Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Re: Advice on headsets (Ralph B)
2. 08:16 AM - Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question (dalewhelan)
3. 08:44 AM - Re: If you care to follow the MV trip (JetPilot)
4. 09:06 AM - Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question (JetPilot)
5. 09:09 AM - Re: Advice on headsets (Watkinsdw)
6. 09:11 AM - Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question (lucien)
7. 09:14 AM - Re: Monument Valley (dalewhelan)
8. 09:26 AM - Re: Advice on headsets (lucien)
9. 12:09 PM - Re: Advice on headsets (b young)
10. 12:45 PM - Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question (lucien)
11. 12:56 PM - Re: Advice on headsets (Watkinsdw)
12. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Advice on headsets (John Hauck)
13. 02:38 PM - Re: If you care to follow the MV trip (John Bickham)
14. 03:16 PM - Re: Advice on headsets (lucien)
15. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: If you care to follow the MV trip (John Hauck)
16. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: If you care to follow the MV trip (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
17. 06:05 PM - Re: Advice on headsets (Watkinsdw)
18. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: Advice on headsets (John Hauck)
19. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: Advice on headsets (Gary)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
Many headsets have a mike gain control potentiometer on the mike. To get at it,
all you have to do is take off the foam tip and remove a tiny plastic black cover.
Underneath that cover is the adjustment for mike gain. Usually turning the
gain clockwise means more mike gain. I've played with mine and found that turning
the gain down, made for less noise. It's an experimentation process.
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
22 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
1 year flying it
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
I am not familiar with the 912. I use to teach motorcycle electric systems.
I get the feeling you were describing a permanent magnet charging system. It really
makes little difference anyway.
You used good tests but there are ways for the stator to still be bad, although
I suspect it is fine.
The easiest most conclusive way I know to test it is to use an automotive headlight.
Connect High beam to one stator lead and low to another, don't use ground.
If th bulb lights bright, you are good. Resist the temptation to rev the motor
high and blow the bulb.
As for meter tests and other tools. You can perform an insulation test to make
sure the stator is not shorted to ground by testing resistance from ant lead to
ground. The reading should be infinity. They can still be bad in this may if
they arch to ground during operation, a megger could be used to see this. It
is likley that it would have failed the voltage output test if this was the case.
The voltage test itself can be brought into question due to the fact that it is
a no load test. Have you ever had a battery that mould not start a car and then
tested its voltage with everything turned off and wondered why a battery with
good voltage won't start your car?
Let's just imagine a pair of 9 volt batteries in series, we now have 18 volts,
will that start your car? Do you think we will read 18 volts when you turn on
the cars electrics?
A stator can behave it the same way, it may pass an unloaded test when it is bad,
it would fail the loaded test. The bulb provides a good load. I hope this helps
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
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| Subject: | Re: If you care to follow the MV trip |
Thats awesome John, maybe someone on the trip will have a laptop so you guys can
post photos. Don't forget, you can never take to many pictures ! How long
have you been flying your MK III C, did you build it, and how many hours on
it now ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
Lucien,
>From what I understand of the system, there is not a problem with running no
load on the stator / magnet system . I would replace the bad part and head on
out to monument valley !
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I didn't think about the squelch issue; I usually
keep it at a level that I set on the ground, at idle rpms, where speaking
just breaks the squelch. I'll try adjusting it under flight conditions. If the
engine noise is breaking the squelch, that could solve my problem. It will
also confirm I'm an idiot!
I'm wondering about whether ANR headsets address certain frequency ranges better
than others. It makes sense that the standard general aviation headset may be
set up for lycomings and continentals.
Does anyone know if the Rotax frequency range is similar, and if not, is there
an ANR headset that targets these frequencies?
I'm very interested in the DRE's that John H. mentioned, and the Telex headsets
that advertise 50db noise reduction sound tempting. Of course the DRE's are a
good bit cheaper...
Any other ideas?
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
dalewhelan wrote:
> I am not familiar with the 912. I use to teach motorcycle electric systems.
> I get the feeling you were describing a permanent magnet charging system. It
really makes little difference anyway.
> You used good tests but there are ways for the stator to still be bad, although
I suspect it is fine.
> The easiest most conclusive way I know to test it is to use an automotive headlight.
Connect High beam to one stator lead and low to another, don't use ground.
If th bulb lights bright, you are good. Resist the temptation to rev the
motor high and blow the bulb.
> As for meter tests and other tools. You can perform an insulation test to make
sure the stator is not shorted to ground by testing resistance from ant lead
to ground. The reading should be infinity. They can still be bad in this may
if they arch to ground during operation, a megger could be used to see this. It
is likley that it would have failed the voltage output test if this was the
case.
> The voltage test itself can be brought into question due to the fact that it
is a no load test. Have you ever had a battery that mould not start a car and
then tested its voltage with everything turned off and wondered why a battery
with good voltage won't start your car?
> Let's just imagine a pair of 9 volt batteries in series, we now have 18 volts,
will that start your car? Do you think we will read 18 volts when you turn on
the cars electrics?
> A stator can behave it the same way, it may pass an unloaded test when it is
bad, it would fail the loaded test. The bulb provides a good load. I hope this
helps
Yeah I'll try the light bulb today just to make sure. The voltage test was just
the meter put across the generator leads so indeed there was no load, tho the
voltages looked right to me (15 to 25 at frequencies of 150 to 250 on up, up
to about 4500 rpm)...... But you're quite right it'd be a good idea to test it
with an actual load on it.
I checked the resistances of each lead to ground and got infinity as expected.
The coil reads close to a dead short, about .1 ohms, which is in the expected
range specified in the heavy maintenance manual.
So I think I'm ok..... I hope ;) That stator is expensive and replacing it would
be pulling the motor off the plane and driving it to Ronnie Smith's place in
the pickup..... not something I'd want to do for fun....
Thanks for the info!
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley |
I have a friend coming with me, he has some type of tricycle gear Firestar.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
Watkinsdw wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the Rotax frequency range is similar, and if not, is there
an ANR headset that targets these frequencies?
>
>
No and yes! With a 3 blade prop, the 912 makes a significantly higher frequency
noise than the typical direct drive 2-blade situations you find in the connie/lyc
equipped planes.
This is a general problem with using headsets designed for general aviation use
in our 912/3-blade prop equipped planes as they're intended to target those lower
frequencies. In the typical cessna they work great, but you climb into one
our planes with them and you're exhausted and ears ringing at the end of the
flight.
In researching it, the telex 50-D ANR is the only one I could find that specifically
targets higher frequency noise in addition to the lower frequencies. If
you look at the graph on telex's website you'll see how the ANR goes will up above
the typical 100 hz falloff of the others on the market.
That was specifically why I bought it over the others - they are designed for GA
use and don't provide good ANR at the noise frequencies we encounter.
I can vouch for how well it attenuates a much wider range of noise.....
Like I said, expensive but well worth it to protect your hearing.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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| Subject: | Advice on headsets |
Any have a recommendation for headsets designed for this high-noise
environment?
I look forward to a spirited discussion on this issue...
Thanks,
Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dave
I bought Telex Echelon ANR 150 headsets... and out of the box the mike
levels were so loud that the intercom had a problem handling the signals,,,
I called the factory and they told me to adjust the mike gain down, since
then I have been quite happy, I am using the Sigtronics spo22n intercom
powered off the aircraft power.
Boyd Young
MkIIIC
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
JetPilot wrote:
> Lucien,
>
> From what I understand of the system, there is not a problem with running no
load on the stator / magnet system . I would replace the bad part and head
on out to monument valley !
>
> Mike
Well tested stator on my lunch break with the light bulb test. Nearly burnt out
my spare 50W landing light even at idle..... so the stator is fine which is a
big sigh of relief.......
I'll have the new R/R tomorrow if lockwood had it in stock today....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
Thanks for the info on the Telex! Is it really the only digital unit on the market?
I have an Ivo 2-blade prop. I wonder if it lives in the same high frequency range
as the 3-blade you're describing.
We have a 912 ULS spinning it.
Right now, we're leaning toward the unit that John H. recommended, mostly because
of the price. I may get a Telex too, if I can get Aircraft Spruce or another
vendor to authorize a return after we compare the results side-by-side.
By the way, I talked to my partner, Jeff and he said he did try adjusting the squelch
in flight...I was too busy gazing around in wonder, and dodging Cessnas
to notice.
Thanks again for all the great suggestions, you guys.
Dave
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
> Right now, we're leaning toward the unit that John H. recommended, mostly
because of the price.
> Dave
Dave:
I bought the first DRE-6000 several years ago. Recently bought the second
set.
Several reasons I fly with them:
1-They work well for me.
2-When you need something, you can call DRE at Pahrump, NV, and talk to the
folks that run the company. It is a small company that wants to make sure
their customers are satisfied.
I was serious enough about being comfortable when I fly, I spent big bucks
for a DC X11, their top of the line, for around 8 hundred dollars.
Beautiful lightweight composite headset that worked great in my living room
and kitchen, but could not produce in the cockpit of a mkIII. Had to send
them back to Aircraft Spruce.
Discovered Aircraft Spruce was carrying the DRE brand again and ordered my
second set.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: If you care to follow the MV trip |
Hey Mike,
I'll try to answer your questions:
> maybe someone on the trip will have a laptop so you guys can post photos.
The photos you see are straight from the cell phone while out and about. That
is the plan to post almost real time. Picture quality isn't that great but OK.
Will down load higher quality camera photos if I get a chance. I'm not packing
a laptop.
> How long have you been flying your MK III C, did you build it, and how many hours
on it now ?
>
Got airworthiness cert May, 2001. I built it with a lot help from some the original
listers. I was on my own building it and couldn't have done it without
the support of this list. I have sorta re-built after bending it up on the way
to MV 2004. Poor pilot decision making, complicated by some radiant fog. Butt
crack of dawn morning starts aren't always a good idea with a lot of moisture
coming off the Gulf. Ended up with a much better and more capable aircraft
the second time. I like the second edition a lot better. I think I knocked into
trim. Flies faster and the new landing gear are too good sometimes. Only
have 550 hours on it.
I've shared the story on the list back when it happened. This trip is a huge
hurdle for me. If I am successful, I will tell you the whole story when I get
back if you'd like. If I'm not successful, you don't need to hear from a real
dummy. I'll just say this, don't think it couldn't happen to you. That is
the trap.
Do not archive.
--------
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA
Landing a plane and being married - a few smooth moments mixed with a lot of rough
ones.
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
Watkinsdw wrote:
> Thanks for the info on the Telex! Is it really the only digital unit on the market?
>
> I have an Ivo 2-blade prop. I wonder if it lives in the same high frequency range
as the 3-blade you're describing.
> We have a 912 ULS spinning it.
>
>
Not sure if it's the only digital sampling one on the market or not, but it's probably
the best one if there are others.
It works equally well at nulling out the low frequencies as well, so it should
be a pleasant surprise either way.
In a friend's RV-6A, it all but eliminates the low thrumming of the prop making
for very comfortable flying.
But it also does a good job with the scream of our 912's too.
One thing it doesn't do is filter out abrupt changes in sound or odd sounds like
the mild prop harmonic noise I get with my WD - this is by design so you can't
miss or ignore something abnormal..... This is a really good feature....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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| Subject: | Re: If you care to follow the MV trip |
Butt crack of dawn morning starts aren't always a good idea with a lot of
moisture coming off the Gulf.
>
> John Bickham
John B:
Is the coffee ready before or after the "butt crack of dawn"?
The boy from LA sure has a way with words.
One week and counting.
Also doing a little weather dance to insure I can get out of Alabama and
into Texas Tuesday week.
Mike Marker says we are having pizza Wednesday night, but we have to get to
Los Lunas, NM, in order to get it.
Thursday night we can eat a Navajo Taco at Goulding's Restaurant.
Weather is lousy in Alabama, about like it was when I got up the second
morning in Sherman, TX, last year. Lots of thunder storms.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: If you care to follow the MV trip |
John H& B
You all have a great time at Monument Valley.
Wonderful blue bird afternoon in Michigan. Another day or two to get a
flyable runway.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: If you care to follow the MV trip
>
>
> Butt crack of dawn morning starts aren't always a good idea with a lot of
> moisture coming off the Gulf.
>>
>> John Bickham
>
>
> John B:
>
> Is the coffee ready before or after the "butt crack of dawn"?
>
> The boy from LA sure has a way with words.
>
> One week and counting.
>
> Also doing a little weather dance to insure I can get out of Alabama and
> into Texas Tuesday week.
>
> Mike Marker says we are having pizza Wednesday night, but we have to get
> to Los Lunas, NM, in order to get it.
>
> Thursday night we can eat a Navajo Taco at Goulding's Restaurant.
>
> Weather is lousy in Alabama, about like it was when I got up the second
> morning in Sherman, TX, last year. Lots of thunder storms.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
Thanks, John, thanks, Lucien (is that Lucy-in the sky...?)
Jeff is ordering a pair of DRE's this week. If they outperform my expensive Bose
headset, I'm buying a pair, too.
You guys have been very helpful.
By the way, I've been reading the prop talk, and was especially impressed by your
performance numbers on the WD you fly, John. You know our plane and our 2 blade
IVO. When we are ready to spend some more money.. what WD do you recommend
for Steven's plane?
Down the road, we're also thinking about floats, but that's down the road, or canal,
a bit..
Dave
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
> By the way, I've been reading the prop talk, and was especially impressed
by your performance numbers on the WD you fly, John. You know our plane and
our 2 blade IVO. When we are ready to spend some more money.. what WD do you
recommend for Steven's plane?
>
> Dave
I have had good luck with 70, 71, and 72" Warp Drive, 3 blade, fast taper,
nickle steel leading edge.
If pitched to turn 5,500 rpm wide open throttle, straight and level flight,
you will get a good all around performing, reliable prop.
John W ran a 68" 3 blade WD on his Kolbra. Out climbed and out ran me with
his 912ULS. Often wondered is I could do better if I went smaller, but
never got around to testing shorter blades. I think I am about maxed out
with the 71" blades I am running now. MKIII's hit an invisible wall about
85 mph. More HP to penetrate that wall is wasted.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Advice on headsets |
I shopped for headsets at Oshkosh a few years ago, willing to pay virtually
any price for something more effective than the David Clark passive headsets
that I used for years in type certified aircraft. I wanted something I
could use for both my Kolb Mark IIIc (Rotax 582) and also for open canopy
wind noise in another aircraft I own. I looked at Bose and the top-of-the
line David Clark, Telex, and numerous others. I explained my needs,
stressing wind noise in the one aircraft and 2 cycle high RPM noise in the
Kolb. Both Bose and David Clark told me I would be disappointed in their
products for what I needed. I talked with virtually every headset exhibitor
at the show. One that impressed me was the Clarity Aloft, ear bud type. I
looked at their frequency attenuation graphs and the attenuation up over 40
db - higher than even the ANR type headsets (which seem to offer only about
28 db). The attenuation over much of the frequency spectrum with the
Clarity Aloft is relatively flat. I also liked the idea of virtually no
weight on my head (a few ounces) and fact I could wear any type hat I
wanted. Since they are passive, they also require no batteries. They
proved to be great, both in the Kolb and on long cross countries in my other
plane - no more headset squeeze after hours of flying. They have a music
input (stereo) and the fidelity is phenomenal. I use with an IPod. The
down side - $500 a piece and the foam ear tips must be periodically
replaced. (They can be washed and use extended.) They have numerous
patents on them. The mike is very high quality and the speakers are said to
be equivalent to very high end hearing aids. I have done A-B type
comparison tests in the Kolb with these headsets and ANR headsets of very
high quality- including Lightspeed and David Clark. There is no comparison
- night and day difference. If you want, you can combine with the
traditional style headset (passive or ANR) and wear both, but I have found
no advantage. So I use only the Clarity Aloft by itself. I use with a
Sigtronics intercom modified by Sigtronics for high noise environment. No
more problems communicating with my passenger, even at take-off power
setting in the 582. Worth every penny I paid for them. They are also much
more effective at reducing wind noise than anything else I have tried.
Gary Siegrist
Mark IIIc
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