---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/21/09: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:10 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (pj.ladd) 2. 05:56 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Richard Pike) 3. 06:05 AM - Sun and Fun 2009 (John Hauck) 4. 06:16 AM - Re: Sun and Fun 2009 (N111KX (Kip)) 5. 06:20 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (N111KX (Kip)) 6. 07:08 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (william sullivan) 7. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (Michael Sharp) 8. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: New M3X Flies ! (pj.ladd) 9. 09:17 AM - crash (pj.ladd) 10. 09:21 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Ralph B) 11. 09:48 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Ralph B) 12. 09:52 AM - Re: Sun and Fun 2009 (cristalclear13) 13. 11:03 AM - What diameter are the 4 bolts (16 total) that hold the 4 lord engine mounts on a MKIII? (Jason Omelchuck) 14. 12:17 PM - Dumb short short landing technique question (Jack B. Hart) 15. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 16. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Jack B. Hart) 17. 02:22 PM - Re: What diameter are the 4 bolts (16 total) that hold the 4 lord engine mounts on a MKIII? (Richard Girard) 18. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (robert bean) 19. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Sun and Fun 2009 (zeprep251@aol.com) 20. 04:33 PM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Kirkds) 21. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (russ kinne) 22. 06:59 PM - Re: Sun and Fun 2009 (N111KX (Kip)) 23. 07:52 PM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Richard Pike) 24. 09:03 PM - Ultrastar Reduction Drive (Thumper) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:21 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New M3X Flies ! I thought it was furlongs per fortnight.>> Great!. I never met an American who knew what a fortnight was. How about `rod, pole, perch or lug per sennight` Pat (Still laughing) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday From: "Richard Pike" Ed is doing pretty well and will probably have surgery today to set his leg bones in place if the swelling in his leg has gone down enough. All of us have heard the phrase "He rolled it up into a ball?" Well, this is how a Kolb looks when you do that: notice the integrity of the main cockpit area. And yes - it is rebuildable and we do plan to rebuild it. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) PS: Over the years most everybody - including me- have taken for granted the comparative fragility of Ivoprops. Uh - notice what the tail boom is wrapped around... Currently the prop is the only airworthy thing on the airplane - go figure. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240441#240441 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130318_large_138.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130317_large_131.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130316_large_193.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130315_large_133.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130314_large_109.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130313_large_771.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130312_large_186.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:08 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Sun and Fun 2009 Morning Gang: I'm out the door and headed for Gantt International Airport. Plan to get in the air soonest. Weather guessers are forecasting a wind advisory today all the way to just north of Lakeland, 15 to 25 out of the west. At least I will have a tailwind. Hope to make it to LAL before they close the field for the air show at 1300 EDST. Will be pusing it, but with the wind, I may be able to do it. If not, I'll hang out somewhere until about 1800 EDST to get into Paradise City. See ya'll down there. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:30 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sun and Fun 2009 From: "N111KX (Kip)" I'll be flying down also. Look for the yellow checkerboards..! -------- Kip Firestar II, N111KX Waiex, N111YX Quickie 1, N111QX Atlanta Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240446#240446 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday From: "N111KX (Kip)" Amazing pics. Steel cages are good! -------- Kip Firestar II, N111KX Waiex, N111YX Quickie 1, N111QX Atlanta Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240447#240447 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:17 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday - Ed's crash looks a lot worse than mine.- I hope he is resting comfort ably, and heals up okay.- Give him my best wishes.- Yes, it does look r e-buildable.- Mostly, lots of labor. - "Before" photo's are at www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm - The comments about the steel cage are correct- mine folded about the sa me way.- I barked my shins on the instrument panel, but no other leg dama ge.- I think if I was 20 years younger I wouldn't have taken the back and neck damage (no discs prior to the accident).- How old is Ed? - ------------------------- --------------------- Bill Sulliv an ------------------------- --------------------- Windsor Loc ks, Ct. ------------------------- --------------------- FS 447 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:47 AM PST US From: Michael Sharp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New M3X Flies ! Well, isn't lug to be pulled by the hair or ears, and sennight is celtic fo r 7 nights?- =0A=0ASoooo is it being pulled by your ears for 7 nights???? =0A=0AShhhhhhh- don't tell anyone it's not kolb related.... =0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0AMike=0AMk III C=0AOak Grove Missouri=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________ ___________________=0AFrom: pj.ladd =0ATo: kolb-lis t@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:00:29 AM=0ASubject: Re: K d" =0A=0AI thought it was furlongs per fortnight.>> =0A=0AGreat!.- I never met an American who knew what a fortnight was. =0A How about- `rod, pole, perch or lug per sennight`=0A=0APat (Still laughin =============== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:31 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New M3X Flies ! sennight is celtic for 7 nights? >> Hi Mike, Not Celtic as far as I know. `Sennight` is a shortened form of `seven nights` in the same way that `fortnight` is a shortened form of `fourteen nights`. Now that really is off topic so back in your dorm quickly before the monitor comes round. Its nearly `lights out` Pat ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:50 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: crash glad to hear the pilot is reasonably OK. The pics show the entire tail plane assembly twisted over the top of the wing yet the boom can still be seen pointing aft. Did the end of the boom including the tail snap off? Seems unlikely but the entire tail plane staying together after it had departed the boom seems equally unlikely. Pat ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:49 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday From: "Ralph B" Richard, what do you think might have caused this? Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240486#240486 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:52 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday From: "Ralph B" My heart goes out to Ed. His Kolb was a beauty and maybe he can rebuild it back to its original condition. The sad part is that it didn't need to happen. Beware of landing in tight backyard airstrips. Had the tailwheel not caught on the fence, he would have made it. There have been times where a downdraft pushed me within inches of a powerline landing at small airstrips. Ralph B -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240495#240495 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sun and Fun 2009 From: "cristalclear13" N111KX (Kip) wrote: > I'll be flying down also. > > Look for the yellow checkerboards..! Any chance you'll be stopping by AYS Waycross? -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240497#240497 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:38 AM PST US From: "Jason Omelchuck" Subject: Kolb-List: What diameter are the 4 bolts (16 total) that hold the 4 lord engine mounts on a MKIII? I am away from the airplane and need to know this. I think they are an-3, but I am not sure. Jason ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:53 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: Dumb short short landing technique question > >I have a what may seem like a dumb question regarding really short landings. I've been pushing myself to try to land as short as I can. I find it a challenge to control the speed at minimum and achieve a decent landing with minimum ground roll. I consider myself barely an average aviator and have the history to prove it. > >I'm down to landing in less than 600 ft over a +80 foot obstacle on grass. One of the problems is the steep approach at minimum speed and timing the flare. Gusting winds don't help. I think what is happening is the wing and flaps are blocking the air at the abrupt flare and robbing some elevator authority making things kinda ugly at times. My next move is to try a little shot of power to put some air on the elevator for authority. > >I liken this to a bird landing on a wire and missing the wire. Interested in learning others techniques and suggestions. Don't want to insult anyone, but would like to avoid VG's being the answer. Technique should be the same to achieve best result with or without VG's. Sorry bout that. > >Again, this is pushing my abilities. I may have reached my personal limits based on my limited ability. > John, You may want to consider changing your technique. One can practice steep descents and then apply it to landing. My problem was selecting an alternative landing site and then not being able to get the FireFly down in time and thereby over flying the site. It took a little practice but finally I managed it. I took the FireFly up to about 3,000 feet agl, and applied flaperons, reduced power, and pushed the nose over to see how quickly I was falling out of the sky. I never let the ias get below 50 mph. Then I did the same thing again with a forward slip. It is truly amazing how quickly you can get down and one can vary the rate by pushing the stick forward and increasing the air speed. Once I got used to this, I went back to the airport and practiced flaring at given spot on the runway. The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall speed. It lets you change slope with stick for and backwards motion and to clear an obstacles with out fear of stalling. Just before flaring, you back off the rudder and all power and you are down. FWIW Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:18 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday Richard Inquiring minds want to know. How did the tail get rapped up over the top? I looks like the left wheel might have caught the fence flipping the plane over on the right wing but that doesn't explain how the boom tube got rapped up that way. Did the plane get turned around back wards right side up in the air then landed going backwards?? Any way it must have been a wild ride that last few seconds. Thankfully he wasn't killed. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:55 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday > > Ed is doing pretty well and will probably have surgery today to set his > leg bones in place if the swelling in his leg has gone down enough. > > All of us have heard the phrase "He rolled it up into a ball?" Well, this > is how a Kolb looks when you do that: notice the integrity of the main > cockpit area. > > And yes - it is rebuildable and we do plan to rebuild it. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > > PS: Over the years most everybody - including me- have taken for granted > the comparative fragility of Ivoprops. Uh - notice what the tail boom is > wrapped around... Currently the prop is the only airworthy thing on the > airplane - go figure. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240441#240441 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130318_large_138.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130317_large_131.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130316_large_193.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130315_large_133.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130314_large_109.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130313_large_771.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130312_large_186.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:30 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday At 05:55 AM 4/21/09 -0700, you wrote: > Richard, Some photos. I don't understand how he could have wrapped the tail boom around the wing. It all most looks like it was was rolled over backwards. This does not seem likely if one caught the tail wheel on a fence. Is this after crash damage? Can you fill in the mechanics of the crash? Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What diameter are the 4 bolts (16 total) that hold the 4 lord engine mounts on a MKIII? From: Richard Girard Yep, AN-3's Rick do not archive On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > I am away from the airplane and need to know this. I think they are > an-3, but I am not sure. > > > Jason > > * > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:17 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday Richard, it's the WINGS you are supposed to fold, not the tail. BB On 21, Apr 2009, at 8:55 AM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Ed is doing pretty well and will probably have surgery today to set > his leg bones in place if the swelling in his leg has gone down > enough. > > All of us have heard the phrase "He rolled it up into a ball?" > Well, this is how a Kolb looks when you do that: notice the > integrity of the main cockpit area. > > And yes - it is rebuildable and we do plan to rebuild it. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (42OldPoops) > > PS: Over the years most everybody - including me- have taken for > granted the comparative fragility of Ivoprops. Uh - notice what the > tail boom is wrapped around... Currently the prop is the only > airworthy thing on the airplane - go figure. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240441#240441 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130318_large_138.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130317_large_131.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130316_large_193.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130315_large_133.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130314_large_109.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130313_large_771.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130312_large_186.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Sun and Fun 2009 From: zeprep251@aol.com Just for anyones info, ? Blackwater ultralite airpark is a couple miles south of Zephyhills airport right on highway 39.It has 2300 ' of n/s runway all sod ,and a wash up sink and flush toilet and pop machine.It's 10 min north of LAL,and Mrs.Canon is a sweetheart.I keep the MK3 there all winter,nice people.I'm sure you could overnite there if the need arose. ? G Aman -----Original Message----- From: cristalclear13 Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:50 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sun and Fun 2009 N111KX (Kip) wrote: > I'll be flying down also. > > Look for the yellow checkerboards..! Any chance you'll be stopping by AYS Waycross? -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240497#240497 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday From: "Kirkds" Looks like the main gear caught the fence plunging the nose into the ground. The forward momentum carried the tail over the top as the cage was springing the fusalage back up in the air. A forward flip it came back down on the tail as the fusalage was still going forward through the air over the tail. My understanding was that when help arrived the fusalage was upside down and not as seen in the pics. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240557#240557 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:47 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday FWIW - if the fuselage were indeed upside-down when found, it's one thing. I suspect the tail caught the fence, it bent the boom tube upwards, then the nose dug in, and then the boom tube folded up again and came to rest as in the pix. If the plane were moved before the pix, another theorem. A forward roll does change things. Russ K do not archive On Apr 21, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Kirkds wrote: > > Looks like the main gear caught the fence plunging the nose into > the ground. The forward momentum carried the tail over the top as > the cage was springing the fusalage back up in the air. A forward > flip it came back down on the tail as the fusalage was still going > forward through the air over the tail. My understanding was that > when help arrived the fusalage was upside down and not as seen in > the pics. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240557#240557 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:34 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sun and Fun 2009 From: "N111KX (Kip)" Cristal, it's a bit out of my way but not much. Will you be around tomorrow? Are you headed to SnF? Kip cristalclear13 wrote: > > N111KX (Kip) wrote: > > I'll be flying down also. > > > > Look for the yellow checkerboards..! > > > Any chance you'll be stopping by AYS Waycross? -------- Kip Firestar II, N111KX Waiex, N111YX Quickie 1, N111QX Atlanta Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240596#240596 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:38 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday From: "Richard Pike" Probably should have put this in the original post, but just to help resolve the speculation - There was apparently a wind shear caused both by the local terrain and by a thermal cooking off, but either way - there was a sharp airpseed decay, the tailwheel hit the ground on the wrong side of the fence, but the mains cleared. (Love those VG's...) Hit the fence with the tailwheel, flipped it nose low, hit the grass with the left main first. The fitting where the landing gear leg attaches to the axle broke, the wheel came off, and the gear leg dug in. (Tongue in cheek comment follows:) That was not helpful. (I WILL be talking this over with Travis) When we put it back together, the new fitting will get gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is similar. Fool me once, etc... With the wheel gone off the end of the left gear leg, the leg dug in, and that is probably when the nose hit. Then, as the airplane was spinning around the left gear leg, I think the tail hit next, the airplane having turned 180 degrees and is now going backwards, the tail hit, and the boom folded, and now the airplane rolled up the boom, ending up inverted, with the empennage wrapped around the gap seal. Not sure when or how the right wing was destroyed. Maybe it hit as the airplane spun 180 degrees. Strangest of all, the Ivoprop emerged unscathed! (weird...) Ed is in good spirits, already discussing how we will put it back together, looks like his surgery is now set back a couple of weeks, situation unsure. We are praying for good healing. It will take a while to put the FSII back together, but we are already committed to putting it back together with a goal of 50 pounds lighter, (It was porky, too many bells and whistles) stronger, and better than before. This is all just a speed bump on the road of life. Guys build things. (because God builds things, we imitate Him, we build things) Because we live in a fallen world, we tear stuff up, then we fix it and go on, then we tear it up, and fix it again, and go on. We are guys, that's what we do. Ed and I have talked it over, and it gives us something good to do. Not what we had planned, but so what? Keeps us out of worse mischief... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240615#240615 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:40 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Ultrastar Reduction Drive From: "Thumper" Anyone have parts from a Cuyuna Reduction drive, 2.0 to 1 multi-rib belt. This is for Homers original redrive. I have one with bad excentric shaft and driven hub. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Dennis -------- Dennis Long Oakland TN Kolb Ultrastar Owner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240628#240628 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_1664_164.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.