Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (pj.ladd)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (pj.ladd)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (zeprep251@aol.com)
4. 05:38 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (JetPilot)
5. 06:03 AM - Re: Dumb short landing technique question (Jack B. Hart)
6. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Jack B. Hart)
7. 06:23 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (lucien)
8. 06:35 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (cristalclear13)
9. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Bruce Bixler)
10. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Dumb short landing technique question (Jack B. Hart)
11. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
12. 10:03 AM - Re: Dumb short landing technique question (lucien)
13. 10:35 AM - Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he.. (JetPilot)
14. 11:03 AM - Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he.. (Blumax008@aol.com)
15. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (zeprep251@aol.com)
16. 12:29 PM - Fw: F-15 Accident (russ kinne)
17. 12:32 PM - Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he.. (JetPilot)
18. 01:56 PM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (ces308)
19. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (Mike Welch)
20. 05:18 PM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (ces308)
21. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short landing technique question (possums)
22. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short landing technique question (Jack Day)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Kolb crash yesterday |
This does not seem likely if one caught the tail wheel on a fence.>>
Hi Jack,
I thought that was strange. I did the same thing in a Kranich Glider many
years ago. It was like picking up the third wire with your arrestor hook. we
suddenly lost flying speed, then the fence broke and the glider just fell to
the ground and stood up on the front skid, almost flipped and then fell
back.
With a Kolb with maybe an undercarriage tube sticking into the ground it
could go either way.
Pat
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall
speed. >>
Hi
How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the
airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the
wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect.
With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger
she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the
speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference.
Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly
??
Pat
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
Pat,
? Am I assuming correctly,that a vario is a rate of climb or descent? instrument?
?? Thanks G Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Sent: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 7:24 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dumb short short landing technique question
?
The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall
speed. >>?
?
Hi?
How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the
airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the
wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect.?
With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger
she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the
speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference.?
Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly
???
?
Pat ?
?
?
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Subject: | Re: Kolb crash yesterday |
Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> (I WILL be talking this over with Travis) When we put it back together, the
new fitting will get gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my
MKIII if it is similar. Fool me once, etc...
>
>
That is a very good idea, this is not the first time things have been much worse
than they should have been due to a landing gear breaking. It seems like its
worth the effort and little extra weight to have strong gear.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240677#240677
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short landing technique question |
At 12:24 PM 4/22/09 +0100, you wrote:
>
>The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall
>speed. >>
>
>Hi
>How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the
>airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the
>wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect.
>With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger
>she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the
>speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference.
>Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly
>??
>
Pat,
The idea is to dirty up the plane. That is why you add flaperon and forward
slip. Adding flaperon increases both the lift and drag coefficients and
reduces stall speed. The forward slip increases drag and decreases lift.
The trick is to find the flaperon setting that gives you the highest rate of
controllable descent.
There is no way to stall the FireFly at 50 mphi unless you intentionally
stall it by jerking the stick back. In a forward slip, the airspeed
indicator will read slow so if it indicates 50 mph you are actually going
faster and so it increases the margin of safety. The important thing is to
keep the power off so that one can steepen the descent.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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Subject: | Re: Kolb crash yesterday |
At 07:52 PM 4/21/09 -0700, you wrote:
Richard,
Thanks for the explanation.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote:
> The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall
> speed. >>
>
> Hi
> How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the
> airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the
> wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect.
> With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger
> she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the
> speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference.
> Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly
> ??
>
> Pat
Well remember, stall is determined by angle of attack, not airspeed. This is why
we can still fly an airplane in a slip or without an working ASI - you still
have to practice AoA maintenance to avoid a stall in a slip also just like at
other times.
So I'd say Jack is right. The forward slip is a good way to add drag for steepening
a descent without building up too much airspeed (a poor man's flaps).
But I will agree that slips in the Kolb don't add a whole bunch more drag like
they do in some other planes. I slipped my FS II a bunch but didn't find it to
really steepen the descent that much. But it did work so I used it in the rare
event I was actually too high on final.
If you really want drag, install a C box and the rk-400 clutch. Talk about flaps.....
the windmilling prop when you back down to idle is like deploying the
BRS, you come down and steep too...... ;)
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240691#240691
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
> The idea is to dirty up the plane. That is why you add flaperon and forward
> slip. Adding flaperon increases both the lift and drag coefficients and
> reduces stall speed. The forward slip increases drag and decreases lift.
> The trick is to find the flaperon setting that gives you the highest rate of
> controllable descent.
>
> There is no way to stall the FireFly at 50 mphi unless you intentionally
> stall it by jerking the stick back. In a forward slip, the airspeed
> indicator will read slow so if it indicates 50 mph you are actually going
> faster and so it increases the margin of safety. The important thing is to
> keep the power off so that one can steepen the descent.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
Jack,
I was mostly trained in a Cessna 150 but my instructor would slap my hand if I
did a slip with the flaps down. Do one or the other, but not both.
I don't have flaps in my Kolb Mark II, so that's not an option for me anyways.
If we're having an emergency, well we're probably in danger anyways so it may be
worth the potential danger that the combination brings, but if it's just because
our approach is off, then go around and do the right approach. May be well
worth the extra gas and time it takes!
If one insists on trying it or being familiar with it in case of an emergency,
then get with an instructor first and make sure you are performing it as safely
as possible.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240694#240694
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Subject: | Re: Kolb crash yesterday |
Richard,
Glad to hear Travis is doing OK. That FSII looks like a scorpion with its "stinger
boom" pointed forward.. Still have my Fergy F-IIB project and will sell it
very
reasonable with or without the Geo/Raven engine.
Bruce Bixler
----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:52:13 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
Probably should have put this in the original post, but just to help resolve the
speculation - There was apparently a wind shear caused both by the local terrain
and by a thermal cooking off, but either way - there was a sharp airpseed
decay, the tailwheel hit the ground on the wrong side of the fence, but the mains
cleared. (Love those VG's...)
Hit the fence with the tailwheel, flipped it nose low, hit the grass with the left
main first. The fitting where the landing gear leg attaches to the axle broke,
the wheel came off, and the gear leg dug in. (Tongue in cheek comment follows:)
That was not helpful. (I WILL be talking this over with Travis) When we
put it back together, the new fitting will get gusseted. I am also planning to
gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is similar. Fool me once, etc...
With the wheel gone off the end of the left gear leg, the leg dug in, and that
is probably when the nose hit. Then, as the airplane was spinning around the left
gear leg, I think the tail hit next, the airplane having turned 180 degrees
and is now going backwards, the tail hit, and the boom folded, and now the airplane
rolled up the boom, ending up inverted, with the empennage wrapped around
the gap seal. Not sure when or how the right wing was destroyed. Maybe it
hit as the airplane spun 180 degrees. Strangest of all, the Ivoprop emerged unscathed!
(weird...)
Ed is in good spirits, already discussing how we will put it back together, looks
like his surgery is now set back a couple of weeks, situation unsure. We are
praying for good healing.
It will take a while to put the FSII back together, but we are already committed
to putting it back together with a goal of 50 pounds lighter, (It was porky,
too many bells and whistles) stronger, and better than before. This is all just
a speed bump on the road of life. Guys build things. (because God builds things,
we imitate Him, we build things) Because we live in a fallen world, we tear
stuff up, then we fix it and go on, then we tear it up, and fix it again,
and go on. We are guys, that's what we do. Ed and I have talked it over, and it
gives us something good to do. Not what we had planned, but so what? Keeps us
out of worse mischief...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240615#240615
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short landing technique question |
At 06:34 AM 4/22/09 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Jack,
>
>I was mostly trained in a Cessna 150 but my instructor would slap my hand if I
did a slip with the flaps down. Do one or the other, but not both.
>
>I don't have flaps in my Kolb Mark II, so that's not an option for me anyways.
>
>If we're having an emergency, well we're probably in danger anyways so it may
be worth the potential danger that the combination brings, but if it's just because
our approach is off, then go around and do the right approach. May be well
worth the extra gas and time it takes!
>
>If one insists on trying it or being familiar with it in case of an emergency,
then get with an instructor first and make sure you are performing it as safely
as possible.
>
Cristal,
You are absolutely correct about the training aspect, but possibility of
receiving training in my FireFly is zero. That is why in my previous post
that I state to go to altitude and practice. I suspect the 150 manual says
not to combine the slip and flap because the fuselage will blank or disturb
the air flow to the trailing wing. This is not a problem on a FireFly.
That is why altitude is important practice things before you try them close
to the ground.
I am very much apposed to very light aircraft low energy, low stabilized,
approach angle landings. If the engine coughs you can not make the field.
If you are approaching into the wind to a raised runway, the air flow off
the end of the runway will drop you into the approach if you try to land on
the end of the runway. In the summer time there is always a thermal over an
asphalt runway, which means you must fly through high sink just before
reaching the runway. A steeper approach angle and higher approach speed
gives the pilot more options due to more responsive controls and the ability
to penetrate through some of these
traps.
Lighter aircraft are more subject to the natural thermal and wind phenomena.
Heavier higher powered aircraft can penetrate better as their stall speeds
are high in relation to going on in the atmosphere. This is probably why
pilot training does not include spins. Anyone who is going to fly a very
light aircraft should be experienced with stalls and spins. The first spin
I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher. I
felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down. By practicing
stalls and spins in my FireFly, I found out that it complains or warns me
before the event takes place. Now I can heed the warnings and keep my self
out of an emergency.
My apologies, you struck a cord. I hate seeing good equipment rolled into a
ball. Remember when flying slow, altitude is your friend and when flying
low, speed is your friend. Fly safe.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Kolb crash yesterday |
Bruce
Travis was not in the plane. You are aware that you are on the KOLB list not
on the F...... list.
do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bixler" <tocprez@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
>
>
> Richard,
> Glad to hear Travis is doing OK. That FSII looks like a scorpion with its
> "stinger boom" pointed forward.. Still have my Fergy F-IIB project and
> will sell it very
> reasonable with or without the Geo/Raven engine.
> Bruce Bixler
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:52:13 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
>
>
> Probably should have put this in the original post, but just to help
> resolve the speculation - There was apparently a wind shear caused both by
> the local terrain and by a thermal cooking off, but either way - there was
> a sharp airpseed decay, the tailwheel hit the ground on the wrong side of
> the fence, but the mains cleared. (Love those VG's...)
>
> Hit the fence with the tailwheel, flipped it nose low, hit the grass with
> the left main first. The fitting where the landing gear leg attaches to
> the axle broke, the wheel came off, and the gear leg dug in. (Tongue in
> cheek comment follows:) That was not helpful. (I WILL be talking this over
> with Travis) When we put it back together, the new fitting will get
> gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is
> similar. Fool me once, etc...
>
> With the wheel gone off the end of the left gear leg, the leg dug in, and
> that is probably when the nose hit. Then, as the airplane was spinning
> around the left gear leg, I think the tail hit next, the airplane having
> turned 180 degrees and is now going backwards, the tail hit, and the boom
> folded, and now the airplane rolled up the boom, ending up inverted, with
> the empennage wrapped around the gap seal. Not sure when or how the right
> wing was destroyed. Maybe it hit as the airplane spun 180 degrees.
> Strangest of all, the Ivoprop emerged unscathed! (weird...)
>
> Ed is in good spirits, already discussing how we will put it back
> together, looks like his surgery is now set back a couple of weeks,
> situation unsure. We are praying for good healing.
>
> It will take a while to put the FSII back together, but we are already
> committed to putting it back together with a goal of 50 pounds lighter,
> (It was porky, too many bells and whistles) stronger, and better than
> before. This is all just a speed bump on the road of life. Guys build
> things. (because God builds things, we imitate Him, we build things)
> Because we live in a fallen world, we tear stuff up, then we fix it and go
> on, then we tear it up, and fix it again, and go on. We are guys, that's
> what we do. Ed and I have talked it over, and it gives us something good
> to do. Not what we had planned, but so what? Keeps us out of worse
> mischief...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240615#240615
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short landing technique question |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
>
>
> You are absolutely correct about the training aspect, but possibility of
> receiving training in my FireFly is zero. That is why in my previous post
> that I state to go to altitude and practice. I suspect the 150 manual says
> not to combine the slip and flap because the fuselage will blank or disturb
> the air flow to the trailing wing. This is not a problem on a FireFly.
> That is why altitude is important practice things before you try them close
> to the ground.
>
Just FWIW,
The 150 has no advisories about slipping with flaps - it's the 172 that has the
placard "avoid slips with flaps" on the panel. And the only consequence there
was during the initial flight testing of the 172, some buffeting was found to
sometimes occur against the elevator that could spook the pilot (I've done a
max-effort slip with the flaps out in a 172, tho, and didn't experience a buffet
that particular time).
Somehow, tho, this particular case somehow got extrapolated into a restriction
that applies to everything with flaps that flies through the air. The "no slips
with flaps" thing is now a legendary argument in general aviation and truly
ugly, bloody jousts continue to be fought over the myths and legends on aviation
newsgroups around the world.
But the facts as best I can determine as to the origin of the mythology of slipping
with flaps are as follows:
- it all started with the placard in the 172
- slipping with flaps is NOT dangerous in the 172, can only be spooky and disconcerting.
- slipping with flaps is NOT prohibited in ALL airplanes with flaps. Many, in fact
most, slip just fine with the flaps deployed (i.e. my titan slips no problem
with full flaps).
So please, no slips-with-flaps fights on the kolb list. BTDT! ;)
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240736#240736
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Subject: | Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he.. |
This was not a Kolb, it was a Titan, which is a very good experimental airplane
in which the pilot was saved by a BRS. The failure was due to fabric on this
plane. Many will say that checking the fabric would have prevented this accident,
which is true. The more important lesson to be learned here is that experimental
airplanes are very complicated machines, you can NOT inspect everything
all the time. You can not inspect many welds, or metal parts that can and
do fail. Many totally unforeseen things can and do happen with experimental
airplanes, they are not Cessnas and Pipers, we should never forget this. A BRS
is a really good thing to have on an experimental airplane that may well save
your life one day.
http://www.ultralightsquadron.org/Documents/ultralog_200901.pdf
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240751#240751
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because |
he..
In a message dated 4/22/2009 1:35:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
Many totally unforeseen things can and do happen with experimental
airplanes, they are not Cessnas and Pipers, we should never forget this. A BRS
is
a really good thing to have on an experimental airplane that may well save
your life one day.
Since when were Cessnas & Pipers safe airplanes? I've owned a Cessna 404
for cargo, a friend owned a Cessna 421 for pleasure & both were the most
underpowered pieces of dangerous crap we've ever flown. We were lucky &
learned a big lesson...twin Cessnas & Pipers are not safe airplanes. Ultralights
are if you use common sense. Since 2004 there have been twelve (12) fatal
accidents in 421s alone.
As for a BRS, I've been flying ultralights since 1978 & never used one &
never needed one. I'm 60 years of age & if I go tomorrow nobody will give a
crap including me....nobody but my insurance company that is. The money
I've saved in purchasing one & buying repacks has been phenominal for over 30
years. Those thousands of dollars saved have bought me a hell of a lot more
flying time.
Another little tidbit for all you lifesavers...I've died before...it ain't
no big deal. I drowned when I was a kid & was underwater for over 20
minutes. Clinically dead. What was it like? Being dead is like you were before
you were born. There it is...for all you religious freaks to ponder on.
Like the old saying goes...Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chase women,
live an extra two years & die anyway.
**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B214133109%3B36002181%3Bk)
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
Let me add one thing to this thread.
??????????????????????????? The most effective change I made to effect shorter
landings was to decrease engine idle speed to less than 1800 rpm( that was with
a 3 blade IVO ),on the 503 with a b box,2.58/1.
? G Aman Former FS 2 driver
-----Original Message-----
From: lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 9:22 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote:
> The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall
> speed. >>
>
> Hi
> How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the
> airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the
> wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect.
> With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger
> she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the
> speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference.
> Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly
> ??
>
> Pat
Well remember, stall is determined by angle of attack, not airspeed. This is why
we can still fly an airplane in a slip or without an working ASI - you still
have to practice AoA maintenance to avoid a stall in a slip also just like at
other times.
So I'd say Jack is right. The forward slip is a good way to add drag for
steepening a descent without building up too much airspeed (a poor man's flaps).
But I will agree that slips in the Kolb don't add a whole bunch more drag like
they do in some other planes. I slipped my FS II a bunch but didn't find it to
really steepen the descent that much. But it did work so I used it in the rare
event I was actually too high on final.
If you really want drag, install a C box and the rk-400 clutch. Talk about
flaps..... the windmilling prop when you back down to idle is like deploying
the BRS, you come down and steep too...... ;)
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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Subject: | Fwd: F-15 Accident |
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because |
he..
Blumax008(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Like the old saying goes...Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chase women, live
an extra two years & die anyway.
> Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
>
Interesting take on life... I am not 60 yet but most definitely want to get there
and beyond !
How about Smoking, Drinking, Chasing women, flying ultralights, riding motorcycles,
AND live the extra two years ;) Thats my goal !
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
Remember...an airplane will fly slower under power than without power....
chris ambrose
m3x-jab
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
> Remember...an airplane will fly slower under power than without power....
>
> chris ambrose
> m3x-jab
Chris=2C
While that point may be true in flight=2C it ceases to work once you've
touched down.
I faster spinning prop will not help to slow down quicker than a slow spinn
ing prop. (unless=2C of course=2C you have beta mode)
Mike Welch
MkIII
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_
Mobile2_042009
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short short landing technique question |
....I'm sorry...I thought we were slowing the plane down in the air to land...yes
..when you are on the ground,pull the throtle back..
chris ambrose
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short landing technique question |
> The first spin
>I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher. I
>felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down.
>(snip)
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Winchester, IN
>===========================================================
YeeeHaaaa
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7008845811094869981
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Dumb short landing technique question |
STAN!!!!!!!!
You know that there are no one, execpt possums that do that!!!!
You do not have my jacket ,I have one. JACK DANIALS!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Dumb short landing technique question
>
>
>> The first spin
>>I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher.
>>I
>>felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down.
>>(snip)
>>Jack B. Hart FF004
>>Winchester, IN
>>===========================================================
>
> YeeeHaaaa
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7008845811094869981
>
>
>
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