. Seems the oil for foam elements is quite sticky > and thicker than oil used for cotton. > The hazard from over oiling is far, far greater than not oiling the filter and being assured of good airflow and correct mixture. Again, it has not been my experience that the K&N doesn't work adequately without oiling but it definitely has been my experience that an over oiled filter is extremely dangerous and the greater of two evils. How well the filter is functioning is easy to verify by pulling it on a regular basis and checking the inside, and I've never observed a problem anywhere I've flown any of my engines. My experience and opinions only as well, LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240279#240279


    Message 18


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    Time: 07:13:52 AM PST US
    From: K I <wrk2win4u@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    Regarding filtering =93clean air=94=3B I agree with most everything John ha s posted. Where I differ from John is=3B I don=92t like to use gasoline for anything except the fuel tank I bought my diesel truck new in =9396. When it was time to change the air c leaner=2C I replaced it with a K&N. The filter has been used for over 120K miles=2C (12 years) and is in great condition. Yes=2C it can be costly to clean and oil filters. All of my vehicles and tr actor now have K&N filters. I have used paint thinner as a cleaning solvent for the filters. This breaks down the oil and releases the gathered gunk. It does not appear to harm the filter fibers at all. Use a regular pump bot tle you can buy at Wal-Mart to apply the thinner. Then wash the filter in a dish soap/warm water solution. Allow it to dry before applying the oil. I buy the genuine K&N oil from an online auto parts distributor in the 1 gall on container. If you warm the oil before applying it=2C it will move throug h the pump easier and will permeate the filter. Just an opinion of a reader of the list. I am still looking for MY KOLB. Kurt Sandy=2C Utah > From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: One Thing At A Time > Date: Mon=2C 20 Apr 2009 08:34:21 -0500 > > > Lucien/Gang: > > My experience and opinions only. > > I don't know where you have been flying=2C but there isn't any clean air =2C even > if it looks clean. > > I would not consider operating my engine without the K&N filter oiled. > > > Don't want to get into a K&N bash fest=2C but truth is the unoiled filt er > is perfectly adequate for our needs as we generally don't run our motors on > the ground for long periods of time. Mostly we're up in the clean air. > > You just think "we're up in the clean air." Short local flights will > probably not give you a real indication of how much dirt that little gold > plated engine is injesting=2C but do an 8 hour flight day and you will be > amazed at the amount of crude that collects on the leading edges of > everything. What you don't see when flying is what can hurt you. > > > Oiling is a black art the first few times you do it and making a mistak e > those first couple of times till you get the hang of it can be very > expensive and possibly painful. > > I'm not an expert at cleaning and oiling K&N air filters=2C so I usually over > oil. I also clean them with gasoline. I think it does a better job=2C is > quicker=2C and a lot less expensive. I have never seen gasoline damage > cotton. I have never had an engine problem because of a K&N oil filter th at > was over oiled. > > > I practically never oil mine for that reason as I'd rather be assured t he > > fan keeps turning after cleaning and installation. Without the oil they > > still filter quite well=2C certainly well enough for our needs. > > I wouldn't buy an engine if I new it had been operated without an adequat e > air filter. > > Again=2C I am not going to gamble on the life of my engine by not oiling the > filter. In addition to the airplane=2C I also use oiled cotton and oiled foam > rubber air filter elements on my ATV and dirt bike. Without the "correct" > oil=2C they probably would not last all day. > > There is a difference between the oil used for cotton and foam elements. > Best not get them mixed up. Seems the oil for foam elements is quite stic ky > and thicker than oil used for cotton. > > > Finally=2C do use the K&N solvent for cleaning=2C tho. A regular solven t will > > eventually damage the element.... > > Again=2C my own experience and opinions only. > > john h > mkIII > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_ Storage2_042009


    Message 19


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    Time: 07:17:29 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: One thing at a time
    - John- I use the K&N pre oiled filter, and I have not had occassion to c lean it.- I don't know if it could be run dry, but I wouldn't.- Where I have run it, it was dusty- including my yard.- I have seen engines (log skidders) destroy their engines in a few hours when somebody ran it without a filter instead of cleaning it.- Seems like the K&N might allow excess oil to be pulled through pretty quickly, as opposed to the felt type used o n a chain saw.- Either way, I think excessive oil would drip off, or get wiped off.- I don't know if it could retain enough oil to clog.- The ol d oil bath filters never seemed to restrict air flow (farm tractor and old trucks).- Could be my friend is full of it- not for the first time, eithe r.- - My problem is probably due to the worn out carb parts, not the filter. - I ordered the parts from Lockwood- should be here this week. - Have a nice time at S&F, and say-hello to-Travis and Dennis for me. - I am holding an order for them until they get back.- - ------------------------- ----------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------Win dsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ----------------------- FS 44 7


    Message 20


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    Time: 07:21:11 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    > > How well the filter is functioning is easy to verify by pulling it on a > regular basis and checking the inside, and I've never observed a problem > anywhere I've flown any of my engines. > > My experience and opinions only as well, > > LS I think one would get a better idea of how much dirt is getting through the filter by checking the inside of the carb and intake manifold, rather than the inside of the filter. john h mkIII


    Message 21


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    Time: 07:21:24 AM PST US
    From: K I <wrk2win4u@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    Regarding filtering =93clean air=94=3B I agree with most everything John ha s posted. Where I differ from John is=3B I don=92t like to use gasoline for anything except the fuel tank I bought my diesel truck new in =9396. When it was time to change the air c leaner=2C I replaced it with a K&N. The filter has been used for over 120K miles=2C (12 years) and is in great condition. Yes=2C it can be costly to clean and oil filters. All of my vehicles and tr actor now have K&N filters. I have used paint thinner as a cleaning solvent for the filters. This breaks down the oil and releases the gathered gunk. It does not appear to harm the filter fibers at all. Use a regular pump bot tle you can buy at Wal-Mart to apply the thinner. Then wash the filter in a dish soap/warm water solution. Allow it to dry before applying the oil. I buy the genuine K&N oil from an online auto parts distributor in the 1 gall on container. If you warm the oil before applying it=2C it will move throug h the pump easier and will permeate the filter. Just an opinion of a reader of the list. I am still looking for MY KOLB. Kurt Sandy=2C Utah > From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: One Thing At A Time > Date: Mon=2C 20 Apr 2009 08:34:21 -0500 > > > Lucien/Gang: > > My experience and opinions only. > > I don't know where you have been flying=2C but there isn't any clean air =2C even > if it looks clean. > > I would not consider operating my engine without the K&N filter oiled. > > > Don't want to get into a K&N bash fest=2C but truth is the unoiled filt er > is perfectly adequate for our needs as we generally don't run our motors on > the ground for long periods of time. Mostly we're up in the clean air. > > You just think "we're up in the clean air." Short local flights will > probably not give you a real indication of how much dirt that little gold > plated engine is injesting=2C but do an 8 hour flight day and you will be > amazed at the amount of crude that collects on the leading edges of > everything. What you don't see when flying is what can hurt you. > > > Oiling is a black art the first few times you do it and making a mistak e > those first couple of times till you get the hang of it can be very > expensive and possibly painful. > > I'm not an expert at cleaning and oiling K&N air filters=2C so I usually over > oil. I also clean them with gasoline. I think it does a better job=2C is > quicker=2C and a lot less expensive. I have never seen gasoline damage > cotton. I have never had an engine problem because of a K&N oil filter th at > was over oiled. > > > I practically never oil mine for that reason as I'd rather be assured t he > > fan keeps turning after cleaning and installation. Without the oil they > > still filter quite well=2C certainly well enough for our needs. > > I wouldn't buy an engine if I new it had been operated without an adequat e > air filter. > > Again=2C I am not going to gamble on the life of my engine by not oiling the > filter. In addition to the airplane=2C I also use oiled cotton and oiled foam > rubber air filter elements on my ATV and dirt bike. Without the "correct" > oil=2C they probably would not last all day. > > There is a difference between the oil used for cotton and foam elements. > Best not get them mixed up. Seems the oil for foam elements is quite stic ky > and thicker than oil used for cotton. > > > Finally=2C do use the K&N solvent for cleaning=2C tho. A regular solven t will > > eventually damage the element.... > > Again=2C my own experience and opinions only. > > john h > mkIII > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_ Mobile2_042009


    Message 22


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    Time: 07:26:01 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    If gasoline were going to damage cotton fiber, seems an air filter for gasoline engines would be made of some other material. I can assure you, the filter element is getting saturated with gasoline the entire time the engine is running. Probably the reason K&N recommends not using gasoline is the danger of fire. And, of course, liability. ;-) What does the Rotax manual say about oiling K&N cotton filters? john h mkIII Regarding filtering =93clean air=94; I agree with most everything John has posted. Where I differ from John is; I don=92t like to use gasoline for anything except the fuel tank Kurt


    Message 23


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    Time: 07:35:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    [quote="williamtsullivan(at)att.n"]Lucien- Please correct me if I'm wrong. A friend with extensive 2-stroke knowledge told me that oiling the K&N filter is generally unnecessary because a 2-stroke at idle will "chuff" back into the filter, leaving oil. This would not apply to 2-strokes with a reed valve. If run at low speeds for a while it will become over oiled. If oiled as per spec, and then run at low speed, it can cause noticable loss of power. He said what you said- for our usage, clean and don't oil. Would you agree with this? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 > [b] My personal experience with the K&N has been that it doesn't need oiling in an aircraft application. Or putting it another way, I'd only oil if I were skilled in the art of just enough but not too much oil. But I'm not and couldn't afford bending metal in the process of learning how. So I don't. All the oil really does is decrease the size of the particulates the element can filter. It still works as a filter without the oil, but it's not as effective on smaller particulates. It has not been my experience that this is a problem in the air (John disagrees with me on this and I fully respect that and don't discount it). Ironically, I don't agree tho that the emissions from the carburettors qualify as proper oiling of the filter tho ;). Yes, the 2-strokes do spit up a fair bit and will eventually goop up the bottom of the filter over time. Mine always did this and I went ahead and cleaned them soon as it started getting kind of oily there. My 912 is even clearing little spots in the bottom of my new filters already after only about 20 or 30 hours of operation, so the 4 strokes spit up a little as well. In a _ground_ application, oiling is IMO necessary. I ran K&N's on my motorcycle for a long time and you really need the extra filtering there. It also so happens to not be hazardous to over oil on a ground-based motor, tho it will make a mess and cause problems for a while unless you pull it, reclean and reoil with less oil. Reed valve 2-strokes spit up a little less than our piston-skirt induction 2-strokes due to the longer duration timing on the induction on those, but they'll still do it a little bit. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240287#240287


    Message 24


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    Time: 07:42:28 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    John Hauck wrote: > > > I think one would get a better idea of how much dirt is getting through the > filter by checking the inside of the carb and intake manifold, rather than > the inside of the filter. > > john h > mkIII I usually drag fingers in the carburettor throat as well as the filter to check for that very thing (i.e. a leak where the filter attaches to the carburettor body. I've seen that happen and didn't catch it until checking the venturis). In fact, I have enough hours on my 2 new K&N's that it's time to go pull them and check them for that already..... so this is a good reminder (I also need to pull my bowls and check those as you suggested too...).... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240289#240289


    Message 25


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    Time: 07:49:37 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    > I usually drag fingers in the carburettor throat as well as the filter to check for that very thing (i.e. a leak where the filter attaches to the carburettor body. I've seen that happen and didn't catch it until checking the venturis). > > In fact, I have enough hours on my 2 new K&N's that it's time to go pull > them and check them for that already..... so this is a good reminder (I > also need to pull my bowls and check those as you suggested too...).... > > LS K&N filters are not 100%. Don't think any of them are. I ran a K&N filter on my Dodge/Cummins only to find out the turbo pulls oil out of the filter and coats the inside of the turbo, blades, and the intercooler. Went back to the stock paper element and have less dirt being pulled through, as I can tell. However, we can't operate with a paper filter when there is a chance we will encounter rain. The K&N does a good job in rain. Not many cross country flights I do not encounter some of the wet stuff. john h mkIII


    Message 26


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    Time: 08:40:40 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    wrk2win4u(at)msn.com wrote: > > Yes C it can be costly to clean and oil filters. All of my vehicles and tractor now have K&N filters. I have used paint thinner as a cleaning solvent for the filters. This breaks down the oil and releases the gathered gunk. It does not appear to harm the filter fibers at all. > A damaged K&N filter element due to using a wrong chemical to clean it is hard to spot and requires a close inspection. The main symptom is shrinking of the cotton - you can see it kind of shrivelled up and pulled away from the screen a bit. If you compare a ruined one next to a new one, you can see what it looks like. You'll sometimes also see microscopic white fibers in small quantities on the inside of the filter. I replace the filters immediately when I see this. Oddly enough, the good aircraft grade solvent will cause the element to shrink up like this and give the fibers syndrome. Kerosene will also ruin the filter... Don't ask me why I know this. I always only use the K&N solvent to clean mine as it's available everywhere and is easy to keep on hand. I havn't tried gasoline but I agree with John that it makes sense that it wouldn't hurt the filter.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240303#240303


    Message 27


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    Time: 08:43:09 AM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    Kolb guys=2C May I ask for a little clarification with regard to filters/oiling=2C etc . My next project to build on my MkIII is my air filter inlet for my turbo charger. I hadn't really considered that I needed to incorporate an oil co ated filter( I considered the filter=2C just NOT the oil part). Maybe I sh ould. So=2C my question is...are we talking about a "foam" filter lightly soake d in oil=2C or "paper" filter lightly soaked in oil? I can't recall seeing any paper type filters oiled. I can think of tons of foam filters soaked in oil=2C though=2C mostly yard equipment with Briggs & Stratton (type) en gines. My thoughts are to use a good foam filter. I hadn't considered including oil=2C but I guess I should. I do agree there's a lot of crap in the air that we sort of overlook (but a filter doesn't). Paper or foam?? Any preference? Which is better? Mike Welch MkIII > From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: One Thing At A Time > Date: Mon=2C 20 Apr 2009 09:48:59 -0500 > > > > > I usually drag fingers in the carburettor throat as well as the filter to > check for that very thing (i.e. a leak where the filter attaches to the > carburettor body. I've seen that happen and didn't catch it until checkin g > the venturis). > > > > In fact=2C I have enough hours on my 2 new K&N's that it's time to go p ull > > them and check them for that already..... so this is a good reminder (I > > also need to pull my bowls and check those as you suggested too...).... > > > > LS > > > K&N filters are not 100%. Don't think any of them are. > > I ran a K&N filter on my Dodge/Cummins only to find out the turbo pulls o il > out of the filter and coats the inside of the turbo=2C blades=2C and the > intercooler. Went back to the stock paper element and have less dirt bein g > pulled through=2C as I can tell. > > However=2C we can't operate with a paper filter when there is a chance we will > encounter rain. The K&N does a good job in rain. Not many cross country > flights I do not encounter some of the wet stuff. > > john h > mkIII > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_ Mobile2_042009


    Message 28


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    Time: 09:58:28 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    I would not run my 912-S without oiling my K&N filters, I clean and oil them every 50 hours or so. While you would not find near as much dirt and dust in the air as you would on the ground, it is most definately there. Remember you are also running much higher power levels and continuous RPM's in the air than on the ground, so even though there is less dust in the air, your engine will suck in at least 4 times as much air as an engine on the ground, which means helps balance the equation... You are getting a lot more dust in the air than you think. Its not just the size of the air passages also, Oil is very efficient at making air particles stick to it, even if the passage is larger, the particle will stay trapped to an oily surface. Thats why oil is great, it does not just depend on air passage size. I only use K&N oil on my filters, and follow their directions. Its not hard, I have done this 4 times on my 912 and also several times on a 447 and never had any problems with my engines not running perfectly after cleaning and oiling. The importance of having a good performing air filter to achieve good engine life is an accepted fact. I would not let an unreasonable fear of over oiling prevent me from having a properly functioning filter ( Oiled in the case of K&N ). Putting to much motor oil the crankcase of an engine can also cause problems, that does not mean I don't put motor oil in the engine at all, it just means I put in the proper amount... Same goes for oil on the K&N air filters. I would read K&N's instructions about the proper way to do it ( which I have done ), and have a well protected and good running engine that has a good chance of maintaining compression and lasting to TBO or beyond. Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240313#240313


    Message 29


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    Time: 11:19:11 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    Thought you all might do it different over there.>> Heh! Heh! Just that my last planes instruments were calibrated in knots. ASI and vario and I forgot. Pat


    Message 30


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    Time: 12:02:48 PM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    What are you swinging Pat? Herb Hi, Wooden GT-2/157/NO 2BLADE HR tips. 157 cms dia. 98cms pitch. Max ground Static 2750 rpm. Thats what it says in the book. Pat


    Message 31


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    Time: 12:02:48 PM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb List Re: q
    A "G" model 17 has the chin turret .When I took the ride in it ,all I could think of is the fact that they were in these airplanes for 8-10 hrs a time ,at deafening levels of sound and bullets flying through it>> That chin turret was I think added because the Germans soon learned that the B-17 gunners couldn`t cover the front and they then launched head on attacks,jinking up or down at the last moment and flying through the formation. Damned scary and brave. Regarding the noise. A few years ago I managed to get on a Lancaster while she taxied and those 4 Merlins and the great props. just outside the pilots position made an incredible din. What it must have been like when she hit full chat for a fully loaded takeoff run defeats the imagination. Pat


    Message 32


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    Time: 12:04:41 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    Mike W/Gang: I'd go with K&N. There's a bunch of them out there in the experimental and ultralight world. Their filter element is woven cotten. A special oil is used to saturate the cotton and make it an efficient air filter. They work great in dry and wet conditions. john h mkIII May I ask for a little clarification with regard to filters/oiling, etc. Mike Welch


    Message 33


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    Time: 12:05:20 PM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    58 inches in dia... 44 inch pitch... Sensenich makes super props... been doing it for a long time...not sure about the ae9623... Herb. Hi, thought I might do the conversion. 61.8 inches dia. 38.5 inch pitch Pat


    Message 34


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    Time: 12:10:47 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb List Re: q
    > That chin turret was I think added because the Germans > > Pat Is this still the Kolb Builders and Flyers List? Or have I picked the wrong channel again? john h mkIII


    Message 35


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    Time: 12:35:00 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Make One Change At A Time, Then Test Fly
    Flew over to Wetumpka Airport to wash my airplane. Remember, yesterday after cleaning and oiling my K&N air filters, power had dropped from 5400 rpm climb out and 5600 rpm WOT straight and level flight, to 5200 and 5500. I had made three changes to the engine that could possibly caused the change, but did not know which one. Now I do. This morning, I was climbing out at 5300 and turning 5600 WOT straight and level. My guess is that over oiling had restricted air flow a little causing a reduction in power, because today she is screaming just where I want it. There is still 100 rpm difference climbing out, but this may be attributed to air temp and density altitude. Who knows. I'm happy. Now it is time to start making my pile of camping gear and clothes in the middle of the living room floor in preparation for departure to Lakeland, Florida, tomorrow. Probably will not leave here until around noon to arrive LAL after 1800 and miss the air show. I'm ready for a little trip and looking forward to seeing all my Kolb friends at Paradise City. john h mkIII


    Message 36


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    Time: 12:35:07 PM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    Hello Mike, here is a picture of the inside... Pretty nice, Is the throttle and trim in the middle a repeat of one at your left hand? Mine has throttle and trim just under the left hand so I can fly right handed with a repeater for a lefthanded co pilot. The trim is forward as far as I can reach. The flaps are operated by a damn great handle which projects from the rear of the cockpit between the pilot and crew. You get used to it but it is a lousy bit of design. Putting up the flaps as you clean up climbing through5/600 feet produces porpoising like a new Spitfire pilot changing hands to operate the u/c. Incidentally a Spitfire was auctioned today at an airfield near me. She went for 1.5 million . I remember when we were collecting to buy a Spitfire at a Wings Week during the war that a Spit. was 5000 and a Lancaster was 25000. I wish I had bought half a dozen at the time. Cheers Pat Pat.


    Message 37


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    Time: 12:38:03 PM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb List Re: q
    Is this still the Kolb Builders and Flyers List? Or have I picked the wrong channel again? Hi John, I knew it would be you!. I was waiting for someone to crack the whip. You are quite right, things have got a bit off topic the last few days. Back to the grindstone. I am also on a Jazz list and there is always someone complaining that we are discussing the wrong things. As no`one can even define jazz you can see that there is a lot of room for argument. Someone said that a List is like a Club bar. Everyone probably has the same basic interest but they are not all discussing the same aspect. If you don`t like what is being discussed in this group, just move further down the bar. Personally I am up to here with `b****y filters and I couldn`t care less if they are foam or paper but I wouldn`t think of saying so. Cheers Pat


    Message 38


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    Time: 01:17:20 PM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: traveling
    - John- What is the weight of all your camping gear, and how do you stow it?- What do you tie it to?- Yesterday's cockpit photo has me wondering . - ------------------------- -------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- -------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- -------------- FS 447


    Message 39


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    Time: 01:47:55 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb List Re: q
    > Personally I am up to here with `b****y filters and I couldn`t care less if > they are foam or paper but I wouldn`t think of saying so. > > Cheers > > Pat I'm sorry you feel that way about air filters. I guess the b****y filters are something you all use over there. Haven't run across any of them over here. I didn't make the rules for the Kolb List. Matt Dralle did. He owns it. I think it is Matt that sends out the operating guidelines each month, not me. I can only speak for myself, one among many. john h mkIII


    Message 40


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    Time: 01:54:15 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: traveling
    Bill S/Gang: My camping gear, clothes, air plane stuff, weighs between 100 and 125 lbs. I have 150 lbs of fuel (25 gal) when I take off. I weigh probably close to 200 lbs fully clothed with a belly full of eggs, bacon, grits, and toast, plus 3 cups of coffee. Dennis Souder said my airplane weighed 630 lbs in 1994. Probably gained some more weight since then. That's about 1100 lbs and my MKIII is placarded for 1200 lbs max gross. I designed my mkIII to fly cross country before we ever started welding the fuselage up. 25 gal aluminum fuel tank up top where the standard MKIII has a large empty space. This opened up the bottom half, normally cluttered up with two 5 gal plastic cans. Most of my gear is stowed in the cargo compartment. I also stow gear under each seat, behind each seat, and up in the nose pod ahead of the rudder pedals. Got a place for everything I need to live out of the mkIII. Nothing gets tied down, it all has its own spot. john h mkIII John- What is the weight of all your camping gear, and how do you stow it? What do you tie it to? Yesterday's cockpit photo has me wondering. Bill Sullivan


    Message 41


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    Time: 02:53:30 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    JetPilot wrote: > I would not run my 912-S without oiling my K&N filters, I clean and oil them every 50 hours or so. While you would not find near as much dirt and dust in the air as you would on the ground, it is most definately there. Remember you are also running much higher power levels and continuous RPM's in the air than on the ground, so even though there is less dust in the air, your engine will suck in at least 4 times as much air as an engine on the ground, which means helps balance the equation... You are getting a lot more dust in the air than you think. > > Its not just the size of the air passages also, Oil is very efficient at making air particles stick to it, even if the passage is larger, the particle will stay trapped to an oily surface. Thats why oil is great, it does not just depend on air passage size. > > I only use K&N oil on my filters, and follow their directions. Its not hard, I have done this 4 times on my 912 and also several times on a 447 and never had any problems with my engines not running perfectly after cleaning and oiling. > > The importance of having a good performing air filter to achieve good engine life is an accepted fact. I would not let an unreasonable fear of over oiling prevent me from having a properly functioning filter ( Oiled in the case of K&N ). Putting to much motor oil the crankcase of an engine can also cause problems, that does not mean I don't put motor oil in the engine at all, it just means I put in the proper amount... Same goes for oil on the K&N air filters. I would read K&N's instructions about the proper way to do it ( which I have done ), and have a well protected and good running engine that has a good chance of maintaining compression and lasting to TBO or beyond. > > Mike Well you know... being as how I'm not afraid to overturn something I've done forever that may still not be the right thing to do...... and how I take what ya'll tell me seriously........ I did run across a good idea for checking for overoiling of the K&N that had never occurred to me. The idea is to check the airflow through the filter with a vacuum. I.e. a small shop vac put over the outlet of the filter can clear out excess oil if overoiled and can give an indication of proper airflow....... I'm going to try that when I do the maint. on my current set of filters. Why not as that's really my only worry with oiling (I don't wish to repeat the overoiling experience I had in my trike for sure)... FWIW, from the reminder by John I did my float bowl check today and happily there was no water or crapola in either one. When I lived in TX, I always found at least a small ball of H2O in the bottom of the bowls when I did this check (usually at 25 to 30 hours or thereabouts). I attribute that to the much drier climate here. LS LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240364#240364


    Message 42


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    Time: 03:41:43 PM PST US
    From: <smlplanet@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    There is one thing I haven't heard mentioned and that is moisture that can be adsorb by the filters if not oiled. -------------------------------------------------- From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> Sent: 2009-04-20 17:53 Subject: Kolb-List: Re: One Thing At A Time > > > JetPilot wrote: >> I would not run my 912-S without oiling my K&N filters, I clean and oil >> them every 50 hours or so. While you would not find near as much dirt >> and dust in the air as you would on the ground, it is most definately >> there. Remember you are also running much higher power levels and >> continuous RPM's in the air than on the ground, so even though there is >> less dust in the air, your engine will suck in at least 4 times as much >> air as an engine on the ground, which means helps balance the equation... >> You are getting a lot more dust in the air than you think. >> >> Its not just the size of the air passages also, Oil is very efficient at >> making air particles stick to it, even if the passage is larger, the >> particle will stay trapped to an oily surface. Thats why oil is great, >> it does not just depend on air passage size. >> >> I only use K&N oil on my filters, and follow their directions. Its not >> hard, I have done this 4 times on my 912 and also several times on a 447 >> and never had any problems with my engines not running perfectly after >> cleaning and oiling. >> >> The importance of having a good performing air filter to achieve good >> engine life is an accepted fact. I would not let an unreasonable fear of >> over oiling prevent me from having a properly functioning filter ( Oiled >> in the case of K&N ). Putting to much motor oil the crankcase of an >> engine can also cause problems, that does not mean I don't put motor oil >> in the engine at all, it just means I put in the proper amount... Same >> goes for oil on the K&N air filters. I would read K&N's instructions >> about the proper way to do it ( which I have done ), and have a well >> protected and good running engine that has a good chance of maintaining >> compression and lasting to TBO or beyond. >> >> Mike > > > Well you know... being as how I'm not afraid to overturn something I've > done forever that may still not be the right thing to do...... and how I > take what ya'll tell me seriously........ > > I did run across a good idea for checking for overoiling of the K&N that > had never occurred to me. The idea is to check the airflow through the > filter with a vacuum. I.e. a small shop vac put over the outlet of the > filter can clear out excess oil if overoiled and can give an indication of > proper airflow....... > > I'm going to try that when I do the maint. on my current set of filters. > Why not as that's really my only worry with oiling (I don't wish to repeat > the overoiling experience I had in my trike for sure)... > > > FWIW, from the reminder by John I did my float bowl check today and > happily there was no water or crapola in either one. When I lived in TX, I > always found at least a small ball of H2O in the bottom of the bowls when > I did this check (usually at 25 to 30 hours or thereabouts). I attribute > that to the much drier climate here. > > LS > LS > > -------- > LS > Titan II SS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240364#240364 > > >


    Message 43


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    Time: 05:17:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    Lucien, The Vacuum test is a really good idea. If there is to much oil in the filter to block it, a strong Vacuum might be enough to clear the filter out to where it should be. A two stroke is much more acceptable to have problems with a richer mixture than a 4 stroke. I have never heard of a 912 losing power because of an over oiled filter. Most people use K&N filters on their 912's , I think if power loss were a big risk due to over oiling, that we would have heard a LOT of reports about this issue on the forums, and Rotax groups over the years. The absence of reports like this on a product that most of us use does indicate its just not a big problem. Now I'm sure if one went and dunked the air filter in a can full of oil and brought it out dripping wet, it would not be great... I just have never heard of oiling the K&N filters being super critical or a dangerous thing. Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240390#240390


    Message 44


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    Time: 05:26:21 PM PST US
    From: chris davis <capedavis@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Fw: monofloat
    Dear Kolb listers, I just inquired to FULL LOTUS to get a replacement cost as you can see below the mono float is not cheap especially the retractable gear $1950. I have , and I brought it to Fla. this year, A Mono 1000 with Sponsons and retractable- landing gear, that came off my Firestar Kxp, I am now building a Firefly and need money I will let it go for $1000 plus 1/ 2 the gas to get it here$125. It is used and one of the 8 bladders is flat it needs work but a new one needs work untill you get it installed on you a ircraft.=0A----- If you want to try an inflatable , Amphibious- , float system $1125 is a lot less risk than $4610! I must sell it this wee k as i need money to get- home ,I will deliver it to Sun& Fun or anywhere in north Fl. or on the coast between Fl and Ma.Email if interested. PS it worked great on my Firestar with a 503 single carb. Thanks Chris=0A=0A=0A-- --- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Info <info@full-lotus.com>=0ATo: chris d avis <capedavis@yahoo.com>=0ASent: Monday, April 20, 2009 1:51:53 PM=0ASubj ect: RE: momofloat=0A=0A=0AHi Chris=0A-=0AThank you for your interest in our products. Below is a price break down for your request:=0A-i=0AMono 1 000------------ $2495.00usd=0A-=0A2 sponson-- ------------$- 165.00usd/pair=0A-=0AAmphibious kit------- $1950.00usd=0A-=0AFront bladder----- ----- $---92.00ea-=0A-=0ARear-------- -------------- $-- 68.00ea=0A-=0A-=0A -=0APlease let me know if you have any further questions.=0AJeffery M. Ho lomis=0APresident Full Lotus Mfg=0ASimolo Customs=0Awww.full-lotus.com=0Aph 250-260-3714=0Afax 250-483-4716 =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: chri s davis [mailto:capedavis@yahoo.com]=0ASent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:56 AM=0ATo: info@full-lotus.com=0ASubject: momofloat=0A=0A=0A =0Afull-Lotus , I am writing for prices ? Mono 1000,with retractable gear and 2 sponsons a lso what are the costs for replaceable air bladders I understand there are 8 ,what are the cost of each one thank you . Chris =0A=0A=0A=0A


    Message 45


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    Time: 05:41:44 PM PST US
    From: chris davis <capedavis@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Fw: momofloat
    Fred I dont know if you could possibly still be interested- but my wife - and I managed to get the Mono float system to a Fl. this year it has a flat bladder maybe 2 but the Sponsons and the retractable gear are there an d with some work it will be flyable and floatableand at 1/4 the cost I thin k its worth the investment if you want to try an inflatable. I am truly sor ry for the lost time but I will deliver it to Sun & Fun if that works for y ou, The sale of it will be the only way I can afford to go this year.! Than ks- Chris=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Info <info@full -lotus.com>=0ATo: chris davis <capedavis@yahoo.com>=0ASent: Monday, April 2 0, 2009 1:51:53 PM=0ASubject: RE: momofloat=0A=0A=0AHi Chris=0A-=0AThank you for your interest in our products. Below is a price break down for your request:=0A-=0AMono 1000------------ $2495.00usd =0A-=0A2 sponson--------------$- 165.00usd/ pair=0A-=0AAmphibious kit------- $1950.00usd=0A-=0AFront bladder---------- $---92.00ea-=0A-=0ARear- --------------------- $-- 68. 00ea=0A-=0A-=0A-=0APlease let me know if you have any further questio ns.=0AJeffery M. Holomis=0APresident Full Lotus Mfg=0ASimolo Customs=0Awww. full-lotus.com=0Aph 250-260-3714=0Afax 250-483-4716 =0A-----Original Messag e-----=0AFrom: chris davis [mailto:capedavis@yahoo.com]=0ASent: Saturday, A pril 18, 2009 6:56 AM=0ATo: info@full-lotus.com=0ASubject: momofloat=0A=0A =0A =0Afull-Lotus , I am writing for prices ? Mono 1000,with retractable g ear and 2 sponsons also what are the costs for replaceable air bladders I u nderstand there are 8 ,what are the cost of each one thank you . Chris =0A=0A=0A=0A


    Message 46


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    Time: 06:20:44 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: One Thing At A Time
    I have never heard of a 912 losing power because of an over oiled filter. > > Mike I just wrote about losing 200 rpm yesterday. Then today my power was back. I attribute that to an over oiled air filter because I have changed nothing else since then. I did fly about 45 minutes, probably enough to clean up the air filter. I did not have a complete loss of power, by any means. Don't believe a two stroke would have been affected by over oiling any more than my 912ULS did. If it did, it would be readily noticeable on take off. Unless you were operating on a very short, tough strip, you would have plenty time to see the reduction in take off power and abort the flight, if necessary. john h mkIII


    Message 47


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    Time: 06:32:17 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Kolb crash yesterday
    http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9013281 -- "Gold cannot always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you gold"-- Niccolo Machiavelli


    Message 48


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    Time: 07:20:13 PM PST US
    From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
    Subject: Re: CHT Probe-Attachment/Breakage
    Ed, Here's the cure! I read about this idea in the EAA UL magazine several years ago. Get a 10 mm size CHT sensor (available from CPS or Lockwood) and place it under one of the 8 mm cylinder head nuts (I used the rear most bolt/nut position on the PTO end, thinking it might be the hottest). It won't give you the same cylinder head temperature that it would under the spark plug (it will read a lower figure), BUT it can be used as a reference to see if your CHT is changing due to a broken fan belt or whatever. And it ends the broken sensor saga. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ In a message dated 4/19/2009 3:41:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DAquaNut@aol.com writes: List, Has anyone figured out a way to keep from ruining the CHT attachment ring under the sparkplug? Mine broke and I would like to keep from replacing it again if at all possible. Any trick to it? Ed Diebel FF 62 ____________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. _See yours in just 2 easy steps!_ www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Aprilfooter 419NO62) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! Aprilfooter420NO62)


    Message 49


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    Time: 07:21:53 PM PST US
    From: possums <possums@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: New M3X Flies !
    At 02:16 PM 4/20/2009, you wrote: > >Thought you all might do it different over there.>> > >Heh! Heh! > >Just that my last planes instruments were calibrated in knots. ASI >and vario and I forgot. > >Pat I thought it was furlongs per fortnight.




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