---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/09/09: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - Re: M3X pictures,numbers (ces308) 2. 05:45 AM - Re: Engine angle on the airframe mounts on a MKIII (b young) 3. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: M3X pictures,numbers (b young) 4. 07:53 AM - Harmonics problem - solved (lucien) 5. 08:31 AM - Re: Harmonics problem - solved (JetPilot) 6. 09:09 AM - Re: Harmonics problem - solved (lucien) 7. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Harmonics problem - solved (John Hauck) 8. 12:49 PM - Re: Harmonics problem - solved (lucien) 9. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Harmonics problem - solved (John Hauck) 10. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: M3X pictures,numbers (pj.ladd) 11. 03:06 PM - Re: Harmonics problem - solved (lucien) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: M3X pictures,numbers From: "ces308" The prop I am running is a Sensenich W58DJL44 wood prop,and all speed numbers are IAS. I guess I am just used to adding 10-15* of flap on the Skyhawk to get off quicker....and it does work for the m3 too,but next time I will try no flaps and give you those numbers.I have never flown one of these before,so I really have nothing but my 172 to compare it to...I guess if I had to compare it to something ,it would be a Super Cub PA-18-150. chris ambrose m3x/jab Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243229#243229 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:53 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine angle on the airframe mounts on a MKIII In reference to the engine mounts on the airframe of a MKIIIC, what angle does your engine sit at. Does the engine sit flat (parallel) on the mounts? Are there any spacers or engine mount holes that make the front of the engine sit higher or lower on the airframe mount. I Know the effect that engine angle has on yaw trim, I just wanted to see where other people landed on the engine mount. Jason MKIIIC BMW engine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Parallel on the mounts for me. Boyd Young MKIIIC Utah ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:09 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: M3X pictures,numbers The prop I am running is a Sensenich W58DJL44 wood prop,and all speed numbers are IAS. I guess I am just used to adding 10-15* of flap on the Skyhawk to get off quicker....and it does work for the m3 too,but next time I will try no flaps and give you those numbers.I have never flown one of these before,so I really have nothing but my 172 to compare it to...I guess if I had to compare it to something ,it would be a Super Cub PA-18-150. chris ambrose m3x/jab >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From my training,, lowering the flaps increases lift as well as drag... adding up to 10 to 15 deg of flaps increases lift far more than the drag. After 20 deg the drag is increased at a far greater rate than the lift. That said, my testing was at 0, 20, & 40 deg of flaps on my mkIIIC my take off roll for 0 and 40 deg was about the same... while 20 deg of flaps reduced my takeoff roll by around 25%. Boyd Young MKIIIC Utah ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:06 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Harmonics problem - solved From: "lucien" Just FYI for anyone who might be interested in the prop harmonics story, Solved my harmonics problem completely by going to a Powerfin F model 3-blade (70"). Took it around the patch last night and it was like scratching an itch - nice smooooth wobble-free power. Harmonics gone. As far as the numbers, performance was exactly what I was expecting as I've flown a bunch of powerfins over the years - better climb, narrower speed range, very happy engine/gearbox. Climb slightly better than the WD, 10mph now missing off the top end (90mph indicated at 5100 rather than 100, but it's smooth now so I don't care. I can do anything I want at 90mph). I'm going to fly a little more before I make the logbook entry. After that I'm probably going to put my WD up for sale as it's a perfectly good prop and would be perfection on a 912 equipped Kolb. Ah, sweet relief...... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243264#243264 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Harmonics problem - solved From: "JetPilot" Very good information Lucien ! I'm sure there will be many people interested in your report and solution to this problem. I fly a Powerfin on a Trike, they are very nice props. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243271#243271 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Harmonics problem - solved From: "lucien" JetPilot wrote: > Very good information Lucien ! I'm sure there will be many people interested in your report and solution to this problem. I fly a Powerfin on a Trike, they are very nice props. > > Mike Yeah, shame it had to be such a brute force fix tho (i.e. brute force on my wallet). But I've always thought the powerfin was a little underrated and I'm not really sure why. I've flown a couple powerfins, my last was my 66" F 2-blade I ran on my trike and then later my powered parachute. I just love them. On the trike, it gave me 1800fpm sustained with the 503/2.58 B box. Same combo on my PPC gave the highest climb rate of the other props I tried (including another PF C model). Stuart was surprised by that when we were talking about it over the phone, because the C model is his main PPC prop and he didn't expect the F to outperform it. The F model does have enormous amounts of blade area so it tends to have a narrow speed range (which I can definitely confirm with a near 10mph drop in top end over the WD). But it's the strongest pusher/climber on the market (which I also reconfirmed last night). Stuart did change the construction of the blades slightly. The newer ones weigh a little more and I suspect that was for strengthening. It's still significantly lighter than my WD confirmed by a heft test, and far lighter than the IVO medium. I'll see if Daryl will take my WD back, tho I won't object if he doesn't want to take back a perfectly good prop. If not, I'll probably put it up for sale once I'm done confirming everything's fine with the PF. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243274#243274 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:08 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Harmonics problem - solved > Very good information Lucien ! I'm sure there will be many people interested in your report and solution to this problem. I fly a Powerfin on a Trike, they are very nice props. > > Mike Glad Lucien found his problem. Did he inform the Titan List? Ted Cowan must still be waiting on his new blades. I just got in from flying my 71" Warp Drive. Same as always, since 1993. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Harmonics problem - solved From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > > Glad Lucien found his problem. > > Did he inform the Titan List? > > Ted Cowan must still be waiting on his new blades. > > I just got in from flying my 71" Warp Drive. Same as always, since 1993. > > john h > mkIII Yeah I know this was mostly not Kolb related, so didn't mean to drag it out, my apologies to the list on that. Hopefully the prop info is of general interest, tho. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243294#243294 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:14 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Harmonics problem - solved > Yeah I know this was mostly not Kolb related, so didn't mean to drag it out, my apologies to the list on that. > > Hopefully the prop info is of general interest, tho. > > LS Just a wild guess, but I think your's and Tom Cowan's problems with the Warp Drive Prop are isolated to your individual airplanes. I have flown Sling Shots with 912ULS and 3 blade WD which had no problem. I know of several Titans that fly with 912ULS and Warp Drives with no problems. Air flow can make a prop do some funny things, in the case of Ronny Collins Sling Shot/582/Warp Drive that suffered harmonic problems that sounded and acted just like Ted Cowan's. Not much fun when your airplane does not perform like you want it to, no matter what the problem. My ANR power supply that converts 12VDC to 9VDC filtered power quit working. Discovered this on my flight yesterday. This afternoon I pulled the power supply and wiring out of the mkIII. Soon as I got it out I discovered a cold solder joint had pulled out of the circuit board. Bugged hell out of me until I got it fixed. It happened just prior to spending 3 or more weeks living out of and flying the mkIII. That is when most stuff breaks, just prior to time to go on a long trip. jpohn h mkIII ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:33 PM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: M3X pictures,numbers Flaps do reduce stall, but they add more drag than anything, so you will be higher more quickly without flaps on > takeoff. >> Where did you get that from?. Try looking out of the window on takeoff next time you are on a trip.Well, well, well Just look. They have the flaps down. I wonder why they do that? Pat ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:53 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Harmonics problem - solved From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > Just a wild guess, but I think your's and Tom Cowan's problems with the Warp > Drive Prop are isolated to your individual airplanes. > > I have flown Sling Shots with 912ULS and 3 blade WD which had no problem. I > know of several Titans that fly with 912ULS and Warp Drives with no > problems. > I'd say that jives with my findings as well. I've talked to 2 other owners of my model plane, both use the WD 3-blade. One has the exact same problem I do, the other has no problems. Go figure. My FSII had a 68" WD on it, totally smooth operation with excellent performance, quiet, etc. And then there's all those bajillions of other planes out there that run the WD with problems. Can't see how it's anything other than an interaction twixt the plane and prop peculiar to this model plane. There's only 6 or 7 of the big titan flying in the world at this point, and the changes to the cabin height and width are signficant. doesn't surprise me that with a newer design there could be a new oddity with what's otherwise one of the best motor/prop combos available that we just hadn't seen yet. > > Air flow can make a prop do some funny things, in the case of Ronny Collins > Sling Shot/582/Warp Drive that suffered harmonic problems that sounded and > acted just like Ted Cowan's. > > Not much fun when your airplane does not perform like you want it to, no > matter what the problem. > Well in my case, it's not a defective prop I know that for sure. That was the annoying part, if something was just broke all I had to do was fix it. Like I said, guess that's why these suckers have that big ol experimental pasted on the side....... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243310#243310 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.