Kolb-List Digest Archive

Wed 04/22/09


Total Messages Posted: 22



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:17 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (pj.ladd)
     2. 04:24 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (pj.ladd)
     3. 05:24 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (zeprep251@aol.com)
     4. 05:38 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (JetPilot)
     5. 06:03 AM - Re: Dumb short landing technique question (Jack B. Hart)
     6. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Jack B. Hart)
     7. 06:23 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (lucien)
     8. 06:35 AM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (cristalclear13)
     9. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Bruce Bixler)
    10. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Dumb short landing technique question (Jack B. Hart)
    11. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
    12. 10:03 AM - Re: Dumb short landing technique question (lucien)
    13. 10:35 AM - Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he.. (JetPilot)
    14. 11:03 AM - Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he.. (Blumax008@aol.com)
    15. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (zeprep251@aol.com)
    16. 12:29 PM - Fw: F-15 Accident (russ kinne)
    17. 12:32 PM - Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he.. (JetPilot)
    18. 01:56 PM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (ces308)
    19. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (Mike Welch)
    20. 05:18 PM - Re: Dumb short short landing technique question (ces308)
    21. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short landing technique question (possums)
    22. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Dumb short landing technique question (Jack Day)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:17:37 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    This does not seem likely if one caught the tail wheel on a fence.>> Hi Jack, I thought that was strange. I did the same thing in a Kranich Glider many years ago. It was like picking up the third wire with your arrestor hook. we suddenly lost flying speed, then the fence broke and the glider just fell to the ground and stood up on the front skid, almost flipped and then fell back. With a Kolb with maybe an undercarriage tube sticking into the ground it could go either way. Pat


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:24:13 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall speed. >> Hi How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect. With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference. Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly ?? Pat


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:24:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Pat, ? Am I assuming correctly,that a vario is a rate of climb or descent? instrument? ?? Thanks G Aman -----Original Message----- From: pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> Sent: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 7:24 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dumb short short landing technique question ? The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall speed. >>? ? Hi? How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect.? With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference.? Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly ??? ? Pat ? ? ?


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:38:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    Richard Pike wrote: > > > (I WILL be talking this over with Travis) When we put it back together, the new fitting will get gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is similar. Fool me once, etc... > > That is a very good idea, this is not the first time things have been much worse than they should have been due to a landing gear breaking. It seems like its worth the effort and little extra weight to have strong gear. Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240677#240677


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:03:20 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Dumb short landing technique question
    At 12:24 PM 4/22/09 +0100, you wrote: > >The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall >speed. >> > >Hi >How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the >airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the >wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect. >With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger >she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the >speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference. >Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly >?? > Pat, The idea is to dirty up the plane. That is why you add flaperon and forward slip. Adding flaperon increases both the lift and drag coefficients and reduces stall speed. The forward slip increases drag and decreases lift. The trick is to find the flaperon setting that gives you the highest rate of controllable descent. There is no way to stall the FireFly at 50 mphi unless you intentionally stall it by jerking the stick back. In a forward slip, the airspeed indicator will read slow so if it indicates 50 mph you are actually going faster and so it increases the margin of safety. The important thing is to keep the power off so that one can steepen the descent. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:06:26 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    At 07:52 PM 4/21/09 -0700, you wrote: Richard, Thanks for the explanation. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN do not archive


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:23:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall > speed. >> > > Hi > How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the > airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the > wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect. > With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger > she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the > speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference. > Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly > ?? > > Pat Well remember, stall is determined by angle of attack, not airspeed. This is why we can still fly an airplane in a slip or without an working ASI - you still have to practice AoA maintenance to avoid a stall in a slip also just like at other times. So I'd say Jack is right. The forward slip is a good way to add drag for steepening a descent without building up too much airspeed (a poor man's flaps). But I will agree that slips in the Kolb don't add a whole bunch more drag like they do in some other planes. I slipped my FS II a bunch but didn't find it to really steepen the descent that much. But it did work so I used it in the rare event I was actually too high on final. If you really want drag, install a C box and the rk-400 clutch. Talk about flaps..... the windmilling prop when you back down to idle is like deploying the BRS, you come down and steep too...... ;) LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240691#240691


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:35:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters@gmail.com>
    jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > The idea is to dirty up the plane. That is why you add flaperon and forward > slip. Adding flaperon increases both the lift and drag coefficients and > reduces stall speed. The forward slip increases drag and decreases lift. > The trick is to find the flaperon setting that gives you the highest rate of > controllable descent. > > There is no way to stall the FireFly at 50 mphi unless you intentionally > stall it by jerking the stick back. In a forward slip, the airspeed > indicator will read slow so if it indicates 50 mph you are actually going > faster and so it increases the margin of safety. The important thing is to > keep the power off so that one can steepen the descent. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN Jack, I was mostly trained in a Cessna 150 but my instructor would slap my hand if I did a slip with the flaps down. Do one or the other, but not both. I don't have flaps in my Kolb Mark II, so that's not an option for me anyways. If we're having an emergency, well we're probably in danger anyways so it may be worth the potential danger that the combination brings, but if it's just because our approach is off, then go around and do the right approach. May be well worth the extra gas and time it takes! If one insists on trying it or being familiar with it in case of an emergency, then get with an instructor first and make sure you are performing it as safely as possible. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240694#240694


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:42:46 AM PST US
    From: Bruce Bixler <tocprez@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    Richard, Glad to hear Travis is doing OK. That FSII looks like a scorpion with its "stinger boom" pointed forward.. Still have my Fergy F-IIB project and will sell it very reasonable with or without the Geo/Raven engine. Bruce Bixler ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:52:13 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday Probably should have put this in the original post, but just to help resolve the speculation - There was apparently a wind shear caused both by the local terrain and by a thermal cooking off, but either way - there was a sharp airpseed decay, the tailwheel hit the ground on the wrong side of the fence, but the mains cleared. (Love those VG's...) Hit the fence with the tailwheel, flipped it nose low, hit the grass with the left main first. The fitting where the landing gear leg attaches to the axle broke, the wheel came off, and the gear leg dug in. (Tongue in cheek comment follows:) That was not helpful. (I WILL be talking this over with Travis) When we put it back together, the new fitting will get gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is similar. Fool me once, etc... With the wheel gone off the end of the left gear leg, the leg dug in, and that is probably when the nose hit. Then, as the airplane was spinning around the left gear leg, I think the tail hit next, the airplane having turned 180 degrees and is now going backwards, the tail hit, and the boom folded, and now the airplane rolled up the boom, ending up inverted, with the empennage wrapped around the gap seal. Not sure when or how the right wing was destroyed. Maybe it hit as the airplane spun 180 degrees. Strangest of all, the Ivoprop emerged unscathed! (weird...) Ed is in good spirits, already discussing how we will put it back together, looks like his surgery is now set back a couple of weeks, situation unsure. We are praying for good healing. It will take a while to put the FSII back together, but we are already committed to putting it back together with a goal of 50 pounds lighter, (It was porky, too many bells and whistles) stronger, and better than before. This is all just a speed bump on the road of life. Guys build things. (because God builds things, we imitate Him, we build things) Because we live in a fallen world, we tear stuff up, then we fix it and go on, then we tear it up, and fix it again, and go on. We are guys, that's what we do. Ed and I have talked it over, and it gives us something good to do. Not what we had planned, but so what? Keeps us out of worse mischief... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240615#240615


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:17:21 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Dumb short landing technique question
    At 06:34 AM 4/22/09 -0700, you wrote: > >Jack, > >I was mostly trained in a Cessna 150 but my instructor would slap my hand if I did a slip with the flaps down. Do one or the other, but not both. > >I don't have flaps in my Kolb Mark II, so that's not an option for me anyways. > >If we're having an emergency, well we're probably in danger anyways so it may be worth the potential danger that the combination brings, but if it's just because our approach is off, then go around and do the right approach. May be well worth the extra gas and time it takes! > >If one insists on trying it or being familiar with it in case of an emergency, then get with an instructor first and make sure you are performing it as safely as possible. > Cristal, You are absolutely correct about the training aspect, but possibility of receiving training in my FireFly is zero. That is why in my previous post that I state to go to altitude and practice. I suspect the 150 manual says not to combine the slip and flap because the fuselage will blank or disturb the air flow to the trailing wing. This is not a problem on a FireFly. That is why altitude is important practice things before you try them close to the ground. I am very much apposed to very light aircraft low energy, low stabilized, approach angle landings. If the engine coughs you can not make the field. If you are approaching into the wind to a raised runway, the air flow off the end of the runway will drop you into the approach if you try to land on the end of the runway. In the summer time there is always a thermal over an asphalt runway, which means you must fly through high sink just before reaching the runway. A steeper approach angle and higher approach speed gives the pilot more options due to more responsive controls and the ability to penetrate through some of these traps. Lighter aircraft are more subject to the natural thermal and wind phenomena. Heavier higher powered aircraft can penetrate better as their stall speeds are high in relation to going on in the atmosphere. This is probably why pilot training does not include spins. Anyone who is going to fly a very light aircraft should be experienced with stalls and spins. The first spin I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher. I felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down. By practicing stalls and spins in my FireFly, I found out that it complains or warns me before the event takes place. Now I can heed the warnings and keep my self out of an emergency. My apologies, you struck a cord. I hate seeing good equipment rolled into a ball. Remember when flying slow, altitude is your friend and when flying low, speed is your friend. Fly safe. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:33:02 AM PST US
    From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    Bruce Travis was not in the plane. You are aware that you are on the KOLB list not on the F...... list. do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Bixler" <tocprez@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday > > > Richard, > Glad to hear Travis is doing OK. That FSII looks like a scorpion with its > "stinger boom" pointed forward.. Still have my Fergy F-IIB project and > will sell it very > reasonable with or without the Geo/Raven engine. > Bruce Bixler > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:52:13 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb crash yesterday > > > Probably should have put this in the original post, but just to help > resolve the speculation - There was apparently a wind shear caused both by > the local terrain and by a thermal cooking off, but either way - there was > a sharp airpseed decay, the tailwheel hit the ground on the wrong side of > the fence, but the mains cleared. (Love those VG's...) > > Hit the fence with the tailwheel, flipped it nose low, hit the grass with > the left main first. The fitting where the landing gear leg attaches to > the axle broke, the wheel came off, and the gear leg dug in. (Tongue in > cheek comment follows:) That was not helpful. (I WILL be talking this over > with Travis) When we put it back together, the new fitting will get > gusseted. I am also planning to gusset the fitting on my MKIII if it is > similar. Fool me once, etc... > > With the wheel gone off the end of the left gear leg, the leg dug in, and > that is probably when the nose hit. Then, as the airplane was spinning > around the left gear leg, I think the tail hit next, the airplane having > turned 180 degrees and is now going backwards, the tail hit, and the boom > folded, and now the airplane rolled up the boom, ending up inverted, with > the empennage wrapped around the gap seal. Not sure when or how the right > wing was destroyed. Maybe it hit as the airplane spun 180 degrees. > Strangest of all, the Ivoprop emerged unscathed! (weird...) > > Ed is in good spirits, already discussing how we will put it back > together, looks like his surgery is now set back a couple of weeks, > situation unsure. We are praying for good healing. > > It will take a while to put the FSII back together, but we are already > committed to putting it back together with a goal of 50 pounds lighter, > (It was porky, too many bells and whistles) stronger, and better than > before. This is all just a speed bump on the road of life. Guys build > things. (because God builds things, we imitate Him, we build things) > Because we live in a fallen world, we tear stuff up, then we fix it and go > on, then we tear it up, and fix it again, and go on. We are guys, that's > what we do. Ed and I have talked it over, and it gives us something good > to do. Not what we had planned, but so what? Keeps us out of worse > mischief... > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240615#240615 > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:03:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dumb short landing technique question
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > > > You are absolutely correct about the training aspect, but possibility of > receiving training in my FireFly is zero. That is why in my previous post > that I state to go to altitude and practice. I suspect the 150 manual says > not to combine the slip and flap because the fuselage will blank or disturb > the air flow to the trailing wing. This is not a problem on a FireFly. > That is why altitude is important practice things before you try them close > to the ground. > Just FWIW, The 150 has no advisories about slipping with flaps - it's the 172 that has the placard "avoid slips with flaps" on the panel. And the only consequence there was during the initial flight testing of the 172, some buffeting was found to sometimes occur against the elevator that could spook the pilot (I've done a max-effort slip with the flaps out in a 172, tho, and didn't experience a buffet that particular time). Somehow, tho, this particular case somehow got extrapolated into a restriction that applies to everything with flaps that flies through the air. The "no slips with flaps" thing is now a legendary argument in general aviation and truly ugly, bloody jousts continue to be fought over the myths and legends on aviation newsgroups around the world. But the facts as best I can determine as to the origin of the mythology of slipping with flaps are as follows: - it all started with the placard in the 172 - slipping with flaps is NOT dangerous in the 172, can only be spooky and disconcerting. - slipping with flaps is NOT prohibited in ALL airplanes with flaps. Many, in fact most, slip just fine with the flaps deployed (i.e. my titan slips no problem with full flaps). So please, no slips-with-flaps fights on the kolb list. BTDT! ;) LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240736#240736


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:35:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because he..
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    This was not a Kolb, it was a Titan, which is a very good experimental airplane in which the pilot was saved by a BRS. The failure was due to fabric on this plane. Many will say that checking the fabric would have prevented this accident, which is true. The more important lesson to be learned here is that experimental airplanes are very complicated machines, you can NOT inspect everything all the time. You can not inspect many welds, or metal parts that can and do fail. Many totally unforeseen things can and do happen with experimental airplanes, they are not Cessnas and Pipers, we should never forget this. A BRS is a really good thing to have on an experimental airplane that may well save your life one day. http://www.ultralightsquadron.org/Documents/ultralog_200901.pdf Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240751#240751


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:03:24 AM PST US
    From: Blumax008@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because
    he.. In a message dated 4/22/2009 1:35:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, orcabonita@hotmail.com writes: Many totally unforeseen things can and do happen with experimental airplanes, they are not Cessnas and Pipers, we should never forget this. A BRS is a really good thing to have on an experimental airplane that may well save your life one day. Since when were Cessnas & Pipers safe airplanes? I've owned a Cessna 404 for cargo, a friend owned a Cessna 421 for pleasure & both were the most underpowered pieces of dangerous crap we've ever flown. We were lucky & learned a big lesson...twin Cessnas & Pipers are not safe airplanes. Ultralights are if you use common sense. Since 2004 there have been twelve (12) fatal accidents in 421s alone. As for a BRS, I've been flying ultralights since 1978 & never used one & never needed one. I'm 60 years of age & if I go tomorrow nobody will give a crap including me....nobody but my insurance company that is. The money I've saved in purchasing one & buying repacks has been phenominal for over 30 years. Those thousands of dollars saved have bought me a hell of a lot more flying time. Another little tidbit for all you lifesavers...I've died before...it ain't no big deal. I drowned when I was a kid & was underwater for over 20 minutes. Clinically dead. What was it like? Being dead is like you were before you were born. There it is...for all you religious freaks to ponder on. Like the old saying goes...Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chase women, live an extra two years & die anyway. **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops! eclick.net%2Fclk%3B214133109%3B36002181%3Bk)


    Message 15


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    Time: 12:07:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Let me add one thing to this thread. ??????????????????????????? The most effective change I made to effect shorter landings was to decrease engine idle speed to less than 1800 rpm( that was with a 3 blade IVO ),on the 503 with a b box,2.58/1. ? G Aman Former FS 2 driver -----Original Message----- From: lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 9:22 am Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall > speed. >> > > Hi > How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the > airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the > wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect. > With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger > she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the > speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference. > Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly > ?? > > Pat Well remember, stall is determined by angle of attack, not airspeed. This is why we can still fly an airplane in a slip or without an working ASI - you still have to practice AoA maintenance to avoid a stall in a slip also just like at other times. So I'd say Jack is right. The forward slip is a good way to add drag for steepening a descent without building up too much airspeed (a poor man's flaps). But I will agree that slips in the Kolb don't add a whole bunch more drag like they do in some other planes. I slipped my FS II a bunch but didn't find it to really steepen the descent that much. But it did work so I used it in the rare event I was actually too high on final. If you really want drag, install a C box and the rk-400 clutch. Talk about flaps..... the windmilling prop when you back down to idle is like deploying the BRS, you come down and steep too...... ;) LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240691#240691


    Message 16


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    Time: 12:29:14 PM PST US
    From: russ kinne <Russ@rkiphoto.com>
    Subject: Fwd: F-15 Accident


    Message 17


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    Time: 12:32:55 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Another BRS SAVE !!! Here is a guy alive today because
    he..
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    Blumax008(at)aol.com wrote: > > Like the old saying goes...Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chase women, live an extra two years & die anyway. > Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops! > Interesting take on life... I am not 60 yet but most definitely want to get there and beyond ! How about Smoking, Drinking, Chasing women, flying ultralights, riding motorcycles, AND live the extra two years ;) Thats my goal ! Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240780#240780


    Message 18


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    Time: 01:56:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
    Remember...an airplane will fly slower under power than without power.... chris ambrose m3x-jab Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240793#240793


    Message 19


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    Time: 02:47:31 PM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    > Remember...an airplane will fly slower under power than without power.... > > chris ambrose > m3x-jab Chris=2C While that point may be true in flight=2C it ceases to work once you've touched down. I faster spinning prop will not help to slow down quicker than a slow spinn ing prop. (unless=2C of course=2C you have beta mode) Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_ Mobile2_042009


    Message 20


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    Time: 05:18:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dumb short short landing technique question
    From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
    ....I'm sorry...I thought we were slowing the plane down in the air to land...yes ..when you are on the ground,pull the throtle back.. chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240826#240826


    Message 21


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    Time: 06:21:33 PM PST US
    From: possums <possums@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Dumb short landing technique question
    > The first spin >I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher. I >felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down. >(snip) >Jack B. Hart FF004 >Winchester, IN >=========================================================== YeeeHaaaa http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7008845811094869981


    Message 22


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    Time: 07:02:01 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Day" <jwdfly16@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Dumb short landing technique question
    STAN!!!!!!!! You know that there are no one, execpt possums that do that!!!! You do not have my jacket ,I have one. JACK DANIALS!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "possums" <possums@bellsouth.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Dumb short landing technique question > > >> The first spin >>I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher. >>I >>felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down. >>(snip) >>Jack B. Hart FF004 >>Winchester, IN >>=========================================================== > > YeeeHaaaa > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7008845811094869981 > > >




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