Kolb-List Digest Archive

Fri 04/24/09


Total Messages Posted: 36



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:36 AM - Re: slips (Thom Riddle)
     2. 04:52 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (william sullivan)
     3. 04:58 AM - Re: slips (Ralph B)
     4. 05:04 AM - Re: q (Ralph B)
     5. 05:05 AM - Stits (william sullivan)
     6. 05:12 AM - 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma! (ropermike)
     7. 06:08 AM - Re: 503 low CHT dilemma (william sullivan)
     8. 06:21 AM - Re: Stits (Herb)
     9. 06:32 AM - Re: Stits (william sullivan)
    10. 06:32 AM - Re: Stits (robert bean)
    11. 06:37 AM - Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma! (lucien)
    12. 06:37 AM - Re: Stits (william sullivan)
    13. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Stits (Herb)
    14. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Stits (robert bean)
    15. 07:33 AM - INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!! (JetPilot)
    16. 07:49 AM - Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma! (ropermike)
    17. 07:55 AM -  =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__503_low_CHT=99s_dilemma!? (Jack B. Hart)
    18. 08:12 AM - Re: INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!! (robert bean)
    19. 08:16 AM - Re: INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!! (lucien)
    20. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: 503 low CHT dilemma (Richard Girard)
    21. 08:48 AM - Stits (Jack B. Hart)
    22. 09:49 AM - Re: Stits (william sullivan)
    23. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Dana Hague)
    24. 10:12 AM - Re: Stits (Jack B. Hart)
    25. 10:33 AM - Re: Kolb crash yesterday (william sullivan)
    26. 10:49 AM - Re: 503 low CHT dilemma (ropermike)
    27. 10:56 AM - Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma! (ropermike)
    28. 12:15 PM - Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma! (lucien)
    29. 01:54 PM - Re: INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!! (JetPilot)
    30. 01:55 PM - Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma! (olendorf)
    31. 03:21 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:___503_low_CHT=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s_dilemma!? (zeprep251@aol.com)
    32. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Kolb crash yesterday (Dana Hague)
    33. 05:48 PM -  =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__503_low_CHT=99s_dilemma!? (Jack B. Hart)
    34. 07:18 PM - Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s?= dilemma! (ropermike)
    35. 07:21 PM - Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma! (ropermike)
    36. 08:34 PM - Re: Stits (Jack B. Hart)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:36:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: slips
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Thread was SLIPS Ralph's comment about carrying a heavy passenger prompts me to ask about the size (sq. ft) of the standard MKIII and Kolbra wings. The reason I ask is that I've flown our RANS S6-S (155.25 sq ft wing) at MTOW of 1200 lb with a 280 lb passenger and light fuel. I weight about 215, so there is a lot of human carcass aboard in this configuration. This comes to a wing loading of 7.73 lb/sqft wing loading and 15 lb/hp for my 80hp 912. At our low elevation and generally cool climate the performance at MTOW is adequate. Not enough power for that weight in the Rockies. Most of the time I fly solo with more fuel at about 950 lbs TOW which comes to only 6.12 lb/sqft and 11.88 lb/hp. with great performance. Just curious about MkIII and Kolbra wings for comparison. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241005#241005


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:52:09 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    - Richard Pike- First, how is Ed doing?- Was he wearing a four point be lt, or a six point?- The cage collapsed almost exactly like mine.- I wa s only wearing a lap belt, and that was probably what broke my pelvis.- I can see shoulder straps in the photos.- Also, what broke Ed's leg- the n ose cone?- I had marks on my shins from the cone, but no breaks. - Any damage to the main engine mount tube?- I can't tell from the phot os. - ------------------------- --------------------- Bill Sulliv an ------------------------- --------------------- Windsor Loc ks, Ct. ------------------------- ----------------------FS 447


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:58:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: slips
    From: "Ralph B" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
    JetPilot wrote: > > Ralph B wrote: > > > > I need to experiment more. I took my neighbor for a ride and he is a good 230 lbs. The Kolbra took awhile to get airborne, but it did climb ok on 80 hp. > > > > Ralph > > > How much do you weigh Ralph ? Do you put the passenger in the back seat ? That is a very good load for 80 HP. My Kolb can lift heavy weights just fine, me and a heavy passenger. For me the biggest problem with a heavy passenger is the nose down trim I get from it, my limit is running out of up elevator long before the weight itself becomes an issue. I guess in your Kolb the passenger is closer to the CG, do you get much of a trim change ? > > Mike Mike, I weigh 200 lbs and the passenger is in the back seat. I have an manual adjustable trim on the elevator and a motorized adjustable bungee on the stick, but I didn't adjust the manual trim for this heavy passenger and held a little "back stick" as I ran out of trim adjustment on the bungee trim. I didn't have a problem on landing as there was plenty of "up elevator". It happened to be a turbulent day and the extra weight smoothed things out. I commented to the passenger that if I had been flying the Firestar, I would be all over the sky. The rear passenger space is limited, so anyone over 230 lbs may not be able to get back there. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241007#241007


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:04:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: q
    From: "Ralph B" <ul15rhb@juno.com>
    russ(at)rkiphoto.com wrote: > Sorry list, that was supposed to be off-list Any post you make can be edited or deleted after you send it by clicking the icons on the right hand side. There have been many times I've sent something out and needed to make a correction. I click on "edit", make the change, and it appears as if I had sent it correctly the first time in the same post. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241008#241008


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:05:08 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Stits
    Jack Hart-- I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of Poly F iber materials.- As weight was one of your considerations when you built your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how many layers, etc.?- Your web site is rather vague on it.- As it stands right now, I think I w ill go with the Piper Trainer Blue as recommended in the book, but I would like all the advice I can get.- - Also, has anyone tried a Wagner electric sprayer for Poly Tone?- The two manuals seem to go either way.- I am a "dip it and drip it" painter. - If it drips, it probably won't rust. - ------------------------- ---------------------- Bill Sul livan ------------------------- ---------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ---------------------- FS 447


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:12:42 AM PST US
    Subject: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "ropermike" <ropermike2002@yahoo.com>
    I have a puzzler for all you 503 2-stroke guys with a lot more experience with these engines than I. I have a Kolb MkII with a 503 DCDI with 317 hrs. I bought the plane a couple of years ago with 180 hrs on it and entered the 2-stroke world. The engine has always ran excellent for me. I attended a repairmen-inspection coarse a couple of months ago where I complained to the instructor (Brian Carpenter) that my CHTs where very low and rarely reached 200 F. He said my EIS was probably not working right so this past week I have I set out to get to the bottom of it. ENGINE DATA Fuel.fresh reg unleaded. Oil... premix with Penn Outdoor Engine Oil 50.1 PlugsOld plugs not fouled but a little darker than I would like. Installed new plugs. CarbEverything is stock. Main jet 155 as per Rotax chart for 3,000 msl at 70* 2.74 Needle Jets with 8L2 Jet Needles. Needle clip in the top slot. Rubber O-ring on top of clips is installed. GaugesEIS digital system with duel CHTs and EGTs. Compression....127 and 123 Prop....66" two blade warp drive. Before tinkering with the engine, on 70 degree day at 3,000 msl, climbout CHTs were running about 180. EGTs about 1100. Cruise at 5000 rpm was 170 and 1000. First, I ran a static test. At full throttle, RPMs came up to 6800 and started to go over until I backed off. Great! I found the problem! Under propped. I added a little pitch to my 66 warp drive ground adjustable prop and static tested again. This time RPM was 6200 at full throttle. I thought this would surely bring those CHTs up. It did, all the way to 200. My EGTs were running 1050. By the way, OAT was 80 and I ran full throttle for at least 8 minutes until the CHTs leveled off and would not climb any more. I thought surely my EIS CHTs was giving me the wrong reading as Brian Carpenter had suggested. Next morning, I borrowed a fancy infrared digital temperature gauge, the kind that you point and pull the trigger and put the red dot just where you want to know the temp. I tied up the plane and before I started up, I turned on the master switch and looked at my EIS. CHTs were both 73*. EGTs were both 73*. OAT at this time was about 78*. I shot the cyl head as close to the spark plug as I could get with the fancy borrowed handheld infrared temp gauge and it red 73*. Hmmm. I started up and warmed the engine up gradually. When the CHTs finally reached and leveled off at 200, I idled back and let it cool down a little to 180* then killed the engine. I jumped out and checked the cylinder head with the fancy gauge and it read 188*. I checked and rechecked running back and forth from cyl head to EIS for at least an hr and came to the conclusion my EIS was reading the same as the handheld probe, or at least within 10 degrees.I also ran the engine at 5,000 RPM to check the mid-range. CHTs would back off to 180 and EGTs would run about 950* (clip is in the uppermost position on the needle)..I decided the EIS gauges were good. I decided then to try a smaller main jet. I took out the 155s and put in 150s. (I did not have 152s). I tested again and topped out at 230* CHT and 1150* EGT at full throttle. RPMs were 6300 instead of 6200. At 5000 rpm, CHTs cooled down to 200* and EGTs were at 1000*. I feel the need to have my CHTs in the 300-375 range. Im also reluctant to try smaller jets as Ive been preached at to stay as close to stock and the Rotax charts as possible. I have ordered new needles and needle jets but the old ones look fine. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to get the CHTs up or should I just fly the damn thing and quit worrying about it! Thanks in advance, Mike -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241010#241010


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:08:07 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: 503 low CHT dilemma
    - Mike- You mentioned an "O" ring on top of the clip.- I just had mine apart, and didn't see that "O" ring.- The parts book does show it, but do es not indicate where it goes.- Does it go in the top #1 slot of the need le?- This is part #831-715. - ------------------------- ---------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ---------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- -----------------FS 447


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:21:47 AM PST US
    From: Herb <herbgh@nctc.com>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    Where's Jack...?? :-) Any how...jumping in... My experience has been that one needs to use retarder/Reducer per the temperature on the day you are shooting the paint... if not..the paint will dry/cob web before it hits the surface and you will have a mess.. Also..be sure to set the fan pattern of your $29.95 paint gun (they work just as well as the high dollar ones) . Acetone or Mek is getting so expensive that you can just about toss the sprayer cheaper than cleaning the bugger!! :-) Well!! not quite..! Just shoot a piece of card board and adjust the spray pattern sort of like an upright V with an inverted V stacked on top... Without that your 50% overlap while spraying will be screwed up... Be sure to maintain the same distance while moving the sprayer back and forth...I find that I do best while rocking back and forth from one foot to the other.. sort of a 60's dance .....:-) Herb(still a novice) At 07:00 AM 4/24/2009, you wrote: >Jack Hart- I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of >Poly Fiber materials. As weight was one of your considerations when >you built your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how many >layers, etc.? Your web site is rather vague on it. As it stands >right now, I think I will go with the Piper Trainer Blue as >recommended in the book, but I would like all the advice I can get. > Also, has anyone tried a Wagner electric sprayer for Poly > Tone? The two manuals seem to go either way. I am a "dip it and > drip it" painter. If it drips, it probably won't rust. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > FS 447 >


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:32:53 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    - Herb- Is that with the Wagner, or an air gun?- Will the MEK disolve t he plastics in the gun?- I never had much luck with an air gun, but I get along with the Wagner. - ------------------------- ------------------ Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------ Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------ FS 447


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:32:58 AM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    don't bother to try that electric sprayer. You will be wasting expensive paint. At a minimum buy a cheapo at harbor freight. Borrow or rent a compressor if you need more capacity. I think they now offer a HVLP system now but don't know if it's any good. BB On 24, Apr 2009, at 8:00 AM, william sullivan wrote: > Jack Hart- I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of > Poly Fiber materials. As weight was one of your considerations > when you built your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how > many layers, etc.? Your web site is rather vague on it. As it > stands right now, I think I will go with the Piper Trainer Blue as > recommended in the book, but I would like all the advice I can get. > Also, has anyone tried a Wagner electric sprayer for Poly Tone? > The two manuals seem to go either way. I am a "dip it and drip it" > painter. If it drips, it probably won't rust. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > FS 447 > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:37:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    ropermike wrote: > I have a puzzler for all you 503 2-stroke guys with a lot more experience with these engines than I. I have a Kolb MkII with a 503 DCDI with 317 hrs. I bought the plane a couple of years ago with 180 hrs on it and entered the 2-stroke world. The engine has always ran excellent for me. I attended a repairmen-inspection coarse a couple of months ago where I complained to the instructor (Brian Carpenter) that my CHTs where very low and rarely reached 200 F. He said my EIS was probably not working right so this past week I have I set out to get to the bottom of it. > > ENGINE DATA > Fuel.fresh reg unleaded. > Oil... premix with Penn Outdoor Engine Oil 50.1 > PlugsOld plugs not fouled but a little darker than I would like. Installed new plugs. > CarbEverything is stock. Main jet 155 as per Rotax chart for 3,000 msl at 70* 2.74 Needle Jets with 8L2 Jet Needles. Needle clip in the top slot. Rubber O-ring on top of clips is installed. > GaugesEIS digital system with duel CHTs and EGTs. > Compression....127 and 123 > Prop....66" two blade warp drive. > > Before tinkering with the engine, on 70 degree day at 3,000 msl, climbout CHTs were running about 180. EGTs about 1100. Cruise at 5000 rpm was 170 and 1000. > > First, I ran a static test. At full throttle, RPMs came up to 6800 and started to go over until I backed off. Great! I found the problem! Under propped. > > I added a little pitch to my 66 warp drive ground adjustable prop and static tested again. This time RPM was 6200 at full throttle. I thought this would surely bring those CHTs up. It did, all the way to 200. My EGTs were running 1050. By the way, OAT was 80 and I ran full throttle for at least 8 minutes until the CHTs leveled off and would not climb any more. I thought surely my EIS CHTs was giving me the wrong reading as Brian Carpenter had suggested. > > Next morning, I borrowed a fancy infrared digital temperature gauge, the kind that you point and pull the trigger and put the red dot just where you want to know the temp. I tied up the plane and before I started up, I turned on the master switch and looked at my EIS. CHTs were both 73*. EGTs were both 73*. OAT at this time was about 78*. I shot the cyl head as close to the spark plug as I could get with the fancy borrowed handheld infrared temp gauge and it red 73*. Hmmm. I started up and warmed the engine up gradually. When the CHTs finally reached and leveled off at 200, I idled back and let it cool down a little to 180* then killed the engine. I jumped out and checked the cylinder head with the fancy gauge and it read 188*. I checked and rechecked running back and forth from cyl head to EIS for at least an hr and came to the conclusion my EIS was reading the same as the handheld probe, or at least within 10 degrees.I also ran the engine at 5,000 RPM to check the mid-range. CHTs would back off to 180 and EGTs would run about 950* (clip is in the uppermost position on the needle)..I decided the EIS gauges were good. > > I decided then to try a smaller main jet. I took out the 155s and put in 150s. (I did not have 152s). I tested again and topped out at 230* CHT and 1150* EGT at full throttle. RPMs were 6300 instead of 6200. At 5000 rpm, CHTs cooled down to 200* and EGTs were at 1000*. > > I feel the need to have my CHTs in the 300-375 range. Im also reluctant to try smaller jets as Ive been preached at to stay as close to stock and the Rotax charts as possible. I have ordered new needles and needle jets but the old ones look fine. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to get the CHTs up or should I just fly the damn thing and quit worrying about it! > > Thanks in advance, Mike Are those temps centigrade? If so, 200 would be 392F, not anomolous but pretty close to siezure..... You want the CHT's to be around 300F and this is generally where the 503 will run after it's broken in with correct jetting and propping. Your EGT's and propping sound about right, 1050 to 1150 is pretty good (I liked it 1050 to 1100). 325F is the limit of my personal comfort (but still ok) and 350F is where I land and start looking for a problem. 375 to 400F will bring that TBO way way down below the rated 300 hours...... So that's my WAG - you're measuring in C? LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241020#241020


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:37:13 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    - Bob- I can get the compressor.- I never used an HVLP gun.- The regu lar Binks style is what I have used, but I may have well used a roller.- - ------------------------- --------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- --------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- --------------- FS 447


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:46:58 AM PST US
    From: Herb <herbgh@nctc.com>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    I do not think the Wagner will do the job?? run abt 60 psi on your sprayer.. plus sor minus... Herb At 08:28 AM 4/24/2009, you wrote: > Herb- Is that with the Wagner, or an air gun? Will the MEK > disolve the plastics in the gun? I never had much luck with an air > gun, but I get along with the Wagner. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > FS 447 >


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:10:31 AM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    Practice with paint thinner/brush cleaner on a cardboard box or sheet of plywood. The first problem to stay ahead of is the little plastic loop on the top vent hole. Make sure that is breathing at all times. Between uses always flush with reducer, put a couple of inches of reducer in the cup and leave the nozzle assembly inside when done for the day. After you are finished with the project store it dry because it will dry out anyway. One control screw is for total volume (trigger range) and the other is for pattern fan. Run at least 50 lbs. A regulator should be inline close to the gun because a long hose will give too much pressure drop. If you haven't painted in over a year expect to experience another learning cycle each time. BB On 24, Apr 2009, at 9:36 AM, william sullivan wrote: > Bob- I can get the compressor. I never used an HVLP gun. The > regular Binks style is what I have used, but I may have well used a > roller. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > FS 447 > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:33:56 AM PST US
    Subject: INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!!
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    Here is recent video from Florida, it was in a Skyranger, not a Kolb. This is enough to make one think, an engine failure can happen very quickly and at anytime ! This guy did a great job, tried to restart the engine while he had the time, which gained him enough extra distance to make the road he did end up landing on. Lost of luck there were no lines or traffic there, but this is a really great video where everything worked out right. As always with you tube, the video quality will be HORRIBLE unless you click the " HQ " box at the bottom right of the video, and then make it full screen by clicking the other box also on the bottom right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT58Di51wDk Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241041#241041


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:49:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "ropermike" <ropermike2002@yahoo.com>
    I do not have an operators manual for the EIS system but I have gone thru all the menus and cant find any way for it to be changed to Centigrade.....I believe it to be measuring in F because the hand held infrared temp gauge confirmed the readings in F, it actually says F on the digital readout....I agree with your CHT preferences.....Thanks -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241044#241044


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:55:13 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kolb-List:_503_low_CHT=99s_dilemma!?
    At 05:12 AM 4/24/09 -0700, you wrote: >Plugs: Old plugs not fouled but a little darker than I would like. Installed new plugs. > >I decided then to try a smaller main jet. I took out the 155s and put in 150s. (I did not have 152s). I tested again and topped out at 230* CHT and 1150* EGT at full throttle. RPMs were 6300 instead of 6200. At 5000 rpm, CHTs cooled down to 200* and EGTs were at 1000*. > >I feel the need to have my CHTs in the 300-375 range. Im also reluctant to try smaller jets as Ive been preached at to stay as close to stock and the Rotax charts as possible. I have ordered new needles and needle jets but the old ones look fine. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to get the CHTs up or should I just fly the damn thing and quit worrying about it! > Mike, Your plugs indicate it is running rich. You have not mentioned that you have dropped the needle to try and lean out the mid range. I would try this and see what happens. I would not change the main jet as you want to be able to drop the EGT with full throttle in case the mid rpm range EGT's get too high. If dropping the needle one slot change is too large, you can still move in the right direction by using shims that will move the needle a quarter of a slot at one time. I used this method on a 447 and continue to use it on my Victor 1+. I was running 1200 degrees F EGT's on the 447. How this can be done can be seen at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly58.html By running too rich overall, combustion temperature will go down and less work can be obtainned. If your fuel is greater than 87 octane, change to 87 octane. It will increase the speed of combustion and produce more useable work. Always read your plugs until you have found the sweet spot. FWIW Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:12:52 AM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!!
    that got my heart beat up and I never left this chair! BB do not archive On 24, Apr 2009, at 10:33 AM, JetPilot wrote: > > Here is recent video from Florida, it was in a Skyranger, not a > Kolb. This is enough to make one think, an engine failure can > happen very quickly and at anytime ! > > This guy did a great job, tried to restart the engine while he had > the time, which gained him enough extra distance to make the road > he did end up landing on. Lost of luck there were no lines or > traffic there, but this is a really great video where everything > worked out right. > > As always with you tube, the video quality will be HORRIBLE unless > you click the " HQ " box at the bottom right of the video, and then > make it full screen by clicking the other box also on the bottom > right. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT58Di51wDk > > Mike > > -------- > &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241041#241041 > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 08:16:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!!
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    JetPilot wrote: > Here is recent video from Florida, it was in a Skyranger, not a Kolb. This is enough to make one think, an engine failure can happen very quickly and at anytime ! > > This guy did a great job, tried to restart the engine while he had the time, which gained him enough extra distance to make the road he did end up landing on. Lost of luck there were no lines or traffic there, but this is a really great video where everything worked out right. > > As always with you tube, the video quality will be HORRIBLE unless you click the " HQ " box at the bottom right of the video, and then make it full screen by clicking the other box also on the bottom right. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT58Di51wDk > > Mike Eeyikes, I get nervous flying over a town that low even underneath my 912.... Glad there was a clear highway to land on. And most glad that everyone is ok. I'd be curious as to what caused the engine-out. Looks/sounds like a fuel starvation even to me.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241054#241054


    Message 20


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    Time: 08:24:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low CHT dilemma
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Bill, There is a Service Bulletin (or instruction) that covers the o-ring installation on the jet needle. It's there to inhibit the needle from spinning if the clip is a little loose. I have found needles almost worn in two by this rotation. Of course if that happens the needle will drop into the jet and really ruin your day if you happen to be in the air at that moment, i.e. engine quits.Look on the ROAN site for the bulletin. The gist of it is to inspect the needle and see if it will rotate in the clip. If it does, replace the needle and the clip. The o-ring just sits on top of the clip and is compressed by the spring cup. Rick On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 8:06 AM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>wrote: > Mike- You mentioned an "O" ring on top of the clip. I just had mine > apart, andthat "O" ring. The parts book does show it, but does not indicate > where it goes. Does it go in the top #1 slot of the needle? This is part > #831-715. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > FS 447 > > * > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 08:48:36 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Stits
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net> > Jack Hart- I am doing some planning, prior to purchasing a lot of Poly Fiber materials. As weight was one of your considerations when you built your Firefly, what did you select for materials, how many layers, etc.? Your web site is rather vague on it. As it stands right now, I think I will go with the Piper Trainer Blue as recommended in the book, but I would like all the advice I can get. > Bill, I brushed on the first coat of sealer, then I sprayed the second coat of sealer on all surfaces. I sprayed two coats of aluminum on the top surfaces of the wings and tail feathers. This was followed by two coats color and all surfaces. The aluminum and color coats where sprayed cross hatched to each other. Also all sprayed coats were very light. I had never sprayed anything before. I purchased a cheapie gravity flow gun from someone like Harbor Freight. I practiced some on the wall of my shop and then went at it. The biggest problem is organization. Except the cage, I hung all parts from the roof truss. This let me spray on to vertical surfaces. I started spraying sealer on one side and then I would move the part(s) over along the truss so that I could paint the opposite side, then a wing and the second wing. Then I moved all the parts back to the starting point. Then I dumped the gun out and blew it out with thinner and filled it with aluminum. By this time the minimum them between coats had passed. Sprayed the wall to bring in the aluminum and repeated the process. After the two coats of aluminum, I did the same thing with color. From start to finish it took around six hours. To be able to do this I borrowed a fresh air breathing pump with a full face mask. It had about a 40' hose. One had move in patterned way so that it did not get tangled. I had a paint bench that would hold the gun while filling. The biggest problem was that the leading edges of the wings were about two feet off the floor, so I had to do a lot of knee bends. When I finished and opened the door to let the natural light in, I was alarmed in that the color did not look good and the fabric tension would be best described as limp. In disappointment, I went to the house to get cleaned up. An hour or so later I went back down to the shop and discovered things were looking better. Two days later it looked great. By spraying multiple coats in quick succession the solvents could not vent from the wing interior. They worked on the Dacron and turned it into a limp dish rag. But as the solvents perked out and the paint cured, the Dacron tightened up and the color lightened to what I thought I had purchased. I ended up with some runs, and I know where they are. Fly-in crowds will look it over and then they will ask, if I built it. I say "yes", and they do not mention the runs. Next question is "How does it fly?", and of course I say "great". Hope this helps. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:49:58 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    - Jack- Did you use Poly Tone or Aerothene?- You ought to write all tha t up for your web site.- Thanks. - ------------------------- ---------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ---------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ---------------- FS 447


    Message 23


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    Time: 10:09:01 AM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    At 07:51 AM 4/24/2009, william sullivan wrote: > Richard Pike- First, how is Ed doing? Was he wearing a four point > belt, or a six point? The cage collapsed almost exactly like mine. I > was only wearing a lap belt, and that was probably what broke my > pelvis. I can see shoulder straps in the photos. Also, what broke Ed's > leg- the nose cone? I had marks on my shins from the cone, but no breaks. Sounds like a common result. When my friends crashed in the MKIII, the results were broken legs, ankle, and pelvis. Of course, they went in straighter and harder than you or Ed did. -Dana -- It did what? Well, it's not supposed to do that.


    Message 24


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    Time: 10:12:15 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net> > Jack- Did you use Poly Tone or Aerothene? You ought to write all that up for your web site. Thanks. > Poly Tone Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:33:28 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    - Dana- What's the progress on your friends? - ------------------------- ------------ Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------ Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------ FS 447 do not archive


    Message 26


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    Time: 10:49:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low CHT dilemma
    From: "ropermike" <ropermike2002@yahoo.com>
    My jet needle has 4 slots. The o-ring goes in the top slot. -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241087#241087


    Message 27


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    Time: 10:56:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "ropermike" <ropermike2002@yahoo.com>
    Jack, thanks for the reply. My clip is already in the top slot. Even with the 150 main jets, my EGT's come down about 100 degrees when I go from full throttle to 5000 rpms. I'm burning fresh 87 octaine car gas. -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241089#241089


    Message 28


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    Time: 12:15:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    ropermike wrote: > Jack, thanks for the reply. My clip is already in the top slot. Even with the 150 main jets, my EGT's come down about 100 degrees when I go from full throttle to 5000 rpms. I'm burning fresh 87 octaine car gas. Er, is the engine putting out full power? I just can't see how the CHT's can stay that low at 40 to 50 hp output, that's just physically impossible even if the OAT is 0F. I flew my FS II on near years day here one year at it was 11F - I still managed about 280F CHT's at cruise rpm's of 5500..... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241100#241100


    Message 29


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    Time: 01:54:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: INCREDIBLE engine fialure video from Florida !!!
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    lucien wrote: > > Eeyikes, I get nervous flying over a town that low even underneath my 912.... Glad there was a clear highway to land on. And most glad that everyone is ok. > > I'd be curious as to what caused the engine-out. Looks/sounds like a fuel starvation even to me.... > > LS I'm with you on both counts Lucien. I have never flown my Kolb over Miami or any of its suburbs, I just wont fly were the only landing option is on top of someones roof. ( Roads are not an option, we have constant traffic here, 24/7 ). It does sound like the carb bowl ran dry, and started to fill up a after each the engine had been stopped for a bit, and then run dry again upon restart. At the end of the video you can hear his Electric Facet Pump is running as he is shutting everything down [Shocked] Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241120#241120


    Message 30


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    Time: 01:55:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "olendorf" <olendorf@gmail.com>
    Try putting your CHT sender in a can of boiling water and see what reading you get. -------- Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop Schenectady, NY http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241121#241121


    Message 31


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    Time: 03:21:53 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: utf-8?Q?Re:__Kolb-List:_503_low_CHT=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s_dilemma!?
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Mike, =C2- What puzzles me is why your full throttle egts are higher than crui se egts.At full throttle you should be seeing egts under 1100.=C2- =C2 -=C2- Does the carb slide move all the way up at full throttle? It sho uld be clear of the bore by about 1/4 inch so that last bit of travel does nothing but pull the needle out to its richest position.A lightly loaded prop should make the chts low but the egts higher. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- My 503 ran 500 hrs and only saw 300 cht once or twice. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Good luck G.A man -----Original Message----- From: ropermike <ropermike2002@yahoo.com> Sent: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 8:12 am Subject: Kolb-List: 503 low CHT=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s dilemma! I have a puzzler for all you 503 2-stroke guys with a lot more experience with these engines than I. I have a Kolb MkII with a 503 DCDI with 317 hrs. I bought the plane a couple of years ago with 180 hrs on it and entered the 2-strok e world. The engine has always ran excellent for me. I attended a repairmen-inspection coarse a couple of months ago where I complained to the instructor (Brian Carpenter) that my CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s where ve ry low and rarely reached 200 F. He said my EIS was probably not working right so this past week I have I set out to get to the bottom of it. ENGINE DAT A Fuel=C3=A2=82=AC=C2.fresh reg unleaded. Oil=C3=A2=82=AC=C2... premix with Penn Outdoor Engine Oil 50.1 Plugs=C3=A2=82=AC=C2Old plugs not fouled but a little darker than I would like. Installed new plugs. Carb=C3=A2=82=AC=C2Everything is stock. Main jet 155 as per Rotax ch art for 3,000 msl at 70*=C3=A2=82=AC=C2 2.74 Needle Jets with 8L2 Jet Needles. Needl e clip in the top slot. Rubber O-ring on top of clips is installed. Gauges=C3=A2=82=AC=C2EIS digital system with duel CHT=C3=A2=82=AC =84=A2s and EGT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s. Compression....127 and 123 Prop....66" two blade warp drive. Before tinkering with the engine, on 70 degree day at 3,000=C3=A2=82=AC =84=A2 msl, climbout CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s were running about 180. EGT=C3=A2=82=AC =84=A2s about 1100. Cruise at 5000 rpm was 170 and 1000. First, I ran a static test. At full throttle, RPM=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s came up to 6800 and started to go over until I backed off. Great! I found the problem! Under propped. I added a little pitch to my 66=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D warp drive ground adj ustable prop and static tested again. This time RPM was 6200 at full throttle. I thought this woul d surely bring those CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s up. It did, all the way to 200. My EGT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s were running 1050. By the way, OAT was 80 and I ran full throttle for at least 8 minutes until the CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s leveled off and would not climb any more. I thought surely my EIS CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s=2 0was giving me the wrong reading as Brian Carpenter had suggested. Next morning, I borrowed a fancy infrared digital temperature gauge, the kind that you point and pull the trigger and put the red dot just where you wan t to know the temp. I tied up the plane and before I started up, I turned on th e master switch and looked at my EIS. CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s were both 73*. EGT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s were both 73*. OAT at this time was about 78*. I shot the cyl head as close to the spark plug as I could get with the fancy borrowed handheld infrared temp gauge and it red 73*. Hmmm. I started up and warmed the engine up gradually. When the CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s finally reached and leveled off at 200, I idled back and let it cool down a little to 180* then killed the engine. I jumped out and checked the cylind er head with the fancy gauge and it read 188*. I checked and rechecked runnin g back and forth from cyl head to EIS for at least an hr and came to the conclusi on my EIS was reading the same as the handheld probe, or at least within 10 degrees=C3=A2=82=AC=C2.I also ran the engine at 5,000 RPM to check the mid-range. CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s would back off to 180 and EGT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s would run about 950 * (clip is in the uppermost position on the needle)=C3=A2=82=AC=C2..I decided the EIS gauges wer e good. I decided then to try a smaller main jet. I took out the 155=C3=A2=82 =AC=84=A2s and put in 150=C3=A2=82=AC s. (I did not have 152=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s). I tested again and toppe d out at 230* CHT and 1150* EGT at full throttle. RPM=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s were 6300 instead of 6200. At 5000 rpm, CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s cooled down to 200* and EGT=C3=A2=82=AC =84=A2s were at 1000*. I feel the need to have my CHT=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s in the 300-375 ran ge. I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m also reluctant to try smaller jets as I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve been preached at to stay as close to stock and the Rotax charts as possible. I have ordered new needles and needle jets but the old ones look fine. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to get the CHT=C3 =A2=82=AC=84=A2s up or should I just fly the damn thing and quit worrying about it! Thanks in advance, Mike -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241010#241010 ======================== =========== =============3D=========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========


    Message 32


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    Time: 05:33:06 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Kolb crash yesterday
    At 01:31 PM 4/24/2009, william sullivan wrote: > Dana- What's the progress on your friends? Bob (the pilot) was walking without a cane when I saw him a couple of weeks ago; he disassembled what was left and hauled the wreckage home. However, he was going back into the hospital; the doctors planned to rebreak his ankle (ouch!) because they didn't like the way he was healing. Dave has pretty much recovered by now. -Dana do not archive -- Those who CAN remember the past are condemned to live among idiots repeating it.


    Message 33


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    Time: 05:48:01 PM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kolb-List:_503_low_CHT=99s_dilemma!?
    At 10:56 AM 4/24/09 -0700, you wrote: > >Jack, thanks for the reply. My clip is already in the top slot. > In this case, you may want to change the needle jet one step smaller. It is not expensive item. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 34


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    Time: 07:18:18 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "ropermike" <ropermike2002@yahoo.com>
    I dont understand it either! I do have new needles and needle jets coming. Maybe that will make a difference. I will check on the carb slide travel to make sure I'm getting fulll throttle in the morning. Thanks for the help, Mike -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241161#241161


    Message 35


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    Time: 07:21:55 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 503 low =?ISO-8859-1?Q?CHT=99s?= dilemma!
    From: "ropermike" <ropermike2002@yahoo.com>
    I will order two in the morning. Thanks Jack. -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241162#241162


    Message 36


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    Time: 08:34:21 PM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Stits
    Bill, One other thought. At my old EAA chapter in south east Missouri some builders used polytone through the first sealing coat and then finished out the rest with latex paint. Most used rollers of various sizes and came up with very attractive color combinations. They claimed good cost savings. No air compressor or gun. Did not have to work with a mask, and latex clean up was water. For UV protection they used black latex on the upper surfaces. All of my FireFly fairings are covered with a Dacron party dress material, organza. It is glued to the surface with red house latex paint. I ran some tests, and discovered that after curing three days that when I tried to peal the organza from the underlying foam, the failure occurred in the foam. Before that time, the organza would peel from, up, and through the latex. FWIW Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN




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