Today's Message Index:
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1. 02:53 AM - Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (pj.ladd)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (zeprep251@aol.com)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (zeprep251@aol.com)
4. 06:11 AM - Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (russ kinne)
5. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
6. 09:52 AM - Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (lucien)
7. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
8. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (John Hauck)
9. 12:19 PM - Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (lucien)
10. 12:21 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (John Hauck)
11. 12:41 PM - private message...Wade Lawacki.. (Herb)
12. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
13. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (HShack@aol.com)
14. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: props (HShack@aol.com)
15. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
16. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (John Hauck)
17. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Ron)
18. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Denny Rowe)
19. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Herb)
20. 06:35 PM - Re: props (JetPilot)
21. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (zeprep251@aol.com)
22. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (zeprep251@aol.com)
23. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (Denny Rowe)
24. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (HShack@aol.com)
25. 08:33 PM - Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (lucien)
26. 08:41 PM - Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII (lucien)
27. 09:05 PM - Re: Monument Valley (WillUribe@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
The lower frequency noises produced by the Jabiru are also much easer to
filer out with available ANR headsets.>>
Hi,
thanks for the input but its not the noise in the cockpit , it is the
noise outside which is the problem.
Noise problems are probably more important in Europe than they are in
the US. All microlights have to pass a noise test and have a certificate
issued and the Kolb, and my old Challenger with the 503, only just
squeaked in.
Most complaints from groups trying to get airfields closed, and there
are a lot of them, are based on the noise factor.
Were it not for the fact that I have been flying from the same field for
20 years I am sure that the farmer who owns it would have asked me to
move out. I never do circuits. Fire up and fly away is the rule.
I would love to have enough spare weight allowance to cowl the engine
completely.
Pat
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Pat,
? I think your observations on pushers being louder is obviously accurate.The Lake
amphibian,the Seabee and and the Cessna 337 can all be identified by a blindfolded
librarian at 5 miles range.
???????? G.Aman,still happy about the com.
-----Original Message-----
From: pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 5:50 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jabiru Powered MKIII
The lower frequency noises produced by the Jabiru
are also much easer to filer out with available ANR
headsets.>>
?
Hi,
thanks for the input but its not the noise in the
cockpit , it is the noise outside which is the problem.
Noise problems are probably more important in
Europe than they are in the US. All microlights have to pass a noise test and
have a certificate issued and the Kolb, and my old Challenger with the
503,? only just squeaked in.
?
Most complaints from groups trying to get airfields
closed, and there are a lot of them, are based on the noise factor.
Were it not for the fact that I have been flying
from the same field for 20 years I am sure that the farmer who owns it would
have asked me to move out. I never do circuits. Fire up and fly away ?is
the rule.
?
I would love to have enough spare weight allowance
to cowl the engine completely.
?
Pat
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Well Chris,we get our 15 minutes of fame! Are you happy with the Jab?
? G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: ces308 <ces308@ldaco.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 1:00 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
What??? Am I reading this right??? lol What about the JABIRU??
chris ambrose
M3X-Jabiru
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242023#242023
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Pat
Does your 'spare weight allowance' refer to empty wt. or gross wt?
Russ
do not archive
On Apr 30, 2009, at 8:20 AM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
> Pat,
> I think your observations on pushers being louder is obviously
> accurate.The Lake amphibian,the Seabee and and the Cessna 337 can
> all be identified by a blindfolded librarian at 5 miles range.
> G.Aman,still happy about the com.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 5:50 am
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jabiru Powered MKIII
>
> The lower frequency noises produced by the Jabiru are also much
> easer to filer out with available ANR headsets.>>
>
> Hi,
> thanks for the input but its not the noise in the cockpit , it is
> the noise outside which is the problem.
> Noise problems are probably more important in Europe than they are
> in the US. All microlights have to pass a noise test and have a
> certificate issued and the Kolb, and my old Challenger with the
> 503, only just squeaked in.
>
> Most complaints from groups trying to get airfields closed, and
> there are a lot of them, are based on the noise factor.
> Were it not for the fact that I have been flying from the same
> field for 20 years I am sure that the farmer who owns it would have
> asked me to move out. I never do circuits. Fire up and fly away is
> the rule.
>
> I would love to have enough spare weight allowance to cowl the
> engine completely.
>
> Pat
>
>
> Can't afford a new spring wardrobe? Go shopping in your closet
> instead!
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Pat & Chris
You need to get out more. Yes our Kolbs are all noisy but in comparison,
Gary's was a bit quieter than some other Kolbs. Seems like Gary has a
barrier right behind the cockpit and his Senrich prop must also help.
Again I'm talking about inside the cockpit. If there were thousands of
planes circling a island all the time I'm sure we would introduce noise
limits too.
As for performance I flew with and watched John W's Jabiru powered Kolbra
fly in and out of a short strip in Michigan's UP. It was noisy and very
under powered, very scary. I know there is 5 more HP in the newer model
Jabirus but that doesn't explain the improvement I have seen in two newer
Jabiru powered MKIIIs. Not 912 level performance but good. The only thing I
can think of is the prop. Now this going to piss the Warp Drive guys off but
it has to be the low performance of the WD prop that John W was using. Sure
do miss John Williamson.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:00 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
>
> What??? Am I reading this right??? lol What about the JABIRU??
>
> chris ambrose
> M3X-Jabiru
> N327CS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242023#242023
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Pat & Chris
>
> You need to get out more. Yes our Kolbs are all noisy but in comparison,
> Gary's was a bit quieter than some other Kolbs. Seems like Gary has a
> barrier right behind the cockpit and his Senrich prop must also help.
>
> Again I'm talking about inside the cockpit. If there were thousands of
> planes circling a island all the time I'm sure we would introduce noise
> limits too.
>
> As for performance I flew with and watched John W's Jabiru powered Kolbra
> fly in and out of a short strip in Michigan's UP. It was noisy and very
> under powered, very scary. I know there is 5 more HP in the newer model
> Jabirus but that doesn't explain the improvement I have seen in two newer
> Jabiru powered MKIIIs. Not 912 level performance but good. The only thing I
> can think of is the prop. Now this going to piss the Warp Drive guys off but
> it has to be the low performance of the WD prop that John W was using. Sure
> do miss John Williamson.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> ---
I'd be more inclined to think it was the lower diameter myself. I think the typical
prop diameter for the jab is 60" or perhaps even less, definitely not a good
climb configuration for the flight characteristics of the Kolb.
Despite the vibration problems I'm having with my WD, the performance is nothing
short of spectacular. And the WD worked really well on my FS II also.
Too bad the jab doesn't have a good gear reduction, a-la the old continental GO-300.
It'd be a monster of a motor for slower climbers I'd be willing to bet.....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242104#242104
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Lucien
It is tip speed, turbulence and a bit of black art of prop design that
determines how much HP is turned into noise. The Jabiru turns its prop at a
higher RPM so it has to turn a smaller diameter prop to keep its tip speed
down. My direct drive VW with a 60" prop would go supersonic at the prop
tips in a heart beat and noise that would wake the dead.
Yes I know your WD is spectacular but you might be surprised just how much
better performance could be had with a more efficient prop. You have so much
extra power with your redrive Rotax that you can be real happy with lower
prop efficiency.
Redrives in airplanes when done right are wonderful. The continental engine
probably did more to hurt the reputation of redrives than anything. Redrives
aren't just great for the slower airplane group. The RR Merlin, and most of
the big radial engines in WWII airplanes had redrives and they were not what
I would call slow airplanes
This is a good rainy day discussion.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
>
>
> NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote:
>> Pat & Chris
>>
>> You need to get out more. Yes our Kolbs are all noisy but in comparison,
>> Gary's was a bit quieter than some other Kolbs. Seems like Gary has a
>> barrier right behind the cockpit and his Senrich prop must also help.
>>
>> Again I'm talking about inside the cockpit. If there were thousands of
>> planes circling a island all the time I'm sure we would introduce noise
>> limits too.
>>
>> As for performance I flew with and watched John W's Jabiru powered Kolbra
>> fly in and out of a short strip in Michigan's UP. It was noisy and very
>> under powered, very scary. I know there is 5 more HP in the newer model
>> Jabirus but that doesn't explain the improvement I have seen in two newer
>> Jabiru powered MKIIIs. Not 912 level performance but good. The only thing
>> I
>> can think of is the prop. Now this going to piss the Warp Drive guys off
>> but
>> it has to be the low performance of the WD prop that John W was using.
>> Sure
>> do miss John Williamson.
>>
>> Rick Neilsen
>> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>>
>> ---
>
>
> I'd be more inclined to think it was the lower diameter myself. I think
> the typical prop diameter for the jab is 60" or perhaps even less,
> definitely not a good climb configuration for the flight characteristics
> of the Kolb.
>
> Despite the vibration problems I'm having with my WD, the performance is
> nothing short of spectacular. And the WD worked really well on my FS II
> also.
>
> Too bad the jab doesn't have a good gear reduction, a-la the old
> continental GO-300. It'd be a monster of a motor for slower climbers I'd
> be willing to bet.....
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242104#242104
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Now this going to piss the Warp Drive guys off but
> it has to be the low performance of the WD prop that John W was using.
> Sure do miss John Williamson.
>
> Rick Neilsen
Rick:
Me too.
John W had to use a very tiny two blade prop with the Jab powered Kolbra.
When he installed the 912ULS, he also added a 68" 3 blade fast taper prop.
I have said many times before. Cruise speed with John W's Jab was about the
same as my mkIII with 912ULS. However, there was absolutely no comparison
between take off and climb between our two airplanes. Took John W forever
to get off the ground and get some altitude.
All that changes when John W upgraded to a 912ULS. He out climbed and out
ran me bad.....
john h
mkIII - Ready to fuel up, load, and head West.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Lucien
>
> It is tip speed, turbulence and a bit of black art of prop design that
> determines how much HP is turned into noise. The Jabiru turns its prop at a
> higher RPM so it has to turn a smaller diameter prop to keep its tip speed
> down. My direct drive VW with a 60" prop would go supersonic at the prop
> tips in a heart beat and noise that would wake the dead.
>
> Yes I know your WD is spectacular but you might be surprised just how much
> better performance could be had with a more efficient prop. You have so much
> extra power with your redrive Rotax that you can be real happy with lower
> prop efficiency.
>
> Redrives in airplanes when done right are wonderful. The continental engine
> probably did more to hurt the reputation of redrives than anything. Redrives
> aren't just great for the slower airplane group. The RR Merlin, and most of
> the big radial engines in WWII airplanes had redrives and they were not what
> I would call slow airplanes
>
> This is a good rainy day discussion.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
> ---
Well next week I'll be fitting the strongest pusher on the market to my plane (powerfin
F model) in an effort to debug (hopefully fix) my harmonics problem with
non-IVO props. So I'm expecting the "up" to be very good, tho I'm guessing
(and expecting) it won't do as well in the "forward" department (if it runs smooth,
I won't care).
But yes the WD is a compromise. It has the widest speed range you can get in a
fix pitch so sure it has less thrust at very low speed regimes. But it really
works well overall performance-wise.
When operated right, the geared continental is a fine engine that pulls the 170
and 175 around real well. Back in TX, one of the locals had a 175 with that motor
in it. It was lugged a lot like most of them and had to be given a top somewhere
midway to TBO. But after that, once she learnt how to run it (spin it
up to the 3200 rpm range), it gave her no trouble and the performance of the plane
was fine. But you're right it got a bad rap because of poor training in its
use.
I appreciate the Jab's simplicity with the direct drive for sure, but with a redrive
it'd compete pretty well with the 912 series as far as performance on a
wider array of planes, IMO. The 3300 would just be a monster........
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242140#242140
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
> Yes I know your WD is spectacular but you might be surprised just how
much
> better performance could be had with a more efficient prop. You have so
> much extra power with your redrive Rotax that you can be real happy with
> lower prop efficiency.
>
>
> Rick Neilsen
How did you come up with this earth shattering bit of info.
I am devastated, having flown so many hours with an inefficient prop.
Guess the other wooden props I flew with were even more inefficient.
Damn, you have ruined my day. How will I ever fly to MV with a WD.
Last year at the Kolb Homecoming, Steven Green challenged me to a flat out
top speed race. We started side by side and stayed that way until I
eventually went full throttle and left Steven, his mkIII, his 912ULS, and
his big Ivo two blade prop.
Still looking for something better, but haven't found it yet.
Wonderful blue bird afternoon at hauck's holler, alabama.
john h
mkIII
Message 11
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| Subject: | private message...Wade Lawacki.. |
Guys
need to contact Wade Lawacki off list....Wade give me a shout.!! Herb
do not archive...
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
John
Really didn't want to ruin your day but I know you are just joking.
The first bit of info came from Steve Bennet at Great Plains Aircraft. He
did a apples to apples comparison test as close as he could with Warp Drive,
PowerFin, and IVO props. The IVO gave the least thrust, then Warp Drive,
then PowerFin giving the most.
The second comes from my not to scientific observations of Warp Drive and
Senrich props on Jabiru powered Kolbs. The performance is considerably
better than John W got with his Kolbra and that 5 extra HP wouldn't account
for all of it. Again a redrive on a Jabiru would help a bunch more.
I also know first hand that wood props can be turned into real expensive
tooth picks. It is also worth knowing that you can put objects through the
prop and still fly home.
Have a great safe flight.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
>
>
> > Yes I know your WD is spectacular but you might be surprised just how
> much
>> better performance could be had with a more efficient prop. You have so
>> much extra power with your redrive Rotax that you can be real happy with
>> lower prop efficiency.
>>
> >
>> Rick Neilsen
>
>
> How did you come up with this earth shattering bit of info.
>
> I am devastated, having flown so many hours with an inefficient prop.
>
> Guess the other wooden props I flew with were even more inefficient.
>
> Damn, you have ruined my day. How will I ever fly to MV with a WD.
>
> Last year at the Kolb Homecoming, Steven Green challenged me to a flat out
> top speed race. We started side by side and stayed that way until I
> eventually went full throttle and left Steven, his mkIII, his 912ULS, and
> his big Ivo two blade prop.
>
> Still looking for something better, but haven't found it yet.
>
> Wonderful blue bird afternoon at hauck's holler, alabama.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Well, If you expect anything to go thru the Powerfin & still fly home-good
luck [not saying anything about performance].
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/30/2009 4:03:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
NeilsenRM@comcast.net writes:
I also know first hand that wood props can be turned into real expensive
tooth picks. It is also worth knowing that you can put objects through the
prop and still fly home.
**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
Message 14
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So, how much? And is the prop the Rotax 912S pattern?
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/28/2009 11:09:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
I am selling the prop, and extension, with everything needed to mount it
to a Rotax 912-s. Its a 72 inch prop.
**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Howard
I had a 9/16 X 2.5 in bolt go through my PowerFin and it got me the
remaining 400 miles home. I had the damaged blade at the Kolb Homecoming
a few years ago. In all honesty it hit mid span and did put a big ding
in the blade so I guess I had your "good luck".
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: HShack@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
Well, If you expect anything to go thru the Powerfin & still fly
home-good luck [not saying anything about performance].
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/30/2009 4:03:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
NeilsenRM@comcast.net writes:
I also know first hand that wood props can be turned into real
expensive
tooth picks. It is also worth knowing that you can put objects
through the
prop and still fly home.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
the Radio Toolbar!
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
> The first bit of info came from Steve Bennet at Great Plains Aircraft. He
> did a apples to apples comparison test as close as he could with Warp
> Drive, PowerFin, and IVO props. The IVO gave the least thrust, then Warp
> Drive, then PowerFin giving the most.
>
>
> Rick Neilsen
I wouldn't bet all my apples on a "static" test. It tells only how much
force is applied to a scale, not what the prop is actually doing in a flying
situation a a specific airplane.
My WD will pull 5400 rpm static, the way it is set now. Soon after I start
my takeoff roll it pulls 100 rpm off the engine. Probably because the air
is getting cleaner and it is getting a better bite. How important is that
in comparison? I haven't the slightest idea, but it does it.
I am not an engineer. I get my info from getting in the air and flying. ;-
john h
mkIII
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
We just had a big discussion on the FlyGeo list, to include a fellow that some
empirical testing. I personally was not happy with the methodology but his very
careful analysis of props and settings concluded that any criticism of major
brands is groundless, and if there are any performance issues with props they
are a result of nothing more than either pilot technic or proper settings or
propeller for the HP.
That some fellow that has some vested interest in selling props rigged the test
to give the results he wanted is not new or news.
rest assured that any of the major props will deliver the same performance and
any deviations will be the result of something other than the prop itself.
Now if old Yehoopetz built a prop in his pig barn overnight which performed no
better than pig slurry, and then said X-prop was so much better than his 2x4 Bladed
Pig Barn Special, I would hold from concluding anything about the excellence
of X-prop.
Ron @ KFHU
=========================================
---- Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net> wrote:
============
John
Really didn't want to ruin your day but I know you are just joking.
The first bit of info came from Steve Bennet at Great Plains Aircraft. He
did a apples to apples comparison test as close as he could with Warp Drive,
PowerFin, and IVO props. The IVO gave the least thrust, then Warp Drive,
then PowerFin giving the most.
The second comes from my not to scientific observations of Warp Drive and
Senrich props on Jabiru powered Kolbs. The performance is considerably
better than John W got with his Kolbra and that 5 extra HP wouldn't account
for all of it. Again a redrive on a Jabiru would help a bunch more.
I also know first hand that wood props can be turned into real expensive
tooth picks. It is also worth knowing that you can put objects through the
prop and still fly home.
Have a great safe flight.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
>
>
> > Yes I know your WD is spectacular but you might be surprised just how
> much
>> better performance could be had with a more efficient prop. You have so
>> much extra power with your redrive Rotax that you can be real happy with
>> lower prop efficiency.
>>
> >
>> Rick Neilsen
>
>
> How did you come up with this earth shattering bit of info.
>
> I am devastated, having flown so many hours with an inefficient prop.
>
> Guess the other wooden props I flew with were even more inefficient.
>
> Damn, you have ruined my day. How will I ever fly to MV with a WD.
>
> Last year at the Kolb Homecoming, Steven Green challenged me to a flat out
> top speed race. We started side by side and stayed that way until I
> eventually went full throttle and left Steven, his mkIII, his 912ULS, and
> his big Ivo two blade prop.
>
> Still looking for something better, but haven't found it yet.
>
> Wonderful blue bird afternoon at hauck's holler, alabama.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
--
kugelair.com
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Its my understanding that the new Jabs have 10 to 15 more hp than John
Ws early model, not 5 more.
So maybe its not just the props that make a differance.
Dennis Rowe
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
I notice that Culver Props recommends 56 to 62 inch dia props for
Vw's and Jabiru engines.. This is a big efficiency hit ... Redrive
those engines and one can likely turn a 68 to 72 inch prop... Herb
At 07:05 PM 4/30/2009, you wrote:
>Its my understanding that the new Jabs have 10 to 15 more hp than
>John Ws early model, not 5 more.
>So maybe its not just the props that make a differance.
>
>Dennis Rowe
>
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Ted emailed me a couple days ago about this prop, so I will give him first shot
at it. Given what he has been through, I think he need to try a new prop to
see if it solves his problem.
So here is what I will do Ted, if you want the prop, I will sell it to you. If
it works and you are happy with it, great ! If it does not help your plane at
all, and you are just as happy with your Warp Drive, send it back to me undamaged,
and I will give you your money back minus the shipping. Basically this
lets you try the prop risk free, and we are all protected financially.
It is a nice and beautiful prop, I think you will like it. Weather it will solve
your problem or not is anyones guess, but this gives you a way to find out.
Its a 72 inch prop, I had been keeping it for a spare, it is a very nice prop
with beautiful craftsmanship and black finish, it just worries me that its so
light. Let me know if this works for you
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242214#242214
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
LS,
? the 1200hr TBO did not help the 175 much.It's an 0-300,150 hp that makes an extra
25hp if you spin it up another 500rpm.Never saw one in a 170,it needed that
hump in the cowling to clear the gearcase.
-----Original Message-----
From: lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 3:18 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Lucien
>
> It is tip speed, turbulence and a bit of black art of prop design that
> determines how much HP is turned into noise. The Jabiru turns its prop at a
> higher RPM so it has to turn a smaller diameter prop to keep its tip speed
> down. My direct drive VW with a 60" prop would go supersonic at the prop
> tips in a heart beat and noise that would wake the dead.
>
> Yes I know your WD is spectacular but you might be surprised just how much
> better performance could be had with a more efficient prop. You have so much
> extra power with your redrive Rotax that you can be real happy with lower
> prop efficiency.
>
> Redrives in airplanes when done right are wonderful. The continental engine
> probably did more to hurt the reputation of redrives than anything. Redrives
> aren't just great for the slower airplane group. The RR Merlin, and most of
> the big radial engines in WWII airplanes had redrives and they were not what
> I would call slow airplanes
>
> This is a good rainy day discussion.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
> ---
Well next week I'll be fitting the strongest pusher on the market to my plane
(powerfin F model) in an effort to debug (hopefully fix) my harmonics problem
with non-IVO props. So I'm expecting the "up" to be very good, tho I'm guessing
(and expecting) it won't do as well in the "forward" department (if it runs
smooth, I won't care).
But yes the WD is a compromise. It has the widest speed range you can get in a
fix pitch so sure it has less thrust at very low speed regimes. But it really
works well overall performance-wise.
When operated right, the geared continental is a fine engine that pulls the 170
and 175 around real well. Back in TX, one of the locals had a 175 with that
motor in it. It was lugged a lot like most of them and had to be given a top
somewhere midway to TBO. But after that, once she learnt how to run it (spin it
up to the 3200 rpm range), it gave her no trouble and the performance of the
plane was fine. But you're right it got a bad rap because of poor training in
its use.
I appreciate the Jab's simplicity with the direct drive for sure, but with a
redrive it'd compete pretty well with the 912 series as far as performance on a
wider array of planes, IMO. The 3300 would just be a monster........
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242140#242140
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Denny, they claim 85 for the 2200 @3300rpm I believe,but the 3300 is still 20hp
per cyl.Mine only shows 3100on the tack on takeoff,so who knows what it's really
making.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
Sent: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
Its my understanding that the new Jabs have 10 to 15 more hp than John Ws
early model, not 5 more.
So maybe its not just the props that make a differance.
?
Dennis Rowe
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Gary,
I have heard it said that the early 2200 only produced around 70-75hp,
but the new ones are a strong 85hp.
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: zeprep251@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
Denny, they claim 85 for the 2200 @3300rpm I believe,but the 3300 is
still 20hp per cyl.Mine only shows 3100on the tack on takeoff,so who
knows what it's really making.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII
Its my understanding that the new Jabs have 10 to 15 more hp than John
Ws early model, not 5 more.
So maybe its not just the props that make a differance.
Dennis Rowe
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Can't afford a new spring wardrobe? Go shopping in your closet
instead!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/30/09 06:01:00
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
Hauck's right; static test doesn't mean much.
Friend of mine w/ FS II, 503 w/ B box, 2.58:1 & 66" wood Tennessee prop
out-pulled me by 20 lbs. Mine is FS II w/ C box 3.47:1 & WD 3 blade taper
tip 68". My plane at gross outweighs his by 70 lbs, yet I outclimb & outrun
him. Better fuel mileage, too.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/30/2009 6:42:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
The first bit of info came from Steve Bennet at Great Plains Aircraft. He
> did a apples to apples comparison test as close as he could with Warp
> Drive, PowerFin, and IVO props. The IVO gave the least thrust, then Warp
> Drive, then PowerFin giving the most.
>
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
HShack(at)aol.com wrote:
> Well, If you expect anything to go thru the Powerfin & still fly home-good luck
[not saying anything about performance].
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS II
>
The powerfins exploding when something goes through them is a little bit of an
urban legend, tell the truth. Far more of them have eaten their share of rocks,
parts, etc. and stayed together just fine than have blown up.
My powerfin F 2 blade on my PPC ate a screw out of the fan shroud on the 503 at
full power and I didn't know anything had happened until the next preflight.
Saw a white ding in the leading edge and the missing screw in the shroud. It ate
some rocks here and there too, I just epoxied over the dings and kept on flying
it.
His newer blades are even a little heftier and also weigh a bit more. I still have
my spare 68" and its easy to see the blades are pretty stout despite their
light weight.
This is strictly a fly more/worry less type situation as well, as the PF is a fine
prop quality-wise. It's also the strongest pusher on the market by a little
bit, tho I think the WD far and away has the widest speed range....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242237#242237
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Powered MKIII |
HShack(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hauck's right; static test doesn't mean much.
>
> Friend of mine w/ FS II, 503 w/ B box, 2.58:1 & 66" wood Tennessee prop out-pulled
me by 20 lbs. Mine is FS II w/ C box 3.47:1 & WD 3 blade taper tip 68".
My plane at gross outweighs his by 70 lbs, yet I outclimb & outrun him.
Better fuel mileage, too.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS II
>
Agreed, the static thrust isn't too good of a measurement of how the prop will
perform with some air going through the prop disk, on the plane etc.
I.e my WD 68" I can hold back with the brakes in a static runup, but I couldn't
hold back the IVO 66" at full power at all. It would scoot down the ramp even
holding the brakes hard as I could.
But the WD outclimbes the IVO by somewhere around 100fpm, where it's fully unstalled.
The speed range and top speed of the WD continues to shock and amaze me, giving
almost 100mph at about 5100 rpm. This required full throttle with the IVO at
about 5300 to go that fast.
BTW, the harmonics do almost go away at steady state 5070-5100 rpm cruise right
as I approach 100mph too....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley |
A friend is taking his challenger and his girlfriend with him.
In a message dated 4/27/2009 7:39:26 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
zeprep251@aol.com writes:
John,
The wife wants to know if she will be the only girl there?I suggested she
bake a batch of her toll house cookies,to share and that would pretty much
guarantee her plenty of company.She said that's not what she meant! But I
will keep working on the cookie angle just in case.Hope to see you all about
the 14th .
G Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200----Original Message-----From: John Hauck
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